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Remember when teachers told u math was important
- Thread starter Ryaaan14
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True Savior
Member
OP sorry to say but your post is probably the dumbest thing i have ever read on GAF (the math stuff).
KiwiLannister
Member
Like most things, maths is actually really easy - at least to pre-calculus level. People just talk themselves into it. Most of mathematics is literally just following instructions until you get to higher level stuff. People just let weird symbols freak them out and convince themselves they're bad at it. As my old teacher said, you just need to be well trained monkeys.
Means nothing if everything was set up for a 10 person table when my aunt shows up with a friend and everyone decides they'd like to sit elsewhere due to the weather/crowded area and some people don't want to sit next to each other and we need to wait 30min for a big enough table inside.
I've found planning like that doesn't work too well since you can't control others. I find that analysing risks based upon my social experience with those people and deciding on the safest option to work better in situations like that. I just end up using loose mathematics in those situations, like ordering a table with more than enough room (say 15 places instead of 10) or something to be better, and planning closer to the event than further away so I can see weather predictions. Takes out a lot of the stress.
KiwiLannister
Member
So..... you use maths?
E(X) = 10
sigma(X) = 3
Tradeoff analysis assessing risks
Order a 15 person table with ~95ish % certainty.
Mesurements and basic ass math but for most part my is gonna be physical labor
Sorry
British Monsoon
Member
As someone who's never had a good grasp of mathematics, this is an opinion I've encountered a few times and it never really loses it sting - to know that you're essentially being written off by a large portion of society, simply for not excelling in one area of academia that some attribute much importance to. I should probably just off myself, I guess, as without maths I'll never be worth a damn or do anything worth a damn.
Well, no. Not from my perspective anyway and that's definitely not how it plays out in my head.
"My aunt's unpredictable, and my family's unsociable and picky, better make sure there's enough room."
This has actually been proven false. Reading is up with people aged 13-30, and down with people over the age of 30.
KiwiLannister
Member
The way you're throwing around expletives like a ten year old trying to seem cool makes it seem as though you're proud of not knowing something. I don't understand abstract art but I'd never go around "I don't fucking need this shit, real art is realistic, #modernart" because my ignorance on that subject is not something i'm proud of.
Obviously it's not formal mathematics, but that kind of thinking is exactly what you would do if using maths to plan for something.
ZackieChan
Member
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Oh please do shut the fuck up with that persecution/stealth anti-intellectualism bullshit.
You also don't have people shoving abstract art down your throat telling you you need it to be a functioning adult.
Geez dude, I feel people who put a lot of emphasis on how fucking important math is are dummies who are in debt for a shitty math degree no one gives two fucks about.
I didn't say anything like that. I use information to solve problems all the time. Just not dumb math ones that take 10 steps.
I just don't want to do stuff like matrices, functions, slope, whatever, etc.
Joyful
Member
7/10
KiwiLannister
Member
I don't think people studying quantitative degrees like mathematics, engineering, accounting, finance really need much more validation when it comes to the worth of those degrees in the real world. Having a mathematics background is a key to a very easy 6 figure salary and potentially many times that. Maths is definitely the last subject you want to be talking about as being useless.
PdotMichael
Banned
The joke is that even mechanics worth a shit need to do calculations all the time. But if people are happy with doing grudge work then you don't need math indeed. I like that my welding specialists have a healthy understanding of mechanics and can apply formulas without problems.
It just sounds a bit weird for me because I worked as a mechanic in a factory a couple years ago and I definitely had to use trig and some algebra. My job was to help the plant engineer fix broken machines and stuff. That involved using machine tools to make spare parts, do some welding, soldering, etc. You can get away with measuring stuff instead of calculating a lot of the time but there were definitely more than a few instances where I had to calculate angles (when making spare parts — involves trig), calculate quantities (e.g. when you have a limited amount of material that can be used for two different things, or when you need to mix liquids like epoxy in specific proportions — involves algebra), and of course tons of easier calculations when making stuff. Ha and budgeting is always important and will naturally involve maths.
KiwiLannister
Member
Ever considered a career in wedding catering?
That sounds like the most stressful job in the whole wide world oh god oh god.
Math is something you should really give your all when you learn it. Look at it this way. When you are in the middle of your education, many many potential fields will require a good foundation of maths. Given that your education is for your investment, it would be wise to really try to learn math and see if you could make a career with it. Most people that don't like math get frustrated with it early and that frustration gets compounded later. When you dismiss math early, you're taking a lot of potential careers off the table. That's why I say if anything, give math your all and see how you feel about it.
Dude, I read about history more than most people but do you think I tell them how worthless they are to society because they don't know shit about history. Also, when did I take pride in being lazy in high school not once did I brag I was simply stating that you don't need math to make a living. Basic math is important but trig, algebra, geometry, calculus, etc are too specific subjects. It's like calling someone an illiterate imbecile for not taking ap English.
What about after you already know what you want to do, and it definitely will not use the kinds of maths that are required in college, but you still have to take those classes? It's just frustrating. But yeah, I sucked it up.
jimbobsmells
Member
Never realised how important maths was until I got into the working world.
Do your math homework OP, seriously. You'll regret it otherwise.
Do your math homework OP, seriously. You'll regret it otherwise.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Calling math unimportant is like calling astronomy unimportant.
The highest you'd have to go is likely calculus 1, which isn't too bad. From my observation, calculus mainly screwed people over that never properly learned trig and algebra. I don't need history, rhetoric, art, geology or all of those useless elective courses for my computer science degree, but I still put the effort into it.
I'm not really sure how to read this, bravo!
You don't need trig or geometry or calculus in day to day life. Algebra is handy, however, and formal logic.
Well I'm want to be a vehicle mechanic which can be very different from being a engineer at a factory but I've done my research and for most what you said is true which makes me a little nervous but then they teach everything Before you start. I'm also thinking of being an air traffic controller but the hours are very long for that.
KiwiLannister
Member
I didn't say people are worthless to society because they didn't learn mathematics. I just said that mathematics is extremely useful and nobody should be proud about being ignorant about it.
If I said history is a useless subject and I never learned it, then you could rightly call me out for being an idiot about it.
And just because I think mathematics is worthwhile doesn't mean I can't see that value in English Literature/History etc. I think their value propositions as degrees are a bit dubious (if you're going to go 100k into debt for an English degree the payoff vs reward is not going to be high, at least in most cases) but the subjects themselves are very interesting and worthwhile.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Both are used everyday. By their very nature, neither are unimportant. Application is subjective. Knowledge is not.
It isn't too bad, yeah see you say that, but it still gave me a LOT of frustration and set me back.
And like, why should be learning all this stuff if I'm not going to use it? Seriously! Just take the parts of math that are actually important, not all the fluff and bs.
Discrete math has been my most fun math classes so far. I like how it requires you to think in a more constructive manner. Developing proofs and applying principles that seem obvious but can be used powerfully is pretty great. Things like mathematic induction and pigeon hole principle are things that can be used by an average joe for particular problems.
This country has a problem with... critical thinking. Especially regarding what they read.
Our standards of reading and writing are too low on a nationwide scale. Not illiterate, sure, but not good enough for a supposedly modern country.
Okay, but this thread isn't about the importance of knowledge. It's about pragmatism.
I highly doubt most people use astronomy in their day to day life. Me, I only use my limited grasp of astronomy to shit on Interstellar. A narrow application compared to mathematics, no?
Our standards of reading and writing are too low on a nationwide scale. Not illiterate, sure, but not good enough for a supposedly modern country.
Okay, but this thread isn't about the importance of knowledge. It's about pragmatism.
I highly doubt most people use astronomy in their day to day life. Me, I only use my limited grasp of astronomy to shit on Interstellar. A narrow application compared to mathematics, no?
British Monsoon
Member
How about, no? Imagine being told you'd never accomplish anything of "lasting significance" in your life because of your continued failure at one particular subject - I'm not academically bereft and have no intention of promoting any anti-intellectual ideals (as you seem to be suggesting, for some reason), I just suck at maths.
CyclopsRock
Member
I wish I'd remembered more of Maths from school. I didn't hate it, but I never took it beyond the age of 16 or so and whilst I did pretty well in my exams, it just slipped out of my head. Quadratic equations?! What do you need this shit for?!
Well, now I know! I work in VFX and often find myself doing coding, making little tools and whatnot. Most of the time it's fine because the algorithms I use are so basic, but whenever I actually need to manipulate things in a slightly complicated way in 3D space, my brain explodes. Vectors, matrices, angular transformations - I basically don't know the maths behind any of it. Cosine, Tangent etc. Whenever I look it up I find revision material for the exam I did when I was 16 (GCSE Bytesize 4 lyfe) and cry a little bit inside; I once knew this, when I didn't need it, and now that I do need it I don't know it anymore!
The problem is that when you're learning the maths in school, you sort of need pretty specific situations in order to use it, and those situations will usually be beyond the educational grade that you're in. I think that as programming becomes more and more common for younger and younger students people will find more use for it.
Well, now I know! I work in VFX and often find myself doing coding, making little tools and whatnot. Most of the time it's fine because the algorithms I use are so basic, but whenever I actually need to manipulate things in a slightly complicated way in 3D space, my brain explodes. Vectors, matrices, angular transformations - I basically don't know the maths behind any of it. Cosine, Tangent etc. Whenever I look it up I find revision material for the exam I did when I was 16 (GCSE Bytesize 4 lyfe) and cry a little bit inside; I once knew this, when I didn't need it, and now that I do need it I don't know it anymore!
The problem is that when you're learning the maths in school, you sort of need pretty specific situations in order to use it, and those situations will usually be beyond the educational grade that you're in. I think that as programming becomes more and more common for younger and younger students people will find more use for it.
By this logic, literature, history, art, music, science, and nearly every major school subject outside of basic reading and writing should be stricken from curricula. It's not about what specific pieces of information or skills a child will end up needing as an adult; most of us specialize in one small area. It's about growing your own critical thinking skills, logical application of ideas, and learning to solve problems with novel application of known rules.
Gosh, a problem that takes ten steps to solve?! I respect people that aren't in STEM. But I don't respect people who value ignorance over knowledge because they think they aren't going to use matrices at age 35. Who gives a fuck? Learn something.
Yeah, astronomy is a very specific field.
I doubt most billionaires no shit about astronomy
In your other post you assume that I'd want a 6 figure salary, why?
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
The richer you are, the less important studying becomes
KiwiLannister
Member
This is just not true. Maybe you were let down by your teachers, but you didn't suck at maths. It is literally just following instructions at the basic level. University level calculus sure, but nobody is doomed to fail at algebra.
Irony? You're literally going to argue from the perspective of someone that is rich and then decry the value of money in the same post?
Money isn't necessarily everyone's goal, but nobody wants to be poor. Everyone wants financial stability, the ability to support themselves and their family. Most people want time off, the ability to travel etc. Earning more can give you that. Obviously it only facilitates your lifestyle so if someone is happier earning 40k as a teacher because that's their passion then of course that's great but there's nothing wrong with liking money.
And besides a lot of billionaires know a shit ton about maths. Anyone that got rich through finance or engineering used significant maths to get there. And that accounts for a lot of the world's billionaires.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
No?
Read the OP again. Hell, read the thread TITLE.
90% of the users defending the OP are doing so out of knee-jerk.
I don't VALUE ignorance. I'm not prideful of the fact that I hate math. I WISH I liked it.
Still, you're right. I haven't thought of it that way. I like you and your work, Feep, so I'd rather you didn't think I was some kind of entitled dumbass
As someone who took up to AP Calculus (plus AP Stats, but that was an elective) in high school and hasn't taken a math course in over 2 years, I don't feel like anything past Algebra 1 is important for people not going into majors which involve math.
Since I've gotten out of high school I've still made occasional use of equations, expressions, percentages, and other basic algebra stuff like that, but I've never once needed to use anything from Calc or Trig. I guess some basic geometry stuff like measuring an area or volume has come up rarely as well but most of what you do need from geometry is very simple common sense type stuff.
Cursive is completely worthless though, aside from my signature I haven't used it since 5th grade. I remember my teacher in 3rd grade told me everything I wrote would have to be in cursive in middle school and high school. More like everything I write which matters is just typed instead.
Since I've gotten out of high school I've still made occasional use of equations, expressions, percentages, and other basic algebra stuff like that, but I've never once needed to use anything from Calc or Trig. I guess some basic geometry stuff like measuring an area or volume has come up rarely as well but most of what you do need from geometry is very simple common sense type stuff.
Cursive is completely worthless though, aside from my signature I haven't used it since 5th grade. I remember my teacher in 3rd grade told me everything I wrote would have to be in cursive in middle school and high school. More like everything I write which matters is just typed instead.
Read between the lines.
He's concerned with real life utility, not the philosophy of education. So is most of the thread. Look at all those examples of how math is used.
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