Support NeoGAF

[Sectus]

Now that you mention it that's definitely understandable.
Since it did seem the weaker aspects of both games were when they were trying to cater to the other side.
Just sucks that there just doesn't seem to be a sure fire path to take. The franchise going forward I can't see pleasing everyone. At least not in the sense of this isn't scary enough and the like. I guess the most Capcom can hope for is to make a great game and have that be all that people care about even if its more action or vice versa. I mean in a way that's basically what RE4 did. Don't recall much backlash until recently about it not being scary.

Maybe it's not as big, but there's a vocal group of RE fans who despise RE4 because of what it did to the series.

The RE fanbase is all over the place when thinking about it. There's the old school fans who want a game like the original games, there's the RE4 fans who well, I don't know what they want to be honest, since many of them hate RE5 despite it being extremely similar to RE4, then there's fans of most modern RE games, then there's the two guys who are fans of Operation Raccoon City, and then there's the small rational bunch of fans who like any type of RE game as long as it's fun.

I just don't see Capcom making a game which can satisfy most of those people. They should just aim for something specific and do their best job with that. I think making multiple games at the same time with a very different direction would have been a good idea, but they probably won't allocate the budget for that now.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Maybe it's not as big, but there's a vocal group of RE fans who despise RE4 because of what it did to the series.

The RE fanbase is all over the place when thinking about it. There's the old school fans who want a game like the original games, there's the RE4 fans who well, I don't know what they want to be honest, since many of them hate RE5 despite it being extremely similar to RE4, then there's fans of most modern RE games, then there's the two guys who are fans of Operation Raccoon City, and then there's the small rational bunch of fans who like any type of RE game as long as it's fun.

I just don't see Capcom making a game which can satisfy most of those people. They should just aim for something specific and do their best job with that. I think making multiple games at the same time with a very different direction would have been a good idea, but they probably won't allocate the budget for that now.

Yeah I can't think of any franchise with so many diverse fans like RE. What you suggest is the best route though.
If anything maybe hitting other types of gameplay should be reserved for DLC or standalone download titles. That way it isn't as big on their budget but can still offer things for others.

 

[Yasae]

Resident Evil 4 was the perfect hybrid. Besides the over the shoulder camera, what did it do that was so amazingly original?

Nothin!

 

[MrPressStart]

I would love to see a remake of the first one. Maybe even carry it over and put 1, 2 and 3 together into one big story. Somehow, as it moved to 4, 5 and 6 (even tho 4 was awesome)... it lost some of what made it so great.. that haunted house confined space type feel.

 

[ArtHands]

Another resident evil revelations

 

[LSauchelli]

A reboot set in the mansion, with Revelations-like controls. Should do the trick, right?

If that fails, just let the franchise sleep and revive Dino Crisis instead.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Resident Evil 4 was the perfect hybrid. Besides the over the shoulder camera, what did it do that was so amazingly original?

Nothin!

You mean original to the series or original to the genre? Because introducing attache case, merchant, treasure hunting and upgrading weapons, melee attacks were quite revolutionary for RE series. Not to mention, replacing zombies with slightly more intelligent enemies equipped with weapons.

 

[R_thanatos]

i have to agree on :

5: Tone Down The Gunplay. More Melee Encounters

Code veronica was the only RE were the knife was really usefull. RE4 knife was alright but Leon backflip kick was better.

 

[Retro_]

Resident Evil 4 was the perfect hybrid. Besides the over the shoulder camera, what did it do that was so amazingly original?

Nothin!

My favorite thing about it was how the in game economy worked not only in the decision making that forced on the player(can't upgrade and buy everything on a single playthrough, or even most things) but also in how the treasure system rewarded game knowledge with more resources.

That combined with how the inventory system worked made fresh playthroughs of the game more fun than NG+. Which is rare for an action game.

The games that followed RE4 weren't anywhere near as good in that regard, but they made up for it with more developed game mechanics and options and of course, being designed for Co-Op.

People say The Evil Within will be a return to RE4 quality, but without the economy working the way it did in that game I don't buy it.( I don't agree with people that say RE4 was more "atmospheric" or whatever than the latest two. That's not why it was good to me) I don't think we'll ever see a big budget action game with RE4's type of economy and upgrade design again.

Which is fine because RE4 still exists and I can replay it anytime I want. Give me new shit I'm not getting rid of my old. Keep the Co-Op flowin'.

 

[Yasae]

My favorite thing about it was how the in game economy worked not only in the decision making that forced on the player(can't upgrade and buy everything on a single playthrough, or even most things) but also in how the treasure system rewarded game knowledge with more resources.

That combined with how the inventory system worked made fresh playthroughs of the game more fun than NG+. Which is rare for an action game.

The games that followed RE4 weren't anywhere near as good in that regard, but they made up for it with more developed game mechanics and options and of course, being designed for Co-Op.

People say The Evil Within will be a return to RE4 quality, but without the economy working the way it did in that game I don't buy it.( I don't agree with people that say RE4 was more "atmospheric" or whatever than the latest two. That's not why it was good to me) I don't think we'll ever see a big budget action game with RE4's type of economy and upgrade design again.

Which is fine because RE4 still exists and I can replay it anytime I want. Give me new shit I'm not getting rid of my old. Keep the Co-Op flowin'.

Yeah, and for these reasons it's become the de facto TPS. They can't make any of the old games nor can they make an RE4 clone. Capcom is creatively bankrupt in this regard.

 

[Retro_]

I wouldn't say that.

I liked the forced co-op in 5, something most publishers find it hard to commit to on console

and I liked the ideas behind the melee system and rolls in RE6. Game just lacked the focus to really highlight those ideas through its game content

and that's just RE. I think there's alot of creativity going on in their other franchises as well that people are copying. Like Devil Bringer in DMC4, SF4's success in scaling back the complexity of the franchise, and fucking Monster Hunter. There's also been some really cool new franchises to come out of them as well with Dead Rising and Dragon's Dogma.(and Lost Planet until 3) Not to mention the excellent PC ports of some of their biggest games. (Capcom was one of the first publishers to support steam in a big way. Waaaaay before Bamco started giving a shit about the platform)

There's alot of talent still at Capcom and despite some pretty big missteps, there's been alot of good in their output this gen as well. If management can learn from their mistakes and better channel that talent next gen, I'll still have alot of interest in the output of the company. They're still the only Japanese publisher worth caring about right now besides Nintendo to me. (I think Bamco has been far more anti-consumer this gen than Capcom, with alot less creativity and quality in their output)

 

[Fabrik]

All I know is that The Evil Within is not the direction it should take IMO. I feel the genre is becoming niche.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Get rid of the over-the-top, terribly voiced enemies that populate the franchise. Resident Evil's voice acting was tolerable in a world where most games had laughable voice overs, but the world of video game voice actors has advanced greatly.

 

[The Frankman]

I felt RE4 did a nice job of using backtracking, then they used it a bit too much.

 

[nbthedude]

I'm biased but I want to see more Jill Valentine.

Personally there are two ways I would like to see RE7 go, both of which are at different extremes:

1. Continue down the path that RE6 took and turn RE7 into a balls-to-the-wall third person shooter with ridiculous movement mechanics and enemies that require dodging/rolling/countering to defeat. RE6 had a highly engaging and rewarding combat system and I would love to see it vastly fleshed out in RE7.

OR

2. Go back to what made REmake so fucking good and give us limited ammo, limited supplies, enemies that take multiple shots to kill, and a large open area with multiple locked doors and minimal to no hints of where to go next to progress. The beauty of this formula is that it forces you to explore in order to progress, but it also makes you afraid to explore because you're low on supplies and enemies are not easy to take down.


In my opinion, Capcom needs to choose one extreme or the other and fully commit to it, because while I loved RE6, I felt that its weakness was the fact that it was trying to be all things to all people. You're going to piss off a huge number of people either way Capcom, so just pick one approach and commit.

Totally agreed. I ended up liking RE6 but its weakness was definitely in trying to do all things it lacked the polish it should have had.

While i think the set of mechanics they created make for a highly unique action game, it takes some serious getting used to and alot of people aren't patient enough when the game LOOKS like it should play like every other 3rd person shooter.

I think their best solution is just to reboot the series, keep more traditional controls, but raise the stakes: more fragile protagonists that die in only a few hits, more intimidating enemies that force you to retreat/run.

Set it in the mansion. But no more slow fucking zombies. That isn't going to work with modern control schemes. You need three types of enemies to intimidate: 1) Fast enemies, 2) Strong enemies 3) Smart enemies. Cackling demons that turn off the lights on you and toy with your expectations. Chameleons that hide in the environment and behind doors. Big ass chain saw wielding monstrousities that kill you in one hit. The traditional zombies are boring and need to go.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

There is a way to incorporate RE6's control scheme with older entry's atmosphere and intensity.

I don't think capcom is capable of doing it though.

 

[Ranger X]

Also, how about not being in a dark, broken and abandoned place for a change? I mean the Resident Evil worlds are so NOT imaginative anymore.

 

[News Bot]

i have to agree on :

5: Tone Down The Gunplay. More Melee Encounters

Code veronica was the only RE were the knife was really usefull. RE4 knife was alright but Leon backflip kick was better.

You're not meant to want to get close to an enemy if you want an effective horror game. The knife was always a last resort weapon, and even then you were meant to be hesitant to use it, and favor dodging.

 

[Mdk7]

8: The Evil Within

Winner here!

 

[wildfire]

My 7 ways to make Resident Evil better.

1. Cripple character movement. The hallmark of what made Resident 1-4 scary was how limited your controls were, creating a severe tension.


2. Thoroughly hide what makes the enemies such a threat. We fear what we don't understand. Answers about the things that threaten us in the game should be a veryt hard mystery to solve. Ideally anyone can play the game and beat it roughly in 6 hours and be scared throughout because they are running away instead of trying to understand the problem. A person who chooses to explore the game environment can stretch their experience to almost 20 hours as they unlock the mystery and find new ways to deal with encounters.

3. Omni-present enemy. Where at a stage where all 3 consoles has support for asymetric gameplay. Allow the ability for person using the WiiPad, Smartglass compatible tablet or Vita to play as a lieutenant for the CPU and trying to help it reach an end goal before the good guy can beat it or get away from it.

4: Bring Back The Ambient Music, and a Little Backtracking.

This goes without saying.

5. Create actual risk rewards for various weapon types. The increased gunplay wasn't a problem. What was a problem was that you weren't punished for using guns over stealthier or more situational powerful options.

6. Allow characters to die. Give us a pool of heroes to work with. Our progress in the game is based on keeping them alive and acquiring new heroes instead of savepoints.

7. Remove check point style save points. Make rest points between stages unsafe. Move unplayable cutscenes inbetween stages.
It's for your own good.

 

[demosthenes]

They can start with forgetting RE 4, 5 and 6 ever existed.

More Horror and More Survival please!

RE4 is amazing.

 

[Riposte]

It's not like RE is short of the insanity allowing for variety in enemy types a-la X-COM.

Funny enough, certain types of enemies in RE6 actually work a lot like/are based on the same concept as Xcom's. Yeah, that could be an interesting side project. Farm it out to a prestigious western PC dev and let them have fun with it.

If people want to hear what I would like to see done: (fan fiction time)

1) REmake 2. Maybe aim for a lower budget and release it on everything like they did Revelations.

2) RE7. Next gen. Keep it big. Carry over RE6 mechanics and make refinements based on what worked and what didn't. This means a highly detailed, but optional tutorial at the very least. Three campaigns + other content.

a) Two "solo" campaigns, but with a twist. The quickest way to describe it would be what if Leon and Claire scenarios from RE2 could be played at the same time by two people. Either through system link or players being dropped in and out randomly online, these two characters will inhabit the same open-world/hub area. How of it is a co-op game depends on the players. Additionally, players can drop in as monsters in these open-world area, similar to Agent Hunt (maybe include Hunk as well). Aside from this, there will be instances where players will have to go solo (sort of like overworld -> dungeons transitions you see in other games). If I had to pick these characters it would be Jill and Claire, with the former being on a mission and the latter being more a civilian looking for someone (a daughter? husband? the husband should be unimportant, anyway). One idea is to have the first part of one of these campaigns consist of a heavily wounded character who moves slower (with the game being designed around this), i.e. making a chunk of one of these campaigns (at least in the solo instances) play more like RE4/5.

b) In this open-world/hub there could be "side quests", but instead of fodder, they should entirely be a means to access multiplayer content. Additional modes like Survivors, Predator, and Onslaught should be turned into these quests.

c) A third campaign being RE5/RE6 style co-op, working much the same way. This would be separated for the most part, but likely have cross-overs like in RE6 with the other two at some point. Instead of taking place in one large area, it would be the usual world-trotting adventure (ideally with a visit to a gothic castle). If I had to choose this would be Jake and Sherry.

d) Raid Mode would be turned into a pseudo-campaign(designed to be played a hundred times over, with harder and harder modes), probably named "The Raiders". 4-5 big ass maps (inspired by RE:R's Ghost Ship stage) with somewhat randomized enemies, objectives, and mega bosses (these should act and feel like enemies from Monster Hunter) to be played by four+ BSAA agents, drawing from a cast including Chris, Rebecca, Sheva, Quint, etc (each having their own unique weapons/skills/upgrade paths). Less progression elements and certainly less power creep. I see leveling up characters to get new abilities (skill trees) and loot that degrades over time, but can be repaired by sacrificing loot. Loot can also be gained from doing side-quests in two of the campaigns. I'm thinking more Monster Hunter than Diablo.

e) The Mercenaries. Not much to change here. Shouldn't be at all affected by loot or whatever. Keep it pure. Maybe make it slightly more deadly? More unique enemies?

f) Focus on maintaining the Mercenaries and Raid Mode content in the future. Maybe even make a F2P version of Mercs/Raid at some point. Make a splash everytime you make a major update. Dino Crisis stage/dinosaur enemies with Regina. RE1 mansion with Wesker. Dead Rising mall with Frank West. DMC1 Dante... Akuma (based on the old EGM joke)... go nuts, make that paper. Have there be both Raid and Mercs version of each new map.

What not to do no matter what: Make another game like Revelations. RE6 was an awesome action game. Revelations was a mediocre one at best and didn't do anything special to make up for it.

 

[Polioliolio]

End it. It's too big and corporate. It has to be a generalization of all expected consumer tastes or they'll never publish it. It's garbage.

If you want something newish, look at Evil Within.

 

[FlipWilson]

you number #1 reason was my biggest gripe about resident evil 5&6...how did the enemies go from slowly walking flesh-eating zombies to now shooting guns and operating vehicles/machinery...I can deal with the usual tranformed enemy but danm capcom you went too far

 

[NYShotgun06]

Why won't they just make a Resident Evil Outbreak: File 3? The Outbreak series was amazing keeping it old school while adding the online elements was a perfect mixture. Kept the original fans happy actually.

 

[Esura]

you number #1 reason was my biggest gripe about resident evil 5&6...how did the enemies go from slowly walking flesh-eating zombies to now shooting guns and operating vehicles/machinery...I can deal with the usual tranformed enemy but danm capcom you went too far

I like how people constantly omit 4 from everything when criticizing the new RE direction. The Las Plagas operated weapons. Not necessarily the big guns and heavy artillery like in 5 and 6 but it was the start.

 

[Manu]

you number #1 reason was my biggest gripe about resident evil 5&6...how did the enemies go from slowly walking flesh-eating zombies to now shooting guns and operating vehicles/machinery...

Because even from the first game the zombies are explained to be an accidental byproduct of the T-Virus, Tyrants are the actual desired outcome of infecting someone with it.

It's only logical that over time viruses would get more sophisticated.

The only point where I said "okay, this is a bit too much" was

Spoiler

dino Simmons. I don't mind him becoming a giant monster, but turning back into a person? THAT'S NOT HOW MATTER WORKS, CAPCOM.

RE5 and 6 also have a lot of good creature/monster design, like HAOS.

 

[Thaumaturgic Tomato]

First thing that comes to mind is cut that damn wall of plastic hair in front that main character's face. It's huge, cheesy, and goes way beyond suspension of disbelief. This isn't the 90's man. What terrible design. At least grease it back Zack Morris style. How has he not been killed with his field of vision 7/8 blocked? It's one giant polygon.

Reboot this series. It's a mess in design, visuals, and narrative. It's empty. Creature design is poop. Large tentacles/claws are the cheapest, most uncreative thing an enemy can have. That goes for all the games with tentacles. Just because they're easy on the GPU.

"Oh that zombie suddenly grew a big tentacle arm. Now that's AAA."

 

[djshauny]

6 was a good action game but its def not the resident evil I grew up with. They went the action route because RE was dying. It was specifically stated RE 4 went more action due to the bad sales of REmake. I mean I'd love to see them go back towards the original style one day. Will it ever happen? Probably not... but never say never.

Well it should of stayed on the Playstation.

The Gamecube was bombing.

*Ive a great idea, lets move it to the gamecube." said Capcom.

As for RE3 and code veronica, no wonder the RE games were dying. They wasnt what made Resident Evil great.

I knew it as soon as I played them that something was a little odd.

 

[Korigama]

My 7 ways to make Resident Evil better.

1. Cripple character movement. The hallmark of what made Resident 1-4 scary was how limited your controls were, creating a severe tension.


2. Thoroughly hide what makes the enemies such a threat. We fear what we don't understand. Answers about the things that threaten us in the game should be a veryt hard mystery to solve. Ideally anyone can play the game and beat it roughly in 6 hours and be scared throughout because they are running away instead of trying to understand the problem. A person who chooses to explore the game environment can stretch their experience to almost 20 hours as they unlock the mystery and find new ways to deal with encounters.

3. Omni-present enemy. Where at a stage where all 3 consoles has support for asymetric gameplay. Allow the ability for person using the WiiPad, Smartglass compatible tablet or Vita to play as a lieutenant for the CPU and trying to help it reach an end goal before the good guy can beat it or get away from it.

4: Bring Back The Ambient Music, and a Little Backtracking.

This goes without saying.

5. Create actual risk rewards for various weapon types. The increased gunplay wasn't a problem. What was a problem was that you weren't punished for using guns over stealthier or more situational powerful options.

6. Allow characters to die. Give us a pool of heroes to work with. Our progress in the game is based on keeping them alive and acquiring new heroes instead of savepoints.

7. Remove check point style save points. Make rest points between stages unsafe. Move unplayable cutscenes inbetween stages.
It's for your own good.

1./RE6's level of maneuverability presents a problem in a supposed horror game, but at the same time, it shouldn't be too limited. Even then, though, I considered the atmosphere and enemies encountered in other games more of a factor in making the games scary than control limitations.

2./No problems with this.

3./I would prefer they focus on refining the core experience rather than waste time and resources on more multiplayer gimmicks.

4./Also fine by me.

5./Most guns already have risk and reward accounted for through firing rate, start-up, recovery, and reload time. RE isn't particularly stealthy (unless you just mean providing more opportunities to kill enemies before they can react to you).

6./Kind of difficult to bother caring all that much if dealing with a pool of disposable, interchangeable characters.

7./Having no safe zones at all doesn't bode well for strategizing, in addition to the elimination of a rise and fall in tension being something that would just make the experience feel like a drawn out slog. That said, I would be in favor of getting rid of auto-save checkpoints.

 

[Tygamr]

The series just needs to be rebooted. I can't take it very seriously at all. Pretty much all of the games have ridiculous plots, and aren't scary (my favorite in terms of plot is probably Revelations).

 

[Yasae]

I wouldn't say that.

I liked the forced co-op in 5, something most publishers find it hard to commit to on console

and I liked the ideas behind the melee system and rolls in RE6. Game just lacked the focus to really highlight those ideas through its game content

and that's just RE. I think there's alot of creativity going on in their other franchises as well that people are copying. Like Devil Bringer in DMC4, SF4's success in scaling back the complexity of the franchise, and fucking Monster Hunter. There's also been some really cool new franchises to come out of them as well with Dead Rising and Dragon's Dogma.(and Lost Planet until 3) Not to mention the excellent PC ports of some of their biggest games. (Capcom was one of the first publishers to support steam in a big way. Waaaaay before Bamco started giving a shit about the platform)

There's alot of talent still at Capcom and despite some pretty big missteps, there's been alot of good in their output this gen as well. If management can learn from their mistakes and better channel that talent next gen, I'll still have alot of interest in the output of the company. They're still the only Japanese publisher worth caring about right now besides Nintendo to me. (I think Bamco has been far more anti-consumer this gen than Capcom, with alot less creativity and quality in their output)

Ah, but they are most certainly creatively bankrupt when it comes to RE. This is a series which exists in name only; it sells because of its previous reputation despite the titles being mostly interchangeable. The RE games of today are those which any developer with enough money could have made.

That's lazy. It's cash-grabbing. I agree there are some good bits buried underneath otherwise average games, but the torch has been spirited away.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

RE should cease to exist.

This.

The IP had a good run, gameplay quality is slowly going to shit, the story is already garbage, Capcom should stop milking this cow but it won't.

 

[ProtomanNeo]

I could swear there was official talk from Capcom following the release of 5 (I believe) that they were going to be rebooting the series. Anyone else recall this? If so what became of it?

 

[G-Fex]

least we're getting a new movie next year. That should keep the community pleased for the time being.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Maybe it's not as big, but there's a vocal group of RE fans who despise RE4 because of what it did to the series.

The RE fanbase is all over the place when thinking about it. There's the old school fans who want a game like the original games, there's the RE4 fans who well, I don't know what they want to be honest, since many of them hate RE5 despite it being extremely similar to RE4, then there's fans of most modern RE games, then there's the two guys who are fans of Operation Raccoon City, and then there's the small rational bunch of fans who like any type of RE game as long as it's fun.

I just don't see Capcom making a game which can satisfy most of those people. They should just aim for something specific and do their best job with that. I think making multiple games at the same time with a very different direction would have been a good idea, but they probably won't allocate the budget for that now.

you forgot the group of old school fans who forgot how the old games actually played and want RE7 to be some sort of nongame like amnesia a machine for pigs or something

 

[Riposte]

Ah, but they are most certainly creatively bankrupt when it comes to RE. This is a series which exists in name only; it sells because of its previous reputation despite the titles being mostly interchangeable. The RE games of today are those which any developer with enough money could have made.

That's lazy. It's cash-grabbing. I agree there are some good bits buried underneath otherwise average games, but the torch has been spirited away.

Everything I don't like is lazy.

Also popular in this thread: Everything I don't like should cease to exist.

What comes first? The bitterness or the childishness?

 

[ksdixon]

Anyone played the recent Mortal Kombat game where it's storymode was a retelling of MK1-3 with some big changes to the storyline every now and then?

I kinda want an Racoon City re-telling game where we jump around RE6 style through different characters to tell the events of RE0,1,2,3 and Outbreak in one giant campaign.

Edit: And then as a nod to RE3, when you're running around Racoon City as Jill you run into Regina (since we know Dino Crisis had time travel in it). Next capcom game... boom! Dino Crisis reboot! Yeah, I know... *cries into his breakfast cereal*

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

They should try to stop appealing to the western market or try to make a game like a western developer. RE4 was amazing but it was Mikami and Capcom making their own unique vision without trying to be all Modern Warfare or Gears of War (since they didn't exist at the time!).

I found it a bit laughable when they said they're looking to Tomb Raider and Last of Us for inspiration. Like really? They want to tell a story we'll take seriously like Last of Us with Resident Evil? RE4 had horrible dialogue and story but that's not what made it a masterpiece.

Capcom needs to make a game their own and make a RE game that meets their own vision AND what fans want.

Of course it's not that simple without Mikami, the RE master himself. But I think what's holding them down and the series is their obsession to make it a movie or westernized.

Try not to make a movie. Simple as that. That goes for Square-Enix as well and their recent FF games aside from FFXIV a Realm R.

 

[Dice]

Chance that the person who wrote this article was ever actually a fan of RE games: 0%