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Ridley Scott confirms Prometheus 2 is his next film

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Oh, wasn't saying that. Just that the discussion around the film and what happened with it has been more interesting than the film itself. With far more thought put into it than was happening with the film itself, as people try to make sense of what is just a beautiful mess. Strip away the production values and you just have a terrible film.

Why it's such a mess is pretty clear, you had a so-so (but coherent) Alien prequel which was already on shaky ground with the Ancient Aliens angle meeting a director who was far more interested in that than its place in the Alien Universe. Expanding those shaky foundations even further just meant it collapsed under its own weight despite Lindelof being brought in to try and glue it together with magic black goo and hint at something bigger so you don't ask why the roof is falling in.

Prometheus had no confidence in the story it was telling because it didn't know what story it was trying to tell anymore. With no coherance to the story there's no coherance in the characters' actions, with the story taking a back-seat it doesn't matter what happens in it, and so on. It just fell apart.

People talking about the mural's significance to the story? It was just a homage to Giger, nothing more. People going to great lengths trying to tie it into the Prometheus myth? A Fox executive suggested it was called that just because it sounded cool and marketable. What does the Deacon mean? No one cared because it didn't originally even look like a xenomorph.

The only message to take from Prometheus is that it was a vanity project to get to this Paradise where Ridley could finally explore the things he wanted to. It just ran over Alien to get there.

The original script was a clean and neat prequel to Alien. Facehuggers, eggs, LV-426. The wrecked ship would be the Derelict from the first movie. Lindeloff changed all of it when he came on board. Facehuggers and chest bursters became giant vagina dick snake things, eggs became jars of the black goo, different planet that just happened to end in a perfect set up for Alien...and so on. A lot of the questions that come up are straight from him changing things just to change shit and not worrying about how it made sense.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
The original script was a clean and neat prequel to Alien. Facehuggers, eggs, LV-426. The wrecked ship would be the Derelict from the first movie. Lindeloff changed all of it when he came on board. Facehuggers and chest bursters became giant vagina dick snake things, eggs became jars of the black goo, different planet that just happened to end in a perfect set up for Alien...and so on. A lot of the questions that come up are straight from him changing things just to change shit and not worrying about how it made sense.

All of which stems from the direction Ridley wanted to go in, which was running with the weakest element of the original script and taking it to a painfully literal conclusion. Lindelof did exactly what he was asked to do.

Prometheus was never our journey to Alien, it was Ridley's journey to Paradise. And the more questions that are raised then the more profound this journey and Shaw's must be!
 
All of which stems from the direction Ridley wanted to go in, which was running with the weakest element of the original script and taking it to a painfully literal conclusion. Lindelof did exactly what he was asked to do.

Prometheus was never our journey to Alien, it was Ridley's journey to Paradise. And the more questions that are raised then the more profound this journey and Shaw's must be!

I think it would have been a better movie to either be the straight up by the numbers prequel, or go in the direction of it has nothing to do with Alien, instead of the weird hybrid of both it ended up being.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I think it would have been a better movie to either be the straight up by the numbers prequel, or go in the direction of it has nothing to do with Alien, instead of the weird hybrid of both it ended up being.

Yep, it was ill-conceived from the beginning.
 
I don't think it is a coincidence that the best scenes were basically rehashes of scenes from Alien, though. Especially the C-Section scene, which is classic Ridley.

The ending to Alien 3? I don't understand why She killed herself in order to stop the alien from being taken and studied. Yeah, she did it for that reason, because the nightmare would never end, but shit. Just let them have it and leave and don't look back.
 
The ending to Alien 3? I don't understand why She killed herself in order to stop the alien from being taken and studied. Yeah, she did it for that reason, because the nightmare would never end, but shit. Just let them have it and leave and don't look back.

I'm lost. What does the ending to Alien 3 have to do with the c-section scene from Prometheus?
 

Erigu

Member
The ending to Alien 3? I don't understand why She killed herself in order to stop the alien from being taken and studied. Yeah, she did it for that reason, because the nightmare would never end, but shit. Just let them have it and leave and don't look back.
Speaking of... The climax of Alien 3 makes it look like Ripley's alien is particularly valuable/important, but that only makes sense if the alien ship and its cargo were nuked along with the colony back in Aliens, and I don't remember that being actually established...
 
Speaking of... The climax of Alien 3 makes it look like Ripley's alien is particularly valuable/important, but that only makes sense if the alien ship and its cargo were nuked along with the colony back in Aliens, and I don't remember that being actually established...

Cloud of vapour the size of Nebraska would have done it.
 

W.S.

Member
The original script was a clean and neat prequel to Alien. Facehuggers, eggs, LV-426. The wrecked ship would be the Derelict from the first movie. Lindeloff changed all of it when he came on board. Facehuggers and chest bursters became giant vagina dick snake things, eggs became jars of the black goo, different planet that just happened to end in a perfect set up for Alien...and so on. A lot of the questions that come up are straight from him changing things just to change shit and not worrying about how it made sense.

The Spaihts script starts out pretty well but by the end it turns into a by the numbers slasher. It probably would have gotten about as much criticism as the Thing prequel which had the same function of setting up the Carpenter '82 version without having the successful elements (namely character work and great effects) that made the Carpenter Thing so good in the first place.

I don't have any problems with acknowledging that Prometheus stumbled pretty hard in the character department outside of David and the logic for some of the ideas it put forth were not very well explained but it was still more interesting than a direct prequel that just mechanically put pieces into place.

The sequel has quite the uphill battle though, not only will it have to show the engineer homeworld and all of it's potential horrors but it also has to address many of the questions and logistics the first Prometheus put forth; namely what were the events of 2000 years ago that led to the ships/installations we saw in LV-426 and LV-223?
 
The original script was a clean and neat prequel to Alien. Facehuggers, eggs, LV-426. The wrecked ship would be the Derelict from the first movie. Lindeloff changed all of it when he came on board. Facehuggers and chest bursters became giant vagina dick snake things, eggs became jars of the black goo, different planet that just happened to end in a perfect set up for Alien...and so on. A lot of the questions that come up are straight from him changing things just to change shit and not worrying about how it made sense.

.....and Prometheus would have ended with Kane discovering the egg on LV-426 but he complained saying it was clichéd and too obvious of an ending.

Honestly, that's all I wanted out of Prometheus. Just a connection to Alien... :(
 
oops. You said Alien.

Nevertheless, the ending to Alien 3 was fucking stupid.

Lol. I feel like it wouldn't be quite as stupid if the effect didn't look so terrible. That shit looked like a local weatherman in front of his green screen. Just awful. And the composited xeno running around looked even worse. How you mess up the two most important things of your movie is anyone's guess.
 
Lol. I feel like it wouldn't be quite as stupid if the effect didn't look so terrible. That shit looked like a local weatherman in front of his green screen. Just awful. And the composited xeno running around looked even worse. How you mess up the two most important things of your movie is anyone's guess.

Even for a 1993 movie, that blue screen looked absolutely terrible. I remember cringing at it back then too, though it was still less cringy because it wasn't uncommon to see a terrible blue screen effects in the '90's. But still, for a large scale 20th century Fox production, it was weak. It didn't help matters that James Cameron did it better in T2 two years earlier.
 
That C-section scene was fucking awful. Somehow, the machine that is so specific that women can't even be operated on is able to perform a C-section when you say the name of a completely different surgery that takes place in a vaguely similar region of the body, and she's running away from aliens and crashing ships within 15-20 diegetic minutes. It's not even visceral, just fucking dumb.
 

nomis

Member
As a viewer, that really was the first sign of big trouble.

A "scientist" in the movie used the non-term "Darwinism" as though it was an ideology. Massive red flag right there.

"It's what I choose to believe" ...barf.

Why couldn't the main character have been a naturalist who was nevertheless intrigued by what their archaeological discoveries appeared to be pointing to? Nah they had to be a God(alien) true believer. Searching for the "origin of life" in this movie was just moving the goalposts further out into space, not actually proposing any concept for the origin of biological life. "Engineers dun did it". Okay well if Prometheus 2 tells me how the Engineers came to be and it isn't just "These other aliens did it" then I'll be much more interested.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
So there's a chance the sequel will be a film with actual thought behind it?

Well it can't have any less, but if you pose big questions you better have something behind it propping it up. Feeling your answers are "too on the nose" to give suggests you shouldn't have been the one asking these questions in the first place.

Aesthetically it will no doubt be great, but Prometheus 2 has everything to prove and none of this probably needed trashing the mystery of the Space Jockey, and one of the strengths of Alien, to begin with.

I don't think the original script would have been worth it either, the extra baggage Prometheus was carrying just dragged it down even more.
 
Alien is one of the more overrated films in history. The visual design was very good and the chest bursting scene is iconic but apart from that it is relatively flat and lacking content that raises it above an old fashioned monster b movie. Ooh you can't trust corporations to look after their employees the edge so sharp.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Alien is one of the more overrated films in history. The visual design was very good and the chest bursting scene is iconic but apart from that it is relatively flat and lacking content that raises it above an old fashioned monster b movie. Ooh you can't trust corporations to look after their employees the edge so sharp.

And Jaws was nothing more than putting money before beach safety, pfffft.
 

lawnchair

Banned
so did the Engineer (JESUS) somehow shrink himself and put on a fake beard disguise to look like jesus? or was jesus actually a 9 foot tall pale bald alien and all artists interpretations have just been way off the mark? will we get to see space jesus crucified in prometheus 2? I CANT WAIT!
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
so did the Engineer (JESUS) somehow shrink himself and put on a fake beard disguise to look like jesus? or was jesus actually an 9 foot tall pale bald alien and all artists interpretations have just been way off the mark? will we get to see space jesus crucified in prometheus 2? I CANT WAIT!
Don't you get it?
The Engineers don't look like marble statues from ancient Greece, Rome or the Renaissance by coincidence ... Rather those statues look like Engineers :p
 

D.Lo

Member
Alien is one of the more overrated films in history. The visual design was very good and the chest bursting scene is iconic but apart from that it is relatively flat and lacking content that raises it above an old fashioned monster b movie. Ooh you can't trust corporations to look after their employees the edge so sharp.
WTF? The movie has astounding design, an incredible score, and is dense with a 'sexual violence' subtext, which makes the horror hit even more hard. It's also on just a surface level a groundbeaking genre-bender, as a working class sci-fi slasher.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
In terms of message Jaws was actively a horrible movie. It caused people to fear sharks for no reason to the point where the person who wrote it felt obliged to take up the cause of Shark conservation.

I'd call that a very effective horror film that successfully played on people's innate fears, as does Alien.
 
Alien is one of the more overrated films in history. The visual design was very good and the chest bursting scene is iconic but apart from that it is relatively flat and lacking content that raises it above an old fashioned monster b movie. Ooh you can't trust corporations to look after their employees the edge so sharp.

It's so fondly looked at precisely because it is, at heart, a simple B movie monster/slasher, but done with such skill, design, and atmosphere. It does have some subtext that you can find if you really want to, but it's mostly because it is a great monster/slash movie, much like Carpenter's The Thing.
 

coleco

Member
First alien was quite innovative. Unexpected female lead, the alien with multiple forms, the robot going mad, etc.
 
It's so fondly looked at precisely because it is, at heart, a simple B movie monster/slasher, but done with such skill, design, and atmosphere. It does have some subtext that you can find if you really want to, but it's mostly because it is a great monster/slash movie, much like Carpenter's The Thing.

OK it's a simple monster/slasher movie enjoy it but there is no reason to go nuts about the universe of the movie or trashing other movies for not being Alien.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
But the messages in them were a. trite and b. awful. Isn't the "Christian" messaging of Prometheus your main complaint?

No, my main complaint as stated about Prometheus is it had no message at all because it had no confidence in anything it was doing.

Alien and Jaws knew exactly what they were doing and delivered it. That is also why they have endured as well as they have done.

They evoked fear, Prometheus evokes confusion and frustration. Because unlike the other 2, it's shit.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
No, my main complaint as stated about Prometheus is it had no message at all because it had no confidence in anything it was doing.

Alien and Jaws knew exactly what they were doing and delivered it. That is also why they have endured as well as they have done.

They evoked fear, Prometheus evokes confusion and frustration. Because unlike the other 2, it's shit.
I honestly wonder what a prequel to Alien should have set out to evoke to begin with..
I think everyone was expecting something deeper than just recreating the feelings of the original film.
 

Kadayi

Banned
I honestly don't think Prometheus can be redeemed at this point. Such a complete mess of a story.

At this juncture I'd almost rather they consider rebooting the Alien Franchise versus trying to make sequels/prequels if they absolutely have to continue to shit on the originals legacy.

Also can't say I'm overawed by Neil Blomkamp down to make an Aliens Sequel. Beyond District 9 I haven't been overly impressed with his work (and even that was a bit of a shaggy dog story) the only thing he has going for him is he's good with tech.
 

jett

D-Member
It can't.

Even if it could, this sequel wouldn't do it. It'd just make Prometheus the shitty movie that came out before the good one did.

I'm just hoping he didn't botch the Martian.

From the trailers The Martian looks like a fairly straight-forward and true-to-the-book adaptation. I don't think there's much to botch there anyway, it's a really simple story. I think that at worst the movie will turn out to be forgettable.
 
OK it's a simple monster/slasher movie enjoy it but there is no reason to go nuts about the universe of the movie or trashing other movies for not being Alien.

So he can't criticize Prometheus because Alien is a good movie? The two films are connected, unfortunately, so it makes sense to refer to one when speaking of the other. And your complaints of Alien are so utterly reductive (ie sure Citizen Kane has good cinematography but it's just about loss of innocence, so trite) to the point where I'm not sure why you are even throwing out such vague and unsubstantial criticism when it adds nothing to the conversation.
 
So he can't criticize Prometheus because Alien is a good movie? The two films are connected, unfortunately, so it makes sense to refer to one when speaking of the other. And your complaints of Alien are so utterly reductive (ie sure Citizen Kane has good cinematography but it's just about loss of innocence, so trite) to the point where I'm not sure why you are even throwing out such vague and unsubstantial criticism when it adds nothing to the conversation.

I said that Alien is one of the more overrated movies out there. Because despite it being an old fashioned monster movie that was made using superior art and techniques it doesn't really have that much significance above that or enough depth to hold up to scrutiny. If you accept that it's just a simple monster/slasher and that any message or plot is mostly irrelevant as long as it isn't confusing, and that's what you want, then I don't have a problem.
 

Horse Detective

Why the long case?
tumblr_np134xYirH1qfzcnbo1_400.gif
 
I agree. If you expect Alien or Aliens it's a disappointment

It's a disappointment completely divorced from those films, though. Setting it next to those two makes that disappointment stronger, sure, but even without those films on the shelf alongside it, it's still a disappointing film.
 
I said that Alien is one of the more overrated movies out there. Because despite it being an old fashioned monster movie that was made using superior art and techniques it doesn't really have that much significance above that or enough depth to hold up to scrutiny. If you accept that it's just a simple monster/slasher and that any message or plot is mostly irrelevant as long as it isn't confusing, and that's what you want, then I don't have a problem.

I think everyone accepts that it's a simple monster movie. That doesn't mean it's overrated. In fact simplicity can be a very admirable trait in a film that is so exactingly crafted as Alien (or JAWS for that matter). It's not just the visuals that the film is celebrated, but the Freudian psycho-sexual nightmare the alien induces, the grounded performances, the taught screenplay, the perfect pacing with a measured build up to the explosive final act, the sense of mystery and lack of exposition, coherent characters.

Just because it doesn't engage in as complex themes as something like, say Apocalypse Now, does not mean it isn't as great a film as any of the other classics. Perfect execution in film no matter the subject is a rare and incredible thing, and the film's legacy and impact speaks for itself. It doesn't need monologues or complex characters in order to engage it's viewers and touch upon deep seated fears that are all the more believable due to the grounded setting of the movie.

And it doesn't have the depth to hold up under scrutiny? What exactly falls apart under scrutiny? I would wager that nothing of any import falls apart because the movie is so tightly constructed and well thought out from themes to character arcs. Compare that to Prometheus in which even a cursory evaluation of it and the film falls short in myriad ways.

Ultimately though, to suggest that a movie is overrated because it's "only" a monster movie is a rather shortsighted evaluation of the medium.
 
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