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Rottenwatch: QUANTUM OF SOLACE

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I still like QoS more than CR. The first half of CR is just zzzzzzzz... the director somehow manages to suck out all the life and excitement of even that crazy parkour scene.
 
Ford Prefect said:
The director somehow manages to suck out all the life and excitement of even that crazy parkour scene.
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You've never been so wrong before. That whole sequence was one of the better action segments seen in the last few years and certainly takes a gigantic dump over terribly choreographed but more importantly edited action scenes in Solace.

It's a shame in a way Solace couldn't have done better, just in terms of getting a resolution with the current story arc, but Quantum was plagued with so many problems and issues, I'm interested where they will go from here.
 
Solo said:
QoS should officially becomes the highest grossing Bond domestically at some point this weekend. Talk about just barely crawling past CR.

Speaking of Casino Royale, I popped in my Blu-ray and watched it again today for the first time since seeing QoS, and 2 things really stuck out for me. First and foremost is how amazing it is. Its not that Id forgetten by any means, but the movie felt the need to remind me. I was as riveted today as I was over 2 years ago.

The second is a bit more troublesome, as the existence of QoS and character motives sort of muddy the waters. Its with respect to Bond learning Le Chiffe's tell one hand, only to have Le Chiffre use it against Bond the next hand, meaning that someone most likely informed him. After seeing CR, the obvious choice appeared to be Mathis, as he was revealed to be a double agent, working for Le Chiffre. However, after seeing QoS, we know that Mathis was in fact NOT a dirty agent. So this leaves only 2 possibilities. First is Vesper, but that doesnt really makes sense given the timeline, as she doesnt find out her boyfriend has been "kidnapped" until after the game. So that really only leaves the option that Le Chiffre faked a tell, then used it against Bond. Any other options?

Anyways, that was one thing that stuck out/bothered me. Perhaps its just a spot of messy writing and there is no answer. Who knows.
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Vesper was the double agent all along. She was feeding info to Le Chiffre, and probably told him to name Mathis ("I'm afraid your friend Mathis is actually my friend Mathis") as means of misdirection.

I don't know why you think the boyfriend was only "kidnapped" after the poker game. I don't remember if anything is ever explicitly said in either movie about the timeline, but I was under the impression that Quantum was using Vesper as a backup plan in case Le Chiffre lost the game; this way, regardless of whether he won or Bond won, the money would ultimately be returned to Quantum. Plus, there's the fact that Vesper made a deal with Mr. White to spare Bond (when he killed Le Chiffre), which happens immediately after the game, so she would have already know that her boyfriend was kidnapped.

I think Vesper was under Quantum's influence before she even met Bond, or at least as soon as she learned she was going to be paired with him on a mission.
 
master15 said:
You've never been so wrong before.
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Yeah, I'm the only person I know who prefers QoS. I just think it's a beautiful little mood piece and it's one of the most fun theatre experiences I've ever had. A lot of the things people cite as weaknesses I see as pros. Take Amalric's rather standard villain-- is it so bad that for once Bond isn't attempted to be outshone by an increasingly ridiculous bad guy who lives in a volcano or cries blood or some shit?
 
Oh I liked the direction the film was going in the trailers - Greene looked like an interesting (and by Bond standards, unconventional) villian, the action sequences looked stunning, Craig as bond back and as cold blooded as ever, Felix looking more relevant, Olga's raw beauty (she wasn't as glammed up as other bond girls) and heck the opening theme could've been forgiven if there was a good intro sequence to back it up.

But almost all of these aspects undelievered on the promise. It's not the worst film of the year (in fact it's a very competant action film) - just the most dissapointing.
 
I was going in this expecting to be dissapointed but after watching was genuinely surprised. I thought the length was perfect as it felt even slower to me. The action could have been better but it was a really good film and worthy follow up to CR imo though nowhere near as good.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Take Amalric's rather standard villain-- is it so bad that for once Bond isn't attempted to be outshone by an increasingly ridiculous bad guy who lives in a volcano or cries blood or some shit?
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I take no issue with the writers wanting to create a more believable villain, but they did ZILCH with him. At least give him some good lines or anything to do other than stand there, try to look menacing, and do some double dealing. They wasted a great actor in a thankless role.

I like the movie, but it's easily the most disappointing for me this year. :(
 
Director Roger Michell (who had worked with Craig twice before) was originally attached to the film when it was dubbed Bond 22, but turned it down because of the script:

Roger Michell said:
there was a start date but really no script at all
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http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/theatre/article1877785.ece


The film isn't bad but it does seem like a random set of bizarrely edited action scenes cobbled together. For the next film the producers need to sack Neal Purvis &
Robert Wade and take their time on finding a decent script.
 
broadwayrock said:
Director Roger Michell (who had worked with Craig twice before) was originally attached to the film when it was dubbed Bond 22, but turned it down because of the script:



http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/theatre/article1877785.ece


The film isn't bad but it does seem like a random set of bizarrely edited action scenes cobbled together. For the next film the producers need to sack Neal Purvis &
Robert Wade and take their time on finding a decent script.
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The problem isn't the writers, it's that the script was rushed because of the strike.
 
Finally got to see this, damn the slow Japanese release dates on movies.

I was as many in here disappointed though. Spastic editing, unmemorable scenes, bland cast outside of Bond and the regulars. It was somewhat exciting from an action standpoint, but fails on so many other levels. Did not feel like a Bond movie at all.
 
Blader5489 said:
The problem isn't the writers, it's that the script was rushed because of the strike.
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Not true. The script that was done when the strike hit was a whole lot better than what was shot. Broccoli, Wilson and Forster did a real hack job to it.

Basically, Broccoli and Wilson are doing the same bullshit they did after Goldeneye, believing their own hype and letting their heads grow too big.
 
polyh3dron said:
Not true. The script that was done when the strike hit was a whole lot better than what was shot. Broccoli, Wilson and Forster did a real hack job to it.

Basically, Broccoli and Wilson are doing the same bullshit they did after Goldeneye, believing their own hype and letting their heads grow too big.
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That is what Quantum of Solace reminded me of exactly.

Goldeney came out as a "reinvention of the series. Granted, nothing to the extent of Casino Royale, but still. And it was a huge success, both critically and commercially. Then Tomorrow Never Dies came out and while it was a fairly competent action film, it was nowhere near as good as Goldeneye. The same goes for Quantum of Solace compared to Casino Royale.

So does that mean that the next Bond will be as bad as The World is Not Enough? *Shudders*
 
The fact this movie has a 65 percent, yet Gran Tarino, one of the worst, most blatantly over-rated, poor excuses for a film I have ever seen has 76 percent, is a joke.
 
I think Casino Royale was so good that it made it easy for QoS to let everyone down. I think if they stick to their plan and the next movie completes the overall story that started in Casino Royale, then QoS might not be as bad when looked upon in hindsight. It doesn't stand on it's own as a movie, but seems like its purpose is to bridge CR and whatever the next movie is.
 
I just got a chance to see this because it was finally released in Japanese theatres today.

I liked it a lot as a sequel to Casino Royale. I could see it not making much sense to anyone who hadn't seen the first one. Other than the first 20 minutes or so which was filled with shakey-cam action that was hard to follow, I thought the movie was quite excellent.

I hope that the next movie continues on this plot and has Bond going against another member of the "organization". In fact, it would be cool if all of Craig's Bond movies went along with this story arc. I am really enjoying the new take on Bond and I hope they stick with this style and don't let things get too ridiculous.

I can't wait to buy the Blu-ray of this and watch it in succession with Casino Royale.
 
polyh3dron said:
Not true. The script that was done when the strike hit was a whole lot better than what was shot. Broccoli, Wilson and Forster did a real hack job to it.

Basically, Broccoli and Wilson are doing the same bullshit they did after Goldeneye, believing their own hype and letting their heads grow too big.
Click to expand...

And how do you know what the script was like before it was shot?
 
Ford Prefect said:
Yeah, I'm the only person I know who prefers QoS. I just think it's a beautiful little mood piece and it's one of the most fun theatre experiences I've ever had. A lot of the things people cite as weaknesses I see as pros. Take Amalric's rather standard villain-- is it so bad that for once Bond isn't attempted to be outshone by an increasingly ridiculous bad guy who lives in a volcano or cries blood or some shit?
Click to expand...

Even though I like Casino Royale more, I loved the character development in QoS. It gave alot of insights into Bond being not just "the good guy". I generally am more interested in characters than plots in any medium anyway, so maybe it's just me.
 
It really is, but just reminded of what a useless henchman Elvis turned out to be.

Does he do anything eventful in this movie? :lol
 
This movie should be shown in every practical film class as an example of how not to edit. I went in wanting to like it so much, but those jumbled re-establishing-shot-free action sequences were completely incoherent by the end. The climax is possibly the clumsiest mess of editing I've ever seen.
 
Watch it again, bud. I wont be so bold as to say youll love it the seocnd time, but I bet you like it more than you did the first time.
 
I'm a HUGE fan of Casino Royale but I have no interest in picking up QoS on DVD. Certainly my most disappointing film of 2008.
 
Wow, lots of hate. I'm not a huge bond fan, enjoyed Casino Royale, but thought this was a fun entertaining film. The Opera scene by itself was impressive enough for it to be a "good" film in my book.

Yes the editing and pacing was fucking wack, but it was still enjoyable.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
:)

Well, I still love it, I just no longer think it might be the best Bond film.
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Ok, fair enough. I thought you were going to say you hated it the second time. That would have amused me, because then you and I would have had directly opposing experiences with this movie upon repeat viewings.

I rank Casino Royale, From Russia With Love, and On Her Majesty's Secret Service ahead of QoS, with The Living Daylights rounding out the top five. Thunderball has been kicked out of that group now.
 
CR is my top Bond, Goldfinger close behind and probably this a little bit behind that.

Goldfinger is kinda silly, but it's so perfect.

I need to see The Living daylights again, I remember loving it but have not rewatched it since the early 90s.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
I need to see The Living daylights again, I remember loving it but have not rewatched it since the early 90s.
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If its not out yet on Blu-ray yet, Im sure it will be before the end of the year. I havent kept up with the individual or 3-pack releases since Im just waiting for the full box set to hit (which I expect will be in November or December this year).
 
I watched it again the other day and found myself skimming through it. The action in this movie bores the shit out of me and there is no story momentum or sense of danger. The odd badass Bond moment and Craig's great performance salvage it slightly. So disappointing. =/
 
I must say that I REALLY dig David Arnold's score in this. The opening track is fantastic, as is the music accompanying the opera scene (this cue is also played in the menus of the Blu-ray version). Hes really done a 180 on CR and QoS, to the point that I no look forward to what he does next. There was a time when he could have keeled over and died and I wouldnt have cared.
 
Solo said:
I must say that I REALLY dig David Arnold's score in this. The opening track is fantastic, as is the music accompanying the opera scene (this cue is also played in the menus of the Blu-ray version). Hes really done a 180 on CR and QoS, to the point that I no look forward to what he does next. There was a time when he could have keeled over and died and I wouldnt have cared.
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Me too. I especially loved the music during the opera scene. I know that it was from Tosca and Arnold had nothing do to with it, but I really enjoyed it nonetheless :D
 
Blader5489 said:
Me too. I especially loved the music during the opera scene. I know that it was from Tosca and Arnold had nothing do to with it, but I really enjoyed it nonetheless :D
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No, Im not talking about the actual opera music (which I also liked too), but rather this, which IS Arnold (its the music played during the opera scene before the actual opera begins):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsbXFm_NaSI
 
Finally watched the movie (I own every film and I'm a classic Bond fan, avoided this one due to the bad reviews and waited for the DVD).

First of all, the opening track was horrible. I don't think I've ever really disliked an opening to a Bond film before. I even really liked the Madonna one that everyone else seems to dislike. But this one was terrible. The so called 'signature' opening title sequence was equally crap.

The movie itself was ok. It was worth watching. However I had no idea who the actual bad guy was all the way to the end of the film. Obviously, there's a bunch of bad guys. But there's always the main dude in Bond films, and I honestly had no idea who the main bad dude was until the ending credits rolled, and I figured it to be the oil drinking guy (right?).

Because of this the whole movie lacked direction. I never really understood what Bond was trying to accomplish.

I don't think it's the worst Bond movie ever made. But it was certainly one of the worst. The only thing I really enjoyed was the fact Bond didn't bone the main woman. That's a first I believe and I commend the writers for doing something different. Shame about everything else though.
 
Mar_ said:
Because of this the whole movie lacked direction. I never really understood what Bond was trying to accomplish.
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Bond brought Mr. White in, who proceeded to escape because of his agent in MI6, Mitchell. MI6 ran checks on Mitchell, and linked him with a man in Haiti (via marked bills). Bond went to Haiti to investigate, and ended up killing the guy. He then went with the flow and assumed the guy's identity, which set him up with Camille, who then lead him to Greene (the bad guy you were asking for). Bond eventually learns that Greene's scheme is controlling the water supply/creating a drought, and proceeds to bring him down.
 
I liked the movie even more after rewatching

Definitely one of my favorite Bonds and almost equal with Casino Royale

Somehow even the editing didnt really seem problematic anymore. I think I really love the way the car chase is done at the start of the movie.
 
Dead said:
Somehow even the editing didnt really seem problematic anymore. I think I really love the way the car chase is done at the start of the movie.
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Its really stylishly done. I like how it starts with quick cuts of the Aston Martin shimmering in the light, and no sound. Then the score gradually builds up and comes in, and you get this really meaty sound of the engine revving. I dont think Marc Forster has the best grasp on setting up/editing action scenes, but theres no denying he has some nice visual flair.
 
Solo said:
Its really stylishly done. I like how it starts with quick cuts of the Aston Martin shimmering in the light, and no sound. Then the score gradually builds up and comes in, and you get this really meaty sound of the engine revving. I dont think Marc Forster has the best grasp on setting up/editing action scenes, but theres no denying he has some nice visual flair.
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That, plus the entire build up in the studio titles with Arnolds score and then the cutting between Italy and the car speeding up is just fantastic

Arnolds score is really good in this movie too, probably his best I think.
 
Dead said:
Arnolds score is really good in this movie too, probably his best I think.
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Agreed. His Casino Royale score had one or two more memorable themes (notably Vesper's), but overall Quantum is more consistently great. I really love he how never once blasts out the Bond theme in full force until the credits, but instead uses parts of it here and there in all sorts off odd arrangements.
 
I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't catch QoS in theaters despite it being my most anticipated film of the year :(.

QoS really surprised me. Seeing some of the review scores, talk of it being extremely short, the director change and etc had me somewhat rattled. However I enjoyed the heck out of this film. It wasn't as good as Casino Royale, but it was much better than I expected. Visually the series remains as the #1 choice for my high def collection. It looks great and there are a number of great looking scenes that shine on my set. Craigs presence is electrifying in this series. As Bond he's constantly surprising me with his brutality, but he also brings a lot of real emotion to the character that makes smaller actions more pronounced. His rage at times doesn't seem forced. It's very natural and you can get a sense at where the characters head is. Craigs Bond is such an enjoyable character that I'm not beyond more dialogue and far more attention to plot for the future of the series. His ability to create chemistry with almost anyone around him creates such potential for the series. I groaned when I heard Olga Kurylenko would be in the movie, but whether it was her upping her game or Craig enhancing her performance her presence wasn't a negative for me in the movie.

One point in the film that was awkward and I thought could have used more depth was Agent
Fields character. Bonds charms are great and all, but her basically entering the situation like a hooker, then immediately fucking Bond wasn't very believable. Then helping him on his task when she should have locked him up was awkward. Her death was an interesting point in the story for Bond and I thought it had some impact, but I felt they missed a chance at lengthening the film a bit and adding some more depth to Fields' character to enhance the impact of her situation more.

I really hope they think of very interesting places to take Bonds character as well as to introduce interesting characters to place around him. Bond going on random missions to stop terrorist #43 is interesting, but I think it's a disservice to Craig and what he brings to the table for the series.
 
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