Support NeoGAF

[DrGAKMAN]

They have 3 choices, and it should be obvious that the first two aren't it:

#1- Open up SD cards (allow Channels to be executable dirrectly from SD cards)- if this were going to happen it would've by now, but probably due to piracy AND reworking the Wii's entire menu UI (something they won't do as they wanted the Channels system to stay simple) it won't.

#2- Release a USB HDD or Flash Thumbdrive- this would only make piracy easier in the end even if it delayed it, if they're not willing to "open up" SD what makes you think they'd do so for USB, Nintendo has said they wish to avoid solving this problem with hardware and I believe that if they were to do it this way they would've introduced (like their other peripherals) it with the perfect software to sell it: Animal Crossing...but instead they didn't, so therefore, they won't.

#3- Something else- this option is sort of broad, but I would think some kind of "SD Channel" to allow for faster/easier transfers of Channels from SD to internal memory would be ideal...I explained before a "wipeboard" method in where said Channel would have a partitioned amount of internal memory set aside to swap Channels stored on SD to it...this certainly wouldn't stop piracy of course ('cos it's already there), but it also wouldn't make it easier.

To quote myself from an earlier thread about this same discussion...

-Current Fridge Method: Wii Main Channels Menu > Wii Button > Data Management > Channels > SD Tab > Select Channel To Copy Over > Decrypt & Copy > Back Out To Wii Main Menu > Software Reset > Start Channel (to note: with this method you may often have to back-up/encrypt/copy to SD (which takes longer than decrypting) before you can delete to make room to transfer Channels from SD)

-New Whipeboard Method: Wii Main Channels Menu > SD Channel > Select Channel To Copy Over > Decrypt & Copy > Back Out To Wii Main Menu > Software Reset > Start Channel

 

[TrueReligion]

So does that mean we'll get Earthbound?

 

[Bizzyb]

I don't know if any Nintendo people actually look at this board much, but I'll say it here just in case.

The day I ran out of space on my Wii internal memory (about Christmas time, when I got a present from my Secret Santa on GAF) is the day I stopped buying VC stuff frivolously. It was fun while it was easy to do---carefree downloads, play whenever I want by just loading a channel. But when that was no longer possible, I just stopped spending. In other words, you're losing cash by not addressing the issue.

Maybe some other people think like me, who knows.

I'm sure this is the major consensus throughout the entire community that actually uses (or rather, used) VC and Wii shop


Wii Ware and Channels only makes things worst. I want to play Lost Winds and many upcoming titles but I'll be damned if I'm going to go through the unnecessary motions of deleting and re-downloading stuff.

For some reason, Nintendo is notoriously known for being severely shortsighted when it comes to storage capacity issues

Carts vs Discs
Mini DVD vs regular DVD
releasing 3 different sized Mem cards due to gamers needing more space
and now, a measly 512 MB of internal flash Memory

 

[Amir0x]

As I said in another thread, it's like Nintendo is totally trying to make nice with me. They've basically come out and admit to all the problems I've personally had with the Wii platform, and have in some way motioned that they intend to fix them. Wii Motion Plus, Storage Solution, PIKMIN 3, admitting that their conference was a bit bad. I mean! We just need Mother 3 at this point.

 

[VistraNorrez]

Amir0x, if you really think they're doing this to make nice with you, then you should know they are just setting you up for disappointment. They love to crush you, personally.

 

[Amir0x]

Amir0x, if you really think they're doing this to make nice with you, then you should know they are just setting you up for disappointment. They love to crush you, personally.

why do you have to rain on my parade

 

[Frencherman]

Till then:

Is this Gabe Newell from Valve???

 

[Nintaiyo]

Okay, Nintendo. Here's what I want:

A HDD.
Shaped like the Wii's stand.
I buy it.
Take the old stand, throw it away.
Put the Wii on the HDD stand.
Looks the same, takes up the same amount of space.
But now I download more shit.

Awesome, huh?

That would be awesome. But there's always those schmups that like to keep their Wiis horizontal.

 

[acidviper]

That's a pure PR answer. No answer but we are working on it. I could have got the same cookie cutter answer from an outsourced customer service agent.

 

[Mejilan]

I'm happy that they're still talking about the problem, but I'd be even happier if they made less with the talking, and made more with the actual doing.

 

[Vinci]

I'm happy that they're still talking about the problem, but I'd be even happier if they made less with the talking, and made more with the actual doing.

Perhaps they are doing. Perhaps the only reason why they're talking about it is that people keep asking them about it. Which is good, 'cause then they get the sense that, "Yeah, maybe there's an issue here - we keep hearing about it,' thus leading them (we hope) to actually doing something.

One begets the other, is what I'm saying.
At least it should.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Any addon they bring up now will probably be patchwork when it comes to security. Which means it will be broken quicker than shit. The same thing will happen with MS and their "Installing to HDD" feature.

Storage expansion should have been thought up before the Wii even came out. Security needs to be at a hardware level.

 

[Kilrogg]

As I said in another thread, it's like Nintendo is totally trying to make nice with me. They've basically come out and admit to all the problems I've personally had with the Wii platform, and have in some way motioned that they intend to fix them. Wii Motion Plus, Storage Solution, PIKMIN 3, admitting that their conference was a bit bad. I mean! We just need Mother 3 at this point.

They even acknowledged the lack of Earthbound on the VC and hinted at a coming surprise (related to the Mother series?)! I know you're half-joking, but don't set yourself for disappointment like that .

Also, what's with the "Revision 2.0" tag?

 

[Threi]

Amir0x, if you really think they're doing this to make nice with you, then you should know they are just setting you up for disappointment. They love to crush you, personally.

It's in the freaking Wii Manual.

 

[Deku]

obviously not urgent enough to reveal this at E3.

Instead we get nothing.

 

[Amir0x]

They even acknowledged the lack of Earthbound on the VC and hinted at a coming surprise (related to the Mother series?)! I know you're half-joking, but don't set yourself for disappointment like that .

I am just pretty surprised at the rapid fire way they seem to be acknowledging stated problems I've had with the platform (and then going on to take steps to fix them). I mean, I have come to terms Wii won't ever be HD and with comparable power to PS360PC, but the more these things are fixed the happier I am with my purchase.

Also, what's with the "Revision 2.0" tag?

No comment!

It's in the freaking Wii Manual.

PIKMIN PARTIEZ confirmed?

 

[beef3483]

I will believe it when i see it

If you don't believe it, you're an idiot. This is hitting Nintendos wallet so they have every motivation to figure it out. Nintendos a business and every decision they make is based upon how much money they can make so try to keep your cynicism in check with reality.

 

[Kilrogg]

I am just pretty surprised at the rapid fire way they seem to be acknowledging stated problems I've had with the platform (and then going on to take steps to fix them). I mean, I have come to terms Wii won't ever be HD and with comparable power to PS360PC, but the more these things are fixed the happier I am with my purchase.

I know what you mean, even though I am pretty happy with my Wii, even more so knowing that some welcome additions are on their way (mainly the MotionPlus thingie). My three gripes would be the slowness of the channels, the lack of cool releases on a regular basis on the VC, and third-party support. I can live with the first two for now because there's Mega Man 9 coming soon (pretty much my personal killer app for this gen so far) and I'm patient enough with online, but the third gripe can't be helped by anyone but third parties themselves. They're slowly getting to developing good games for the system though.

Unlike you, I couldn't care less about the lack of hard drive for now. I don't mind re-downloading games, and I still have enough space left on my system anyway. Guess I'm one of the only gamers on GAF who're not angry when they read Nintendo saying "why keeping all your games on the console anyway? Just keep the ones you're currently playing!" Makes sense to me. But it sucks for those who need more storage space, so I feel for you.

 

[RetroMG]

Good on Nintendo for trying to fix their flubs, but they've already said they've announced everything they plan to put out this year. And from what I've seen, I'm glad I got a 360, cause it looks like it's going to be a long year for the Wii.

 

[Yagharek]

I don't know if any Nintendo people actually look at this board much, but I'll say it here just in case.

The day I ran out of space on my Wii internal memory (about Christmas time, when I got a present from my Secret Santa on GAF) is the day I stopped buying VC stuff frivolously. It was fun while it was easy to do---carefree downloads, play whenever I want by just loading a channel. But when that was no longer possible, I just stopped spending. In other words, you're losing cash by not addressing the issue.

Maybe some other people think like me, who knows.

+1

 

[Amir0x]

everyone has made the near endless arguments about why a storage solution is essential and why moving out of such prehistoric thinking is for the good of each gamer

so i won't bore the thread with them here. I'll just buy as best I can on other platforms until we get the storage solution. And it appears we will be getting it in the somewhat near future

 

[Cheerilee]

Multiplayer: Are you hearing this complaint mostly from — [snip] — more from hardcore gamers than from your expanded blue ocean audience?

Fils-Aime: [snip] this is becoming much more of a mainstream problem, which is why we have a sense of urgency to solve it.

Refined.

They might fix it (if they can figure out how) when it gets to the point where it's readily apparent to even the casuals (which it will).

 

[Deku]

Refined.

They might fix it (if they can figure out how) when it gets to the point where it's readily apparent to even the casuals (which it will).

They already know how. There's probably some technical issues related to piracy if they are to unlock the SD slot as an extension of the main memory, but the Wii does have USB ports for an external HD. And the SD issue is mostly software.

 

[Kilrogg]

everyone has made the near endless arguments about why a storage solution is essential and why moving out of such prehistoric thinking is for the good of each gamer

so i won't bore the thread with them here. I'll just buy as best I can on other platforms until we get the storage solution. And it appears we will be getting it in the somewhat near future

Now I get it: Revision 2.0 stands for "I'm not going to shit on every thread about issues that blow my mind as I did before", doesn't it?

Seriously though, I wasn't disagreeing with you, it's just that I am nowhere near as pissed as you are about the problem, but that's because I'm suffering from the lack of storage space.

 

[Amir0x]

Now I get it: Revision 2.0 stands for "I'm not going to shit on every thread about issues that blow my mind as I did before", doesn't it?

You may be closer than you think to the answer

 

[Vinci]

obviously not urgent enough to reveal this at E3.

Instead we get nothing.

Honestly: If they'd mentioned one thing other than MotionPlus for the core gamer at E3, it should've been this. Pikmin 3, I'm happy about - but there are lots of folks who couldn't give a shit. Wanna win over the GAF crowd, Nintendo? Have Reggie walk onstage and say, "[Whatever the fuck they're gonna do] - in December. Merry Christmas," and then walk off.

 

[stephentotilo]

Seems strange this hasn't been posted, but I couldn't find it, so here it is:

I agree! What NeoGAF needs is more linking to my blog. Get with it, people! Where else can you find Reggie laughing about the PS3's installed base? And other fun stuff

To the topic at hand, I knew the first answer he gave me wouldn't move people too much, which is why I pushed for clarification about whether he considered this a hardcore gamers' issue or a mainstream one. Notable that he identified it as a broader "problem" in the Americas. Also notable that despite that no solution was announced at E3.

 

[Kilrogg]

You may be closer than you think to the answer

That's what I suspected when I saw one of your posts a few days ago. Something about calming down, I think. I was teasing you .

At any rate, that's nice of you. Good luck!

Aaaand... So much for the OT. I'm going to bed.

 

[sonicmj1]

Honestly: If they'd mentioned one thing other than MotionPlus for the core gamer at E3, it should've been this. Pikmin 3, I'm happy about - but there are lots of folks who couldn't give a shit. Wanna win over the GAF crowd, Nintendo? Have Reggie walk onstage and say, "[Whatever the fuck they're gonna do] - in December. Merry Christmas," and then walk off.

Can't happen. E3 isn't for us, and if they spent 3 minutes on an announcement for the core, it would ruin their conference and the mainstream press would cry.

Any true fan would understand.

 

[Vinci]

Can't happen. E3 isn't for us, and if they spent 3 minutes on an announcement for the core, it would ruin their conference and the mainstream press would cry.

Any true fan would understand.

Oh, I'm very aware of what they were doing at E3. Doesn't mean I think they pulled it off terribly well.

And I think it's getting debatable what exactly the 'core' is.

 

[Fredescu]

This is great news. I haven't even bothered to keep up with Wiiware news because of storage issues. Those saying he's just being a mouthpiece to shut people up must have missed the countless fob offs we've had about this issue in the past. He could have just rehashed the fridge comment, but he didn't.

This and Wii Motion Plus and Iwata apologising, things are looking up.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The one thing I`m hoping for the most is that Nintendo will lift the 43MB limit on Wiiware games once they solve the storage issues. It`s really limiting in comparison to XBLA and PSN!

 

[Vinci]

This is great news. I haven't even bothered to keep up with Wiiware news because of storage issues. Those saying he's just being a mouthpiece to shut people up must have missed the countless fob offs we've had about this issue in the past. He could have just rehashed the fridge comment, but he didn't.

This and Wii Motion Plus and Iwata apologising, things are looking up.

I think Nintendo was honestly surprised at the outcries from core gamers following E3. It seems like they felt their 2007 conference made it clear how they viewed E3 now, and they didn't realize that gamers would take it as an affront or some (ridiculous) indication that Nintendo was never going to make traditional games ever again. I think that's why there's been this level of response.

 

[Deku]

Oh, I'm very aware of what they were doing at E3. Doesn't mean I think they pulled it off terribly well.

And I think it's getting debatable what exactly the 'core' is.

Were you aware or was it a convenient excuse for a weaksauce showing?

I can sort of understand the E3 doesn't matter anymore argument, but the 'its a show for casuals' doesnt hold much water. Because even the casual games they showed suck ass.

Why were they there? Why did they even show up?

It was an embrassing show, that press conference provided negative mindshare for the Wii and gave fanboys and fence sitters reason to shit on the best selling console this side of the PS2.

They didn't act like market leaders, they acted like totally out of their mind jackass Tiger electronics.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I guess my 12 step joke was too subtle.

 

[MysticDragon8907]

Their solution is probably gonna be a firmware update that allows bigger SD cards (like 8 and 16 GB )

 

[Davidion]

Were you aware or was it a convenient excuse for a weaksauce showing?

I can sort of understand the E3 doesn't matter anymore argument, but the 'its a show for casuals' doesnt hold much water. Because even the casual games they showed suck ass.

Why were they there? Why did they even show up?

It was an embrassing show, that press conference provided negative mindshare for the Wii and gave fanboys and fence sitters reason to shit on the best selling console this side of the PS2.

They didn't act like market leaders, they acted like totally out of their mind jackass Tiger electronics.

Bingo.

 

[Vinci]

Were you aware or was it a convenient excuse for a weaksauce showing?

Honestly? Probably a bit of both. The latter (in terms of core games they didn't have to show) likely helped inform the former, though I think it was the primary goal at any rate. But I think they would've thrown us a bone if they'd had anything to show us, at least anything that would be releasing in the West soon (working inside their new 'core games' shown only a couple months away from release reasoning, for good or bad).

I can sort of understand the E3 doesn't matter anymore argument, but the 'its a show for casuals' doesnt hold much water. Because even the casual games they showed suck ass.

Wii Sports Resort looks all right. And I think i t does hold water. Before last year, do you know how many E3 announcements my parents knew about? Zero. Not a one. But inside of a week after E3 2007, they both said, "Heard about Wii Fit. It looks pretty useful." Now, they own Wii Fit. So do I think it represents their best opportunity to get news out to the usually uninformed? Sure. I can see that concept. Whether it works or not? Anecdotally it did. My parents now want what they're calling 'Wii Sports 2.' Can't say how widespread that is though.

It was an embrassing show, that press conference provided negative mindshare for the Wii and gave fanboys and fence sitters reason to shit on the best selling console this side of the PS2.

Yeah, but gamers - we're a fair-weather bunch. Here it is, Nintendo released more core franchises in the first 18 months of this system, easily more internerally developed core games than Sony and Microsoft combined in the same amount of time, and people are pissed 'cause they had nothing to show or chose not to show it. The 'What have you done for me lately?' mentality is rampant in our ranks. You have people who say they're not making core games anymore in one thread, and are meanwhile praising Wario Land Shake in another as if it's the second coming of Jesus. We can change our opinions on a dime.

Say Nintendo has another October event, like they did last year, and they announce several new core games ... What's the response gonna be? "FUCK YES!" "WANT!" "This is what their E3 show should've been! Ninty is back!" Stuff along those lines. In the end, we're easy to frustrate and easy to please, and I think (come next year) nobody will give a shit what E3 2008 was like.

 

[Deku]

I have no doubt they and their 3rd party partners will have a huge TGS presence, but I can't really defend their E3 showing. It was terrible.

They didn't do anything wrong or announce things that will bomb. What they didn't announce was the problem.

 

[Vinci]

I have no doubt they and their 3rd party partners will have a huge TGS presence, but I can't really defend their E3 showing. It was terrible.

They didn't do anything wrong or announce things that will bomb. What they didn't announce was the problem.

And I can see your point of view. Really. I wish E3 had been more geared towards me, but I comprehend the reason why it wasn't.

But beyond giving Wii trolls something to hoot and holler about, I don't see that E3 2008 is going to do a lot to stop the wave of domination or suddenly make all the games Nintendo has released - not just promised, not just screenshoted, or shown CG trailers for, but actually released - mean less. And with domination, in time, comes the highlights - the big games that will appeal to even the most jaded HD gamer. And the Wii will have those. It's inevitable. No system is ever devoid of something good on it, so all those people who troll the Wii? They'll end up having one too, unless they're under some misguided belief that they should 'prove a point,' which will amount to them sidestepping experiences that they'd enjoy just to spit in Nintendo's direction. Which won't affect Nintendo at all, and isn't going to stop next-gen from being massively influenced by what happened this gen.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Can somebody explain to me why external storage or opening up the SD slot is a piracy nightmare?

As far as I'm aware, VC/WiiWare games are tied to your system. Meaning it shouldnt make a difference where the games are running from right?

It's not a piracy nightmare as their security has already been cracked wide open and nothing they do can change that.

However under the current short-sighted security system the wii uses it is not possible and re-engineering the entire system is not a simple task:

http://hackmii.com/2008/04/keys-keys-keys

# SD key (ab01b9d8e1622b08afbad84dbfc2a55d): This is another shared secret — also stored on the Hollywood, but also found plenty of other places, including inside the firmware images. This key is used by the System Menu (1-2) to encrypt anything before writing it out to the SD card, and it’s used by 1-2 to decrypt anything read from the SD card. This is done mainly for the purpose of obfuscation, to keep people from examining savegames. It’s worth noting that all Wii games save their data to the internal NAND — no game supports loading or saving data directly to SD. This frees game writers from the requirement of handling this step themselves; they just write the savegame data, unencrypted and unsigned, to their title-data directory inside the NAND filesystem; the system menu then handles everything else. (The real reason for this is probably that it allowed Nintendo to make a system where they didn’t have to expose the details of this encryption — or any encryption — to their licensed game developers.) This key is also stored in OTP, and in several places in IOS (for no apparent reason). If you’re using Segher’s tools, you may also be interested in the SD IV (216712e6aa1f689f95c5a22324dc6a98) and the MD5 blanker (0e65378199be4517ab06ec22451a5793), both of which are stored inside the 1-2 binary.

 

[Dash Kappei]

That's a pure PR answer. No answer but we are working on it. I could have got the same cookie cutter answer from an outsourced customer service agent.

Not really.
It's a whole different matter now that they're recognizing the storage problem as a mainstream one and not only related to the "hardcore crowd".
They know they're losing more money every day it passes by, without a doubt they've got Wiiware and VC sales as an evidence and they'll act fast, you can bet your ass on it.

 

[Gabyskra]

It's been 24 hrs now, and still nothing.



What, impatient?

 

[Dash Kappei]

Not really.
It's a whole different matter now that they're recognizing the storage problem as a mainstream one and not only related to the "hardcore crowd".
They know they're losing more money every day it passes by, without a doubt they've got Wiiware and VC sales as an evidence and they'll act fast, you can bet your ass on it.

Their solution is probably gonna be a firmware update that allows bigger SD cards (like 8 and 16 GB )

That'll be fine, but I just don't see it happening as far as playing directily from the card goes.
I'd like a storage solution + Wii demos on Nintendo Channel, thank you sir.

It's been 24 hrs now, and still nothing.

Oh my
:lol :lol :lol

 

[Semantic Continuum]

Honestly, I get a "Wii will be region-free" feeling.

 

[Gabyskra]

Honestly, I get a "Wii will be region-free" feeling.

That would be great, but er, why? I don't see the link.

 

[Pellham]

If they're so concerned about piracy and too lazy to fix the SD card mechanism, how about they start manufacturing wiis with 4 or 8 gigs of internal flash memory and offer consumers to send their existing systems in for a memory upgrade.

hell at this point if nintendo were to release a new wii sku that was $50 more but had significantly more flash memory (talking at least 4 gigs), i'd buy it and sell my old wii.

 

[Stinkles]

Why can't we store stuff on SD cards again? It is after all an encryptable, Secure Digital format.

 

[TheGreatDave]

If they're so concerned about piracy and too lazy to fix the SD card mechanism, how about they start manufacturing wiis with 4 or 8 gigs of internal flash memory and offer consumers to send their existing systems in for a memory upgrade.

hell at this point if nintendo were to release a new wii sku that was $50 more but had significantly more flash memory (talking at least 4 gigs), i'd buy it and sell my old wii.

But you can't transfer your existing Virtual Console titles.

This means if Nintendo ever did that I'd hate them FOREVER.

 

[loosus]

Why the hell didn't they at least make it where you could easily take out the flash memory of the Wii and replace it with more (in Nintendo's proprietary format, of course)?

It wouldn't be as good as Sony's solution of using completely standard hard drives, but at least you'd have the option of buying more storage -- even if it had to be from Nintendo only.