People are judging him by the company he keeps. Which is perfectly fair.
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Ron Paul to Speak at Holocaust Denier's 'Gala Dinner Fundraiser'
- Thread starter Slayven
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The group guy straight up denies the holocaust in the portion of the article you quoted! It's the last paragraph of your quote!
You are saying a Holocaust denier is not an anti-Semite. What.
Also, you're conveniently forgetting that this is a fundraiser. By speaking at a fundraiser, he is using his time to support them. How do you not get that?
eBay Huckster
Member
Of course he does.
Haha, did you even read what you posted? OMG
I'm not entirely sure at this point, I mean we do have a defense force for everything...
No I said he denies such charges.
Again guilt by association is a weak attack on someone character, that all I'm saying.
Thanks for linking to this article.
I see that Ron Paul once again is trying to get people to think he's an idiot that knows nothing about the people he's constantly associating with. How many times must he deny knowing about the beliefs of people he associates with?
Again, Nicholas Gruner was defrocked by the Catholic church. He has been directly repudiated by mainstream Catholicism. Calling the organization he heads "Catholic" significantly downplays its extremism by conflating it with a mainstream religion which actively rejects his ideology.
And your quote shows him denying charges of anti-Semitism while denying the Holocaust. Kinda impressively brazen, in a twisted way.
Then why the fuck did you bring him denying it up in the first place if we all know the organization is a bunch of raging anti-Semites already?
Again, he's supporting the group by speaking at their fundraiser.
Do you hold similar grudges against Obama for his association with Timothy Mcveigh and Jeramhaia wright?
No kidding. A lot of aggressive people for a weekend thread...lol
You realize that his denial of the charges includes a denial of the holocaust? You did read what you posted up there right?
I'd like to point out that normally I'd agree with you, expect for the fact that no one else of Paul's stature is speaking at this sort of thing with these kinds of people. He's speaking at a fundraiser for an anti-semetic group, basically raising money for them. It's one thing to know someone, it's another to actively raise money for them especially after they're revealed to be these kinds of people.
eBay Huckster
Member
Well, given the choice between A) claiming he's a huge idiot who can't help but take massive donations from scum of the earth and appearing with them constantly during and between all of his campaigns thus far and B) admitting he himself is scum of the earth, I can't blame him for choosing A
Yes, he denied being anti-semitic, then made an anti-semitic statement.
I didnt want to get into this but is "denial of the holocaust" the same as questioning it's scale?
YES. It happened, we have records of the number of people that went through concentration camps. We know exactly what happened, when it happened and where it happened. This is one of those things that we all know happened and no one in their right mind even questions.
eBay Huckster
Member
Well, it's certainly one of its key tenets according to practically every major organization involved in reminding the world of the Holocaust, key among them YAD VASHEM.
OK I just ask because there do seem quite a few intellectuals that state the holocaust did happen but not to the extent that is claimed. They are called holocaust deniers where I don't think that's really fair.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Is there something you'd like to say? Because between this and posting photoshopped pics of Obama, I'm really thinking your politics line up with the group you're defending.
Fuck it I'm done.
I'm not defending anyone. Not everyone has an agenda in every post. Again my point in this thread was that Ron Paul is being unfairly attacked because of his associations just as Obama is attacked for his associations. Character assasination rather than debating ideas.
StopMakingSense
Member
Critically read what he said, he is flat out saying it didn't happen. He's not QUESTIONING THE SCALE.
.
eBay Huckster
Member
We're talking about Gruner, and I'm pretty sure he explicitly says in the same line as saying "13 million before, 13 million after":
That's not "not to the extent that is claimed", that's flat-out questioning whether any of them were killed at all. Open-and-shut case of Holocaust denial and I'm stunned that you're actually trying to spin it as something else.
He's not denying that Jews were targeted, only the number. That's is not denying the Holocaust at all.
His "questioning of the scale" of the Holocaust consists of stating that there were 13 million Jews before it and 13 million Jews after it. He is saying that the death toll was a whopping zero.
Yes, it is a blanket denial.
Try actually reading it. He's implying that the number is ZERO. I never thought I'd have this conversation on GAF.
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The Autumn Wind
You do seem to be defending them, yes. And I'm still trying to figure out how a photoshopped pic of Obama standing next to Timothy McVeigh means he associated with him.
He's not denying the holocaust, he's just downplaying it to a point where it never really occured. Jesus you're dense if you can't see the difference.
You havent heard of the alledged associations between McVeigh and Obama? Fox news used to talk about it daily.
How many times do i have to state I am just against guilt by association character attacks?. For anyone.
I don't get why goomba keeps bringing up Obama; does he think we like Obama?
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The Autumn Wind
Crackpot conspiracy theories about someone don't mean anything. We're talking about actual facts here.
Fox News used to talk about the birth certificate stuff daily. It doesn't mean shit.
Raising money for someone goes a little beyond just knowing them at some point in your past.
I disagree. I don't bother with the debate but I've seen the argument before. They believe that the true number was in the hundreds of thousands rather than millions and more than just Jews were targeted. You can kill less than a million and still have 13 million. 13 million a rounded number anyway. That said, what he said could still be taken as you said. I'm just speaking on arguments I've heard before and trying to make sense of a debate for some people. It's in the past and I honestly do not care either way. Just thought I'd stop by the thread to make the statement.
So are you trying to wean people off of making these attacks with your repeated associations of anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists with mainstream Catholics or what?
Downplaying the holocaust to the scale of a few hundreds of thousands is basically Holocaust denial, because when you "round the numbers", you're saying that 13 million people that supposedly died didn't.
And what on Earth are you talking about with the "more than just Jews were targeted" as if it's some underdog theory? We know this. It's taught in fucking grade school.
lol what? All i was doing was showing that some people do see the Catholic church as anti semetic. This group is catholic and are being called anti semetic.
eBay Huckster
Member
So are you just intentionally not reading any of the actual posts in this thread, or...
I dunno, this thread has been going places I never thought I'd see a thread go on GAF.
thezerofire
Banned
the article specifically mentions the guy got kicked out of the Catholic Church. It's distinctly not Catholic
The Fatima Center, a grassroots association of Catholic priests"
http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/witfc.pdf
A bunch of Anti-Semitics rolling around with a Semitic name just comes across as ironic to me.
eBay Huckster
Member
Oh, it's worse than I thought.
You've got Wolf Blitzeritis.
(Tip: look up what "defrocked" means)
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