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Rescuers drop sick grandma into -3C waters during transport

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Kinitari said:
That's not quite how it works - for one thing, you need to include salt into the equation, this isn't pure water.
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Aah, yes, that's true. I hadn't thought about that factor.


kottila said:
Plus it moves around.
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Well yes, but doesn't movement generate heath? In that way, streaming water (without salt) would always be above 0 C.
 
Tha Robbertster said:
Aah, yes, that's true. I hadn't thought about that factor.



Well yes, but doesn't movement generate heath? In that way, streaming water (without salt) would always be above 0 C.
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You know I am not 100% about it, but as far as I understand, the movement makes it harder for the water to form the molecular bonds that create ice, I'll look into now cause I am curious.

Also I remember reading once that the pressure of the ocean actually has the opposite effect on water, where with most things, the pressure helps 'hold things still' thus allowing things to freeze above their regular freezing point, with water, it doesn't work that way.
 
Tha Robbertster said:
Well yes, but doesn't movement generate heath? In that way, streaming water (without salt) would always be above 0 C.
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You can have purely distilled water at 0C that's not frozen, water needs a "seed" to freeze around (dirt, an edge), and when the water moves around in the middle of a open ocean, you won't get that. That's why rivers/lakes/oceans freeze from the edge
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
What was she originally taken off the boat for? Is her current condition directly related to her time in the ocean?
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Internal bleeding and her deterioration has been linked to her being dropped in. Also, I've seen she was in for 4, not 8 minutes (Sky News TV).

A person in seas of a temp around -3C should be able to survive under 5 minutes, but between 5-15 minutes death can very frequently occur. Over 15 minutes and they will, to a certain extent, abandon hope (RAF dude on Sky News). This, however may not be the case for this lady as she can be seen in the pictures as being left with very little clothing in the sea.

It doesn't look great for her.
 
You're as cold as ice
You're willing to sacrifice our love

You never take advice
Someday you'll pay the price, I know

I've seen it before, it happens all the time
(Oooh-oooh) You're closing the door, you leave the world behind
You're digging for gold, you're throwing away
(Aaah-aaah) A fortune in feelings, but someday you'll pay

You're as cold as ice
You're willing to sacrifice our love

You want paradise
But someday you'll pay the price, I know

I've seen it before, (oooh-oooh) it happens all the time
(Oooh-oooh) You're closing the door, you leave the world behind
You're digging for gold, (aaah-aaah) you're throwing away
(Aaah-aaah) A fortune in feelings, but someday you'll pay

(Cold as ice) You know that you are
(Cold-cold, As-as ice) As cold as ice to me
(Cold-cold-cold, As-as-as ice)

(Ooh-ooh-ooh) (Cold as, cold as I-I ice) (You're as cold ice) yes
(Cold as ice) You're as cold as ice, cold as ice, I know
(Cold as ice) (Cold as, cold as ice) Yes I know
(Cold as ice) (Cold as, cold as ice) You're as cold as ice, cold as ice, I know
(Cold as ice) (Cold as, cold as ice) Oh yes I know
(Cold as ice) (Cold as, cold as ice) You're as cold as ice, cold as ice, I know
(Cold as ice) (Cold as, cold as ice) Oh yes I know
(Cold as ice) (Cold as, cold as ice) You're as cold as ice, you're as cold as ice, I know (to fade out)
 
Tha Robbertster said:
How can the water be -3 C, shouldn't it be ice by then?
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it's the ocean. Salt and other shit makes its freezing point different. also, the entire ocean wouldn't be frozen, freezing point depends on pressure and volume too :)
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
I can't believe it took eight minutes to get her with all of them right there when it happened.
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Rescuing someone from the water is very very dangerous.
 
Man, this thread got worse and worse as I read. =/

Old people are awesome. Hope she makes it out alright.
 
Neuromancer said:
That's very sad. It's not like they did it on purpose though. I'm sure they were doing the best they could.
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nah, they didn't. They took shortcuts because they were complacent by:

1) Not using a helicopter (standard procedure in the UK)
2) Not coming to a complete standstill to do the transfer
3) Not just ushering them into port, they were only 2 miles out

As a result this poor old woman died. I hope there is a robust investigation and those responsible are punished.
 
peterb0y said:
Hope pun-age is happy... damn thats sad
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Yeah, I'm sure they're dancing in the streets. :-/

Awful series of events. Hope that any negligent parties are held accountable.


nah, they didn't. They took shortcuts because they were complacent by:

1) Not using a helicopter (standard procedure in the UK)
2) Not coming to a complete standstill to do the transfer
3) Not just ushering them into port, they were only 2 miles out

As a result this poor old woman died. I hope there is a robust investigation and those responsible are punished.
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Nooo charles, get out of my head!
 
Meadows said:
nah, they didn't. They took shortcuts because they were complacent by:

1) Not using a helicopter (standard procedure in the UK)
2) Not coming to a complete standstill to do the transfer
3) Not just ushering them into port, they were only 2 miles out

As a result this poor old woman died. I hope there is a robust investigation and those responsible are punished.
Click to expand...
Yeah I doubt anything will come of it. Accidents happen. Are you 100% sure they violated policy and procedure in any way?
 
Neuromancer said:
Yeah I doubt anything will come of it. Accidents happen. Are you 100% sure they violated policy and procedure in any way?
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I'm no expert on Norwegian Coastguard procedural policy, but a hunch tells me moving an ill 73 year old woman from a moving ship onto a moving (and very small) coastguard boat without any helicopter back up is violating policy.

And you know, the whole dropping a seriously ill 73 y.o. in -3C water for 5 minutes thing too.
 
What is it called when you put water in a freezer / cold environment, but it doesn't freeze until the water is moved? (Kinda like opposite of microwaving water then moving it and the water getting violent.)
 
Sad way to die. You go on a cruise you always wanted to go onto, get sick, get dropped in icy cold water, die at hospital. Life is dumb.
 
Neuromancer said:
Yeah I doubt anything will come of it. Accidents happen. Are you 100% sure they violated policy and procedure in any way?
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I'd like to know that as well, because shit happens. It doesn't matter how many precautions and procedures you have. Horrible story thought... :(
 
I don't know what's standard procedure or what should have been done, I just wonder if maneuvering two large boats together in the open seas might be better done at speed to give them some stability and manueverabilty rather than just bobbing next to each other and being at the complete mercy of the currents.
 
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