Seriously. Some people just really, really work hard to be offended.
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Robin Thicke's Twitter Q&A #AskThicke backfires completely
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Banned
People don't talk dirty only in bed. Also not all mainstream songs have to adhere to conservative values about sex. For the kids is an annoying overused argument.
Hypemaster
Member
That's what I'm lead to believe when they call it rapey lyrics.
My mom loves this song.
Anyways, the whole problem with this "rape culture" movement is its extremely vague, broad and seemingly all encompassing message. Your post here pretty much sums up the huge problem with it ever being taken seriously by the general population and actually working against it. If you don't mean its "rapey" then heres a thought, don't try to claim its rapey (im talking in general, not singling you out). As you see in this thread people are going to write that off as "this is rapey...really? thats ridiculous" and when you try to clarify people have already written off what you have to say.
This has been going on in the gaming side for awhile now. Is "rape culture" a valid concern? Absolutely. In the way its casually used in multiplayer matches by young people, on college campuses, etc. When movements are made using the term against things like Tomb Raider (did you hear her moaning when falling through trees?) or Dracula in Castlevania being...Dracula then the movement loses credibility.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
So by allowing a song like Blurred Lines to exist it taints the collective conscious of the western world and increases the number of rapes? Is that why grown adults must be forbidden from talking or listening to naughty words?
The "Sexist" argument also falls flat for me.
Robin Thicke's chorus is basically.. "You don't need to be a domesticated 'wife', be liberated from the role society says you should play, you don't need 'that man'."
The entire song is basically "It's OK for a woman to want sex." He hates the blurred lines surrounding what is OK in society in regards to sexual expression and monogamy.. the idea that he's literally saying he hates the blurred lines of consent is ridiculous.
It's also mixed in with lots of male sexual confidence of course.
About the only thing I can conclude is "sexist" is that you think the song is about how women only exist to have sex.. but the song doesn't really say that.. and the video's nudity doesn't either. It's a celebration of male and female sexuality, not a statement that women are less than men, only serve one purpose, etc.
Lyrically it's a huge mix.. some of the statements actually coincide with feminist ideals ironically.
Robin Thicke's chorus is basically.. "You don't need to be a domesticated 'wife', be liberated from the role society says you should play, you don't need 'that man'."
The entire song is basically "It's OK for a woman to want sex." He hates the blurred lines surrounding what is OK in society in regards to sexual expression and monogamy.. the idea that he's literally saying he hates the blurred lines of consent is ridiculous.
It's also mixed in with lots of male sexual confidence of course.
About the only thing I can conclude is "sexist" is that you think the song is about how women only exist to have sex.. but the song doesn't really say that.. and the video's nudity doesn't either. It's a celebration of male and female sexuality, not a statement that women are less than men, only serve one purpose, etc.
Lyrically it's a huge mix.. some of the statements actually coincide with feminist ideals ironically.
user8503492
Banned
Nobody's ever met a female at a bar/club and after talking for a little bit basically got to the point of a round about way of saying "So, are we fucking or what?"..or hell even just said that exact phrase?
In my younger more confident dick slinging days I would say filthy shit lol. They arent up for it, on to next girl.
In my younger more confident dick slinging days I would say filthy shit lol. They arent up for it, on to next girl.
Apparently you can't talk about sex without being sexist.
Throwing "rapey" around when something has absolutely nothing to do with rape does not do anything good for your position.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Why dismiss valid feelings like this?
Danny Brown and Lil Wayne seem to have no problems with talking about sex constantly without necessarily being sexist, but then some of their songs actually respect the woman's choices while at the same time showcasing their bravado and straightforward attitude.
Lambda Pie
Banned
Vermillion
Banned
Well, if you guys can bear with me for a second, I know where the disconnect is.
The people against the song believe that it's presumptuous. Women have been assaulted before after claims of "we both want this," or "I know you want to have sex with me."
People who aren't against the song are thinking of it in a situation where Thicke and co. is correct - i.e. the proper context. There's no way where you can actually know this, but something I read the other day sort of clicked with this and I realize that this is the same grey area that GAF will never get over.
What I read was a woman complaining about guys asking if they can kiss her, because she wants spontaneity and the asking puts her off. Obviously, in any sort of sexual situation, you do want consent from both parties. At the same time (and previous female posters here have noted this), you may also want people who just read the situation properly. As an example, we all know that spousal rape is a real thing. But in the proper context, with two people who are aware of each other, they may not necessarily ask each other and confirm (as is the advice for random hookups).
Or even with an SO. But people may read a situation completely wrong and end up doing something regrettable. When it comes to a situation where you're dealing with strangers, there are women who will want one sort of thing and others that may not. The only way to make sure that you don't fuck up in such a situation is either to make entirely safe moves (which may not be appealing to some women) or just learn proper social context. But the latter can't necessarily be taught or quantified, so the only way to figure it out is to interact with people.
So the situation that the song "Blurred Lines" describes is one that is presumptuous, but can work in certain situations. It's not a song about rape or sexual assault, but guys who do the same thing in real life (particularly socially inept guys or guys who are extremely narcissistic) can end up in sexual assault territory very quickly. The song title is characteristic of the situation - it is very much a blurred line, and there's nothing I can say here that will help anyone make heads or tails of it.
It's just what happens if you're going to flirt at a club.
EDIT: At the same time, the song does respect the woman's autonomy and the "I know you want it" doesn't imply any action. So keep that in mind too. He talks a bunch of shit, but first move is still hers.
The people against the song believe that it's presumptuous. Women have been assaulted before after claims of "we both want this," or "I know you want to have sex with me."
People who aren't against the song are thinking of it in a situation where Thicke and co. is correct - i.e. the proper context. There's no way where you can actually know this, but something I read the other day sort of clicked with this and I realize that this is the same grey area that GAF will never get over.
What I read was a woman complaining about guys asking if they can kiss her, because she wants spontaneity and the asking puts her off. Obviously, in any sort of sexual situation, you do want consent from both parties. At the same time (and previous female posters here have noted this), you may also want people who just read the situation properly. As an example, we all know that spousal rape is a real thing. But in the proper context, with two people who are aware of each other, they may not necessarily ask each other and confirm (as is the advice for random hookups).
Or even with an SO. But people may read a situation completely wrong and end up doing something regrettable. When it comes to a situation where you're dealing with strangers, there are women who will want one sort of thing and others that may not. The only way to make sure that you don't fuck up in such a situation is either to make entirely safe moves (which may not be appealing to some women) or just learn proper social context. But the latter can't necessarily be taught or quantified, so the only way to figure it out is to interact with people.
So the situation that the song "Blurred Lines" describes is one that is presumptuous, but can work in certain situations. It's not a song about rape or sexual assault, but guys who do the same thing in real life (particularly socially inept guys or guys who are extremely narcissistic) can end up in sexual assault territory very quickly. The song title is characteristic of the situation - it is very much a blurred line, and there's nothing I can say here that will help anyone make heads or tails of it.
It's just what happens if you're going to flirt at a club.
EDIT: At the same time, the song does respect the woman's autonomy and the "I know you want it" doesn't imply any action. So keep that in mind too. He talks a bunch of shit, but first move is still hers.
Arsenic Yellow
Member
I said its rapey because when I listened to the song, I found it triggering. I don't know what more I have to say about it. You say you're not singling me out, but you are. I said its rapey because it is triggering for some women that have experienced rape. Am I saying this is a song about rape? NO. I'm not being vague in what I'm saying. Someone can elicit certain responses from the audience without necessarily trying to. Does this song need to be off the radio? NO. Does it need censorship? NO, But if people think this song is problematic and triggering, then confront him about it and he makes a joke of it? Thats a problem.
Instead of saying I'm a problem, why dont you ask questions to understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not asking for censorship, I never did. This thread consists of mostly males, other forums that are predominately female or none cis males, you'll find the exact opposite response to this article.
I never said what people were doing on twitter was right, there will always be people who go on the extremes.
As I said before, for me, I found it rapey because a lot of the lyrics in the song is triggering. Maybe it doesn't help my position. But as a rape victim who knows other victims, I'll say the song is something we react to.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Very good post. You're spot on.
I reached that conclusion some time ago myself.
BobbyRobby
Member
'Blurred lines' was wildly popular with tons of females that I know. As others have said, it is clearly about convincing a girl into adultery.
Have any feminists come out and try to distance themselves from these people?
Seems like they would poison people against you while you are trying to wage battles about other things such as employers covering birth control.
Have any feminists come out and try to distance themselves from these people?
Seems like they would poison people against you while you are trying to wage battles about other things such as employers covering birth control.
One song is not the issue. Thicke in all his self-admitted sexist misogynistic glory, took the extra step of creating an objectifying video to accompany the chorus that rape victims hear over and over from their rapist.
What I will never understand is the outrage from people like in this thread when victims of often- daily sexual harassment (mostly women) decide to publicly call out pop culture that contributes to young boys growing up thinking that women are objects, and telling them that they can assume that a girl wants to be fucked from the slightest dancing move. Boys in high school and college have this attitude to a much greater extent that what is being reported, so can we show sympathy when victims say that the song contributes to the trend?
Dismiss valid feelings? First of all, the song is being completely misframed. He didn't walk up to some random girl in the bar, say how fat her ass is, get rejected, hit on her some more and threaten to do whatever he wants to her. She's flirting back, groping him and APPARENTLY is as into it as he is.
If someone feels that this sort of scenario is sexist, then I simply disagree wholeheartedly.
I don't hate Robin Thickes, but Robin Thickes are some of the worst people I've ever met. They are of lower than average intelligence and are uncontrolled sexual animals.
Again, I am not bigoted against Robin Thickes.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Yup. Rock With You from Michael Jackson one can imply the same BS, it's just a song.
Agreed. I wonder if it's "rape-y" or "creepy" when I've pulled girls' hair while fucking them from behind and telling them they're dirty little whores? Lol. Because girls love that stuff. These lyrics are stupid and somewhat pathetic, but "rape-y"? Not at all.
Yes, many women feel this is a sexist scenario based on their own experiences, so good luck telling them that their feelings are wrong, and that they "misframed" their reactions. Not accusing you of anything in the least, but many rape victims also hear that they just "misframed" the situation.
I don't think people are confused about the disconnect.
They are saying it's a ridiculous presumption that the song is in the context of a rapist saying things.
Is it dismissive of people's feelings? Sure.. but it's how much of us feel. It's also just.. objectively wrong as it's not a song about a rapist saying things. I feel VERY sorry for people who who jump to this conclusion because they've experienced some form of sexual assault, but outside of that it's IMO, not a healthy conclusion to jump too.
I'm no MRA type, but I don't think it's healthy to go around damning instances of male sexual confidence because rapists say things. Rapists also sometimes ask their victims to tell them they love them.. are we going to start shaming men away from saying that too?
https://www.google.com/search?q=tell+me+you+love+me+lyircs
I think a lot of pop (and other) music falls into the same shitty area of romanticising male sexual ego / senses of entitlement for female affection; Thicke himself makes a good target however because he's an obvious slimebag and the song was popular and the video newsworthy for a brief period. This is why people use phrases like "rape culture" (which I think is kinda accurate but a larger discussion than just one song) or "rapey" (which I think is less accurate but I understand its use) when discussing why they have a problem with it, even though it's not confined to this singular instance and likely won't go away for a long time. It should also be noted that arguments along the lines of "we'll never be able to flirt" have been used to support misogynist behavior for longer than we've had the word to describe behavior.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Somehow some men out there still find ways of aggressively flirting without coming off as total slime balls with no respect for the women they're putting moves on. No one here is being censored. We'll all be okay.
That doesn't change what I said. It's still about clarification and the lack of. I understand the context of triggers but there are many, many things that can cause triggers for different reasons and different people. To try and throw a blanket term of "rapey" onto something that requires specific context to represent that label is not going to help get a point across. There are other issues with the song that are clearly easier seen or discussed and even though calling it 'rapey' may garner a bigger reaction it still loses credibility when scrutinized. People have already walked away from the discussion and even worse may likely automatically write off anything someone has to say on a similar issue later on. I guess if I was to try and sum it up it would be you diminish the impact of a term if you try to continually use it on things and situations it doesn't really fit
If the bolded is your impression of what rape is, then that's why you're missing the point.
Rape isn't just CSI: SVU, dude ties a woman up, has his way, and leaves her in a ditch. Rape can be a lot more insidious.
One of the reasons rape can be so hard to prosecute is that the dude can say "it was consensual" and that's damn hard to disprove.
"We were making out hard: she was clearly into it."
"I knew she wanted me."
"She's just trying to protect her 'good girl' reputation: in reality, she's a sex fiend and she loved every second of it."
"Yeah, the sex as a little rough. I pulled her hair and whatnot, but she was into it!"
Yes, in certain contexts, all of these can be entirely reasonable. It's even entirely possible that the rapist believes it! Believes that she was into it, that she wanted him, that her mouth said "no" but her body said "yes," and thus that it wasn't rape. And especially when the song title itself is "Blurred Lines," it's not hard to see why this song could sound the thought processes of those who act in murky situations and in the process traumatize women.
On the topic of Blurred Lines, I think the biggest issues about the song was it's combination with the music video where the women were all naked while the men are fully dressed. The women are basically there as props to look sexy and it just sends a really bad message which is why I can understand how rape culture is brought into the discussion.
Clean version replaces "hoes" with "girls"...
Vermillion
Banned
I'm saying that it doesn't have to be. People can find the lyrics disturbing because (to them) it sounds like something a date rapist could say. That "I know you want it" is presumptuous and may precede some super-touchy, "won't-take-no-for-an-answer" guy assaulting them.
Granted, yes "I love you" and other innocuous phrases can precede rape as well (as I mentioned myself earlier in the thread), but the fact that it's so closely tied to sex makes people more uncomfortable. Even if it's innocuous in the context of the song, a lot of guys exist that may feel themselves too much and end up doing something stupid.
Don't get me wrong, though - I still think that the song is tame (especially since, again, Thicke is waiting for her to make her move and sign her consent). But I also understand what may trigger PTSD for people - Thicke is assuming that he's right that she wants to fuck him.
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm not sure why but music has always been a medium where a lot of different people will have different interpretations of the same content. It's not like abstract art but maybe the combination of tones, rhythms and words bring out different feelings in different people. I remember back when Prince released "If I Was Your Girlfriend" a lot of people interpreted different meanings from the song which kind of reminds me a little bit of what's going on with "Blurred Lines" even though the songs have nothing to do with each other.
On a different note a friend in college actually made a convincing argument that the song "Thriller" was actually about rape.
On a different note a friend in college actually made a convincing argument that the song "Thriller" was actually about rape.
Jest Chillin
Member
I think though, that Pop Music specifically, isn't really a genre that should be interpreted in the same way abstract or impressionist paintings are. Generally the lyrics are vague and full of imagery but that's only an attempt to appeal to broad audiences rather than to inspire personal interpretation of meaning.
I get that point but now you just described 80% of music videos.
DoktorEvil
Banned
So the point is no longer relevant because it describes a wider trend in the media? No, I don't think so.
Rape involves penetration against the victim's will. I should know this because I just studied rape last month in my Criminal Law class.
What I see here is people trying to shoehorn an element of rape into this song even though it clearly does not exist.
Is there any indication that the woman is resisting his advances? No. Is there any indication that he drugged her in order to incapacitate her? No. Is there any indication that he threatened her? No. Is there any indication that she is not acting of her own volition? No. Is there a showing that she has given ANY indication that she does not wish to be bothered with him? No.
But somehow, this song is about rape. For the people saying that this song is a rape anthem, please explain to me the difference between a rape anthem, and a sexually flirtatious anthem.....because we need to have some things cleared up.
EDIT: Could he still rape her if they went back to his apartment/home? Absolutely. Could they also have consensual sex? Absolutely.
But why is this about rape though? (ESPECIALLY considering the circumstances in which everything has been consensual so far)
It's still referring to the girls that are hoes and not all girls. It's like people want things to be offensive.
Saint Gregory
Member
Some of the time it's also people hilariously mishearing a single word which changes the entire meaning of songs. I can't even describe how many times I've heard someone singing along to a song and changing an important phrase which took the song to places it didn't belong :/
When I was in school BET After Dark was my only source of porn. Real talk.
No, man, don't you get it. This song is about sex and rape involves sex, therefore the song is rapey. And also, he said "I know you want it," which is what rapists sometimes say. In conclusion, Robin Thicke is an evil-rapist-Hitler-incarnate and should have a rocket strapped to his dick and balls and launched into the sun.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Do you have something meaningful to say about this that isn't acting like a child because people have emotions?
I've made salient points on the first page, now I can mock your non-arguments because you have no leg to stand on here. You shit up all the threads with your PC crusade.
JJDinomite
Banned
LOL for real. You've put the whole Thicke debate into perspective
Gee willikers, you guys, don't you have anything meaningful to say? People's feelings are at stake here!
This would have fixed everything right there.
Well, to be pedantic, there is some talk of drug use that's arguably a bit creepy:
But more importantly, the story is being told from the rapist's perspective.
The rapist thinks she's into him. He knows she wants it. That she's an animal that wants her hair pulled and ass smacked.
What would your Criminal Law class have to say about taking only the defendant's story into account?
To be clear, the song isn't necessarily about rape. Certainly sometimes when a man "knows she wants it" he's right. Sometimes women do want their hair pulled and their ass smacked. Sometimes the exact same words can be exchanged, but mean completely different things.
My understanding is that this sort of gray area (or blurred line) is what makes prosecuting rape so troubling. The fact that consent is often implicit in consensual sex, which in turn means that consent could be inferred even when it isn't present. Or did they not cover that in your class?
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