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[khaaan]

Allow me to go on a slightly related tangent.

The word "Hijab" does not directly mean the head covering as far as I know. The word originally meant to cover or conceal before it became synonymous with the headscarf. If you are a Muslim woman in that region then those traditional clothing also function as your hijab. A Muslim woman wearing a huge toque in the winter but no headscarf could also effectively have her hijab on too.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

An uninformed audience member does not represent the audience. Be honest with yourself: Is it Naughty Dog's fault that a number of people do not know the difference between a Dupatta and a hijab?

not NDs fault whatsoever, point was someone that writes, former lecturer, editor in chief made that link. which means have to be careful in portraying things.

ND are in an impossible position.

 

[endlessflood]

Am I correct in stating there were no religious garments in the Uncharted reveal, and that instead Chloe was shown wearing a dupatta, a common Indian (secular) garment, in a game set in India? If that's the case, what (if anything) are we saying that Naughty Dog has done wrong here?

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

I think it's a step in the right direction actually, I think there's an element of exposure that Americans need to come to grips with. So while that clip had fighting and such, perhaps there's moments of normal interaction as well.

 

[Memento]

Talk about creating a controversy out of nothing, jesus.

She was just trying to blend in with everyone else, the women there uses that, which makes it perfect, because that way no one can see she is not an actual citizen and serves as a perfect disguise.

 

[Audioboxer]

[please refer to post 50 for actual name of clothing "dupetta" and my reply to it]

watching psx this weekend, the reveal for the uncharted game had me hooked, constantly jumping from going thats lara to wait no thats not her for it to be finally revealed as a game in the uncharted series.

i make this thread to say I think Naughty Dog might not understand how it may have inadvertently confirmed quite harmful stereotypes that has actively isolated members of society like me.

the use of hijab/niqab, the headscarf and face veil, for the purpose for this trailer was to disguise, distract and deceive as she attempted to infiltrate a building that was under the guard of the state. it was precisely used in the way the general populace of europe and its governments suspect muslims of potentially using it for. NDs use of it in its reveal was precisely confirming that its quite reasonable to be suspicious.

its didnt seem intentional, at least i hope it wasnt. just that something that some women choose to wear out of devotion/piety was used as a throwaway disguise in a game for what the authorities in that game would have described as an act of terrorism.

i dont think asking about if i had issues with similar articles of religious clothing being used in games when theyve not really been the subject of intense scrutiny like us muslims have been under and continue to be under. nuns were not forced to be disrobed.

maybe one day gaming will be more conscious of our sensitivities.

I think that is pretty far projecting. I can empathise you feel so strongly about this, but ND isn't the paranoid government or right wing mobs you seemingly target.

The apparel made sense given the area they were in and yeah, face coverings are a good disguise. A balaclava isn't going to fly in that area, THAT would just draw attention. The game is based in India, what are they going to do? Many want things to be normalized in society and not treated as an "other", but then when they are it's suddenly cultural appropriation and told you cannot go near this culture/religion/region of the world. What do we want? Constant othering or normalization? You can't have both, and I think there is far more troubling depictions of cultures than a strong female lead in an UC game wearing what she did in the trailer.

As I say often on GAF I think it is the bigotry of low expectations when things like this try and get turned around to say "we need to protect these people and/or culture because they seemingly cannot think in a nuanced or critical way and will just feel like constant victims and be angry at video games/TV/movies/books/etc". Honestly. As I stated above, what do you want? Society viewing the ways different cultures can behave as normal, or constantly othering people and societies and feeling like they cannot be discussed and clothing/food/hair styles/topics of religion cannot be universally shown/liked/critiqued?

I get you are just offering an opinion and critiquing, the above is just my counter-argument. No personal attack applies.

 

[EPaul]

Doesn't this mean ND is in a no-win situation if they try to showcase places and cultures not normally seen in games they get questioned about their intentions. If they do the normal locations for games such as north america and europe, people complain about the lack of diversity in gaming.

 

[antyk]

Am I correct in stating there were no religious garments in the Uncharted reveal, and that instead Chloe was shown wearing a dupatta, a common Indian (secular) garment, in a game set in India? If that's the case, what (if anything) are we saying that Naughty Dog has done wrong here?

Apparently ND should have realised that some people might not know it was a dupatta and instead identify it as a hijab, which in turn could be taken by them as a suggestion that - because Chloe tries to sneak past the guards - such outfit is designed to trick / deceive / hide, etc.

I can see that, but that's really far fetched concern.

 

[Necro900]

not NDs fault whatsoever, point was someone that writes, former lecturer, editor in chief made that link. which means have to be careful in portraying things.

ND are in an impossible position.

This just shows that he has the same amount of knowledge of the average person on this matter, it's not like his job automatically provides him with the info. If anything, he should know better.
And yes as said before, some could mistaken the dupatta with a hijab and among these people, a small racist percentage will make that disgusting connection that will make them think of terrorism.

Still, people being ignorant is no reason to dumb down a narrative/a design choice.

But hell, even if that was a niqab, there would be no issue either. Some muslim women in India do wear niqabs! Provided the fictional setting required Chloe to blend in a specific environment where niqabs are of common use, I wouldn't see the issue.

We should not account for every ignorant opinion that might arise out of an accurately designed product, provided the developer (ND in this case) treats the topic respectfully.

People who make that "muslim woman with niqab -> sneaky terrorist" connection, on the other hand, deserve no respect and shouldn't be accounted for when designing any type of media.

 

[Messofanego]

I get your concern OP, pay no attention to the people dismissing your concerns.

I don't think ND did it to purposefully demean your religious article of clothing, but its easy and more realistic to run around in a hijab in a middle eastern country while staying under cover.

I think that the function of the outfit serves the purpose enough to not have people second guess what the Hijab is actually for.

That's what's weird about all this, it seems to be set in India, not a middle eastern country. And making India out to be a warzone where women have to wear veils is a bit weird. It just seems like crisscrossed wires in Naughty Dog's research of what they wanted to portray.

 

[Altered Juice]

Oh noes.

Nice move...backing down on that drive-by shit post

 

[antyk]

That's what's weird about all this, it seems to be set in India, not a middle eastern country. And making India out to be a warzone where women have to wear veils is a bit weird. It just seems like crisscrossed wires in Naughty Dog's research of what they wanted to portray.

Can't it just be a district within the city? I'm sure in every big US or European country there are districts where inhabitants wear their traditional / religious clothes, because that's the custom of majority in there.

Why would anyone make the connection "covered face -> terrorist" here? It's not like she's blowing herself up on a buss station, grocery store or in a hospital full of men, women and children.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Can't it just be a district within the city? I'm sure in every big US or European country there are districts where inhabitants wear their traditional / religious clothes, because that's the custom of majority in there.

Why would anyone make the connection "covered face -> terrorist" here? It's not like she's blowing herself up on a buss station, grocery store or in a hospital full of men, women and children.

you can do other things that can be considered act of terrorism, like infiltrate government building and use violence on the occupants/guards.

 

[OriginalJonty]

That's what's weird about all this, it seems to be set in India, not a middle eastern country. And making India out to be a warzone where women have to wear veils is a bit weird. It just seems like crisscrossed wires in Naughty Dog's research of what they wanted to portray.

But they don't have to wear veils. As someone from an Indian family some of the women choose to wear this clothing especially during hotter months when there's a lot of dust in the air.

 

[IvorB]

That's what's weird about all this, it seems to be set in India, not a middle eastern country. And making India out to be a warzone where women have to wear veils is a bit weird. It just seems like crisscrossed wires in Naughty Dog's research of what they wanted to portray.

Um... it's a disguise. She does not want to be recognised and wants blend it. It's Undercover Operative 101 whether you're in a warzone or the middle of Paris. As it obscures most of her face is a pretty good choice for one.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Ok, so what's your point then? Because this...



...gives the impression that you expect from ND - and every other developer - to take into account how their design decision can potentially be perceived by all possible groups of people. It's a very conscious and politically correct thing to say, but it leaves very little room for the creators to actually tell a story they want to tell.

So, in this particular example - what she should be wearing?

Again, nobody is saying what Naughty Dog can or can't show or do. I am not offended by the disguise Chloe is wearing and I don't think they should change it either. At the same time, I recognize that the imagery evoked by it can be seen as problematic. The "point" is that there is a discussion about it. Creators can't just use these settings and cultures and expect people not to talk about them just like we talk about gameplay, music etc. Criticism is not censorship.

Asking me what I'd have made Chloe wear in this situation is pointless. It's not my story and I would have never written her in a situation like this because I have a different approach to storytelling when I write my stuff.

 

[maquiladora]

Has anybody approached ND about this on twitter?

Since it is character clothing it shouldn't be too time consuming for them to make any necessary changes before release.

 

[Memento]

Has anybody approached ND about this on twitter?

Since it is character clothing it shouldn't be too time consuming for them to make any necessary changes before release.

Why would they change anything since there is literally nothing wrong with it?

 

[OriginalJonty]

Again, nobody is saying what Naughty Dog can or can't show or do. I am not offended by the disguise Chloe is wearing and I don't think they should change it either. At the same time, I recognize that the imagery evoked by it can be seen as problematic. The "point" is that there is a discussion about it. Creators can't just use these settings and cultures and expect people not to talk about them just like we talk about gameplay, music etc. Criticism is not censorship.

Asking me what I'd have made Chloe wear in this situation is pointless. It's not my story and I would have never written her in a situation like this because I have a different approach to storytelling when I write my stuff.

The only people who will see it as problematic are those that are unfamiliar with Indian clothing trends. That isn't an issue ND has to deal with but an issue people that jump to the conclusion that covered face=terrorist do.

When I saw the footage for the first time I was proud to see a proper depiction of Indian attire in a game.

 

[WrenchNinja]

They don't need to change anything because of audience cultural ignorance. Maybe people can learn something here.

 

[antyk]

The "point" is that there is a discussion about it. Creators can't just use these settings and cultures and expect people not to talk about them just like we talk about gameplay, music etc. Criticism is not censorship.

Well, that was my point - whatever they'd do there will always be an angle from which that choice is inappropriate, dubious or even offensive. Sure we can discuss that, but there's risk that - if it wasn't offensive on purpose - that we're shackling the creative freedoms of developers and in the end they'll be afraid of taking any decision, because "someone might get offended". In the end we'd end up with just sandbox games with undefined protagonists, undefined NPCs and no story.

 

[antyk]

They don't need to change anything because of audience cultural ignorance. Maybe people can learn something here.

Isn't this topic actually suggesting the opposite - that ND should change it, because people take the outfit as a Muslim religious one and not Indian secular one and thus draw the conclusion "covered face" -> "terrorist" = "Muslim" ?

I don't see (and agree with) that personally, but I think that's the topic here.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Well, that was my point - whatever they'd do there will always be an angle from which that choice is inappropriate, dubious or even offensive. Sure we can discuss that, but there's risk that - if it wasn't offensive on purpose - that we're shackling the creative freedoms of developers and in the end they'll be afraid of taking any decision, because "someone might get offended". In the end we'd end up with just sandbox games with undefined protagonists, undefined NPCs and no story.

So you want people not to discuss aspects of their culture and how it's depicted in media because a creator might be afraid of offending a marginalized group? If that were any real concern we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with.

 

[Fancy Clown]

That's what's weird about all this, it seems to be set in India, not a middle eastern country. And making India out to be a warzone where women have to wear veils is a bit weird. It just seems like crisscrossed wires in Naughty Dog's research of what they wanted to portray.

I think they choose India partly because people know it's not a warzone. It would be a little more iffy to set a pulp adventure in a country that's actually being destroyed. But I don't see much of an issue with ND having one of their treasure obsessed warlords tear apart a city in India, like Nepal was used in Uncharted 2.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

We're not talking about a stereotype based on a preference for something being associated with some people, it's a type of clothing associated with half the population in that area. A black person, in, for example, a game set in a western city not liking fried chicken would absolutely not stand out, at all (obviously), whereas a woman not wearing an ankle-length outfit and with her hair and face covered in the country that scene is set in would absolutely stand out. When she's obviously trying to achieve something covert, it makes sense. I see the point you're making about the realism defence in a fantastical game world, but I don't really think it's comparable here.

If Chloe had rocked up in skinny jeans and a crop top it wouldn't have really worked for the scene. Maybe they could have gone with her in black stealth gear, but I think the aim is also to depict her as someone who can do that kind of infiltration work (including fooling/fast-talking the guards at close range).

I agree that there's wider implications of associating subterfuge with such outfits for a largely western audience, but western ignorance of how half a society actually dresses (and their reasons for doing so) isn't a good enough reason to avoid something.

Not really sure about conflating 'women's bodies are weaker' with 'it's OK to wear local dress when hiding abroad' as a negative 'realism' trend. One is clearly ridiculous both in heroic fiction and considering how much more capable real women in peak physical condition are than a large chunk of general blokes like me, the other seems quite sensible both for actual spies and fictional stories concerning competent characters.

I think it'll be good to see how the scene is framed in context rather than on its own as a teaser.

As it often happens in these kinds of threads, I'm afraid an excellent and reasonable post like yours is going to be largely ignored. Excellent points, though. What I bolded from your post is exactly what I was thinking as I read the first couple of pages of this thread.

 

[Giftofgab24]

I took it more as her using it to blend in, than solely to sneak past the armed forces. She wouldn't get far if she was just walking round in her usually very sexy clothing in a war-torn area in the middle east, so I think her costume makes sense, given the circumstances.

India is not the Middle East.

 

[Equanimity]

Was it ? Didn't pay attention earlier. yeah it's a shalwaar kameez . Yeah no religious connotations there ... It's just a standard issue thing women in India Pakistan etc wear . Indian subcontinent in general .

That's right.

Exactly, it's a more Hindu way of hiding one's face called 'ghoonghat' and even the style of her dress (the salwar kameez) is pretty much small town Hindu girl.

Then again, referring to the OP's concerns - don't people mistake Sikhs for Muslims because turbans and beards?

To be fair, Shalwaar kameez is the most common piece of clothing in Pakistan as well.

both perfect points.

this sort of puts ND in an impossible position of being utterly faithful to the region versus knowing their broad audience and imagery used.

a significant number of people on twitch thought that was an arab country spamming ANELE. not to take that at face value, i dont think its unreasonable to assume that most people see it as a muslim garment, however unintended it is, rather than a faithful representation of a part of india.

and here is why its impossible, because youre dealing with stereotypes, do you amend your accurate portrayal in order to be more conscious of the more sensitive issues affecting members of society?

I personally want to see a comparable depiction of any given area and its people. Twitch/YouTube comments don't really have any bearings on how characters should be portrayed.

Ah, cool. Good to know! So I can assume ND actually did some research into this, which is also a good thing.

Yep. Unless they have a few South Asian devs working on the DLC.

Oh...so its not even religious then?

Nope.

 

[Ishan]

If anything, I'm actually hoping that this game will help spread the understanding and it will educate people on the cultural values, tradition and customs of India.

I've a lot of Indian colleagues at work and it's always fascinating to hear them talk about their rich culture and traditions, so if ND manage to do an accurate portrayal of India and spread knowledge, it's a positive thing in my book.

Yes , I agree . I liked Nepal being in uc2

To me this sounds like wanting to forego logic to censor cultural traditions and "realistic" representations of places and people to avoid some hypothetical, tangentially related problems.

It would be like not showing a Muslim saying Allahu Akbar because Muslim terrorists also say it, so you're afraid that people make the connection between regular, decent people who happen to be Muslim and terrorists.

This doesn't work nor does it make sense. The truth makes sense, educating people makes sense, showing that there are plenty of cultures with traditions that go beyond our limited knowledge of them makes sense. Letting prejudice and harmful stereotypes lead to censorship of cultures and harmless traditions does not.

Agree

Am I correct in stating there were no religious garments in the Uncharted reveal, and that instead Chloe was shown wearing a dupatta, a common Indian (secular) garment, in a game set in India? If that's the case, what (if anything) are we saying that Naughty Dog has done wrong here?

Yes . I would more accurately classify it as an Indian subcontinent / south East Asia region regular piece of clothing . It's common in India, Pakistan etc

Can't it just be a district within the city? I'm sure in every big US or European country there are districts where inhabitants wear their traditional / religious clothes, because that's the custom of majority in there.

Why would anyone make the connection "covered face -> terrorist" here? It's not like she's blowing herself up on a buss station, grocery store or in a hospital full of men, women and children.

This . This can seem a bit alien for someone who has not visited India . But it is very common to have differing areas to have different norms and dressing senses even with a city in India . For example google old delhi / jama masjid in Delhi which is a Muslim dominated very old part of Delhi. You can expect such a scene . And that's also ignoring the fact that this is a dupatta salwaar kameez not a religious garment .

But they don't have to wear veils. As someone from an Indian family some of the women choose to wear this clothing especially during hotter months when there's a lot of dust in the air.

This . It's our jeans and t shirt .

Has anybody approached ND about this on twitter?

Since it is character clothing it shouldn't be too time consuming for them to make any necessary changes before release.

They don't need to change anything because of audience cultural ignorance. Maybe people can learn something here.

I prefer they don't change it . While I understand ops concerns . I am of the opinion my culture and clothing should be portrayed accurately. If someone wants to associate wrong connotations to it that is their fault and the subcontinents culture shouldn't be toned/watered down to accommodate someone's ignorance and bigotry.

Isn't this topic actually suggesting the opposite - that ND should change it, because people take the outfit as a Muslim religious one and not Indian secular one and thus draw the conclusion "covered face" -> "terrorist" = "Muslim" ?

I don't see (and agree with) that personally, but I think that's the topic here.

This thread has, with it's multiple posts by ppl from the subcontinent, hopefully taught ppl more about the pice of clothing in question and I hope nd keeps it as is .

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Isn't Chloe half-Indian anyway? Why is OP so angry about and Indian wearing Indian clothing?

 

[Shredderi]

Isn't Chloe half-Indian

Yes she is.

 

[antyk]

So you want people not to discuss aspects of their culture and how it's depicted in media because a creator might be afraid of offending a marginalized group? If that were any real concern we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with.

No, it's not my intention to avoid it obviously - it's important to ensure appropriate and fair representation of minorities in all media. However, in this case I have a feeling that we're looking for a - and discussing a - problem when there's none. And by doing this repeatedly we'll make devs question - and eventually abandon - even their most sincere and well-intentioned ideas.

 

[Kinyou]

ops concerns . I am of the opinion my culture and clothing should be portrayed accurately. If someone wants to associate wrong connotations to it that is their fault and the subcontinents culture shouldn't be toned/watered down to accommodate someone's ignorance and bigotry.

Matter of fact, I'd like it if the strive to make it even nore accurate. For example would one assume that those soldiers wouldn't speak english to chloe. (Unless theres some story context for that)

 

[crimilde]

Matter of fact, I'd like it if the strive to make it even nore accurate. For example would one assume that those soldiers wouldn't speak english to chloe. (Unless theres some story context for that)

Isn't speaking English very common in India? It's an official language right, along with Hindi?
And studies are done in English too?

 

[QuantumBro]

not NDs fault whatsoever, point was someone that writes, former lecturer, editor in chief made that link. which means have to be careful in portraying things.

ND are in an impossible position.

This wouldn't be a problem if the protagonist was just another straight white man, nothing to misinterpret there.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Matter of fact, I'd like it if the strive to make it even nore accurate. For example would one assume that those soldiers wouldn't speak english to chloe. (Unless theres some story context for that)

Agree with this, and yea I also wondered why they spoke English to her... And between each other.

One of the most awesome things about Uncharted 2 is when you're hanging out with Tenzin... You can't understand a word of what he's saying, but after several chapters of hanging out with him, he's so cool that you (the player) start caring about him, just like Drake does. (If I remember correctly, at some point in Uncharted 4, Drake says "man, I miss Tenzin" when seeing a picture in a photo album.)

 

[Raylan]

If the only way you can tell a scene is by conforming to racist bias, it's perhaps more prudent to rework the scene. ND wasn't stuck having to have Chloe do what she did.

Honestly, I'm not saying there is racial bias.

I'm not sure about what you are even talking about

 

[Chobel]

Matter of fact, I'd like it if the strive to make it even nore accurate. For example would one assume that those soldiers wouldn't speak english to chloe. (Unless theres some story context for that)

Now this one really bothered me. The soldiers saw some stranger who looks to be Indian woman (from the soldiers' point of view), why would they assume she speaks English?

 

[Ishan]

Matter of fact, I'd like it if the strive to make it even nore accurate. For example would one assume that those soldiers wouldn't speak english to chloe. (Unless theres some story context for that)

Actually many ppl in Indian cities speak at least some rudimentary broken English . This is because we just have so many languages (18 official last I checked) if you mean to have any conversation with a person who's from a different part of India you'll have to learn English . (Hindi is more prefer ant in Northern India but once you move out of a group of 5-6 or so northern states to the others pick up English . For example I speak English Hindi and 2 regional languages Oriya and Bengali . And my first instinct when speaking to someone from India is to start with English unless I already know where they are from etc .

Although here you could make a case for more Hindi too given the location depicted. But many Indians also combine both while speaking too we call it hinglish . ( Plus speaking English can also be a form of showing dominance/ showing off in certain parts . But that's reading a lot into a small scene I think here the intention was Indians speak English so we can get away with using that)

And there are words in Hindi in that sequence .you hear it with that family quickly going indoors . And then Chloe also says nahi which means no to the guard. I fact the words she uses "sir please nahi" is an example of hinglish


Nd has seriously done it's groundwork . I hadn't noticed or paid that much attention to these things . Possibly because the whole scene seemed so natural to me. And now looking back at it within the context of comments in this thread I notice nd has included these small things which I take as very normal in India but may not be obvious to someone who's not indian . I think they've done their groundwork from the looks of it .

 

[Mihos]

Now this one really bothered me. The soldiers saw some stranger who looks to be Indian woman (from the soldiers' point of view), why would they assume she speaks English?

I have been to Inida... I didn't meet a single person who didn't speak English.

 

[Raylan]

Now this one really bothered me. The soldiers saw some stranger who looks to be Indian woman (from the soldiers' point of view), why would they assume she speaks English?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English

I have been to Inida... I didn't meet a single person who didn't speak English.

.

 

[DOWN]

Matter of fact, I'd like it if the strive to make it even nore accurate. For example would one assume that those soldiers wouldn't speak english to chloe. (Unless theres some story context for that)

Agree with this, and yea I also wondered why they spoke English to her... And between each other.

One of the most awesome things about Uncharted 2 is when you're hanging out with Tenzin... You can't understand a word of what he's saying, but after several chapters of hanging out with him, he's so cool that you (the player) start caring about him, just like Drake does. (If I remember correctly, at some point in Uncharted 4, Drake says "man, I miss Tenzin" when seeing a picture in a photo album.)

Now this one really bothered me. The soldiers saw some stranger who looks to be Indian woman (from the soldiers' point of view), why would they assume she speaks English?

Actually many ppl in Indian cities speak at least some rudimentary broken English . This is because we just have so many languages (18 official last I checked) if you mean to have any conversation with a person who's from a different part of India you'll have to learn English . (Hindi is more prefer ant in Northern India but once you move out of a group of 5-6 or so northern states to the others pick up English . For example I speak English Hindi and 2 regional languages Oriya and Bengali . And my first instinct when speaking to someone from India is to start with English unless I already know where they are from etc .

And there are words in Hindi in that sequence also .you hear it with that family quickly going indoors . And then Chloe also says nahi which means no to the guard.

Interesting. So the English might be fine

 

[WrenchNinja]

Isn't this topic actually suggesting the opposite - that ND should change it, because people take the outfit as a Muslim religious one and not Indian secular one and thus draw the conclusion "covered face" -> "terrorist" = "Muslim" ?

I don't see (and agree with) that personally, but I think that's the topic here.

Yeah, that's why I'm saying they shouldn't change it. We don't need to cater to the culturally ignorant. They should instead use this as an opportunity to learn from the setting. I hope people have learned a ltitle bit just from this topic about the dresswear in South India.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

It's like you think someone could lose their family member in a crowd cuz they have a hijab on like its completely indecipherable who they are under there. No way, its a lazy thing in media --the hijab disguise-- to do I agree. The people are smarter than that

 

[WrenchNinja]

Actually many ppl in Indian cities speak at least some rudimentary broken English . This is because we just have so many languages (18 official last I checked) if you mean to have any conversation with a person who's from a different part of India you'll have to learn English . (Hindi is more prefer ant in Northern India but once you move out of a group of 5-6 or so northern states to the others pick up English . For example I speak English Hindi and 2 regional languages Oriya and Bengali . And my first instinct when speaking to someone from India is to start with English unless I already know where they are from etc .

And there are words in Hindi in that sequence also .you hear it with that family quickly going indoors . And then Chloe also says nahi which means no to the guard.

This is one thing that bothers me. The city is clearly in Tamilnadu given the store signs and Hotel sign at the end. But people are clearly not speaking tamil. Seems pretty odd.

 

[Kinyou]

Isn't speaking English very common in India? It's an official language right, along with Hindi?
And studies are done in English too?

Actually many ppl in Indian cities speak at least some rudimentary broken English . This is because we just have so many languages (18 official last I checked) if you mean to have any conversation with a person who's from a different part of India you'll have to learn English . (Hindi is more prefer ant in Northern India but once you move out of a group of 5-6 or so northern states to the others pick up English . For example I speak English Hindi and 2 regional languages Oriya and Bengali . And my first instinct when speaking to someone from India is to start with English unless I already know where they are from etc .

Although here you could make a case for more Hindi too given the location depicted. But many Indians also combine both while speaking too we call it hinglish . ( Plus speaking English can also be a form of showing dominance/ showing off in certain parts . But that's reading a lot into a small scene I think here the intention was Indians speak English so we can get away with using that)

And there are words in Hindi in that sequence .you hear it with that family quickly going indoors . And then Chloe also says nahi which means no to the guard. I fact the words she uses "sir please nahi" is an example of hinglish


Nd has seriously done it's groundwork . I hadn't noticed or paid that much attention to these things . Possibly because the whole scene seemed so natural to me. And now looking back at it within the context of comments in this thread I notice nd has included these small things which I take as very normal in India but may not be obvious to someone who's not indian . I think they've done their groundwork from the looks of it .

I guess I really showed my ignorance there. Always cool to learn new stuff.

 

[PSqueak]

Huh, personally i thought she was wearing it because she was in a war torn area with dust, sand and debris particles in the air as the city got bombed and that garment would provide protection from it.

 

[Ishan]

Isn't speaking English very common in India? It's an official language right, along with Hindi?
And studies are done in English too?

So we have many official languages . Last I count I remember was eighteen . But in general for legal stuff Hindi and English are both uses . And yes you learn English growing up and many learn it not as a second language but as a medium of instruction . For me I'm actually most comfortable speaking English even though I know Hindi Oriya and Bengali too . I'll speak those with some family friends etc but when with the same people if I'm trying to articulate something I'll shift to English (my typing is error prone and I don't re read my posts so they often have errors but my spoken English is fine ...)

However there are many poor people in India without access to even basic schooling so they wouldn't know English . But once you're in cities a lot of people can either speak it fluently or at least speak some rudimentary form of it so communication is possible .

 

[Glass Rebel]

No, it's not my intention to avoid it obviously - it's important to ensure appropriate and fair representation of minorities in all media. However, in this case I have a feeling that we're looking for a - and discussing a - problem when there's none. And by doing this repeatedly we'll make devs question - and eventually abandon - even their most sincere and well-intentioned ideas.

Devs have no problem making every middle eastern setting a war zone and every villain a Russian. They'll be fine.

 

[wenaldy]

Has anybody approached ND about this on twitter?

Since it is character clothing it shouldn't be too time consuming for them to make any necessary changes before release.

Maybe you can, since you have so much free time to do it.

 

[Wavebossa]

Isn't Chloe half-Indian anyway? Why is OP so angry about and Indian wearing Indian clothing?

This.

An Indian wearing Indian clothing speaking an official language of India (English).


But due to ignorance, the OP and many others assumed it was an American posing as a middle eastern, Islamac terrorist and thus confirming stereotypical biases.

I think its clear where the burden of education lies here, and its not with Naughty Dog. I'm glad we could all learn something from this thread