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[Cosmonaut X]

I can't believe so many people are complaining about the umbrella/Jungle King puzzle. This kind of thing isn't nearly as bad as some of the shit King's Quest/Space Quest would pull on you... that sometimes required huge parts of the game to be redone.

Nor can I - especially when the complaints are coming from a gaming community that prides itself on being "hardcore". The game is - so far - beautifully put together so that even when you die, a run-through of the level only takes a couple of minutes (that's assuming you don't want to use your tickets to simply revive you on the spot). Of course you don't want to die, but if you do the game is forgiving enough to let you get back to where you perished in next to no time.

Considering the kind of time investment involved in JRPGs, or the frustrating save mechanics in many current games, I'm amazed that anyone here would moan about Zack & Wiki...

 

[Creamium]

The complaint is perfectly legitimate because of the nature of the end of the level. It's a trap, plain and simple. There is no way you could know you would need the umbrella after sliding down the rope. If they showed a one second cutscene of the rock getting cracked, that would've made all the difference. To me, this isn't about replaying through the level again, but punishing the gamer for stuff they couldn't have seen coming at all.

 

[slaughterking]

I'm currently stuck on the Mad Science level. I've got

Spoiler

three potion ingredients all on the tabletop and I don't know which one is which - one was there, one I got from the Centipede and one I got from the Bat. The one that was there already was in the "Bird" section which I assume is what you'd get from mulching up the bat, but the bat solution I made is a completely different colour!

Do I have to try and work out which one is which now? Or am I looking at this wrong?

Spoiler

The Bat is a mammalian (not a bird) and the Centipede is an insect. Check the quartered board on the machine to figure out which symbol belongs to which organisms.

 

[SovanJedi]

The complaint is perfectly legitimate because of the nature of the end of the level. It's a trap, plain and simple. There is no way you could know you would need the umbrella after sliding down the rope. If they showed a one second cutscene of the rock getting cracked, that would've made all the difference. To me, this isn't about replaying through the level again, but punishing the gamer for stuff they couldn't have seen coming at all.

It's not the legitimacy of the complaint that's the problem - yes, it is a cheap trick to pull on you unless you did so happen to pick up the umbrella before setting off. All I'm saying is that the game is a byproduct of a bunch of games that pulled the same tricks not only far more frequently, but far worse too. There'd be no warning that you're going to die sometimes unless you'd picked up something way way earlier in the game, and if you had saved over your save games without the means to return to an early enough point to resolve the case, you were proper fucked. Restart the ENTIRE game time for you bucko!

You can argue the same complaint about those games too, but Zack & Wiki has it far more balanced than what they did - you have Golden Tickets, levels can be redone within a few minutes and you could never work yourself into a position where it was impossible to do anything and you would've had to have started the game ALL. OVER. AGAIN. I think I would've preferred games like this back in those days, it's much more fair.

In any case it's not like Capcom isn't afraid of making a gameplay feature out of what some might consider "bad design choices" - for example the tank controls of Resident Evil games before RE4. In the end they were conscientious choices made at the time to add to the experience they were going for. No real point complaining about something they purposefully integrated into the game.

Spoiler

[/CODE]The Bat is a mammalian (not a bird) and the Centipede is an insect. Check the quartered board on the machine to figure out which symbol belongs to which organisms.

D'oh! Biology for the lose, schoolboy error e.t.c. - gee do I feel dumb for that.

I did wonder about that picture though... Thanks!

 

[Creamium]

All I'm saying is that the game is a byproduct of a bunch of games that pulled the same tricks not only far more frequently, but far worse too.

No real point complaining about something they purposefully integrated into the game.

Ok so first: I shouldn't complain about this because other games have done it in the past so it's okay? Yeah right. It's about the concept in general. This game doesn't get excused because it calls back to earlier games.

And second: just because they purposely put it in there, doesn't make it valid for complaint? ok that just let dozens of bad gameplay mechanics off the hook.
Look, I don't care about the notion of golden tickets because the puzzle/concept is inherently broken and no callbacks to other adventure games or concious design choices can excuse that.

Note that I only feel the game has slipped on this puzzle. Every other room thus far has given enough hints about potential danger. For example very first puzzle: loose planks before you get to the chest: clear indication there is danger. Further along the hints get less obvious, which is necessary too. But no indication whatsoever? no.

 

[Phife Dawg]

The complaint is perfectly legitimate because of the nature of the end of the level. It's a trap, plain and simple. There is no way you could know you would need the umbrella after sliding down the rope. If they showed a one second cutscene of the rock getting cracked, that would've made all the difference. To me, this isn't about replaying through the level again, but punishing the gamer for stuff they couldn't have seen coming at all.

It's 3 friggin' minutes! Give me a break. Also when zoomed out you could see that the plattform is rested/balanced only on the tip of the rock, which should've been a hint.

Anyways this isn't even the best way to do the level, so you get punished for not playing smart enough .

 

[Dash Kappei]

Im in london see copies everywhere... is it that much of a shortage?

I'm not in London right now (nor I will be this month), I'm in Italy and I can't seem to find the damn game.

 

[BetterWorldz]

Got mine just now. It's selling n°2 just behind Galaxy in ScoreGame stores (France)!

Now let's see if it's as good as they say.

edit: It's better.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Its payday for me, so I just did my part!

Its no 3 in the GAME Liverpool chart. Hopefully thats good.

Looking forward to getting home and cracking it open!

 

[Dash Kappei]

Yay, Mediaworld just received a big stock yesterday with plenties of Zack and Wiki, so today I went straight from work and holy glory alleluja I've finally got it!

So no 2nd hand copy for ole Dashe, Capcom rejoices!

 

[Kuran]

Played the first two worlds with my girlfriend yesterday, fantastic game!

We only needed one tip, we couldn't figure out how to get that darn frog in one of the ice levels.

My only complaints are that you can't pick up coins like in Galaxy (without having to press A) and that the music mini-game where you have to ring the bells is impossible. Which is a shame because it has some cool songs.

Is there a good tip someone can give me that will allow me to succeed at the music game?

 

[Atreides]

Played the first two worlds with my girlfriend yesterday, fantastic game!

We only needed one tip, we couldn't figure out how to get that darn frog in one of the ice levels.

Spoiler

Use the bell to turn one instrument back into a snake. The snake will chase the frog.

My only complaints are that you can't pick up coins like in Galaxy (without having to press A) and that the music mini-game where you have to ring the bells is impossible. Which is a shame because it has some cool songs.

You can pick several coins at a time using the bell.

 

[Kuran]

Spoiler

Use the bell to turn one instrument back into a snake. The snake will chase the frog.

Thanks, but we already got past that! We unlocked the third world, but went to sleep..

You can pick several coins at a time using the bell.

Ah true, I did notice that after five hours of play late last night!

No tip for the music game?!

 

[Atreides]

Ah true, I did notice that after five hours of play late last night!

No tip for the music game?!

I'm stuck in the music game too

 

[Mdk7]

Yay, Mediaworld just received a big stock yesterday with plenties of Zack and Wiki, so today I went straight from work and holy glory alleluja I've finally got it!

So no 2nd hand copy for ole Dashe, Capcom rejoices!

\0/

I got to the last level, the game seriously fucking rocks.
And it lasts pretty much too (even if i might not spend all the time needed to unlock all the insanely cool extra artworks...)!

 

[SovanJedi]

For people stuck in the music minigame, you have to REALLY shake the Wii Remote hard, as if it was an actual hand bell. Up-and-down motion works for me. For long zigzaggy bits, keep shaking the Remote. IF there's a bell at the end of the zigzag don't forget to shake it for that as well.

 

[Mdk7]

For people stuck in the music minigame, you have to REALLY shake the Wii Remote hard, as if it was an actual hand bell. Up-and-down motion works for me. For long zigzaggy bits, keep shaking the Remote. IF there's a bell at the end of the zigzag don't forget to shake it for that as well.

Yes, shake the Wiimote hard but with really firm movements... Once you get how it works (something that actually took me 20 tries! :lol ) you'll be ok for the whole game!

 

[DEAD RABBIT]

Bought the game a few days ago.

The good:
- The puzzles, insanely and creatively difficult, the likes of which I haven't seen in years
- The style, contrasts nicely with how fucking hard this game is
- The production quality, the art is very good and the overal polish in areas such as animation and level design, seems very thorough

General observations:
- It's a very niche game

The bad:
- Wiimote pointer, interaction with the world is annoying at times, the pointer mechanics are a bit broken imho
- The Wiimote mechanics with objects are sometimes very annoying to the point of breaking the game, the ringing of the bell is great though, but using the saw is sometimes very annoying, overal the control feels very sluggish
- The music game is broken, it ruined the game slightly for me

Best thing about this game:

Spoiler

The very high volcano level with the robot is my favourite level. They should have expanded more on such gameplay innovations

Worst thing about this game:

Spoiler

The music game, I hate it.

Overall:
The only thing this game really misses is smoothed out controls and interfacing. Everything else is good or great.

 

[Dascu]

Alright, I did my part this morning. 50 euros (GameMania, Belgium). A bit pricey... but it's (hopefully) worth it. I also got a pre-order for No More Heroes.

 

[kizmah]

you could never work yourself into a position where it was impossible to do anything and you would've had to have started the game ALL. OVER. AGAIN.

Not the game. But you can work yourself into a position where you have to restart the current level.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

No tip for the music game?!

I was stuck for bloody ages, what helped me was holding the wiimote like a drumstick instead of, er..., like a wiimote.

IE I was holding just the very end of it, and 'tapping' along with the music as though I was playing a drum. Beat the music minigame first time that way.

 

[nli10]

Ok so first: I shouldn't complain about this because other games have done it in the past so it's okay? Yeah right. It's about the concept in general. This game doesn't get excused because it calls back to earlier games.

And second: just because they purposely put it in there, doesn't make it valid for complaint? ok that just let dozens of bad gameplay mechanics off the hook.
Look, I don't care about the notion of golden tickets because the puzzle/concept is inherently broken and no callbacks to other adventure games or concious design choices can excuse that.

Note that I only feel the game has slipped on this puzzle. Every other room thus far has given enough hints about potential danger. For example very first puzzle: loose planks before you get to the chest: clear indication there is danger. Further along the hints get less obvious, which is necessary too. But no indication whatsoever? no.

I agree on this one puzzle being not cryptic, but to an average player unavoidable. I did not ask to put down the item, didn't even register that I didn't have it. I think the reasoning behind doing it like that was to encourage the other solution to the puzzle though, but it's an odd way to do it.

Z&W is much farer than older games in this style, that frequently had choices that looked safe being the deadly option and the dangerous option being the correct choice with no prior clues. Man that was frustration.

Z&W doesn't need the hints & tickets, but they are there for little sister mode :lol but after I said this she has refused to use them and stopepd playing.

As for me, the game isn't advance wars so will have to wait to be played more. Still on ice world!

 

[Dash Kappei]

Holy shit this game rocks!

I don't get all the music mingame complaints either, it worked fine for me the very first time, just play as if you're holding a bell, not the wiimote.
Maybe being a drum player helped me a bit, dunno.

I don't think the controls feel sluggish at all, only thing that feels that way sometimes is pointing to make Zack go places, only complain so far is that I would've liked better if in zoom out mode you could go back to default camera position simply by pressing B (which lets you zoom in instead) w/o having to select the icon all the times.. that bothers me a little.