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[Starlight Lotice]

Hello all!

This has been on my mind for awhile, and I wanted to share this as I think it is somewhat relevant to looking back at the Neo Geo Console.

SNK/ADK were well known for Fighting Games, Run n Guns and even Shooters, which would make sense as these games came from the Arcade and were their biggest sellers to their niche fanbase.

I understand that there was a Samurai Shodown RPG on the Neo Geo CD, but that sadly stayed in Japan and had horrible load times.

However, when Nintendo's SNES comes to mind for third party games, you either think of Street Fighter, Mega Man or perhaps even Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger, which commended high prices at the time for the scale of the games.

Neo Geo games cost a lot, even when you take into consideration the prestige of how large these games actually are, but I wonder why SNK didn't look at what Square were doing at the time, and wondered whether to show a truly epic JPRG with a huge world to explore with gorgeous spites and a (possibly) hilarious Engrish story plot to it all.

SNK could also benefit from this by charging another $50/100 at the time to truly show the power of the Neo Geo Console with a likely large Megabit Cartridge that could match their fighting games and, at the time, would have been seen as a truly magical experience and coveted by all who didn't own this epic game, akin to what Panzer Dragoon Saga is now. The sound effects would have been above what you heard on the SNES and Mega Drive at the time also.

I think if it were have to have happened, it would have been either in 1993 or 1994, before the Playstation started getting into 2D RPGs.

I am pretty baffled why it never came to be, as it would have pushed what was possible for an RPG at the time (before the Playstation was dominated with the likes of Lunar), cemented that SNK can make more than just Fighters/Shmups AND would have been seen as the pinnacle of RPG greatness.


I personally think it would have been a great asset to the already incredible Neo Geo Line Up, have been talked about in the same vain as Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger at the time, and would have likely been a sought after RPG for many years before the inevitable digital release on the PS3/PS4 era for all to enjoy.


I wouldn't know what SNK would have called a mythical Neo Geo RPG if they had made one, but it honestly feels like a missed opportunity and would have created a large buzz around the fanbase as it would have been "the" RPG to own, and you could only get it on the Neo Geo (at the time).

Do you feel that SNK should have pursued to have created at least one game to test this market for their own audience, or were you happy that they just kept to Fighting Games, Run n Guns and Shmups?

 

[Ceallach]

It was primarily an arcade platform. There was the SS RPG for Neo Geo CD tho.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Subjective opinion: JRPGs didn't really get popular among the console crowd until the mid/late 90s following FF7. Western RPGs didn't get popular until a full generation later with stuff like Morrowind and KotOR. A lot of the hype for the 8-bit and 16-bit gems came years later when kids who couldn't afford those games in their heyday finally got access through secondhand sales and emulators. These games weren't considered huge system-sellers in their native era.

So it's no surprise that SNK/ADK ignored the genre. You know what genre they had a lot of (which you didn't mention in the OP)? Sports and racing games. Those were still hugely popular in the 90s. Why put a ton of effort into a made-for-the-system JRPG when you could be porting your fans' favorite racing games and sports titles to the console?

My fan-wish would've been for someone like Nazca or IREM (both of whom put a ton of games on the system) to make an RPG. The spritework and music production in their games is amazing, and they could've easily transferred those skills over to developing a memorable RPG.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Subjective opinion: JRPGs didn't really get popular among the console crowd until the mid/late 90s following FF7. Western RPGs didn't get popular until a full generation later with stuff like Morrowind and KotOR. A lot of the hype for the 8-bit and 16-bit gems came years later when kids who couldn't afford those games in their heyday finally got access through secondhand sales and emulators. These games weren't considered huge system-sellers in their native era.

So it's no surprise that SNK/ADK ignored the genre. You know what genre they had a lot of (which you didn't mention in the OP)? Sports and racing games. Those were still hugely popular in the 90s. Why put a ton of effort into a made-for-the-system JRPG when you could be porting your fans' favorite racing games and sports titles to the console?

My fan-wish would've been for someone like Nazca or IREM (both of whom put a ton of games on the system) to make an RPG. The spritework and music production in their games is amazing, and they could've easily transferred those skills over to developing a memorable RPG.

True, but I am surprised SNK didn't try at least one RPG when their competitors did. I know SEGA's Phantasy Star was pretty niche even back then, but it seems to get a lot of praise. I think SNK would have got the same, plus the fanbase had the money to try newer things unlike the kids on the Mega Drive/SNES.

In an alternative timeline you would be gushing about how SNK changed the game with the 2D RPG spitework and would probably have Square upping their game for the FF1/2 remakes!

I didn't want to provide misinformation in case I got it wrong, but yeah it got a number of Sports games. One which I love is Windjammers!

Nazca is IREM's Old Team so that could be awkward! Would be brilliant though if one of them tried. I could also imagine Data East having a go at the time too!

 

[Spukc]

no idea same reason i kinda dislike playing the megadrive.
as it lacks rpgs like the snezzy did

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

True, but I am surprised SNK didn't try at least one RPG when their competitors did. I know SEGA's Phantasy Star was pretty niche even back then, but it seems to get a lot of praise. I think SNK would have got the same, plus the fanbase had the money to try newer things unlike the kids on the Mega Drive/SNES.

In an alternative timeline you would be gushing about how SNK changed the game with the 2D RPG spitework and would probably have Square upping their game for the FF1/2 remakes!

I didn't want to provide misinformation in case I got it wrong, but yeah it got a number of Sports games. One which I love is Windjammers!

Nazca is IREM's Old Team so that could be awkward! Would be brilliant though if one of them tried. I could also imagine Data East having a go at the time too!

Data East is a great suggestion! I didn't even think of them. They definitely had the chops to put out solid RPGs (and pretty much any other genre).

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Data East is a great suggestion! I didn't even think of them. They definitely had the chops to put out solid RPGs (and pretty much any other genre).

Doesn't PAON own them now? I know DotEmu do a lot of their stuff.

Out of all of the franchises SNK owns, Metal Slug would have made sense to make into an RPG although I would have crossed it with Shock Troopers and Ikari Warrior characters to beef up the Party Line up!

I think at this point a Samurai Shodown RPG remaster would be good enough.

 

[The Snake]

It's interesting that they developed and published a number of RPGs on other platforms. Unfortunately, those have been mostly forgotten with time.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I want you to explain your font size.

 

[Komatsu]

SNK did develop a pretty nice ARPG in the 8-bit era: Crystalis.

 

[Shifty]

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?

I figure it's down to the Neo Geo's arcade roots. Offhand, I can't think of any titles that aren't arcadey, let alone any that are long-form enough to approach JRPG kind of length.

SNK did develop a pretty nice ARPG in the 8-bit era: Crystalis.

Hell yeah, Crystalis was rad.

A bit obtuse at points, but it hit a bunch of notes that I really wanted out of an ARPG. HD remake please.

 

[Cattlyst]

Probably would have cost $8000 a copy if they'd invested the time to craft an RPG; going off the price of the average SNK arcade port to the Neo-Geo!

 

[baphomet]

Because RPGs wouldn't work in the arcade.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

I want you to explain your font size.

I figured people on the internet have bad eyes like me so I made it eye friendly.

SNK did develop a pretty nice ARPG in the 8-bit era: Crystalis.

I need to get back to that game....and they made an RPG on the PS1 as well but it sadly never came out in Europe.

Because RPGs wouldn't work in the arcade.

I did mention that it is understandable why they made certain genres a priority, but some Neo Geo games didn't come out on the MVS, which I would have thought that perhaps they would make at least one RPG on the Neo Geo to show what a beautiful Arcade styled RPG would look like! Would have been epic!

 

[Havoc2049]

The Neo Geo Pocket Color has Biomotor Unitron, Evolution, Faselei. Dive Alert and Dark Arms: Beast Buster.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

To answer the question:

Honestly, I think something like Crossed Swords is probably the best approach they could've taken to a sort of RPG. You get upgrades, there's a shop, but it keeps the focus squarely on beating dudes up. Once you lose that focus, it's not a game that really fits the Neo Geo ethos anymore. Coulda been cool to see a Square-style RPG with SNK-tier graphics, but outside of visuals, I'm not sure how interesting it'd be on the platform.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

no idea same reason i kinda dislike playing the megadrive.
as it lacks rpgs like the snezzy did

Not sure if serious.

That's only one region, not including Shining Force.

Comparing this to a platform that has no rpgs is odd.

 

[Spukc]

Not sure if serious.

That's only one region, not including Shining Force.

Comparing this to a platform that has no rpgs is odd.

Now compare it to the snes

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Now compare it to the snes

Finish them all and we can talk.

 

[Bakkus]

Finish them all and we can talk.

By this logic no one has any right to rate any console, genre or even video game.

Yeah, I know; r/woooosh

 

[Spukc]

Finish them all and we can talk.

If you are talking snes i almost did

 

[vkbest]

Subjective opinion: JRPGs didn't really get popular among the console crowd until the mid/late 90s following FF7. Western RPGs didn't get popular until a full generation later with stuff like Morrowind and KotOR. A lot of the hype for the 8-bit and 16-bit gems came years later when kids who couldn't afford those games in their heyday finally got access through secondhand sales and emulators. These games weren't considered huge system-sellers in their native era.

So it's no surprise that SNK/ADK ignored the genre. You know what genre they had a lot of (which you didn't mention in the OP)? Sports and racing games. Those were still hugely popular in the 90s. Why put a ton of effort into a made-for-the-system JRPG when you could be porting your fans' favorite racing games and sports titles to the console?

My fan-wish would've been for someone like Nazca or IREM (both of whom put a ton of games on the system) to make an RPG. The spritework and music production in their games is amazing, and they could've easily transferred those skills over to developing a memorable RPG.

FF and DQ were selling millions in japan before morrowind or kotor released. You are completely wrong, JRPG was pretty popular on that years on Japan, SNK is a Japanese company and Japan was their main market

If they didn’t develop a JRPG is probably because their main market was arcades and not the home console

 

[DiscoJer]

JRPGs were fairly niche in the 90s. I remember getting a SNES later into its life and it was almost impossible to get JRPGs because they were all out of print, save Secret of Evermore. Thankfully the internet existed then and I was able to get several for reasonable prices, but stores were selling them for like 2x retail (and used)

 

[K1Expwy]

The Neo Geo Pocket Color has Biomotor Unitron, Evolution, Faselei. Dive Alert and Dark Arms: Beast Buster.

Also an Ogre Battle game that was fan-translated recently

I don't believe there are any AES exclusive games, are there? (obv not counting homebrew or posthumous games) Just a handful of Neogeo CD exclusives including SSRPG.
AES was a chance for fat wallet gamers to conveniently play arcade games at home. Unlike NGPC, AES wasn't treated or marketed as competition for the affordable consoles with made-for-home genres.

SS is an RPG that few people and even fewer outside of Japan have seen with their own eyes to this day, never mind bothered to play due to price and language barrier. An AES RPG would have ended up the same way, especially with those $200 carts ($390 adjusted for 2019).
Imagine how much an AES-only RPG that was never localized would go for in the resale market. Some Metal Slug games on AES carts are valued at $5000 for example.

 

[petran79]

I wonder also why they didn't make a 16bit version of Athena and Psycho Soldier, using the kof sprite animations. Ikari Warriors had Shock Troopers spin-off at least. Athena was back then the company's most popular character.

SNK targeted an older demographic while JRPGs were for a younger audience. Though SNK made or published many fantasy arcade games whose world could rival many jrpgs.

Eg Kabuki Clash:Far East of Eden has very good animation and a very good fantasy world.. One of the first games by Racjin, who went also to develop Wizardry:Tale of the Forsaken Land later and co-develop other rpgs with square or alone. And even take huge anime franchises like Naruto, fma and Bleach.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

FF and DQ were selling millions in japan before morrowind or kotor released. You are completely wrong, JRPG was pretty popular on that years on Japan, SNK is a Japanese company and Japan was their main market

If they didn’t develop a JRPG is probably because their main market was arcades and not the home console

A handful of franchises sellling millions in Japan =/= popular among the console crowd compared to the other stuff I mentioned.

 

[nush]

Subjective opinion: JRPGs didn't really get popular among the console crowd until the mid/late 90s following FF7. Western RPGs didn't get popular until a full generation later with stuff like Morrowind and KotOR. A lot of the hype for the 8-bit and 16-bit gems came years later when kids who couldn't afford those games in their heyday finally got access through secondhand sales and emulators. These games weren't considered huge system-sellers in their native era.

So it's no surprise that SNK/ADK ignored the genre. You know what genre they had a lot of (which you didn't mention in the OP)? Sports and racing games. Those were still hugely popular in the 90s. Why put a ton of effort into a made-for-the-system JRPG when you could be porting your fans' favorite racing games and sports titles to the console?

That's right, FF7 was the big breakthrough success. That's not to say there were not RPG fans but translations, cost of carts and added back-up memory made them a risk so they were made in risk averse small numbers. From my own experience as a Master System owner in the late 80's the most expensive game was Phantasy Star, I think I only ever saw one copy of that at retail. The other RPGs on the system were similarly hard to find or even see a copy (I did manage to get a copy of Ys through a trade though).

I think Western RPGs were a lot more popular but they were on Home Computer and when consoles were able to run those games at a PC level then they became popular on console after FF7 had opened the market.

 

[vkbest]

A handful of franchises sellling millions in Japan =/= popular among the console crowd compared to the other stuff I mentioned.

Final fantasy, Dragon Quest, Ys, tales of, Seiken densetsu, tactics ogre, lunar, Zelda, front mission, romancing saga. Those are some games were popular on Japan on those years, those games sold more units on Japan that Neo Geo units on the world (less than 1 million worldwide around of 1997)

So you are wrong. Neo geo wouldn’t create a JRPG because low sales on their consoles, you wouldn’t create a JRPG for arcades right?, not because was impopular genre like you are implying

 

[Starlight Lotice]

It is kind of interesting, because I wouldn't personally pay $200 to play a Fighting game as I personally feel that those games don't have enough content despite the huge effort the animators do with the sprites, characters and backgrounds, if not because you usually have a Vs Mode (the meat of the game) and an Arcade/Story Mode, that's it.

Whereas an RPG in the long run has more content and room to try out new systems and create a long lasting impression.

I understand though that SNKs audience paid top dollar for Arcade ports of their favourite fighting games, but it is surprising that beyond a few genres that fit the arcade model that SNK didn't at least look into it later in the systems life after the success of Final Fantasy VII.

Crossed Swords as someone mentioned is a great example of something very close to it, and perhaps they could have expanded on that.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Samurai Spirits RPG was their attempt. Came out on NGCD. Looked through comments but didn’t see it mentioned (maybe I missed it)

People just didn’t come to SNK hardware for rpg’s...they came for perfect arcade ports. I’d guess The Samurai Spirits RPG sold poorly and they never thought about doing it again

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Final fantasy, Dragon Quest, Ys, tales of, Seiken densetsu, tactics ogre, lunar, Zelda, front mission, romancing saga. Those are some games were popular on Japan on those years, those games sold more units on Japan that Neo Geo units on the world (less than 1 million worldwide around of 1997)

So you are wrong. Neo geo wouldn’t create a JRPG because low sales on their consoles, you wouldn’t create a JRPG for arcades right?, not because was impopular genre like you are implying

Japanese RPGs weren't system sellers until PS1, though, and that's my point. Pushing RPGs on Neo Geo wouldn't have moved the needle. Yet, in the late 90s when RPGs became more popular worldwide, even SNK decided to make one for their hardware. That tells me they didn't see it as a genre worth pushing on their system.

 

[vkbest]

Japanese RPGs weren't system sellers until PS1, though, and that's my point. Pushing RPGs on Neo Geo wouldn't have moved the needle. Yet, in the late 90s when RPGs became more popular worldwide, even SNK decided to make one for their hardware. That tells me they didn't see it as a genre worth pushing on their system.

Your point is wrong, because you are thinking about West, and we are talking about JRPG, genre pretty popular in Japan from 1985 to now. Neo Geo was arcade board first, home console after. SNK would make games you would play on arcades, you wouldn’t play a > 20 hours rpg on arcade

 

[Rolling_Start]

An RPG of the same production quality of typical Neo Geo games would have been very expensive to make, I reckon, and wouldn't have been able to make money in the arcade market where Neo Geo really paid for itself.

It's a pity, as a Mega budget 800Mb (100MB) RPG in the early 90s would have been amazing. Even an awesome game like 1994s Phantasy Star 4 (one of my favourite games of all time) was only on a 24 Mb / 3 MB cart iirc. huge, colourful, well animated sprites with and kinds of scaling and sprite rotation jiggerypokery, story progressing semi animated scenes, massive variety of sound effects.

Would have been boss.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Your point is wrong, because you are thinking about West, and we are talking about JRPG, genre pretty popular in Japan from 1985 to now. Neo Geo was arcade board first, home console after. SNK would make games you would play on arcades, you wouldn’t play a > 20 hours rpg on arcade

You're seeking an argument where there is none, using points that have no backing.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

You're seeking an argument where there is none, using points that have no backing.

Did you change your avatar? That dirty PCB is giving me anxiety.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Did you change your avatar? That dirty PCB is giving me anxiety.

Yeah I changed it.

 

[Virex]

They knew their audience. And knew what they wanted......well mostly knew what they wanted.