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Revolution Specuation Thread Mark II (UNCONFIRMED RUMORS AND EVERYTHING ELSE GO HERE)
- Thread starter choplifter
- Start date
PhoenixDark
Banned
...
I have no comment. It's time to move on :lol :lol :lol
I have no comment. It's time to move on :lol :lol :lol
Nightbringer
Don´t hit me for my bad english plase
See all the things that they are doing with DS and you can get an idea of all they want to do with Revolution.
Forget things like 3D glasses, holograms and all this shit and start to see the Revolution like a living room computer.
Forget things like 3D glasses, holograms and all this shit and start to see the Revolution like a living room computer.
You guys seem PROUD that you mislead an army of hungry nintendo whores.
Ok, maybe you should be proud. That is pretty awesome.
No, I think that's 360/PS3's goal. With the Blu-Ray, and the HD, and the incredible XBL 360... and the better power.
Revolution is like DS, the goal is innovation. It's purely gaming with a Nintendo touch.
Ok, maybe you should be proud. That is pretty awesome.
Nightbringer said:
No, I think that's 360/PS3's goal. With the Blu-Ray, and the HD, and the incredible XBL 360... and the better power.
Revolution is like DS, the goal is innovation. It's purely gaming with a Nintendo touch.
PhoenixDark
Banned
7Th said:
You must have posted the joke ones. I did the real ones. -_- :lol
Amir0x said:
Not proud at all, although it was very fun at the time. But I'm not supposed to talk about it anymore.
PkunkFury
Member
Amir0x said:
Cost really isn't the barrier here. "Good enough" 3D can be achieved with shutter glasses:
( http://www.razor3donline.com/dvdul3dex.html , http://www.splitfish.com/eyefx3dweb.pdf )
and even new, better anachrome glasses at home. The problem is getting people to want to wear glasses when they play games, dealing with the fact the that not everyone has a display compatible with whatever technology you chose to display the 3D, and dealing with the fact that many people get sick when their eyes are tricked into seeing 3D. These are the reasons to disbelieve Nintendo will include 3D, and they are pretty good ones. It's a lot to have to deal with, lots of potential for consumers to be upset with the product when they try it at home. That is why any sort of 3D that doesn't rely on its own display will have to be an option in each game that can be turned on or off from the pause menu
a few more generations until 3D is probably not accurate; 3D movies are likely to take over Hollywood in the next few years. If that is the case, the push for 3D games may hit next generation. It would put nintendo in a good position to get the jump on a consumer solution to 3D at home (since people aren't lining up to purchase from razor3D or splitfish)
PhoenixDark said:
ugh...
Hey...what I'm suggesting for 3D is cheap, doable & believable...unlike the projector/battery business...just throwing that out there. Also, in no way am I suggesting that this IS the "secret" or whatever...I've stated a couple of times in fact that this would be just a secondary afterthought type deal like the Rumble Pak or the Super FX chip.
As far as the "secret" goes I think the most likely canidate is some sort of special force feedback. Not suggesting resistance force feedback or whatever, but something more than just rumble...especially if there's 2 gyros (front & back) in the REVmote. Other possibilities/mysteries:
-LCD add-on making it a perfect mobile game system
-why is the front panel flap so big if all it houses is the SD Card slot?
-"touch sensitivity"...could be just refering to special force feedback...or maybe the controller can sense how hard the player is gripping it (totally possible, but that would probably mean the asthetics of the REVmote have changed for durrability/ergonomical purposes...most likely just on the underside though)
-that devkit REVmote with the face blacked out...probably fake, but why is the face blacked out? a small player specific data screen? a built-in mic? something else?
-what's up with the ventilation on the bottom of the console (maybe the system runs hot and they put vents there to prevent it melting the stand?) & nearer towards the front on the underside there's like a connection plate of some kind...what's that all about?
As far as the "secret" goes I think the most likely canidate is some sort of special force feedback. Not suggesting resistance force feedback or whatever, but something more than just rumble...especially if there's 2 gyros (front & back) in the REVmote. Other possibilities/mysteries:
-LCD add-on making it a perfect mobile game system
-why is the front panel flap so big if all it houses is the SD Card slot?
-"touch sensitivity"...could be just refering to special force feedback...or maybe the controller can sense how hard the player is gripping it (totally possible, but that would probably mean the asthetics of the REVmote have changed for durrability/ergonomical purposes...most likely just on the underside though)
-that devkit REVmote with the face blacked out...probably fake, but why is the face blacked out? a small player specific data screen? a built-in mic? something else?
-what's up with the ventilation on the bottom of the console (maybe the system runs hot and they put vents there to prevent it melting the stand?) & nearer towards the front on the underside there's like a connection plate of some kind...what's that all about?
DrGAKMAN said:
But it isn't. Your eyepiece is going to be displaying something, so it needs to be told what to display or fed what it's displaying. Anything involving streaming video is problematic. And if the headset is going to be generating it's own visuals, it would make the headset very expensive unless what it's displaying is *very* simple.
At best you could use a semi-transparent eyepiece to overlay simple text based information. That could be shown on the TV screen anyway in the form of an HUD, and it wouldn't add to the '3D-ness' of a game at all.
Nash said:
But man, imagine the Dragonball Z games you could make with it!
"POWER LEVEL IS 2 BILLION! That's unbelievable! Nothing else in the universe has ever shown such power before! There's absolutely no way we can defeat such an incredible energy! You cannot even fathom just how incredibly strong this power level indicates this monster is!"
*18 episodes pass with Goku and Majin Boo sitting over a canyon looking at each other menacingly.*
PkunkFury
Member
Amir0x said:
really, have you used them? I have... I also use the 800$ high end shutter glasses on a daily basis (http://www.stereographics.com/products/crystaleyes/body_crystaleyes.html). They are perfect, and the consumer level equivalent are not far off. You give away that you don't know what you are talking about when you say the 800 dollar shutter glasses have poor resolution. The resolution has nothing to do with the glasses, the glasses are just LCD screens that alternately black out your vision. The resolution is as good as the display you use...
Nintendo is using a consumer level form of optical tracking. "Good" optical tracking costs thousands of dollars, but they are selling us a 50$ solution that works comparably. It is not impossible that they would do the same for 3D viewing. I still don't think they will, but because of the other reasons I mentioned.
Shuttered glasses would be the best solution, but I think there'd be problems with the different displays we have around now. If everything was CRT it would be more realistic, but the refresh rate and ghosting on LCD panels and things might cause problems.
Also, the press would be full of stories of Japanese toddlers who happened to walk in on their parents playing, look at the TV and have a violent epileptic fit
Also, the press would be full of stories of Japanese toddlers who happened to walk in on their parents playing, look at the TV and have a violent epileptic fit
this 3d stuff is bit hmm.. ridiculous? what did Iwata or Miyamoto said that gave way to such speculation? I really doubt the "last" secret of the Revolution is stereoscopic 3d or some fancy shit like that. it's probably a mic or something more conventional.
PkunkFury
Member
Nash said:Shuttered glasses would be the best solution, but I think there'd be problems with the different displays we have around now. If everything was CRT it would be more realistic, but the refresh rate and ghosting on LCD panels and things might cause problems.
Also, the press would be full of stories of Japanese toddlers who happened to walk in on their parents playing, look at the TV and have a violent epileptic fit
yeah this is why I see 3D as a problem, and if they used it it would have to be completely optional in the games
PkunkFury said:
Like I said, there's black/white (tinted/clear) 3D glasses that are alot like the olden blue/red except they trick one eye into looking far away and the other eye into looking up close. It's not like highly advanced or anything, the clear side was basically just that...clear. Now, take away that clear side, make the tinted side a fold out eyepeice and put it on a mic/earpeice and BAM, 3D. Hold out your hands in front of your face with one further from your left eye and the other closer to your right eye...now this isn't highly advanced or WOWee or anything, but it tricks your eyes does it not? The far away veiw would be the normal naked eye veiw and the up close tinted eyepeice would give you a 3D effect. The image on the screen wouldn't be "blurry" to the naked eye, but the eyepeice would trick that eye into thinking something is closer and thanks to some special visual tricks on screen (that's where the Hollywood GPU comes in) it would give as good if not better 3D effects than blue/red cardboard glasses without the hassles of wearing goofy glasses or shudder glasses or some kind of VR helmet.
Nash said:
Again, where am I saying that the eyepeice is a screen or whatever...it's just a tinted see-thru eyepeice that when looked thru give your eye the impression that images on the screen look closer than they actually are!
Nightbringer said:
Who are you again?
Not trying to pick a fight, I mean, I even agree with you. In the past Nintendo would've done everything all propriety, but since Iwata's been at the helm they're adopting industry standerd things like WiFi, BT, USB, SD, network gaming, DVD, etc, etc. It's actually a lil' surprizing. I still think Nintendo is a gaming company first, but with them introducing TV, internet to the NDS themselves as well as delving into movies in the future I think it's totally not out of the question that Nintendo is becoming more multi-media than just games.
Not suggesting that Nintendo is doing a 180 and becoming Sony/MS-like media hubs, but certainly using more non-gaming features like they've been doing is a vehicle for expanding their hardware (and thus software) efforts. I mean, if Revolution ends up having a nice LCD then it's basically a kick-ass portable DVD player as well as a gaming system. If Revolution will use Opera web browsing software together with the REVmote then I think it'll make more strides than WebTV did in that market while still remaining a gaming focussed company.
DrGAKMAN said:
That would be called magic
The only thing I can think you are referring to is polarised 3D, which has what appear to be clear glasses. But they work using special projectors which emit 2 images combined using polarised light. It won't work on a conventional TV.
All you are describing is depth-of-field, where objects further away or closer than the focus appear blurred. Games already do this. It doesn't trick the eye into thinking something is 3D, only 2 separate viewpoints (1 for each eye) can do that.
imastalker co.
Banned
let's not forget about that Nintendo Valve thread. didn't seem like a completely hopeless discussion.
Nash said:That would be called magic
The only thing I can think you are referring to is polarised 3D, which has what appear to be clear glasses. But they work using special projectors which emit 2 images combined using polarised light. It won't work on a conventional TV.
These black/white glasses I used worked on a CRT with a DVD movie. I think a bit of reverse engineering could go a long way in finding a loophole in what I'm suggesting. I point to the Miyamoto quote again where he said the interface could easily be copied...but *not* the GPU. These glasses I speak of, the movie looked normal without the glasses on, but with the on the tinted side seemed to make certain images jump out in much the same way the blue/red glasses do only without the color distortion or blurriness.
DrGAKMAN said:
I'll have to take your word for it, but I've never heard of any such thing :-S
To trick the brain into seeing 3D, you *have* to offer 2 viewpoints. That's how depth-perception works. For things to 'jump out' at you, one eye has to be seeing something slightly different from the other eye.
There is no way the movie could look normal without the glasses on, because that picture you are looking at has to contain 2 viewpoints. The various ways you could do it are:
red/blue glasses - red and blue images are overlaid, each eye only see the corresponding colour
polarised glasses - 2 images are projected using polarised light, one eye sees the vertical the other the horizontal
shuttered glasses - images are shown alternately very fast, the vision of one eye being blocked when the other image is shown
independent screens - two screens, one for each eye, each showing it's own viewpoint
split-screen - like the PSP's Metal Gear Acid 2 visor
What you are describing does seem like magic, although I'd obviously be interested if you could find some details. If it was a DVD, it's obviously fairly recent.
PkunkFury
Member
DrGAKMAN said:
some mirachrome glasses use standard color shift to detect 3D, but the lenses are coated so they dont't look red/blue, making the user look less rediculous. If you were viewing a CRT, I'd assume you were using a similar solution to this. Otherwise, I think Nash is right, I don't know how stereo could be done with a near far projection, especially when one uncovered eye doesn't notice ghosting from the image behind the filter
Edit: I stand corrected, you are talking about Pulfrich glasses, which do work similar to what you described: http://dogfeathers.com/java/pulfrich.html
choplifter
Banned
very much agreed. the DS web browser alone proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
i'm glad to see this happening. I support it. I just bought my first DS yesterday. this is the first time I've ever bought a Nintendo handheld, even though they've been in the handheld industry since 1989 with the GameBoy (okay yeah it goes back further to the Game & Watch but my point remains). very much looking forward to getting that web browser, dispite any limitations. i hope the Revolution gets a browser too. i will also get the dongle or whatever it is that will allow Rev to play DVD movies.
Drinky Crow
Banned
you silly ninthings 
There is a way to achieve a 3D-effect using tinted glasses.
One of the glasses has to have a stronger tint, the eye that is behind the darker glass gets the image with a slight delay.
The problem is that this can only produce the illusion of depth on horizontally scrolling images.
One of the glasses has to have a stronger tint, the eye that is behind the darker glass gets the image with a slight delay.
The problem is that this can only produce the illusion of depth on horizontally scrolling images.
PkunkFury
Member
KonVex said:
yeah, that is the Pulfrich effect. Because it would only work with scrolling images it wouldn't be any good for real time applications. You wouldn't be able to see a scene in 3D. That is why this is usually used for TV broadcasts that have gimmicky 3D. but not ever used for actuall stereo systems
you can try it with sunglasses here: http://dogfeathers.com/java/pulfrich.html
I'd never heard of this technique either, so it isn't magic. Apologies DrGakman
It's a trick that works with horizontal motion only though, so it's not much use for a console. I think this may be the dvd:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00015YWA8/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Here's another one, (with a cross-eyed 3D pic on the page as well):
http://www.siu.edu/~pulfrich/Pulfrich_Pages/externs/DVD_Carlson.htm
It's a trick that works with horizontal motion only though, so it's not much use for a console. I think this may be the dvd:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00015YWA8/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Here's another one, (with a cross-eyed 3D pic on the page as well
):http://www.siu.edu/~pulfrich/Pulfrich_Pages/externs/DVD_Carlson.htm
Walter Matthau
Member
I love how the Metroid Prime 3 story keeps changing. The true story is they made it 3 minutes before the show while drunk and stoned. One of the members on the team was a dolphin, also drunk.
PhoenixDark
Banned
parathod said:
I like the one where Chuck Norris and Miyamoto were locked in a bathroom together at E3, and when they escaped they brought out the MP3 video. Classic.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Drinky Crow said:you silly ninthings
Please make them stop.
Please.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Only page three and this thread is already starting to get stupid.... :lol
Nash said:
I like to think that that is what Nintendo is striving for. Decades ago VR glasses failed miserably due to low resolutions and high prices of panels but now that they are cheap and a much higher quality, perhaps the big "N" is working on true stereoscopic LCD glasses. It would be pretty sweet to have true 3d along with a virtual representation of whatever object you are swinging around with the controller. One can dream anyway.
I'm sorry but what does a 3D display add to gameplay?
Anybody here knows!?? I don't even WANT to play games on some gimmicky 3D illusion. TV is fine, thanks.
The first thought I'll have if Nintendo reveals something like this will be "I hope there's an option to turn it off and play normally on a TV".
Honestly this is getting annoying.
OH HE SEEMS QUITE SURE.
Who the hell is he? Some dude with a blog. If Nintendo has a new secret some no name loser would NOT have ANY dea of it. JUST LIKE NOBODY - NOT EVEN THE SO-CALLED INSIDERS - CAME EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT THE REVMOTE IS.
Anybody here knows!?? I don't even WANT to play games on some gimmicky 3D illusion. TV is fine, thanks.
The first thought I'll have if Nintendo reveals something like this will be "I hope there's an option to turn it off and play normally on a TV".
Shiggy said:
Honestly this is getting annoying.
OH HE SEEMS QUITE SURE.
Who the hell is he? Some dude with a blog. If Nintendo has a new secret some no name loser would NOT have ANY dea of it. JUST LIKE NOBODY - NOT EVEN THE SO-CALLED INSIDERS - CAME EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT THE REVMOTE IS.
Drinky Woman said:you silly ninthings
As soon as you get to GAF do you instantly click "veiw all posts by DrGAKMAN" to make it easier to find N-Tard hideouts?
CharlieDigital said:
With one-liners like this, the thread can ONLY get better.
parathod said:
"Fetch the blue triangle to make MP3 demo in 3D...NO you damned PORPOISE, the blue one!"
PkunkFury said:
BLAM...I knew it existed, I just couldn't find an example of it. This is what I was describing. As that site explains it's basically one eye is the naked eye (meaning, there's nothing needed for this eye) and the other eye is tinted...so an eyepeice solution would work. Another cool thing about this type of 3D is that the movie was veiwable (without blurriness) with or without the glasses!
Nash said:
You never heard of it 'cos I guess it isn't practical for movies/games. I thought it might work, but as the site is describing it, I guess it's just sort of a simplistic 3D trick that only works under certain circumstances/conditions. I thought it was neat when I tried it, but maybe it's not good enough for games in this form?
Chrono said:
Again, it would be a secondary add-on feature IMO...optional most likely. In no way am I plugging for it to be "teh secret" or whatever...
XMonkey said:
Hey, I'm not suggesting as much, it's just people like to cling to the idea of 3D 'cos I guess it intrigues them. I imagine that if 3D is in the cards it is NOT the additional secret feature people keep hinting at nor would it be a main attraction of the system. Again, I think of it as something simple/basic that adds to *some* games just as the Super FX chip & Rumble Pak did in the past
I think we should really move away from 3D discussion 'cos there's plenty of other things to speculate on...like I said earlier in the thread...
Me said:
Well, since this is a Revo speculation thread, I might as well throw this into the group. A Zelda fansite speculated a while ago, after all the hoopla around TP on the Rev, that Nintendo might be retrofitting control schemes for their older games to make it work with the Revolution controller. I'm pretty sure I've heard a flat out denial from Reggie, and I didn't really belief it before that either. But hey, this entire thread is filled with things that are never going to happen on the Rev, so it fits.
My personal pet theory is still gyroscopic flywheels. From what I remember, the way that rumble works in e.g. the GCN controller is with an off-balance flywheel. An on balance flywheel would neither rumble, or be able to tug your hand to a certain direction, like some rumours suggest. Instead it would create a type of motion resistance. And with three of them spinning in 3 different axes at seperate speeds you could direct said resistance. The flywheels wouldn't have to be massive, relatively subtle motion resistance would still give a tremendous amount of tactile feedback.
To me it seems the most likely of the theories that are floating around. And the most feasible, because it is relatively close to current rumble tech. Whose functionality is confirmed to be in the Rev magic wand.
My personal pet theory is still gyroscopic flywheels. From what I remember, the way that rumble works in e.g. the GCN controller is with an off-balance flywheel. An on balance flywheel would neither rumble, or be able to tug your hand to a certain direction, like some rumours suggest. Instead it would create a type of motion resistance. And with three of them spinning in 3 different axes at seperate speeds you could direct said resistance. The flywheels wouldn't have to be massive, relatively subtle motion resistance would still give a tremendous amount of tactile feedback.
To me it seems the most likely of the theories that are floating around. And the most feasible, because it is relatively close to current rumble tech. Whose functionality is confirmed to be in the Rev magic wand.
;_;
I just watched the E3 2005 Zelda round table again. And then all the trailers. I want this game. :'(
Watching those vids reminded me of how beautiful this game looks in motions. The screen shots don't do it justice.
I also remember miyamoto saying something like he wants players be able to touch/feel things in the next mario. I could see how that could work with the revmote - you can just point at anything and 'touch' it. No idea how this works in actual gameplay and for a platformer though.
GDC - one month!
E3 - two months!
HOORAY!!!!
I just watched the E3 2005 Zelda round table again. And then all the trailers. I want this game. :'(
Watching those vids reminded me of how beautiful this game looks in motions. The screen shots don't do it justice.
Timen said:
I also remember miyamoto saying something like he wants players be able to touch/feel things in the next mario. I could see how that could work with the revmote - you can just point at anything and 'touch' it. No idea how this works in actual gameplay and for a platformer though.
GDC - one month!
E3 - two months!
HOORAY!!!!
My biggest wish is for it to have feedback which pulls you around using gyros or whatever. That would be insane.
But it'd have to be suitable for use by 3 yr olds and such with Nintendo's philosophy. But the whole touching is good, feeling is better thing has been around since day one and we certainly havent been told about it yet.
But it'd have to be suitable for use by 3 yr olds and such with Nintendo's philosophy. But the whole touching is good, feeling is better thing has been around since day one and we certainly havent been told about it yet.
Shiggy said:
I wouldn't call him someone with insider knowledge either, although he isn't trying to be. Fact is he is just a nintendo fanboy like the rest of us.
When Broken Saints first started he got shitloads of free publicity for it by linking it to the Nintendo gaming community, saying it was in talks to become a Nintendo exclusive game etc. It was featured on IGN regularly and went mad on the forums. No game.
But its possible he made a few contacts from it. Bet he's dead close with Matt lol.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Well, they could on the game's end, it would just take even more setup. If the game knew the size of the TV, the position of the viewer, and what sort of depth it was trying to fake for an object, it could tell its virtual 3D location relative to the users' wand. However, even good 3D effects on TV tend to not exactly make it look as if there's actually an object more than a short distance from the screen, so it wouldn't really make a difference compared to just acting as if the object is still flat.kaizoku said:
pcostabel
Gold Member
Frank the Great
Banned
kaizoku said:
"Touching is good, feeling is better" was never said by Nintendo. It was said by one of those Aries-wannabes back before the last E3, and for some reason all the nintards kind of accepted it as fact over time.
pcostabel said:
$80 controllers FTL?
sonikokaruto
Banned
Francois the Great said:
yeah, they come bundled in a 150$ package