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[camineet]

I think sticking with dual core only would bottleneck the new Wii in 2011. The developers are all figuring out how threaded programming works and they source out physics and AI and stuff. And then Ninty comes with dual core only, but they have like 3 or 4 threads? no, thats not that clever. Quadro is the minimum I would think.

Look, I am all for a quad-core CPU, and each core being capable of more than 2 threads, say 4 threads per core, 16 threads total, thus totally out-gunning Xenon and even out doing CELL as far as total threads.

I'm just trying to balance what I want, with what Nintendo is somewhat/maybe likely to implement.

The current HD consoles are somewhat out of balance IMO. They have powerful complex CPUs, but got short changed in graphics. Moreso the PS3.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Yeah, I was stupid, I ended up saying something entirely different to what I wanted :-DDD What I wanted to say was that maybe they're going to create something new, based on some new game idea, and that it might not be as easy to predict what that'll be just based on how technology progresses. After all, the technology of the Wiimote, or the DS, isn't anything super advanced. As for "needing" better visuals etc, I think the market has been saying "no" to this from their viewpoint, and it's not like better AI or use of physics is so incredibly important to gameplay from their perspective. Developers still don't really know how to use the power of HD consoles, except for more shininess, it might take quite a bit of time until they figure it out

 

[Haly]

No No No No...

ofc its gonna be:

Wii -> WiiD

Or better yet...

WiiDii!

 

[Black-Wind]

I have to agree with this post from Malstrom
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/for-console-news-publishers-are-unreliable-sources/

Yea, it's common sense that there will be HD Nintendo console next gen but, as is this gen, Nintendo will focus on interface. (Which would make sense from the "as strong as the 360" bit in this guy's interview with 1UP)

I really like this bit about the date . . .

A red flag should have been the ‘assertion’ that Nintendo will release the new console in 2011. Right after E3 2008, Iwata was publicly mocking Sony’s assertion of the ‘ten year plan’ by saying it is customers and software that define the life of the hardware, not the technology inside it. There is absolutely no internal plan to create a new console by 2011 just ‘because’. A new console might appear there but will emerge when consumers tire of the Wii or when competitors jumpstart their new consoles.

Which brings me back to the rumor about Sony "pulling a Wii" and making their next console only 2x more powerful than the PS3 by 2011. And given how the 360 has been out a year longer than the other 2 I could see them releasing XBox 3 in late 2010 to get that head start again.

I think that either the Wii sells drop or the comp pops off a next gen start . . . I don't think Nintendo will cut the Wii's life if neither of the other 2 put pressure on them (as in, they try to stay in that 10 year life spand BS) well sells are still high for Wii.

Also, I do think that DSi shows us 2 important things . . .
1. Nintendo is getting into more DD stuff with this DS ware.
2. They plain on holding off on a new HandHeld for a few more years.

I presonally think that the next Console will have more connection to the new handheld in some manner.

(Oh, and I still think holographic storage will at least be in the new handheld given the Nintendo-inphase thing)

 

[camineet]

The Wii is only a convenient platform/hub for all the accessories. Upgrading the base unit will not be a priority.

They are releasing mini upgrades every damn year; Wii Board, Wii Motion plus,...

Of course you know those are new controllers for the Wii.

Nothing to do with the topic of a next-generation Wii HD / Wii 2 platform,
which is in development in some form.

 

[camineet]

I still think Microsoft & Sony will release next-gen consoles with
*moderate CPU upgrade
(2x to 5x more CPU power thus much smaller than the shift from last-gen to current-gen)
*large graphic upgrade
( 10x or more, thus, more than the shift from last-gen to current-gen. It's not as crazy as it sounds. Now that developers have done HD for a generation, increasing the graphics again but NOT the resolution won't massively increase the budget for artwork. everything can be based on current gen, just MORE detail, better framerates, better lighting.
*large RAM upgrade (8x if not 16x)
* control interface beyond Wii Remote + Motion Plus, but not much beyond.

Nintendo will go their own way, focus on highest profit for themselves. Improve Wii Remote interface, not revolutionize it again, but it'll be better than what Sony & Microsoft offer. Nintendo will have a large hardware (CPU, GPU, RAM) upgrade but only in comparison to GCN & Wii, not based on what Sony & Microsoft do. Will still be trailing edge, but not as far behind techwise as Wii is this gen. Nintendo should not only go for 720p, but also 1080p. There's no point in a Wii HD that's only good at 720p. Nintendo will do HD right. That'll require more GPU power than 360 & PS3 combined, but only upto 2008 level technology, and use the 3 or 4 years from now until 2011 or 2012 to cost reduce like mad. They'll have another great cost/performance chip. Nintendo will make money on the hardware once again, not bleed money.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

MS and Sony have lost a metric ton of money this gen on hardware. All while Nintendo has fucking laughed their way to the bank. Anyone that thinks MS and Sony are going to have as big of a jump hardware wise going into next gen as they did this one, is fucking kidding themselves.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Screw it, I predict they will choose the hardware Artx was working on before they made the decision to duct tape some gamecubes together. I remember an interview shortly after the gc was launched about what they expected their next chipset to be like (they said they expected between 250-500 million transistors). This will place is shy of the Xbox 360 in power, they can make up for it with more ram, but I doubt they'll go for that.

 

[camineet]

Screw it, I predict they will choose the hardware Artx was working on before they made the decision to duct tape some gamecubes together. I remember an interview shortly after the gc was launched about what they expected their next chipset to be like (they said they expected between 250-500 million transistors). This will place is shy of the Xbox 360 in power, they can make up for it with more ram, but I doubt they'll go for that.

I honestly don't remember that. I know what I will be googling for tonight, ArtX chips that were in development.

Was this before or after the R300 / Radeon 9700 of 2002 ?

 

[Log4Girlz]

I honestly don't remember that. I know what I will be googling for tonight, ArtX chips that were in development.

Was this before or after the R300 / Radeon 9700 of 2002 ?

It was aaaages ago, I think before the 9700. I forget whether it was a magazine article or online, but they only gave a guess as to the complexity of the next chip, no indication that they had indeed started work. Having said that, I would imagine they at least started some preliminary work, and the rights would be in Nintendo's hands.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

So what's the likelihood of Nintendo using CELL in their new system?

Not likely in all probability, but at the same time, it's not by far the most irrational thing they could do.

It's an established platform, it's getting cheaper to produce (by 2011, should be deadset cheap), is a significant evolution over the Wii, has an established developer base, and would probably get good prices on it from IBM/Sony/Toshiba.

They could even one up the PS3, by providing enough juice to pull off 1080p 60FPS, no tearing consistently (and with enough consistency, mandate it as a requirement for games, so that they can have this sort of thing as a quality benchmark for their brand).

More and more, these game console makers are becoming software companies then they are hardware companies. Once power has increased to such an extent that features are in essence homogenous, there's not going to be a real benefit for having a seperate hardware platform.
Differentiation can still be made via specs, packaging, marketing and cost strategy, and of course accessories... but most importantly software.

 

[Log4Girlz]

So what's the likelihood of Nintendo using CELL in their new system?

Not likely in all probability, but at the same time, it's not by far the most irrational thing they could do.

It's an established platform, it's getting cheaper to produce (by 2011, should be deadset cheap), is a significant evolution over the Wii, has an established developer base, and would probably get good prices on it from IBM/Sony/Toshiba.

They could even one up the PS3, by providing enough juice to pull off 1080p 60FPS, no tearing consistently (and with enough consistency, mandate it as a requirement for games, so that they can have this sort of thing as a quality benchmark for their brand).

More and more, these game console makers are becoming software companies then they are hardware companies. Once power has increased to such an extent that features are in essence homogenous, there's not going to be a real benefit for having a seperate hardware platform.
Differentiation can still be made via specs, packaging, marketing and cost strategy, and of course accessories... but most importantly software.

If they have anything more than a dual-core, modest CPU I would be shocked. I'm totally expecting a single core CPU, I just don't see Nintendo caring enough about it.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

If they have anything more than a dual-core, modest CPU I would be shocked. I'm totally expecting a single core CPU, I just don't see Nintendo caring enough about it.

I think if they're arrogant enough to believe that they can get away with releasing a unit, less powerful than the last generation of consoles, without another revolutionary breakthrough on other fronts... then they're going to lose all gaming capital made this console cycle, and then some.

After all (if they went with that strategy), they'd be hedging their bets largely on the idea that their competitors won't be copying them (or producing consoles with multiple/flexible input systems).

 

[Log4Girlz]

I think if they're arrogant enough to believe that they can get away with releasing a unit, less powerful than the last generation of consoles, without another revolutionary breakthrough on other fronts... then they're going to lose all gaming capital made this console cycle, and then some.

After all (if they went with that strategy), they'd be hedging their bets largely on the idea that their competitors won't be copying them (or producing consoles with multiple/flexible input systems).

I agree with your point, but they may be thinking "We have all the mindshare among casuals". I would love a multi-core CPU and a modest 2008 vidcard with a gig of ram, but I don't think i'll be getting my wish

 

[camineet]

I hope Nintendo doesn't develop the '3DFX-syndrome', where they constantly release the same thing over & over, just somewhat improved. I'm sure Nintendo won't but there's always the danger of that when you become cocky (Again).


3DFX had a massive hit with the Voodoo Graphics chipset. And another hit with the Voodoo2 based on the same technology only faster. It was a hit, twice. By the time Voodoo3 arrived, 3DFX was being displaced by Nvidia and others. 3DFX failed to release the their next 'revolution', the Rampage based cards.

Nintendo is completely different story, but I hope they stay do that way.

 

[camineet]

So what's the likelihood of Nintendo using CELL in their new system?

Not likely in all probability, but at the same time, it's not by far the most irrational thing they could do.

Yeah not likely, but not completely outside the realm of possibility either.

It's an established platform, it's getting cheaper to produce (by 2011, should be deadset cheap), is a significant evolution over the Wii, has an established developer base, and would probably get good prices on it from IBM/Sony/Toshiba.

I agree, although Nintendo might deem it too complex for their needs. If they did decide to go with something like CELL, they might be better off with Intel's Larrabee. But I also think a small next-gen CELL would be very interesting.

Still, the most likely route is a somewhat-custom CPU based on PowerPC G4 or G5 or POWER5 or POWER6, or whatever. Anything in IBM's roadmap is gonna be automatically faster/stronger/better than what's in GCN & Wii. The Gekko in GCN and Broadway in Wii are both PowerPC G3-based--That's mid-to-late 1990s tech, really. Even the PowerPC G4, one generation beyond what's in GCN & Wii, is still late 1990s tech.

They could even one up the PS3, by providing enough juice to pull off 1080p 60FPS, no tearing consistently (and with enough consistency, mandate it as a requirement for games, so that they can have this sort of thing as a quality benchmark for their brand).\

Yeah that could easily be done with any midrange GPU by 2008 standards, not even highend. The Xenos GPU in 360 and RSX GPU in PS3 are both 2003-2005 tech in consoles released in 2005/2006.

 

[Cosmozone]

If they have anything more than a dual-core, modest CPU I would be shocked. I'm totally expecting a single core CPU, I just don't see Nintendo caring enough about it.

Whatever it takes to support HD on a reasonable basis, probably. It also depends on how long they're planning to continue the current Wii. I'm betting on a dual core right now since they're pretty common, but a single one wouldn't surprise me either. Of course the fanboy in me hopes for a quad but that's pretty much out of the question, should the Wii sucessor be really released in 2011 as rumored. However, the longer they wait they more opportunities they have for low-cost chips. And low-cost is essential.

I can think about a reason why Nintendo would want to make Wii's successor powerful: To get third party support. The Wii was pretty much abandoned by third parties, and probably only because of the low specs. Iwata said he expected this to some extent but I think he gravely underestimated the resulting problems. Having a console that has merely "enough" power scared away both graphics lovers (who are still an important segment of the market) and more importantly developers/deciders. The psychological effect is pretty huge as we have seen. The Wii got a huge backlash from fanboys and developers for being underpowered. For Wii's successor to fly with third parties, it must at least powerful enough that game companies say: "Well, this machine is pretty powerful. I'm sure we can make an action-blockbuster with it without wasting too much time with the graphics engine".

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I like to think that the reason the Wii's hardware was so outdated was because of the whole GameCube boner they had in the previous generation. I'm sure with their lack of success of the Purple Lunchbox, they didn't have a great deal of money to spend on manufacturing state-of-the-art processor and graphics chips and had to rely on innovation to sell the Wii. Now that they have more money than God, I'd hope they wouldn't mind pouring some of that fat cash into giving us cutting-edge graphics.

Then again, the fact that the DSi exists pretty much counters that theory.

 

[camineet]

Whatever it takes to support HD on a reasonable basis, probably. It also depends on how long they're planning to continue the current Wii. I'm betting on a dual core right now since they're pretty common, but a single one wouldn't surprise me either. Of course the fanboy in me hopes for a quad but that's pretty much out of the question, should the Wii sucessor be really released in 2011 as rumored. However, the longer they wait they more opportunities they have for low-cost chips. And low-cost is essential.

I can think about a reason why Nintendo would want to make Wii's successor powerful: To get third party support. The Wii was pretty much abandoned by third parties, and probably only because of the low specs. Iwata said he expected this to some extent but I think he gravely underestimated the resulting problems. Having a console that has merely "enough" power scared away both graphics lovers (who are still an important segment of the market) and more importantly developers/deciders. The psychological effect is pretty huge as we have seen. The Wii got a huge backlash from fanboys and developers for being underpowered. For Wii's successor to fly with third parties, it must at least powerful enough that game companies say: "Well, this machine is pretty powerful. I'm sure we can make an action-blockbuster with it without wasting too much time with the graphics engine".

Nintendo could've tripled the CPU & GPU power of Wii (thus 4.5x the power of GCN) and still have been shunned by third party developers for low specs. A Wii of even that performance would've still been well below 360 & PS3, and not even as close to 360/PS3 as GCN was to PS2/Xbox1.

So if (a big IF right now) Nintendo does come out with a reasonably powerful console by 2011 standards (while still being low-cost), if it is even half as powerful as what XB3/PS4 might be if those consoles are a generational leap beyond 360/PS3, the next Wii would then, of course, be an extrodanary leap beyond the present Wii. Moreso than the leap from NES to SNES or N64 to GCN. Like I said, big if. Nintendo could pull a literal Wii+, a slightly better than present-Wii-level machine that outputs in HD, be far short of current 360/PS3 and sell a shitload of units.

 

[Cosmozone]

Nintendo could've tripled the CPU & GPU power of Wii (thus 4.5x the power of GCN) and still have been shunned by third party developers for low specs.

Well, I'd not be so sure about that. People were already getting over Wii not being HD (at least on this forum). And there were still many people not even having an HD capable TV set after all. A powerful SD machine could've worked better with everybody. Churn out some demos that surpass wallguy and you've even got a psychological advantage. But of course, that's all speculation.

 

[camineet]

Well, I'd not be so sure about that. People were already getting over Wii not being HD (at least on this forum). And there were still many people not even having an HD capable TV set after all. A powerful SD machine could've worked better with everybody. Churn out some demos that surpass wallguy and you've even got a psychological advantage. But of course, that's all speculation.

Well, what you're saying is absolutely true, I agree with you, I was just saying that in general, Nintendo could've come out with something more powerful than they did, and still be rejected, at least up until now. Now that Wii has proven not only success, but sustainability in sales, most 3rd party developers are going to be forced to support it.

 

[camineet]

First there was Wii HD

Now there's a Wii HDD


http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/10/heres_what_a_wii_with_a_hdd_looks_like-2.html

I can't wait to hear about the Wii-HD-HDD :lol

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Look, I am all for a quad-core CPU, and each core being capable of more than 2 threads, say 4 threads per core, 16 threads total, thus totally out-gunning Xenon and even out doing CELL as far as total threads.

Modern GPUs with their stream processors can compartmentalise parts to do physics and other stuff. There's probably no need for Nintendo to go anything better than a dual-core CPU if the GPU can take care of all the graphics and physics options.

 

[camineet]

Modern GPUs with their stream processors can compartmentalise parts to do physics and other stuff. There's probably no need for Nintendo to go anything better than a dual-core CPU if the GPU can take care of all the graphics and physics options.

Yeah, a strong dual-core should easily be enough, especially if each core is 1 or 2 PowerPC-generation(s) beyond the G3/750 base that both Gekko & Broadway use. Even 2 PowerPC-gens beyond G3/750 would put the tech at, roughly the early-to-middle of this decade.

 

[camineet]

What would be really sweet is if Wii HD used a single or dual core POWER6. Even scaled-down POWER6 would offer a phenomenal increase in power, while still being no newer than current-tech. And with 32nm or 22nm manufacturing tech, what was a large die could be very small. On the other hand, Nintendo wouldn't need such a beefcake of a CPU, if the GPU is capable of handling physics, like you said.

 

[camineet]

Miyamoto on Wii HD rumors

We are working in terms of the changes of technology all the time.

Come on Miyamoto-san, say something.

Funny, he said more about HD 2+ years ago around E3 2006.

It was aaaages ago, I think before the 9700. I forget whether it was a magazine article or online, but they only gave a guess as to the complexity of the next chip, no indication that they had indeed started work. Having said that, I would imagine they at least started some preliminary work, and the rights would be in Nintendo's hands.

Interesting. I haven't looked yet but i'll try googling & yahooing for info on it later today.

 

[Rolf NB]

Power 6? Quad cores with 4-way SMT? Nintendo's hardware philosophy is low cost you buffoons.

They'll pull a DS and at most plunk down for an assymmetric dual core, consisting of the current Gecko variant for bc, with possibly a clock bump for new native software, plus one other CPU core that architectually might harken from this decade. Then one chip of memory, with whatever capacity is available at the time. And that'll be that.
Don't expect anything but an incrementally clock-bumped Flipper either. They didn't even bother increasing the Wii eDRAM to enable isomporphic widescreen for crying out loud.

 

[camineet]

Power 6? Quad cores with 4-way SMT? Nintendo's hardware philosophy is low cost you buffoons.

They'll pull a DS and at most plunk down for an assymmetric dual core, consisting of the current Gecko variant for bc, with possibly a clock bump for new native software, plus one other CPU core that architectually might harken from this decade. Then one chip of memory, with whatever capacity is available at the time. And that'll be that.
Don't expect anything but an incrementally clock-bumped Flipper either. They didn't even bother increasing the Wii eDRAM to enable isomporphic widescreen for crying out loud.

a single-core or dual-core POWER6 would be reasonable for a Nintendo console in 2011 or 2012 given that POWER6 is technology from the middle of this current decade. The Gekko used in GameCube is IBM technology from the mid-late 1990s. I don't think they'll go quad-core, but i can understand people thinking it could happen given that next-gen Sony Microsoft consoles will use manycore CPUs with anywhere from 16 to 64 cores.

 

[camineet]

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/rumour-wii-2-is-still-infrared-479745

Rumour: Wii 2 is sticking with infrared
According to Nintendo's manufacturing sources



According to sources at Nintendo's manufacturing partners, Wii 2 is sticking with infrared motion-control technology.

DigiTimes reports that, according to unnamed sources, Nintendo's 'next-generation Wii' will use the same infared technology as the current console does.

"Pixart Imaging (PXI) will start sampling MEMS chips for the the Wii gaming device with Nintendo beginning in the fourth quarter, according to industry sources," reports DigiTimes.

Competitive challenger

Pixart is said to "bring a competitive challenge to Analog Devices (ADI) and STMicroelectronics," who currently supply Nintendo with its MEMS chips for the Wii.

"PXI… should also be able to continue supplying infrared solutions to Nintendo for any next-generation Wii device, as infrared sensors will still be used for positioning," DigiTimes sources noted.
By Adam Hartley

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The motion detection already isn't infra-red, and I'm not sure how else one would do the pointer?

 

[rezuth]

I still think Microsoft & Sony will release next-gen consoles with
*moderate CPU upgrade
(2x to 5x more CPU power thus much smaller than the shift from last-gen to current-gen)
*large graphic upgrade
( 10x or more, thus, more than the shift from last-gen to current-gen. It's not as crazy as it sounds. Now that developers have done HD for a generation, increasing the graphics again but NOT the resolution won't massively increase the budget for artwork. everything can be based on current gen, just MORE detail, better framerates, better lighting.
*large RAM upgrade (8x if not 16x)
* control interface beyond Wii Remote + Motion Plus, but not much beyond.

Nintendo will go their own way, focus on highest profit for themselves. Improve Wii Remote interface, not revolutionize it again, but it'll be better than what Sony & Microsoft offer. Nintendo will have a large hardware (CPU, GPU, RAM) upgrade but only in comparison to GCN & Wii, not based on what Sony & Microsoft do. Will still be trailing edge, but not as far behind techwise as Wii is this gen. Nintendo should not only go for 720p, but also 1080p. There's no point in a Wii HD that's only good at 720p. Nintendo will do HD right. That'll require more GPU power than 360 & PS3 combined, but only upto 2008 level technology, and use the 3 or 4 years from now until 2011 or 2012 to cost reduce like mad. They'll have another great cost/performance chip. Nintendo will make money on the hardware once again, not bleed money.

So you think that the next Xbox will have 4 or 8GB of RAM? No way, max 2GB.

 

[Jocchan]

I'm guessing the article is mixing up two different news, the first one being PXI starting supplying accelerometers and the second one being PXI keeping supplying the infrared sensors they already supply.
I'm not even sure they're talking about Wii2 or WiiHD or whatever...

 

[Hero]

People are really expecting PS4/Xbox 3 in 2011?

One thing I'm pretty sure Sony and Microsoft have learned is that just because you're packing the most powerful machine or the best graphics doesn't mean you're going to sell the most software or hardware. I seriously doubt that PS4 or Xbox 3 will offer any significant upgrades to visuals/graphics. If anything, they're desperately trying to develop motion techology for next generation, which is a lot harder than throwing money at R&D to put powerful guts inside a system.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

This is pretty 'DUH'. And reggie is still a megadouche.

As for hardware cycles, stretch them out to give developers a chance to make good games! Just fix the 360 so they don't break so much.

 

[camineet]

People are really expecting PS4/Xbox 3 in 2011?

In fall 2011 or 2012.

Xbox 360 will be 6 years old by in 2011, 7 years in 2012
PS3 will be 5 years in 2011, 6 years in 2012.

One thing I'm pretty sure Sony and Microsoft have learned is that just because you're packing the most powerful machine or the best graphics doesn't mean you're going to sell the most software or hardware. I seriously doubt that PS4 or Xbox 3 will offer any significant upgrades to visuals/graphics. If anything, they're desperately trying to develop motion techology for next generation, which is a lot harder than throwing money at R&D to put powerful guts inside a system.

I think Xbox 3 and PS4 will both over significant upgrades to visuals/graphics, otherwise there wouldn't be much point to having the new consoles. If all it's about is just motion controls and cheaper prices, they could simply release new controllers for the current 360/PS3 and lower the prices with new cheaper, slimmer, low-power consumption models.

It wouldn't cost much to add 4870X2 or GTX280 level graphics to Xbox3/PS4. Those GPUs are already a major leap beyond 360/PS3. By 2011 or 2012 those GPUs will be very old and completely outdated and not good enough for next-gen consoles (except for Wii HD) I don't know why Sony & Microsoft would offer less graphics advancement than what current 2008 PC tech offers. Unless Sony & Microsoft are going down the same path as Nintendo did with Wii. I don't think they'll go down the exact same path. They might take some lessions from Wii by not charging $399 to $599, probably back down to earth at $299. Even with that price, it should be more than possible to have a significant graphics upgrade. I mean how the heck did the 2 previous generations of consoles from 1994 to 2001 offer such big leaps forward in graphics at prices that were $199 to $299 ?

Gamers, Publishers and Developers are all going to expect graphics take a major leap forward early in the next decade, to something that looks more like offline prerendered CG. It would be really sad if Xbox3/PS4 were only like 360/PS3+

 

[Turrican3]

I think Xbox 3 and PS4 will both over significant upgrades to visuals/graphics, otherwise there wouldn't be much point to having the new consoles. If all it's about is just motion controls and cheaper prices, they could simply release new controllers for the current 360/PS3 and lower the prices with new cheaper, slimmer, low-power consumption models.

I don't know, this has been said various times when talking about Nintendo's strategy with the Wii (many people thought it could have been easier to simply release a GC controller/add-on) and I believe this wouldn't have worked.

IMHO Wii is an extraordinary combination of HW, software and marketing. The inclusion of Wii Sports surely was a winning one, but so was the wiimote; I mean, it's the good-old add-ons dilemma: if you bundle the controller with the HW every publisher on Earth knows that every console owner has the same configuration. If you sell the controller as a standalone add-on you have to deal with a completely different strategy. That may, or may not work.

I also have to say that Wii is IMHO aesthetically far more... "professional looking" than the GC, which basically looked like a toy, especially the violet one.

Going back to the topic, I think it's very, very difficult to predict what the next generation consoles will end up to be: will Nintendo invest money trying to make Wii2 as powerful as PS4/X720, more or less? Unlikely IMHO, considering how careful Mr. Iwata is about maximizing profits and minimizing risks... but not impossible, at least in theory.
But then it also comes the next question: will Sony and Microsoft, in turn, follow Nintendo trying to make innovations by introducing different controllers instead of going the traditional, "brute force" route?

We'll see...

 

[kinggroin]

I'd like the next Wii to be on level with the 360/ps3 performance wise.


I expect Nintendo to release a moderately upgraded Wii successor with just enough muscle to output at 720p or 1080p(upscaled). Games will look more or less like high end Wii or PS2 games, just in HD (imagine those emulator shots of Final Fantasy XII, but running on your tv).

meh.


Whatever they do on the hardware end, I'm only there day one if the software is.

 

[Azure J]

Hey, I just had a thought. Moving past the Processor/Graphics Card/RAM talk for a second, how does everyone think that they are going to revise the overall setup and user friendliness of the Wii2/HD next generation? One idea that I think would work wonders would be an internal sensor bar like device as opposed to the semi-clunky method of sensors now.

As for specific console specs, I think I posted some a while back in the thread, but overall, I think at most we could be looking at some of the spec numbers we saw around the speculations for the "Revolution" i.e.

Rumors abound indicated that Nintendo could separately be working on two systems and that ultimately one would be chosen for retail. System 1 allegedly featured a 2.7GHz PowerPC G5 processor, 512MBs of RAM, and a 600MHz graphics chip. System 2 allegedly featured dual 1.8GHz PowerPC G5 processors. 256MBs of DDR Main Memory RAM, 128MBs of GDDR3 Video RAM and a 500MHz graphics chip. Both systems allegedly featured a built in 15GB hard drive. As of this time, these rumors cannot be validated.

Except swap in some of the newer (As of 2008) tech available from each company and maaaybe an increase here and there for RAM.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'd like the next Wii to be on level with the 360/ps3 performance wise.


I expect Nintendo to release a moderately upgraded Wii successor with just enough muscle to output at 720p or 1080p(upscaled). Games will look more or less like high end Wii or PS2 games, just in HD (imagine those emulator shots of Final Fantasy XII, but running on your tv).

meh.


Whatever they do on the hardware end, I'm only there day one if the software is.

It's Nintendo. I think a lot of us will be there day one.

 

[diffusionx]

Gamers, Publishers and Developers are all going to expect graphics take a major leap forward early in the next decade, to something that looks more like offline prerendered CG. It would be really sad if Xbox3/PS4 were only like 360/PS3+

That's what is gonna happen, more or less, so just get ready for it. There is no way Sony and Microsoft will again go down the path of building $800-$900 machines and selling them for $400. Not with Nintendo doing what they did. Both Sony and MS would trade places with N in a second. Considering some people are saying the economy still may be sluggish even in 2011, it would be crazy for Sony and MS to build that type of machine and business model again.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't think the next systems will be a big leap forward. I do. I except them to be comparable to what a very very nice PC built in late 2009 would be. Obviously that will not be the type of advancement we got from 360 (which was like a very very nice PC built in 2005 when it came out in 2005), but it will be respectable. We won't get prerendered CG. But we will get great, better than current-console graphics at 1080p and 60fps. At least, I hope. I really hope.

 

[Black-Wind]

That's what is gonna happen, more or less, so just get ready for it. There is no way Sony and Microsoft will again go down the path of building $800-$900 machines and selling them for $400. Not with Nintendo doing what they did. Both Sony and MS would trade places with N in a second. Considering some people are saying the economy still may be sluggish even in 2011, it would be crazy for Sony and MS to build that type of machine and business model again.

I have to agree greatly with this.

Fans seem to think that MS/ Sony care about the "hardcore" after hearing people from both these companies make asses remarks about the Wii. Its actually more like Sony only cares about pushing it's format and MS only cares about making Sony the new Sega of gaming to stop the PS brand (which was there reason for getting into the console race from the start).

They are not going to do things the same as this gen when it comes to power. I expect MS to jump on the motion controller weagon and jump start the next gen by being the first by a year in 2010 ( to help insure the XBox selling more than the PS4 and to gain those JRPGs early again). Power wise, IDK what they will do. Could be "2x more powerful than before" or w/e. I don't expect a "we are 3 TIMES MORE POWERFUL THAN THE PS3!!!!" from the Xbox 3.

Sony . . . I see them clearly going for a "2x more powerful" system as their rumor states. They can't afford to keep telling the buyer to "get a 2nd job" to get the money to buy their console. If they keep making the $1000 console just to sell it for $600 than they will surely become the next Sega . . . but they will stop making game all together seeing as they aren't a gaming company.
But who knows. . . maybe they will keep on this road towards becoming the new Sega by selling their over priced console at a lost.

 

[Ranger X]

The current HD consoles are somewhat out of balance IMO. They have powerful complex CPUs, but got short changed in graphics. Moreso the PS3.

I think they thought this gen would be an AI revolution, that it really is CPU power that would matter. Of course they were wrong. We need more MEMORY god damned it. This gen is last gen in better graphics, devellopers won't suddendly hire hundreds of new AI programmer and invest into making truly complex stuff. It doesn't bring sales in their books.

 

[kiUNiT]

three more years of 480i ? May God help us all.

 

[camineet]

three more years of 480i ? May God help us all.

3 or 4 years. While 2011 is a pretty likely year for the release of the next-gen Wii, I would not at all be surprised if it comes in 2012.

I think this current-gen will last a year or so longer than last-gen, depending on which console you're talking about.

last-gen to current gen
Microsoft: 4 years
Sony: 5.5 to 6 years
Nintendo: 5 years

current-gen to next-gen guess:
Microsoft: 6 or 7 years
Sony: 6 years
Nintendo: 5 or 6 years

 

[Bluemercury]

Any news on the inphase thing???

 

[Eteric Rice]

Any news on the inphase thing???

The what? Did I miss something?

 

[camineet]

I think they thought this gen would be an AI revolution, that it really is CPU power that would matter. Of course they were wrong. We need more MEMORY god damned it. This gen is last gen in better graphics, devellopers won't suddendly hire hundreds of new AI programmer and invest into making truly complex stuff. It doesn't bring sales in their books.

Agreed.

Microsoft & Sony thought this gen would be about much better AI, Physics and HD resolution.
Memory got a significant upgrade, from 32-64 MB to 512 MB, but that was not really enough. I thought back in 2002-2004 that next-gen (which is now current gen) should've had 1 GB, and that the following -gen (XB3, PS4) should be 16 GB. Now with current-gen being 512 MB, I am only expecting 2 to 4 GB for next-gen, that's only 4 to 8 times more. The graphics that 360/PS3 do, are like improved Xbox1 graphics in HD, and often with lower framerates if you take the average framerates of all games. We had more 60fps games last-gen compared to this gen. very dissapointing.

I would like next-gen console graphics to be either native 720p or native 1080p (or 1080i), with 40-50% being 60fps and 50-60% being 30fps. No games should ever be below 30fps, and the ones that are 30fps should have alot of motion blurring to help make up for it. Graphical complexity/quality needs to go beyond the texture-mapped pixel-shaded, low-AA look of current games. Graphics really did not make a generational leap from last-gen to this-gen. I don't concider PS2/GCN/Xbox to 360/PS3 a generation leap in visuals, only a significant improvement and with overall worse framrates.

Think about what can be done with GTX 280 triple SLI and 4870X2 Crossfire. Nevermind the fact that much of the graphics horsepower being wasted in the PC environment because of the many bottlenecks of PC architecture, bloated Windows XP/Vista OS, developers aiming at hundreds of different hardware configurations and moving targets.
Take all of that away. If there was a closed box, fixed spec console with 3x GTX280 or 2x 4870X2, and developers took advantage of it, the results would be a near-generational leap beyond 360/PS3. Now think about at least 3 years of GPU advancement behind the current highend PC GPUs. You could have a huge generational leap forward, like PS1 to Xbox1.

I don't buy into the idea of diminishing returns. I would only believe in that if silicon was not advancing very much, but it is. Diminishing returns can only be argued from a developer-cost perspective, and because current consoles are not using highend state-of-the-art GPU tech this gen. During the PS1/N64 & DC/PS2/GCN/Xbox1 gens, console providers were using near state-of-the art graphics tech. I would hope that next-gen returns to that tradition. People often say, well we can't go beyond 1080p and we're already there (with a few games) this gen. Well resolution is a totally seperate thing.
It would be possible to have prerendered CGI-like graphics (or close to it) in realtime @ 480i, and the actual graphics would blow away any 720p/1080p game on 360/PS3 or PC. How is that possible? Play PC Crysis on a highend PC at 60fps with 8x or 16x AA, highest quality but in low resolution, 640x480 or whatever, and compare that to any 360/PS3 game. Crysis would blow away higher res HD console games. Now that that a step further with newer future GPU tech, and a newer game developed to take advantage of it, but again run it at SD resolution, it would blow away any PC game running at higher-than-1080p.


Next-gen consoles need to offer:
*new next-gen controller / control scheme / interface, beyond Wii Remote + MotionPlus
*much better physics processing that's beyond what current CELL can do. Manycore CPUs and GPGPUs will/can split this workload
*60fps in more game, and all 30fps games never dip below 30fps
*1080p native res in more games, minimum native 720p, no sub 720p games
*more AA: 8x or 16x for 720p games - 4x or 8x for 1080p games
*higher complexity models: several 100K to 1-2M polys instead of 5K to 50K-100K
*much better lighting models
*bigger leap in texture-mapping and shaders
*more post processing to simulate the look of CG
*more RAM (2-4 GB but preferably 8 GB) of much higher bandwidth with 256-bit bus (hundreds of GB/sec) and lower latency
*more embedded RAM (24-64 MB) for extremely high bandwidth (TB/sec)
*$299 base price, no higher than $399 for the upper-end SKUs (thus no $499/$599 SKUs)
*solid-state game media storage, no high-cost optical drives. cheaper/faster mass storage, better solution than harddrives
*reliable hardware that doesn't break down


All of that sounds like it would have to cost $500 to $1000 but it does not. much of the R&D cost of the chipsets/guts will have been done by the CPU & GPU makers (IBM, AMD/ATI, Nvidia). The amount of RAM is in line with previous generational increases. The main costs would be the new controllers and a solid-state alternative to optical disk drive, but less than a next-gen optical drive like HVD. If Microsoft and Sony really try to develop true next-gen consoles as they did with the PS1 and PS2/Xbox generations, there is no reason why a major generational leap cannot happen for machines costing $299 (or $399 max with all the bells & whistles!).

 

[Azure J]

The what? Did I miss something?

1.) InPhase Technology creates Holographic discs that have a 300GB - 1TB range of space.
2.) Nintendo is highly intrigued by this and invests heavily into this new tech
3.) Company then proceeds to go into hiding, their main web page is completely and ominously blank.
4.) ???
5.) Possible Nintendo profit.

I think that's the gist of it.

 

[boutrosinit]

Sweet! Virtual reality pastel shaded gaming before the Mayans say we die. WOOT!

 

[camineet]

Sweet! Virtual reality pastel shaded gaming before the Mayans say we die. WOOT!

:lol