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[Dr. Feel Good]

Interesting to see Super Mario Galaxy drop so much from the previous list, but I suppose it makes sense as I guess it was still so fresh in people's minds then, and the fact that I'm sure many people are indifferent between Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2.

Honestly disappointing to see such little representation of portable games though...

 

[cartman414]

OoT again? It's not even the best Zelda.

I agree with this. How high did Link's Awakening place?

Oh well, the bitter tears of SMB3 fanboys will have to do

You mean us fanboys of real platforming?

given the sheer number and diversity of games out there, an individual top ten list that's half nintendo can only be the product of inexperience or fanaticism -- it's just not a meaningful representation of gaming history. but nintendo inspires fanaticism like nobody else, and voting elevates the obvious.

in other news, re4 might be overtaking super metroid as the most overrated game ever.

If having a perfect flow of progression is overrated, then I seriously missed the memo on what constitutes good game design.

Besides, Ocarina of Time is the undisputed champion of overratedness.

 

[Forearm Star]

OOT at #1 makes me smile.

Also hurray for a Shadow of the Colossus in the top 10!

 

[Guevara]

Interesting to see Super Mario Galaxy drop so much from the previous list, but I suppose it makes sense as I guess it was still so fresh in people's minds then, and the fact that I'm sure many people are indifferent between Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2.

Honestly disappointing to see such little representation of portable games though...

Which portable games do you believe deserve to be on the list? I enjoy portable gaming but there seem to be far fewer classic games. The few games I would put in my top 20 would be Link's Awakening and Metroid: Zero Mission/Fusion, but I still think the console verions of these series are better.

 

[cartman414]

Which portable games do you believe deserve to be on the list? I enjoy portable gaming but there seem to be far fewer classic games. The few games I would put in my top 20 would be Link's Awakening and Metroid: Zero Mission/Fusion, but I still think the console verions of these series are better.

As far as Super Metroid goes, I agree, but never has there been a smoothly flowing and enjoyable Zelda than Link's Awakening. YMMV of course.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Which portable games do you believe deserve to be on the list? I enjoy portable gaming but there seem to be far fewer classic games. The few games I would put in my top 20 would be Link's Awakening and Metroid: Zero Mission/Fusion, but I still think the console verions of these series are better.

Well in general it's not exactly fair to compare almost the first 10 years of the Game Boy to what consoles had to offer. All the big name games had even bigger and better versions on the consoles of the time (Metroid, Mega Man, Kirby, Final Fantasy, etc.), and it wasn't until the GB -> GBC transition we started seeing truly unique concepts that differentiated themselves from console games.

To me I think games that were "different" proved to be some of the best (think Kirby's Tilt 'n Tumble, Pokemon), and also those that mastered the respective genre in 2D (think Mario Golf, Link's Awakening). And then with the GBA it was the one's that managed to revitalize classic 2D genres with modern game concepts (think Astro Boy, Mario & Luigi) but also new game ideas despite limited hardware (Wario Ware, Tony Hawk). And then with the PSP and DS games that brought to life new gameplay concepts in handheld form (think Lumines, Kirby Canvas Curse, Professor Layton).

I mean honestly handheld platforms have some very highly regarded games. While I love Pokemon RBY/GSC, Pokemon DPt/HGSS are clearly superior, and the only reason the former is on there is nostalgia. Just as Super Mario Bros. DX is superior to Super Mario Bros.

 

[Drkirby]

That's true with a random sample. This is not a random sample, it's subject to self-selection bias.

Why do you have to bring up the inconvenient truths here, ruining my argument :/

There is nothing I can do about that though. You on the other hand can randomly select 2000 posters, PM them asking for their top 10 games, and compile the results of those who reply, since you likely have access to the full member list.

are you sure you didn't accidentally post gamefaqs's greatest games of all time, i thought we were slightly less boring than that

I am sure, I was really hoping for more lesser known games to pop up. It is always nice to notice a few new games on the list that I have never head of when normalizing the names.

Maybe we should do 'GAF's "second" greatest game of All Time', and tell them they can't vote for any of the top 50 titles.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

This list made me remember how goddamn amazing RE4 was. What I wouldn't give to replay that game fresh.

 

[Kujo]

Maybe we should do 'GAF's "second" greatest game of All Time', and tell them they can't vote for any of the top 50 titles.

I think a lot of these votes are too reliant on people's first experiences with the game and not necessarily on how well they hold up in 2011

You mean us fanboys of real platforming?

3 may be a better game if you want just a platformer, but to me W is a better game as a whole. I hope in the future Nintendo comes out with a 2D Mario that's superior to both so we can all agree (maybe that's NSMBW, I haven't played it yet though).

 

[JRW]

RE4 was an amazing game IMO, Glad to see it near the top of the list.

 

[Oblivion]

If you read the average Zelda thread on gaf in the past several months (years?), you wouldn't think that OoT would get anywhere near the top 20. Glad to see another example of a vocal minority being just that: a vocal minority.


Sad to see SMG drop so far down tho.

 

[CecilRousso]

So Nintendo people are much more fond of lists like this than PC people are, I guess?

I will not say that anyone are wrong, of course not, but it´s funny to see lists like this that doesn´t resemble your own at all. But I guess that´s how it should be.

I played Ocarina of Time when it was released, and I wouldn´t put in my top 50 list, because the complete lack of interesting story, a pretty "meh" graphical design, and it being a complete technical mess. But hey, that´s just me.

 

[John]

i like the genres top 10 lists idea

 

[Guevara]

It would be a lot of work, but I'd also be interested in a "Best Games per Console" list.

 

[Cipherr]

given the sheer number and diversity of games out there, an individual top ten list that's half nintendo can only be the product of inexperience or fanaticism -- it's just not a meaningful representation of gaming history. but nintendo inspires fanaticism like nobody else, and voting elevates the obvious.

So Nintendo people are much more fond of lists like this than PC people are, I guess?

Christ and I thought I was chapped about what I consider to be the best beatemup in history not making the list. Calm the hell down.

 

[Stabby McSter]

yeeeee RE4

edit: i'd also be curious which franchises scored the most points. mario vs zelda and whatnot

 

[mavs]

6 of the 10 games I voted for made the weighted list. 3 of the ones that didn't are PC games.

There are more games from the PC on the weighted list than any other individual system.

 

[CecilRousso]

Christ and I thought I was chapped about what I consider to be the best beatemup in history not making the list. Calm the hell down.

Calm the hell down, as answer to that simple post? Lol.

 

[KevinCow]

Why is Pokemon even mentioned? The only game on the list I agree with is Street Fighter II. (ok Metal Gear as well, edit I see Super Mario World in on there - good.)

Games I would pick.

Virtua Racer
Pacman
Gran Turismo 3
Tekken Tag
Street Fighter II
Daytona USA
Virtua Fighter 3
Terminator 2 the arcade game
Super Mario World
Wipeout XL
Metal Gear PSX.


That's just off the top of my head. If I thought about it longer it would change I'm sure.

Then maybe you should have voted in the thread?

 

[Tain]

someone else put ketsui in number one, that's cool

 

[Shadowlink]

Nice to see Yoshi's Island on the list, but it should have been number one.

 

[Acosta]

What I mean is that Mario is more fun and challenging to play in a fast platforming environment

For you perhaps, not for me and not for many other people. Super Mario World is more inventive, diverse and imaginative that any other Mario, is just more playful and interesting, which makes it memorable for many people that don't care that much about the platforming design.

Super Mario World is the best Mario. For Miyamoto, for many people, and for me. Then you can argue that is not the best platformer for the rest of your life if you desire, that won't change the fact that not everyone puts that much value on a single aspect of what makes a complete Mario experiece.

 

[cartman414]

If you read the average Zelda thread on gaf in the past several months (years?), you wouldn't think that OoT would get anywhere near the top 20. Glad to see another example of a vocal minority being just that: a vocal minority.

I love how you always talk down when it comes to opinions you don't agree with.

For you perhaps, not for me and not for many other people. Super Mario World is more inventive, diverse and imaginative that any other Mario, is just more playful and interesting, which makes it memorable for many people that don't care that much about the platforming design.

Super Mario World is the best Mario. For Miyamoto, for many people, and for me. Then you can argue that is not the best platformer for the rest of your life if you desire, that won't change the fact that not everyone puts that much value on a single aspect of what makes a complete Mario experiece.

Say what? Mario 3 was far more inventive and diverse than World, which in some ways was simply following in its footsteps.

And while Mario may be different things to different people, it's almost always been a platformer series first and foremost, and 3 is a much stronger statement to that end.

3 may be a better game if you want just a platformer, but to me W is a better game as a whole. I hope in the future Nintendo comes out with a 2D Mario that's superior to both so we can all agree (maybe that's NSMBW, I haven't played it yet though).

I felt that Mario World got too sidetracked with the exploration stuff, which again isn't stock Mario's strongest suit.

 

[Vinci]

Disproportionately single player and disproportionately console centric relative the general populace. Those seem to be common traits among "core" gamers in virtually all arenas (game sites, magazines, etc.)

Not that any of these are bad games, mind you.

Could that be because multiplayer games - particularly the big online ones - tend to be finite in their appeal due to the shifting populace's attention? Of course this doesn't explain the lack of CS on the list given its insane longevity.

 

[Jackano]

What's the point to do those kind of survey, again? The King is still the King. And OoT didn't become what it is in one day. If, and that's a big if, a game manage to reach it, we will see it coming. OoT had nearly 5 full years of development and we see and waited it from Nov., 1995 to Nov., 1998. Probably impossible these days that a developer handle the hype for three years and at the end give us a killer-app without some bad points.

Anyway, now looking forward to the Zelda 25th anniversary, next monday!

 

[Vinci]

What's the point to do those kind of survey, again? The King is still the King. And OoT didn't become what it is in one day. If, and that's a big if, a game manage to reach it, we will see it coming. OoT had nearly 5 full years of development and we see and waited it from Nov., 1995 to Nov., 1998. Probably impossible these days that a developer handle the hype for three years and at the end give us a killer-app without some bad points.

Anyway, now looking forward to the Zelda 25th anniversary, next monday!

OoT will drop like a stone as the gaming population ages. Give it another ten years and it will be barely in the Top 20.

 

[Atomski]

OoT will drop like a stone as the gaming population ages. Give it another ten years and it will be barely in the Top 20.

Even with them releasing a newer version on the 3DS? Thats a whole new generation exposed to it.

 

[Danielsan]

Even with them releasing a newer version on the 3DS? Thats a whole new generation exposed to it.

Something tells me that the 3D rerelease might actually work against OoT.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Lol at no Ms. Pac-Man nor Bubble Bobble.
You people are just too young I guess, but those two games are the closest ever to gameplay's perfection.

 

[Vinci]

Even with them releasing a newer version on the 3DS? Thats a whole new generation exposed to it.

I'm just saying that I feel new gamers are being exposed to games well outside of OoT's style for the most part. In time, it might very well be possible that Mario Kart Wii, Nintendogs, or even a Kinect title might be ranked higher than OoT. I seriously doubt OoT's 3DS release is going to sell to the same sort of numbers that, say, the new Nintendogs will.

Lol at no Ms. Pac-Man nor Bubble Bobble.
You people are just too young I guess, but those two games are the closest ever to gameplay's perfection.

Actually, gameplay's perfection is adequately covered by Tetris.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The most interesting thing is SMG's drop. I'd attribute that to it not being fresh in people's minds anymore plus the backlash that it's gotten after NSMB Wii and (to a lesser extent) SMG2.

That and general apathy/borderline hate to Nintendo as a company from the media and the hive minds on forums.

OoT will never be touched though. It was too many people's first Zelda game and was also when it first went 3D (funnily enough in more ways than one now!).

Just the fact that people claim that Zelda hasn't changed from the "OoT formula" really says it all. Out of all the 3D Zelda games, OoT arguably represented the least amount of change in regards to the game structure. Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and even Twilight Princess (the so called "OoT 2" and where this attitude towards Zelda first started) experimented moreso with the overall game structure of 3 items/3 dungeons, get Master Sword, go to 2nd world, do 7 more dungeons, final dungeon + boss.

 

[AkuMifune]

OoT will never be touched though. It was too many people's first Zelda game and was also when it first went 3D (funnily enough in more ways than one now!).

It was on my list too, but it's aging horribly. It will be interesting to revisit this again in a few years and see if people still hold it in such high regard. Galaxy seems to have replaced Mario 64 for most people (not me!) and that seems accepted, so it's possible a 3D Zelda could come along and do so well it replaces OoT for a lot of people too, unless that's a bad analogy.

 

[Vinci]

It was on my list too, but it's aging horribly. It will be interesting to revisit this again in a few years and see if people still hold it in such high regard. Galaxy seems to have replaced Mario 64 for most people (not me!) and that seems accepted, so it's possible a 3D Zelda could come along and do so well it replaces OoT for a lot of people too, unless that's a bad analogy.

OoT will not be replaced by another Zelda; it will simply be less relevant to future generations as the gaming audience grows via titles unrelated to the series.

 

[Oblivion]

I love how you always talk down when it comes to opinions you don't agree with.

...he says without the slightest bit of self-awareness.

Dear god, cartman. Dear GOD.

 

[Tain]

given the sheer number and diversity of games out there, an individual top ten list that's half nintendo can only be the product of inexperience or fanaticism -- it's just not a meaningful representation of gaming history. but nintendo inspires fanaticism like nobody else, and voting elevates the obvious.

Pretty spot on.

 

[m.i.s.]

SMW or SMB 3 - they're both fantastic (probably never to be bettered) games though I do prefer the former. But at least they charted high. Spare a thought for Super Mario Kart - one of the greatest racing games of all time - which didn't list at all!

As a previous poster has said, glad to see RE4 get the recognition.

Good job DrKirby.

 

[Oblivion]

The most interesting thing is SMG's drop. I'd attribute that to it not being fresh in people's minds anymore plus the backlash that it's gotten after NSMB Wii and (to a lesser extent) SMG2.

Wha?

 

[Vinci]

Wha?

Once NSMB Wii came out, didn't you notice how so many folks started ragging on Mario Galaxy? Amirox, earlier one of Galaxy's strongest proponents, ripped it a new one regularly after NSMB Wii was released. How could you have missed it?

...

Yeah, I have no idea what he's talking about. Even people who hate the Wii tend to love Galaxy.

 

[Varjet]

*ctrl+f* "Viewtiful Joe"
...
You didn't disappoint, Gaf.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Personally the first list looks the best to me. I'd knock Ocarina down a few places but other than it's pretty sensible.

 

[accolade]

shitty list, too much Nintendo and not a single SEGA game in site.

where's?

Revenge of Shinobi or Shinobi 3
Streets of Rage or Streets of Rage 2
Sonic the Hedgehog or Sonic 2
hell even Mortal Kombat on Genesis was the version to buy, and MKII sold just as good.

QFT

 

[Magicpaint]

OoT will not be replaced by another Zelda; it will simply be less relevant to future generations as the gaming audience grows via titles unrelated to the series.

That happens with every game. The idea is that the hardcores over generations will still play and love it (and they're the ones that dictate these kind of lists), and it keeps itself relevant through re-releases (Wind Waker bonus disc, Collector's Edition and now the 3DS remake) just like the Mario games. That's why you still see SMW and SMB3 (games that are 20+ years old) on these lists.

Something tells me that the 3D rerelease might actually work against OoT.

Like how Super Mario 64 DS worked against SM64?

 

[Vinci]

That happens with every game. The idea is that the hardcores over generations will still play and love it (and they're the ones that dictate these kind of lists), and it keeps itself relevant through re-releases (Wind Waker bonus disc, Collector's Edition and now the 3DS remake) just like the Mario games. That's why you still see SMW and SMB3 (games that are 20+ years old) on these lists.

Possibly true. It just seems that Zelda's relevance is surely going to dive, meanwhile other franchises or titles will take over for younger gamers as their gateway titles. Eventually, those younger gamers are going to be able to leverage enough numbers in order to shift these type of polls.

I guess we'll see. I plan on being around a while.

 

[Acosta]

Say what? Mario 3 was far more inventive and diverse than World, which in some ways was simply following in its footsteps.

And while Mario may be different things to different people, it's almost always been a platformer series first and foremost, and 3 is a much stronger statement to that end.

As I said, more people like Super Mario World over SMB3, including Miyamoto. That doesn't invalidate your opinion but you should accept that your truth don't go beyond yourself.

 

[Magicpaint]

Possibly true. It just seems that Zelda's relevance is surely going to dive, meanwhile other franchises or titles will take over for younger gamers as their gateway titles. Eventually, those younger gamers are going to be able to leverage enough numbers in order to shift these type of polls.

I guess we'll see. I plan on being around a while.

Unless these people become hardcore gamers, in which case they will definitely be exposed to Ocarina of Time in some way (via mention in forums, gaming history articles, another of these generic all time lists, word of mouth from other gamers etc), I don't really see much changing in terms of hardcore mindshare about quality games. It's the hardcore mentality that keeps Super Metroid in the all time top tens consistently (it being a fantastic example of game design that still holds up brilliantly), it certainly wasn't because it was a big selling game, for example.

As I said, more people like Super Mario World over SMB3, including Miyamoto. That doesn't invalidate your opinion but you should accept that your truth don't go beyond yourself.

This isn't necessarily true. I think it could go either way. It's always, always close.

 

[beelzebozo]

I guess we'll see. I plan on being around a while.

they'll have me on ventilation, enteral feeding, and total life support, and my only independent action will be to push a big red button that votes for ocarina of time on this page.

 

[eXistor]

I didn't even know this was going on, I would have liked to have voted.

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

4 #1 votes for Links Awakening! I'm so proud of myself....and three other people.

*internet high five*

I'm also happy to see Morrowind over Oblivion, it was the other way around in last year's list. Well deserved. Good list overall.

 

[Xater]

Very console skewed which is disappointing. Seeing an absolute classic like Deus Ex so low is a tragedy.

 

[Vinci]

Unless these people become hardcore gamers, in which case they will definitely be exposed to Ocarina of Time in some way (via mention in forums, gaming history articles, another of these generic all time lists, word of mouth from other gamers etc), I don't really see much changing in terms of hardcore mindshare about quality games. It's the hardcore mentality that keeps Super Metroid in the all time top tens consistently (it being a fantastic example of game design that still holds up brilliantly), it certainly wasn't because it was a big selling game, for example.

We'll see. I'd be absolutely shocked if it maintained its reign for more than another ten years. I don't see how future hardcore gamers would have any inherent nostalgia or interest in the game. It's common nowadays to hear from people who grew up in the Sony era that they've never played it, and don't think they could because the graphics are so horrible by modern standards. This sort of commentary is only going to increase over time.

I think, in the end, OoT's continued position at the top of such lists is a sign of how narrowly new gamers were being created - a factor that I doubt will be true for that much longer.