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Reuters: Sony credit downgraded to "BBB+"; Outlook Negative
- Thread starter Oblivion
- Start date
I've read about this on various occasions online. Here is a link I found that has some quotes from Steve Jobs during various keynote speeches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A3qoyVbbho
Will be interesting to see how Sony do from here on. I really think they are getting many things together now both hardware and software wise. The Sony tablet has been a superb piece of kit and is probably the best alternative for those who don't want to go the Apple route.
Megadragon15
Member
I'm surprised how many people would like to see Sony disappear still, years after the heated beginning of the console wars this gen. Sony still believes in having large first-party stables, employing many devs, green lighting so many different games, giving other devs (unproven/indy) a chance when no one else would, and outside of the stupid propriety memory issues they have been really open with allowing you choices of your hardware (ironically, installing whatever HDD you want for example).
Without Sony, MS would very possibly mimic nintendo's model. Without Sony's dominance, ninty wouldn't have tried something so off base. We'd be stuck in gaming limbo.
If Sony left gaming (which they won't, they'd liquidate some of their many other assets first as the Playstation is still their only product that can potentially reach "Walkman" status again), that would open up the spot for the inevitable 3rd manufacturer. It could open the door for someone like Samsung perhaps, but that's assuming an anti-consumer company doesn't leap in first.
Despite the horrific folly's Sony made with their console, they still ended up shipping far more than most expected. It shows there's still a demand for their product. There's zero reason for them to bow out.
Without Sony, MS would very possibly mimic nintendo's model. Without Sony's dominance, ninty wouldn't have tried something so off base. We'd be stuck in gaming limbo.
If Sony left gaming (which they won't, they'd liquidate some of their many other assets first as the Playstation is still their only product that can potentially reach "Walkman" status again), that would open up the spot for the inevitable 3rd manufacturer. It could open the door for someone like Samsung perhaps, but that's assuming an anti-consumer company doesn't leap in first.
Despite the horrific folly's Sony made with their console, they still ended up shipping far more than most expected. It shows there's still a demand for their product. There's zero reason for them to bow out.
Funny you said that, since as far as anythings concerned, Sony should be thanking Microsoft.
If it wasn't for Microsofts success with the 360, PS3 wouldnt be getting any games. When I see a multiplatform game on both 360 and PS3, I think they are very lucky it was relatively easy to port to PS3...
dragonelite
Member
Atleast last gen games were more like games and not interactive movies devs are going for.
Splash Wave
Member
I agree wholeheartedly with this post, but then this always comes to mind when thinking about why Sony is worthwhile:
I feel like this can go for the PS3 too, though to a lesser extent. It, by all accounts, the best "exclusive" line-up (Infamous, Uncharted, etc.), but aside from critical praise this doesn't amount to much in terms of selling consoles (if we think about the minimal worldwide sales disparity between PS3 and 360).
Could that be, perhaps because their 'exclusive' line up isn't the best?
Maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe, people think Gears is better than Uncharted? Maybe they think Crackdown is better than Infamous? Maybe they think Halo is better than Killzone? Maybe they even think Forza is better than Gran Turismo?
I know that may be 'left field' but who knows.
HocusPocus
Member
Well I think if you just took those four franchises on both machines, and totaled up their sales this gen then there would be a comfortable margin for Microsoft. I guess in reality that the market would agree with you where this board would not.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
REVENGE FOR THE DREAMCAST!!!!!!!!
That's neither here nor there. Most on this board don't live in reality.
Many on this board still believe there are these mysterious people, millions upon millions of them, just biding their time, waiting in hiding for the PS3 price to drop to this magical level 7 years into the generation with a new console on the horizon, and then, THEN is when they'll make their move and buy the PS3 in droves thanks to all the quality exclusives that apparently no one in the world except ultra knowledgeable GAFfers are aware of.
At this point in time, I dont' know why it's still a 'race' to them.
I've been saying for so long that I want Sony to focus on nothing more than making money, and large amounts of it, and then have both Sony and MS release 'Wii style' consoles next gen. By Wii style, I mean consoles that are essentially slightly specced up versions of their previous consoles, which will allow both companies to sell a super cheap yet still powerful enough for the majority that makes them tonnes of fat cash.
It also allows developers to make cheaper high quality games from the get go.
I'ts basically a win for everyone involved in the games industry except graphics whores, and in all reality, they don't mean shit in the real world.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Sega deserved to fail and die.
Hell yeah!
Technosteve
Banned
Sony needs to make something people will want to buy priced at price people would want to pay. PS3 launch price
Splash Wave
Member
I wasn't implying that, necessarily (in fact, I don't particularly like the franchises I mentioned), but I reference them as an examples of Sony's greater interest in first-party development, which hasn't really paid off. I don't disagree with your post.
lol, ouch.
Microsoft was fostering plenty of first party development early on (when it technically matters more). But remember, we're not going to hear as much about MS and Nintendo first party studio development on here.
Your post, at least to me, read like you were trying to explain how the console with the best first party line up wasn't selling.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
The Master System and Mega Drive were great, but Sega began the process of killing themselves slowly when they shat out the Mega CD, and followed it with the 32X, the Saturn and the DC. Their descent into shittiness and complete irrelevancy, by their own hand no less, ensured that they eventually deserved to croak and die. Sega was a house divided against itself, with SoA fighting SoJ because they were both dumbfucks.
Extra Sauce
Member
So... does this really mean anything on the consumer side? Or is the worst case scenario that Sony will be bought by another company, and continue to make consoles?
I mean I don't particularly care for their movie studio and televisions and whatnot... I'm just worried about the Playstation brand.
I mean I don't particularly care for their movie studio and televisions and whatnot... I'm just worried about the Playstation brand.
Rest easy my friend, you will be avenged.
HAL_Laboratory
Member
Sony is gonna have to get a second job to pull out of this one.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Lol, no. BD-J didn't even begin to compare with HDi until PS3 came out. The issue almost made Disney back HD-DVD instead.
cooljeanius
Member
So who's left out there that hasn't had their credit rating downgraded recently?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Microsoft, Automatic Data Processing, Exxon-Mobil, Johnson & Johnson.
People don't seem to understand this but marketshare is meaningless without profit.
Example:
A) sells a product for $10 and makes $5 profit
B) sells a product for $6 and makes $(-1) loss
B can have 70% of the market and will still be losing. In fact, the more you sell the more money you lose
same here
the PR and anti-Dreamcast FUD before the PS2 launch was one of the dirtiest I've witness in my life
Korea played Japan's game faster and harder. Japan and similarly Korea, has no culture of innovation, so the key differentiator is how fast of a reactor you are. Samsung can react and bring products faster to the market.
Read 'Sony vs Samsung' if you really want to learn how and why it happened.
Xbox is #1 confirmed.
AranhaHunter
Banned
I think Sony is trying and are taking it very seriously (bought SE JV), Panny, Sharp, and other JP companies don't seem to be paying attention to the mobile market though.
The Xperia lineup for Sony seems to be good. Their new phones under the Sony banter (Ion and S) even seem to be comparable, if not favorable, against the Galaxy.
Honestly, Sony came to the tablet and smartphone game a little too late, but their latest efforts seem to be quality. The tablets and smartphones they are producing are quality. Their problem now is lack of options and lack of phones on different carriers. Sony Ericsson started bringing their products to the US way too late. You can only get the xperia products on att and verizon, not available for sprint if that's your carrier of choice. Meanwhile you can get a Galaxy (and other models) on att, verizon, sprint, etc.
That's not even taking marketing in consideration. I'm not exaggerating when I say I have never seen a Sony (Ericsson) commercial in my life. They need to get more aggressive in the US.
Why? Would it be any better if the Vita put out bad numbers and THEN people said that? Do you really think anyone would take it any better after it came out?
How about we just knock off the "doomed" and "dead" nonsense all together instead of kicking it down the road. Im not attacking you btw, Im just saying.
People don't seem to understand this but marketshare is meaningless without profit.
Example:
A) sells a product for $10 and makes $5 profit
B) sells a product for $6 and makes $(-1) loss
B can have 70% of the market and will still be losing. In fact, the more you sell the more money you lose
.
Which is why, as I said before. Sony needs to ignore all the fanboys and concentrate purely on making lots of money right now.
The idea of marketshare should be the LAST thing on Sony's mind right now. In fact, it shouldn't even be on their mind until next gen. Even then it shouldn't matter to them in their current predicament.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Yeah, that doesn't sound like Sony at all. Sega made some very stupid business decisions which ultimately cost them their hardware division, even though they kept pumping out some great games until the very end (and beyond).
Then don't buy the games that are like that and instead buy the games they also make/publish that are more simple and "game-like"? There are people that like the blockbuster movie experience you know, and they buy it up. You make it sound like no one wants that and that's why they're not number one.
charlequin
Banned
Pretty much.
If anything, the problem with the Vita is that they learned the lessons of the PS3 extremely well but didn't learn the "lessons" of the PSP well enough, in part because the system actually wound up pretty successful in the long run.
The Dreamcast had ultra-niche software for an ultra-niche market; it never had anything remotely ready to take on the kind of stuff PS2 was pulling down a year after release. Even putting aside Sega's financial problems (the thing that actually killed it) the software was simply not performing at the level necessary to sustain success over a generation.
I will give you, though, that the Dreamcast is a nearly-unique example of a weak console getting rolled by a stronger one -- the only other remotely arguable case is the Genesis, and that was much closer to a fair matchup than later generations. Even in the PS2's own generation, both its successors massively outmatched it (and the Xbox had far, far superior versions of every single multiplatform game) and yet it was completely irrelevant in the marketplace.
If you want to sum up Microsoft's success in outmaneuvering Sony this generation in a nutshell, noting that like 10x as many people want to play multiplayer brodowns as want to play pretty interactive movies would be a good starting place.
Early launch with people talking their friends into buying in or those just seeing it in action, cheaper price, the xbl is better stigma, marketing/media darling, those are why they're successful. It's not like there's not an overwhelming number of MP shooters on the PS3 exactly.
While many people play shooters on the PS3, you can say that Sony's fanbase is possibly a bit more diverse. I myself love shooters, but I love other types of games as well, thus why I prefer Sony in the end for consoles for example.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I haven't personally bought a Sony product since the PS2 generation. I can't say I'll miss them if they go down.
CadetMahoney
Member
Fixed and should be the thread title.
Complete with some gifs and a revival of the chalkboard.gif. Still some saving to be done if you ask me.
Looking at games sales, I don't think that generalisation is true.
Black Lawn Finale
Banned
Just because game sales show that people jump on whatever media hyped sensation is currently selling doesn't make it any less true.
Punchpudding
Member
Don't forget stables.
Yes, but its still a diverse set of genres. No one genre is really persistently being set aside on either the PS3 or 360.
That was the US Government, not Nintendo. Learn to google better. Nintendo doesn't even have an S&P credit rating (as far as I can tell). They have no existing debt and no need take out any loans any time in the predictable future, so it makes sense that they're not rated.
CadetMahoney
Member
Gaf has the best finance experts on the net. None of this affects Sony's plans for their uber powerful PS4 that will be x times more powerful than the xbox3. They got like 20 billion locked in a safe somewhere.