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[AndyMoogle]

Point still stands, Steam is not an alternative outside some countries. I use another DD service which very much competes with retail prices.
It does not have the range of Steam but I can combine it with buying games on discs.

http://spelbutiken.telia.se/

Here is a Valve game.

Orange box:
29USD
41USD

Guess which price is the Steam price?

I paid €10 for Orange Box on Steam. How many awesome deals do Telia put up a year?

 

[Dead Man]

I like the way tho complaint is worded in terms of 'as retailers move into online distribution', Nice. So not only can't you have our pie, you can't have your pie that you made yourself. :lol

 

[arstal]

............Impulse is viable in the long term, but D2D isn't?

I don't know anyone who prefers D2D at all. There are people who prefer Impulse and GG.

Steam you get all those community features and size
Impulse you get a great client, much better service, and fastest download speed
Gamersgate you get no client and Blue Coins
D2D you get extra DRM

They can only compete now with price, which isn't good for their long-term. I have no idea what long-term is though, so I suspect they'll limp along for a good while.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

:lol

Is it really that bad at US brick & mortars?

Going into any Media Markt or Saturn here and the PC shelves are the largest and most expansive (ahead of the DS- > Wii -> PS2 -> PS360).

UK & Ireland actually.
Gamestop certainly, slightly bigger in Game, but certainly the bastard child of the store.

Having been to both MM & Saturn (Gamescom), it's a world of difference.

 

[Dead Man]

Steam is charing overprice if you happen to live outside NA (Sweden). Fuck Steam.

Call of Duty Black Ops
Retail: 56USD
Steam: 83USD

Just Cause 2
Retail: 19USD
Steam: 69USD

Medal of Honor
Retail: 50USD
Steam: 69USD

Yeah I think I will still get my games on a disc or via other digital download services.

I love steams sales, but for new releases it is almost always cheaper to order a disc from the UK to Australia. Especially with the high value of the Aussie dollar at the moment. $89.99 US for COD:BO? I don't think so. For James Bond: Bloodstone? Are you fucking joking?

Edit: FO:NV is 90US on Steam as well. I bought it for 40Au from an online store, all good.

 

[Archie]

D2D is backed by IGN who is backed by NewsCorp. They aren't going anywhere.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Butthurt competitor overexaggerates, news at 11?

 

[arstal]

Oh, one other factor.

Stardock said with Elemental, that the reason they didn't release retail in Europe was due to high costs of putting out a box.

If they sold the game for $50, and they flat out were not going to charge more for retail, they claimed at various cuts and taxes, they'd get a return of around $1-$2 for it. Selling on DD they make so much more profit, that it didn't make sense to sell retail outside of Russia, where the costs were lower. (I don't get that, but I believe it)

Doing the math, pretty much if they get only 10-20% of those who would have bought retail to buy digital, they're much better off.

 

[subversus]

WTF. John Galt over here. This is what corporations do.

more like that's what people do.

 

[Pikelet]

The best thing you can do in this case, is to buy your games outside of Steam as much as possible. Not saying you have to boycott Steam (I actually don't unlike what some people claim)- but if it's the same price on two services, get it on the competitors.

If i prefer the service that steam offers then why would i buy it off a competitor? The burden is on them to make it attractive for me to get it from them.

The only situations that i find i use other services in when the games aren't on steam, or if they have a better price.

That said, i am not really a fan of forcing people to use Steam, especially if they bought the game from another DD service.

 

[TouchMyBox]

This. The fact that we end up with one store is NOT a good thing. Monopolies are never good, even when the companies bringing them seem intent on doing the good thing. This is pretty much applicable anywhere, Steam is no exception.

I don't understand why people still use this straw-man argument. ANYBODY CAN SELL STEAMWORKS TITLES.

If there is a scary thing about steam, it's that we're all relying on steam's servers in order for us to play our videogames, and it's a bitch when they go down the odd time.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

:lol

Is it really that bad at US brick & mortars?


Going into any Media Markt or Saturn here and the PC shelves are the largest and most expansive (ahead of the DS- > Wii -> PS2 -> PS360).

Depends on the Retailer. My local Gamestop has basically WoW, Starcraft 2, and Civ 5. That's it. Seriously. My local Walmart, on the other hand has all that, shovelware BS, some older stuff, and most major new releases. My Local Best Buy has generally the same selection as Walmart and more. So does my local Target. I don't want to turn this into an anti gamestop rant, but seriously, whomever this "mystery retailer" is, I wish they would have some fucking balls and say what you have to say without being anonymous.

On Topic, I think that if PC games had similar shelf space to consoles, maybe this would not have happened. But over the years, stores started to cut back for a variety of reasons. That is all well and good, but just because you stopped carrying PC games does not mean that people did not want to play them.

Basically, Brick and Mortar told PC Games to fuck off, DD services like Steam came along and said come kick it with me and now the Brick and Mortar are mad and getting pissy GTFO.

My Dad said years ago that the finest woman in the world is your ex on the arm of another man. I think it fits this situation

 

[Zzoram]

I don't understand why people still use this straw-man argument. ANYBODY CAN SELL STEAMWORKS TITLES.

If there is a scary thing about steam, it's that we're all relying on steam's servers in order for us to play our videogames, and it's a bitch when they go down the odd time.

Yep. Valve doesn't charge for Steamworks so any developer can easily add it to their game. Also pricing on Steam is set by publishers and we will always have competition between games of different publishers. If Steam becomes the only place to buy PC games, Activision still can't sell CoD15 for $100 because almost nobody would pay that, especially if EA puts out a Battlefield for $60 around the same time. As for sales, they'll keep happenening because they make the publishers more money than never putting their games on sale. New games on Steam have to compete with old games unlike at retail where limited shelf space means only new games, Sims games or Blizzard games can be found in the PC isle.

 

[water_wendi]

Define shitty.

One thing I don't understand about Steam. It's a fine DD service but the prices are ridicilous. I mean Steam has successfully cutted down punch of middle mans and yet it doesn't reflect on game prices

Just wait. Once retailers stop carrying any PC games at all and everything goes DD the prices are going to drop.

 

[EviLore]

I don't know anyone who prefers D2D at all.

Well, your personal anecdotes should obviously take priority over real world data, but just for fun:


Digital distribution marketshare ranking from NPD:

1. Steam
2. Direct2Drive
3. Blizzard.com
4. EA.com
5. Worldofwarcraft.com


Marketshare estimate based on site traffic metrics:

Marketshare among Kotaku readers (US-centric):

 

[Visualante]

Retailers [in the UK] fuck and dump the PC market every few months with the handful of huge titles (Black Ops, Civ, Starcraft). The rest of the year it is a fucking joke. Why should I waste my time in their stores when I'm a second class customer?

I hope publishers ignore these requests and PC can exist wholly in the future of videogames.

It's funny how retailers find all kinds of things to blame when they can't make as much money as they used to. Be it Piracy, used games, grey imports, supermarket discounting or lack of supporting a format until somebody else does it and they try to copy it too late to make a differance.

If these quotes are coming from the GAME group they're fucked business wise, they expanded way too much in the past decade. Their refusal to match prices and withdrawel of sales initiatives like free returns has left them stagnating while the online market (boxed via Amazon or digital via Steam) has boomed. They're just playing the blame game now. GAME group can go rot as far as I'm concerned, the only reason they're 'on top' of the high street is because in some towns they have as many as three locations. I digress, but it could be a motivating factor behind these calls.

 

[M3d10n]

Steamworks is the best online infrastructure a developer can use on their games if they don't have any up and running already. It's free (whereas stuff like GameSpy and GFWL aren't), feature-rich and easy to use.

If a retailer wanted to "pressure" me into not using it, they'd better be ready to decrease their cut to compensate the monstrous headache of using another online system.

 

[Willy Wanka]

I'm not prepared to pay the current prices on Steam for new PC releases so the day retailers stop selling those games is the day I stop playing them (until they appear in a Steam sale *cough*).

 

[Jex]

Not for every country.

UK prices seem comparable with US prices at least.

 

[ElFly]

The steam boat sailed long ago, retailer dudes.

You should have refused to stock HL2 bundled with Steam. To whine now is kind of too late.

 

[Interfectum]

Bullshit, this fallacy keeps going in every Steam thread and is just pure bullshit. They are not forced to anything. Steamworks provides a service to the developers, in terms of online implementation, userbase and DRM, a service that would cost lots of money and time if the developer had to do it. And the only "price" for that service is that it requires its platform to work. How is not that fair?

Others distributors can still sell the game with Steamworks and get their cut, but of course the cry fool because they know once people are exposed to Steam, they rarely go back. So what are they complaining about? That Steam is too awesome? Come on...

If they want to compete with Steam, they must offer what Valve does in terms of service, for ursers and for companies. Or find their own niche like GoG and Gamesrgate does. But complaining about a company for being simply better than them is pure stupidity.

Holy fuck, you nailed it.

 

[spwolf]

Whats so hard to understand? Businesses do not like selling things that promote their direct competitor.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Holy fuck, you nailed it.

And not only did he nail it, but the whole retailer angle is stupid. If Steam pricing is fubared in Europe and retailers always offer cheaper prices at launch, they're also benefiting from Steam. Steam is keeping the platform viable, and retailers are offering the games locally at prices that the Steam store can't match (thanks to the greed of the publishers and their weird currency matching). It's win-win. More sales for everyone.

Whats so hard to understand? Businesses do not like selling things that promote their direct competitor.

Come back when they say the same thing about GFWL.

 

[jorma]

Steam is charing overprice if you happen to live outside NA (Sweden). Fuck Steam.

Call of Duty Black Ops
Retail: 56USD
Steam: 83USD

Just Cause 2
Retail: 19USD
Steam: 69USD

Medal of Honor
Retail: 50USD
Steam: 69USD

Yeah I think I will still get my games on a disc or via other digital download services.

But if you can buy the games at another webshop but still register the game at steam and use it within the steam community i dont see the problem? This should be a good thing, yeah? Isnt that sort of like playing all your PSNgames within the PSN community, with the trophywhoring abilities and friendslist and all, but being able to buy them wherever you want?

Or am i missing something here?

 

[spwolf]

Come back when they say the same thing about GFWL.

they dont care about GFWL because nobody buys games there...

 

[migulic]

:lol

Is it really that bad at US brick & mortars?


Going into any Media Markt or Saturn here and the PC shelves are the largest and most expansive (ahead of the DS- > Wii -> PS2 -> PS360).

Just out of curiosity, what country are you from? Here in Belgium the PC section of Media Markt/Saturn stores is usually mid-sized (smaller than DS and PS3 but larger than Wii/360/PS2), although I know that in some countries (like Poland) the PC game section of multimedia stores is larger than all of the console sections put together.

 

[Stop It]

“If we have a digital service, then I don’t want to start selling a rival in-store,” the digital boss at one of the biggest UK games retailers said to MCV. “Publishers are creating a monster ­– we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.”

Well, considering only GAME have a Digital Distribution side to their business, it's safe to say this is them complaining.

Just a tip, stop charging exorbitant prices for PC games, and while you're at it, stop using the diabolical Metaboli DD service if you want to compete with Steam. Pissing and moaning about Steamworks to publishers is going to get you nowhere. Consumers generally like Steamworks and that's why publishers are adopting it more and more, if retailers/DD merchants do not like it, make a better solution.

 

[FOOTE]

It's probably a rare occurrence, but I once bought a game from D2D and was told that I would receive an email with my key to activate the game. Waited 24hrs and no email. I contacted them and gave them all of the information I felt was relevant, and they never responded. After that I haven't trusted any DD service other then Steam.

Although this year has been a little rocky for me with Steam too as the client would simply not work for nearly half of this year. I recently upgraded to Windows 7 and whatever the problem was vanished. So I'm currently enjoying it again.

 

[arstal]

Whats so hard to understand? Businesses do not like selling things that promote their direct competitor.

That's a strawman according to Steam-GAF.

As for EvilLore's statistics- those are disputed by Stardock and I believe Paradox also. Fact is, there is no real way to tell for sure.

It's probably a rare occurrence, but I once bought a game from D2D and was told that I would receive an email with my key to activate the game. Waited 24hrs and no email. I contacted them and gave them all of the information I felt was relevant, and they never responded. After that I haven't trusted any DD service other then Steam.

Although this year has been a little rocky for me with Steam too as the client would simply not work for nearly half of this year. I recently upgraded to Windows 7 and whatever the problem was vanished. So I'm currently enjoying it again.

That's not the other services, that's just D2D. As for Steam's client- that's an issue I have also- try playing any MP game on Steam during a TF2 update rush.

 

[EviLore]

As for EvilLore's statistics- those are disputed by Stardock and I believe Paradox also. Fact is, there is no real way to tell for sure.

No shit they're disputed by Stardock.

 

[duckroll]

That's a strawman according to Steam-GAF.

As for EvilLore's statistics- those are disputed by Stardock and I believe Paradox also. Fact is, there is no real way to tell for sure.

Stardock disputes various independent studies finding that their service makes up an insignificant part of the DD market. Shock and awe. Fact is, they're as believable as the Iraqi Information Minister.

 

[webrunner]

Digital distribution marketshare ranking from NPD:

1. Steam
2. Direct2Drive
3. Blizzard.com
4. EA.com
5. Worldofwarcraft.com

3 and 5 are the same store, surely?

 

[arstal]

No shit they're disputed by Stardock.

Doesn't mean that Stardock's wrong. My guess, to be honest: is that if you take out the application side of Stardock, they're behind those guys, but take out first-party stuff like WOW/TF2/GC2 and they're 3rd behind Steam and GG.

(I don't count Paradox titles as 1st-party for GG since they offer them other places)

 

[Yoritomo]

wait, they have actual shops with PC games in them?

The only places in the states with significant shelf space are Wal-Mart and PC centric stores that sell components (Microcenter, Fry's)

 

[Amneisac]

There are 4 Gamestops within 10 miles of my house. 0 of them stock PC games. (I have seen a few copies of WoW behind the counter and stuff, and they'll occasionally take a preorder on a PC game, but they don't actually stock them).

I will pay up to $10 more for a Steam game just to have it tied to my Steam account because I know it's going to be there forever (I hope) and I'm never going to need a disc again.

Does that suck for retailers? You betcha. Is it anyone's fault but their own for getting outplayed by Valve? Nope.

I don't know what it is about the video games market in general that makes people want to treat it so differently from other products. From used game sales, to Arnold vs. Video Games it's bizarro-land.

All this being said, I'll be interested to see how Amazon's digital distribution in the PC space affects this. When it comes to buying video games Amazon and Steam are the only places I shop anyways. Part of that is because of their prices and part of it is because GameStop shit on all the Babbages near my house so no one sells PC games anymore.

 

[BigBadShamoo]

I think the last PC game I bought from retail was Unreal Tournament 2004.


RETAIL killed the PC retail market. Stores constantly have shitty selection, higher prices for the most part. But the real thing for me is, I have the option of having all my Steam games available to download on any computer I want my games on. Brilliance.

 

[The Technomancer]

Because, eventually Steam would get greedy , because they could.

Gabe's not going to be around forever, and there's no Guarantee Gabe doesn't get bitten by the evil bug.

With an entrenched monopoly, it becomes REALLY hard to set up a rival service. At the very least, a mid-sized company such as Stardock, Paradox, or the Polish guys behind GOG wouldn't be big enough to do it.

This is my biggest worry. I mean, monopolies can be broken. Apple has gone from something like 2% personal computer OS marketshare to over 10% in the last decade, and shows no sign of slowing down. But its a long process.

I love Steam as it is. I'd be lying if I didn't fear what Steam could become. Question is, assuming Gabe doesn't go evil, is there anything he can do to make sure that things don't go bad after he's gone?

 

[Interfectum]

This is my biggest worry. I mean, monopolies can be broken. Apple has gone from something like 2% personal computer marketshare to over 10% in the last decade, and shows no sign of slowing down. But its a long process.

I love Steam as it is. I'd be lying if I didn't fear what Steam could become. Question is, assuming Gabe doesn't go evil, is there anything he can do to make sure that things don't go bad after he's gone?

It seems silly to fear something like this as nothing lasts forever. Steam offers a fantastic service. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[arstal]

This is my biggest worry. I mean, monopolies can be broken. Apple has gone from something like 2% personal computer marketshare to over 10% in the last decade, and shows no sign of slowing down. But its a long process.

I love Steam as it is. I'd be lying if I didn't fear what Steam could become. Question is, assuming Gabe doesn't go evil, is there anything he can do to make sure that things don't go bad after he's gone?

The only thing he can do is hope the guy he leaves it to doesn't go evil. Going public would be the worst idea.

That said, right now, if Steam went evil tomorrow, there's enough competition that they'd take a real beating. That may not be the case in a few years.

I think the last PC game I bought from retail was Unreal Tournament 2004.


RETAIL killed the PC retail market. Stores constantly have shitty selection, higher prices for the most part. But the real thing for me is, I have the option of having all my Steam games available to download on any computer I want my games on. Brilliance.

retail decided to kill it in favor of console gaming. DD really is nice, provided it's done right.

One thing I am curious about- how many people did not have Steam as their first DD experience? I actually used Gamersgate and Stardock Central (GalCiv I) before Steam.
I do think that influenced how I feel about things, and why I'm more of a skeptic towards steam then most of GAF.

 

[The Technomancer]

It seems silly to fear something like this as nothing lasts forever. Steam offers a fantastic service. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Oh I most definitely do. In most threads I'm championing Steam, and I buy just about all my PC games off there. But the worry is in the back of my head...

I do think if it ever comes to it though that its easier to break a monopoly on a digital product then it is on a physical one if your service really is a lot better.

 

[arstal]

Oh I most definitely do. In most threads I'm championing Steam, and I buy just about all my PC games off there. But the worry is in the back of my head...

You can't do anything about it if it happens, so enjoy the ride, and give the other guys a shot too.

Edit:

Paradox CEO's twitter

http://twitter.com/TheWesterFront

"Anonymous UK retailers claim Steam is killing the PC market. I thought digital dist. has made PC gaming bounce back?"

 

[gregor7777]

Whats so hard to understand? Businesses do not like selling things that promote their direct competitor.

Then offer a Steamworks alternative.

It's not simply free, it actually saves devs money. It reduces the costs of developing those kinds of online features.

And Steam in no way requires that developers use it to be on their store.

So it seems to me that the real beef is between other retailers and the publishers choosing Steamworks.

You can't blame Steam for providing a service.

 

[erpg]

:lol Killing the PC market? I've purchased more games in the last two years on PC than I ever have across all systems from 1997-2008.

The world would be a better place if Valve was in charge.

 

[Lard]

It's always bad when one company has a stranglehold on the market, whether it's Apple, Valve, Nintendo or anyone else. That's just common sense.

 

[someguyinahat]

Given those two charts of market share and the Kotaku survey, it should be noted that there is a healthy "Other" section in both. It seems as though there are people out there willing to buy from smaller services, either because of dissatisfaction with Steam or support for the little guys. There may be other reasons too, naturally. I don't see a pure Steam monopoly in the future given that there appear to be plenty of options in case Steam "goes evil."

There's almost a parallel to internet browsers: people were complaining that bundling Internet Explorer with Windows was anti-competitive and monopolistic, but people started looking into alternatives such as Firefox and (more recently) Chrome.

 

[ghst]

i can't imagine uk retail is going to lament having to get rid of that pc shovelware tree that they keep in the plastic wii accessory section as much as they see steam as a hellish harbinger of what the entire industry is moving towards.

i also think it's cute that brad wardell worries about selling a product that exposes his customers to steam. i'll give you this one for free brad: they already know about it. infact, in my experience, people are more willing to use your service if that purchase provides the option of steam integration.

 

[BuddhaRockstar]

What's funny is if anything being a Steamworks title makes me more likely to buy a physical copy because then I get both the faster disc install/box along with all the benefits of steam. I think B&M should embrace that aspect and say "You get all the advantages of Steam, plus a physical copy of the game!"

 

[ghst]

What's funny is if anything being a Steamworks title makes me more likely to buy a physical copy because then I get both the faster disc install/box along with all the benefits of steam. I think B&M should embrace that aspect and say "You get all the advantages of Steam, plus a physical copy of the game!"

i think retail still has this tragic, deluded notion that they can offer pc gamers something other than lower prices.

 

[denomes]

I think he meant, "Steam is killing it in the PC market.".

 

[Salaadin]

What's funny is if anything being a Steamworks title makes me more likely to buy a physical copy because then I get both the faster disc install/box along with all the benefits of steam. I think B&M should embrace that aspect and say "You get all the advantages of Steam, plus a physical copy of the game!"

I did this with Just Cause 2 and loved it. The only negative is that Steam itself will probably sell the same game MUCH cheaper at some point so waiting might still be worth it. I lucked out with JC2 and got it during an Amazon sale so I still didnt have to pay full price.

Do these constant Steam sales have any negative affect though?
Ive been PC gaming for a year now. Ive paid full price for maybe 2 PC games in that time frame. I was in Gamestop earlier this year and saw Batman AA for 30 bucks but said to myself "maybe itll be the Steam midweek sale". Midweek came and no Batman so I said "Maybe itll be the Weekend sale" and this just repeated over and over for a few months until I got Batman a few weeks ago from Steam for 13 bucks. I do this with literally EVERY PC game that I buy.

Do developers still make good money from Steam when myself (and a lot of others) have a "wait until its 10 bucks on steam" attitude?