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[Spike]

I gotta be honest though. I think there may definitely be something to this pick-up-and-play easy to learn game thing that Nintendo seems to be gunning for. I have spent more time on Zuma, Hexic and Geo Wars EACH then I did with Kameo. And likewise, after slugging down 500+ dollars at launch for my 360, I didn't play it for about 2 weeks while I discovered Guitar Hero. Who knows... some of these unique games for Rev might really capture my attention. I can't wait to see.

My thoughts exactly. Better graphics do not equal a better game. Period.

 

[dynamitejim]

...that Nintendo wanted developers to focus on getting their controller working before delving into its other capabilities? A pretty good strategy, I agree, when dealing with such a different controller.

I highly doubt it takes that long to program for the Revmote. And the people that handle game design (ideas for what the controller will be used for) aren't the people that handle the technical aspects of the game's graphics. The two groups can work separately without Nintendo having to force them to work on a GC instead of more powerful final hardware.

 

[PolyGone]

Serious question here:

PolyGone, do you work for Nintendo? If so, you should get a bonus, dude. If not... whoa.

:lol

Hey, I'm looking forward to the PS3 just as much as the Rev. I'm kind of sitting on the fence with the XBOX360 though, I may buy one once they come down in price and games like Blue Dragon are available in english. I'm also into the art side of games, being a modeller and texture artist myself, and while I don't work for Nintendo, I will say this: the next gen systems are not 10x better than the current. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

If you want the numbers from my collection, they are as follows:
81 PSX games / 30 N64
42 PS2 games / 32 GC

edit: I owned an xbox at one point and about 10 games, had to sell it for the $$$

 

[Prine]

Compare Kameo shots from the gamecube to the ones on your 360. 2-3x better. EASILY. but no more than that.

let alone comparing GT4 to PGR3 or FN2 to FN3. You're wrong.

eh no. Those games have alot more going on then just better character models and sharper textures. Put it all together (lighting, animation, effects) and you have games that look significantly better.


MGS4, FN, GRAW, GoW are in another league compared to anything we've seen so far,

 

[Vieo]

That's true. But considering that 4 iterations of kits have already shipped to developers and there hasn't been any indication of something special coming with them besides the Revmote I find it unlikely this other secret is something significant.

Yeah. I also find it strange that after four iterations of the dev kits, we've yet to see a single screenshot, nor have any devs even mentioned a solid game concept, let alone a working game title and E3 is around the corner. Sounds like an information block out to me. If there's a big secret left and it was in any versions of the dev kit, that doesn't necessarily mean we'd hear about it and with the countless rev rumors floating around, even if we did hear about it, we'd probably regard it as "just more baseless speculation".

 

[PkunkFury]

Sorry, I'm not convinced. They said it would work on every screen as well as on beamers. That means it can not be the same technique that lightguns use. It uses Motion sensors. What I heard about the black part in front of the revmote is that it is infrared, used to power up/down the console. If there are sensors that can detect upwards movement, even very slow upwards movement, then it's okay. If not, no chance for lightgunlike-aiming.

I would be happy if I'm proved wrong.

We've already been told that the revmote is capable of 6 degree of freedom tracking. Also some of the demos the press played were similar to light gun games.

I'm almost positive the infra-red is used for 3D positional tracking, not powering on the console. The sensor bars are aware of the location of the front of the revmote at all times (as long as the revmote is facing the sensors). The 2 sensors triangulate for X and Y positions, and manage depth tracking using some tricks with photo-diodes. Internal gyros and accelerometers determine the rotation of the remote, and that data, coupled with the positional data, can determine a vector through space, towards the sensors, which describes where the remote is aiming.

 

[Ryudo]

Was trying to show the same type of area. Kameo is a weird game, the castle is definately more impressive than the screenshot posted, but without any gc equivalent of the castle, i didn't use it.

I wasnt trying to sound like i was having a dig at you :thumbsup:

 

[Gaia Theory]

This thread features the same old shite:

1) Those that have not seen actual Revolution screen caps or video that have already made up their mind about the machine coming to this conclusion:

It needs more power captain!

Arguing till they're blue in the face that this lack of power will be the downfall of Nintendo.

2) Those that have not seen actual Revolution screen caps or video that have already made up their mind about the machine coming to this conclusion:

Everything Nintendo touches is gold!

Arguing till they're blue in the face that they've swam in this 'blue ocean' before and can't wait to waggle a wand like a jackass in front of their friends, all while having the most exciting, 'new generation' experience they've ever had.

Anyone else tired of the same old shite? I'm looking forward to E3 and until then, stfu.

 

[eeyore the donkey]

imma get a rev if it's 149 or 199...
i just hope the games really put the wand to good use instead of as an accessory or gimmick... need unique games, not gonna buy one to play madden with a wand know what im saying... give me non games....cooking, gardening, watercolor painting, decorating etc

 

[Polari]

give me non games....cooking, gardening, watercolor painting, decorating etc

Couldn't you just go outside and do those like, now? Cooking and gardening might work, but I don't really see how watercolor painting or decorating could be made into a compelling videogame.

I'm sure Nintendo will manage to prove me wrong though. :lol

 

[japtor]

It could be done very easily. I mean, the controller could manipulate the ship up/down left/right very easily. You'd just wave it around basically; wouldn't need to use the analog stick add on.

i know its already been replied to and all, but youre an idiot.

 

[PkunkFury]

I'm hoping the "touch-generation" of the revolution involves a heavy multi-player focus. I agree with the poster who suggested brain training wouldn't work on a home console, however I think a multi-player quiz game that uses some remote based pointing and reflexes could be interesting. Local multi-player takes advantage of the large screen format which DS doesn't have available.

I'm picturing software that tries to shift the attention of family board game players to video gaming (think electronic pictionary or jenga). The fact that the controller can be held with one hand and used a pointing device might make these casual games a more comfortable fit. Also, games like these, going beyond what mario party has already started, could appeal to a wide range of people who normally wouldn't touch a game controller (though I'm sure most of us would detest them).

A lot of people are playing DVD based board games these days (like that Scene-It game and similar music trivia games). As someone who is used to interactive media, I can stand waiting for those crappy things to load and dealing with the convoluted menus systems. A video game machine as a perfect fit for that type of stuff.

Even the cooking and composing games could take this approach, and I remember hearing that the remote sensor could track more than one remote.

 

[Fishie flop oog]

This information vindicates Teddman.
People here gave him hell when he made the Rev dev kit controller post.

 

[eeyore the donkey]

Couldn't you just go outside and do those like, now? Cooking and gardening might work, but I don't really see how watercolor painting or decorating could be made into a compelling videogame.

I'm sure Nintendo will manage to prove me wrong though. :lol

prove him wrong nintendo!!!

 

[PkunkFury]

Couldn't you just go outside and do those like, now? Cooking and gardening might work, but I don't really see how watercolor painting or decorating could be made into a compelling videogame.

I'm sure Nintendo will manage to prove me wrong though. :lol

Much like Nintendogs, the appeal to these games (based on simple real life activities) would be the lack of consequences. A cooking game wouldn't require you to purchase the ingredients, and would likely simplify cleaning up the mess (of course you wouldn't get to eat the food either). A gardening game could be developed around a real time clock like Animal crossing, allowing you to prune and shape the plants and such. Then you wouldn't have to worry about buying the plants, figuring out what to do with them in the winter, forgetting to water them, etc. I know I would be very interested in either of those games.

 

[El Papa]

Yeah, an Iron Chef game would be kickass.

 

[John Harker]

So final dev kits not till June, eh?

And a launch in November?
... 5 months, MAX, at full developmental resources...
That really instills a lot of confidence for epic AAA titles, doesnt it?
Especially when a game like Zelda takes, I dunno, 4-5 YEARS?

Expect huge reliance on "Touch Generation"-type software and the Virtual Console the first 6-8 months...

Also makes you question the lineup of the PS3, if you ask me.
Thats going to take a lot more time and resources for epic games... Spring launch my arse.

 

[PolyGone]

So final dev kits not till June, eh?

And a launch in November?
... 5 months, MAX, at full developmental resources...
That really instills a lot of confidence for epic AAA titles, doesnt it?
Especially when a game like Zelda takes, I dunno, 4-5 YEARS?

Expect huge reliance on "Touch Generation"-type software and the Virtual Console the first 6-8 months...

Also makes you question the lineup of the PS3, if you ask me.
Thats going to take a lot more time and resources for epic games... Spring launch my arse.

Nintendo will be the first out the gate with others to follow, kinda sucks but not that surprising.

 

[DSN2K]

ive become abit of a graphics whore in recent months(blame my time reading B3D) so the lack of power in the Revolution is beginning to worry me.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

So final dev kits not till June, eh?

And a launch in November?
... 5 months, MAX, at full developmental resources...
That really instills a lot of confidence for epic AAA titles, doesnt it?
Especially when a game like Zelda takes, I dunno, 4-5 YEARS?

Expect huge reliance on "Touch Generation"-type software and the Virtual Console the first 6-8 months...

Also makes you question the lineup of the PS3, if you ask me.
Thats going to take a lot more time and resources for epic games... Spring launch my arse.

Well, as with the arrival of the control stick, Nintendo's only chance is to deliver the "epic" content (on which they've been working for probably a couple of years) themselves, and not to rely on 3rd parties. Without Mario 64, the change-over would have taken much, MUCH longer.

 

[VOOK]

So final dev kits not till June, eh?

And a launch in November?
... 5 months, MAX, at full developmental resources...
That really instills a lot of confidence for epic AAA titles, doesnt it?
Especially when a game like Zelda takes, I dunno, 4-5 YEARS?

Expect huge reliance on "Touch Generation"-type software and the Virtual Console the first 6-8 months...

Also makes you question the lineup of the PS3, if you ask me.
Thats going to take a lot more time and resources for epic games... Spring launch my arse.

Zelda says hello!

 

[PolyGone]

ive become abit of a graphics whore in recent months(blame my time reading B3D) so the lack of power in the Revolution is beginning to worry me.

You should check out Gaia Theory's post, just above.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

...but it's difficult to imagine a controller less suited to 2d shooters than the waggle wand. it's also difficult to imagine the revolution's likely audience playing 2d shooters.

I dunno, I guess I don't see any problems whatsoever for 2D shooters. At the most basic level you could just turn the controller sideways and use it NES style, at a more complex level you could use the DPD to steer with wrist movements and use the A button and B trigger to shoot. Then there's always the nunchaku attachment.

 

[John Harker]

Well, as with the arrival of the control stick, Nintendo's only chance is to deliver the "epic" content (on which they've been working for probably a couple of years) themselves, and not to rely on 3rd parties. Without Mario 64, the change-over would have taken much, MUCH longer.

Does anyone know how long Mario 64 was in development?
And that didn't come out at launch, for the record.

How long was it in development vs how long "final kits" for the N64 were done?

 

[I <3 Katamari]

Does anyone know how long Mario 64 was in development?
And that didn't come out at launch, for the record.

Um, yes it did.

 

[imastalker co.]

Does anyone know how long Mario 64 was in development?
And that didn't come out at launch, for the record.

im probably reading this wrong, but did you just say mario 64 wasn't at launch?

 

[John Harker]

im probably reading this wrong, but did you just say mario 64 wasn't at launch?

Didnt it come out a few months after?

Edit: Well, this may be because I didn't get an N64 at launch, but I thought Mario 64 came out just a few short months after the system launched. Or maybe thats just when I got it... well, either way, my initial question is still posed.

 

[imastalker co.]

are you in the N64 launched at $249.99 club as well?

 

[sterlingice]

I highly doubt it takes that long to program for the Revmote. And the people that handle game design (ideas for what the controller will be used for) aren't the people that handle the technical aspects of the game's graphics. The two groups can work separately without Nintendo having to force them to work on a GC instead of more powerful final hardware.

I'd imagine, once you are used to the 3D aspect of it, it's no different than programming something to collect mouse clicks on PC.

SI

 

[japtor]

I dunno, I guess I don't see any problems whatsoever for 2D shooters. At the most basic level you could just turn the controller sideways and use it NES style, at a more complex level you could use the DPD to steer with wrist movements and use the A button and B trigger to shoot. Then there's always the nunchaku attachment.

drohne already followed up on it...2 buttons isnt enough. well it is for most, but auto fire is nice (and is slightly different from regular fire in ketsui), and some games use a 3rd button for something else. galuda and galuda 2 can use 4 buttons if you include auto fire. ikaruga technically only needs 2, but i cant play it worth shit without the dedicated 3rd laser button (and a lot of people use a 4th hacked auto fire button in it as well).

but thats what the classic shell is for! if it has the gb micro dpad (or one of similar quality), it could be awesome. although i doubt itll have a 3 button in a row setup that i depend on for shooters (saturn and gc both had this), so itll probably suck for me for some games. and theres always the possibility of a true joystick attachment/shell, or at least hacking one up using the classic shell would be doable.

 

[DefectiveReject]

It's finally starting again.

For more than a year I've chatted with developers, gone to see pubishers, and it's always the same. I hear them talk about their Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 products, but they either don't know or don't care about Nntendo's new generation console, codenamed Revolution. I'd call it frustrating, but that'd be an understatement.

But times, they are a changing.

I've visted a handful of publishers in the last couple of weeks. I'm always armed with the question. It feels like I've asked it a million times. "Do you have anything in the works for Revolution?"

Usually, this query is met with blank stares or occasionally laughter. But more recently, the answers have been dramatically different. A rep for a major studio will come up to me and say, "We need to talk. We've got something for you." Another answers: "We are extremely excited about Revolution and we will have product for it at E3 2006."

Devs are getting kits. And I know of a half dozen major games -- not the ones announced by Nintendo, but real, tangible, working, playable things -- that are underway and ramping up. Everyone seems extremely enthusiastic about their projects, and based on what I know of a couple of them, it's easy to understand why.

It's contagious. I'm hyped. And I can't wait for this May.





This whole new generation terminology Nintendo loves to use, I'm starting to beleive it. Clearly I'm not the only one. Look at the apes from 2001 in he above pictures. They are ready for a whopper of a change in the industry, too.

Seems Rev really is looking to have some support after all!
Link Lank Loo

 

[PkunkFury]

So final dev kits not till June, eh?

And a launch in November?
... 5 months, MAX, at full developmental resources...
That really instills a lot of confidence for epic AAA titles, doesnt it?
Especially when a game like Zelda takes, I dunno, 4-5 YEARS?

Expect huge reliance on "Touch Generation"-type software and the Virtual Console the first 6-8 months...

Also makes you question the lineup of the PS3, if you ask me.
Thats going to take a lot more time and resources for epic games... Spring launch my arse.

Apparantly you missed this quote in the article:

"Software houses tell IGN that any studio familiar with GameCube's architecture will find that they can get their Revolution projects up and running in no time. The make-up of the systems is very similar"

Couple that with the fact that only one or two worthwhile GamCube games are releasing this year and I think we can get a feel for the Revolution launch. Also, programming for the wand shouldn't be any more difficult than programming for a stylus with extra dimensions. Once you get the position and orientation values you can program as normal. Coming up with the ideas will be much more difficult than implementing them.

I think we can expect games that have had some time put into them, just they will likely have been ported from GC, i.e. good games with updated graphics... not unlike many XBox360 launches.

PS3 I think might be a different story, but I should hope dev kits have been out for it much longer.

 

[Oblivion]

BTW, unlike someone else, I'm not a blind ass fanboy.

You have a SotC avatar, you must be a Sony fanboy omg!!11

lol see what I did there?


As for the Kameo thing, it looked pretty nice in motion. The 360 version still doesn't seem 10 times better. Looks great, much better than GC, but not that order of magnitude bigger.

By the way, when did third parties get final dev. kits for 360?

 

[Snow]

By the way, when did third parties get final dev. kits for 360?

A quick google search turned this post from CliffyB up. On 2 September '05 he wrote that he got his final dev kit that day.

 

[Oblivion]

A quick google search turned this post from CliffyB up. On 2 September '05 he wrote that he got his final dev kit that day.

Thank you. So roughly 3 months before the 360 was released. Revolution is very similar to GC, so I would say 5 months (if that happens) would be plenty of time (assuming they HAVE been working on games for a good while before).

 

[WindyMan]

I think what Nintendo is doing with developers is the right move. A lot of studios weren't convinced about the controller after seeing the TGS presentation either, so Nintendo could just send a controller development kit over to show them what was up. I just wish we'd hear some updates on what publishers are doing, rather then developers.


Okay GAF, now answer me this. Why on earth are you trying to make comparisons about things "looking 2x-3x times better"? You can't quantify how good something looks, so how can you say something looks X-times better than something else? Only by way of opinion. It seems that some of you people are arguing over opinion as if it were straight fact.

Something that is 2x-3x more powerful, on the other hand, can be quantified. A boost in horsepower by that much is significant.

 

[capslock]

So final dev kits not till June, eh?

And a launch in November?
... 5 months, MAX, at full developmental resources...
That really instills a lot of confidence for epic AAA titles, doesnt it?
Especially when a game like Zelda takes, I dunno, 4-5 YEARS?

Expect huge reliance on "Touch Generation"-type software and the Virtual Console the first 6-8 months...

Also makes you question the lineup of the PS3, if you ask me.
Thats going to take a lot more time and resources for epic games... Spring launch my arse.

When did the final XBox 360 kits go out?

 

[AndoCalrissian]

An effective and compact design doesn't fall from the sky, you know? It's smaller, has more power, more functions.. I don't get all the whining.
Especially for the fact that we now already know for a long long time, that the hardware won't be that powerful.

I bet even when we get the first ingame pictures from the e3 there will be threads with > 50 pages bitching about bad graphics and whatnot..

btw I expect the price to be around 150-250 USD, depending on what they are packing with the Rev.. I just hope a shell, nunchuckwhateveritscalledthing and two revmotes are included. With two revmotes as a standard devs could carry out so much more.. but since it's Nintendo we're talking about, I don't expect them to get that right.

Well, if they include 2 revmotes, then they need to include two shells and two nunchaku attachments. So, maybe for $250, but that's still iffy. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice, but no one should expect it from any console manufacturer anymore.

 

[Oblivion]

When did the final XBox 360 kits go out?

I asked the same question a few posts up. Sep. 3 according to CliffyB.

 

[Snow]

Thank you. So roughly 3 months before the 360 was released. Revolution is very similar to GC, so I would say 5 months (if that happens) would be plenty of time (assuming they HAVE been working on games for a good while before).

This IGN article says they send them out middle to late August, so yeah, 3 months is about right.

 

[the androgyne]

Could have picked better shots yeah?

ps, Rare suck

 

[the androgyne]

Gotta love that cube IQ!

btw, i would have put fox but GCN's fur shading is too good for me to cut out quickly

 

[lappy4711]

Excuse me, but didn't anyone notice this:
"We have shipped over a thousand controller dev kits to developers so that they can begin getting experience with the controller mechanics,"
These are controller dev kits.

 

[Oblivion]

Excuse me, but didn't anyone notice this:
"We have shipped over a thousand controller dev kits to developers so that they can begin getting experience with the controller mechanics,"
These are controller dev kits.

Then why did they mention the CPU as well?

 

[Gahiggidy]

I just hope the graphics are alot closer to 360/PS3 then they are to GameCube.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Yeah. I also find it strange that after four iterations of the dev kits, we've yet to see a single screenshot, nor have any devs even mentioned a solid game concept, let alone a working game title and E3 is around the corner.

Nintendo devs have always been tight with the info. MS leaks like a sieve, and Sony have so many 3rd parties, it's impossible to control them all, but Nintendo? Bastards aren't saying anything, and refuse to be pressed on the issues. Man, I'm going to be getting all Jack Bauer at GDC, but I still expect nothing but the occasional knowing grin.

 

[MrSardonic]

i'm not too keen on nintendo using technology that's barely a step above present gen.

huh?

...but it's difficult to imagine a controller less suited to 2d shooters than the waggle wand.

why? surely the d-pad is still there?

if a game ignored very fine movements of the wand it'd sacrifice precision, and if it responded to fine movements it'd be impossible to hold still

There is no evidence to suggest this

 

[MrSardonic]

Seems Rev really is looking to have some support after all!
Link Lank Loo

Look at the apes from 2001 in he above pictures. They are ready for a whopper of a change in the industry, too.

WTF? Is Matt, by any chance, referring to one of my photoshops? Thanks for copying over Matt's post too, E3 looks set to be fantastic this year. Hope it lives up to the hype

 

[Nightbringer]

Do you remember Gamecube?

It was a very capable machine and now when the people see a new system with a motherboard of the same size of Revolution motherboard.

Are you worried about the power of the Revolution?

You only need to walk to a computer store and watch all the laptop computers for to have a good idea about the Revolution possible power.

Have you seen the MacBook Pro?

The motherboard is half of the size of the computer and it runs with a Core Duo 1.83 Ghz, and ATI X1600 Mobile, 512MB of main RAM, 128MB of graphics RAM, a Hard Disk, an iSight (webcam), a screen of 15,4 inches that is very bright and all this with a power supply of 60W.

You can continue to thing about a GCN Turbo but you must remember the GCN.

 

[PolyGone]

Do you remember Gamecube?

It was a very capable machine and now when the people see a new system with a motherboard of the same size of Revolution motherboard.

Are you worried about the power of the Revolution?

You only need to walk to a computer store and watch all the laptop computers for to have a good idea about the Revolution possible power.

Have you seen the MacBook Pro?

The motherboard is half of the size of the computer and it runs with a Core Duo 1.83 Ghz, and ATI X1600 Mobile, 512MB of main RAM, 128MB of graphics RAM, a Hard Disk, an iSight (webcam), a screen of 15,4 inches that is very bright and all this with a power supply of 60W.

You can continue to thing about a GCN Turbo but you must remember the GCN.

Just don't tell that to the Xbots or PlayStation fanboys because they'll take offense that their gigantic consoles aren't a billion times more powerful...