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Rottenwatch: WATCHMEN

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Well we could split hairs all day about why Watchmen fans are overly sensitive about the critic reviews, but I guess it really just comes down to the fact that they don't want to be on the losing end.

I myself being a Watchmen newbie am looking forward to seeing the movie this Friday and I really don't care what Variety says about it, whether it loves the movie or dismisses it. I'm gonna enjoy the movie for what it is.
 
Google said:
Just read the Variety review.

Those of you upset by this review need to understand something:

Variety knows more about movies than you.

While I've no doubt I'll enjoy the movie, I'm not anticipating the second coming of Jerry Maguire here.
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so much dumb in one post
 
Acid08 said:
I could give a fuck less if some reviewer knows more about the movie business than me. That won't change my opinion on a movie if I loved it and the reviewer didn't.
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Have you even read the review? It's not particularly negative.

The fact that so many of you in this thread are freaking out over the audacity of a publication like Variety (they really do know more about the movie industry than you) not digging the movie as much as you (even though you've probably not even seen it yet) is quite literally flabbergasting.

Calling me pretentious for throwing fact into an arena of so much intangible bullshit just screams moronic.
 
birdman said:
Well we could split hairs all day about why Watchmen fans are overly sensitive about the critic reviews, but I guess it really just comes down to the fact that they don't want to be on the losing end.

I myself being a Watchmen newbie am looking forward to seeing the movie this Friday and I really don't care what Variety says about it, whether it loves the movie or dismisses it. I'm gonna enjoy the movie for what it is.
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See, I think there a lot more of people like you then there are people like me, people who have never read the work, I mean.

And I get it. Visually it's staggeringly iconic, and conceptually it's quite easy to get excited about it. And it's also very dense source material so it's quite easy for someone to read and enjoy the original as just a straight up superhero story and not really get what the big deal is about this or that change. (There is also the rare person like Ignatz who knows everything about Watchmen but has the enviable fortitude to be able to just appreciate the movie for what it is no matter what they changed about it. Seriously, I wish I was more like that.)

But at the end of the day, for a handful of the people who admire Watchmen for the landmark work it is, who read comics every week and write about them and make their own and take them pretty seriously, this whole thing has ended up a pretty grotesque example of the unsuitability of certain works for film adaptation.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
See, I think there a lot more of people like you then there are people like me, people who have never read the work, I mean.

And I get it. Visually it's staggeringly iconic, and conceptually it's quite easy to get excited about it. And it's also very dense source material so it's quite easy for someone to read and enjoy the original as just a straight up superhero story and not really get what the big deal is about this or that change. (There is also the rare person like Ignatz who knows everything about Watchmen but has the enviable fortitude to be able to just appreciate the movie for what it is no matter what they changed about it. Seriously, I wish I was more like that.)

But at the end of the day, for a handful of the people who admire Watchmen for the landmark work it is, who read comics every week and write about them and make their own and take them pretty seriously, this whole thing has ended up a pretty grotesque example of the unsuitability of certain works for film adaptation.
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We get it. You can stop now.
 
Google said:
Have you even read the review? It's not particularly negative.

The fact that so many of you in this thread are freaking out over the audacity of a publication like Variety (they really do know more about the movie industry than you) not digging the movie as much as you (even though you've probably not even seen it yet) is quite literally flabbergasting.

Calling me pretentious for throwing fact into an arena of so much intangible bullshit just screams moronic.
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guys rolling stone knows more about music than me, so them blowjobbing all over Nickelback must mean I know nothing about music
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I don't see how a "Watchmen [fan]" can look at this movie as having any real connection to the original printed work. It is a work of immense detail, all of which contributes to the tone of the work and about 8% of which will ever even have a chance of being captured in film.
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Do you know "The Cider House Rules" by John Irving and the film adaptation with Tobey Maguire? There are so many differences between that book and the movie, but the themes and the feeling are so similar that both can exist side by side. Both are entertaining and they kind of complement each other.

My hope is that in the end the same happens with Watchmen. My fear is that it ends up like Harry Potter, where the movies feel like they just took the most important scenes from the book and the result doesn't feel coherent.

But then again, I'm probably not the typical Watchmen fan. I like stupid blockbusters, I don't read too many comics and I only read Watchmen after I saw the first trailers, which is why I probably won't care about the changes as much as somebody who read the book 20 years ago. And I enjoyed the 300 movie more than the comic...
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
But at the end of the day, for a handful of the people who admire Watchmen for the landmark work it is, who read comics every week and write about them and make their own and take them pretty seriously, this whole thing has ended up a pretty grotesque example of the unsuitability of certain works for film adaptation.
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That will always be the problem when you change from the medium the original work was in to another one. There will always be that loss in translation, and for better or worse, people will just either have to take it for what it is in the new medium, or not accept it at all. I wish everyone could go with the former, but that kind of unbiased thinking is nigh impossible for everything.
 
People are upset with the Variety review? I can't figure out why. It's a fine review that points out that Snyder isn't really capable of helming a major motion picture (he never has been).

The New Yorker review is something else though. That dude just hated Watchmen to the core. Not just the movie, he seemed to be out to blast Moore's original work as often as possible.
 
StrikerObi said:
The New Yorker review is something else though. That dude just hated Watchmen to the core. Not just the movie, he seemed to be out to blast Moore's original work as often as possible.
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Money says Moore ran over his dog. Twice.
 
I'm going to be the anti-BB and say I love comics, I love movies, I love Alan Moore, I love Zack Snyder, I love Watchmen, and I'm excited as shit to see this movie. :D
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I'll just stop posting in this thread. Congratulations.
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No stay.

We're on the same wavelength.

It's a shame people are unable to look at things they like with an objective point of view.
 
It's just infuriating, and this is what's so incomprehensible to me, I'm not throwing around shit like "Oh, you don't GET Watchmen" I'm saying pretty sensible things about the differences between two mediums, both of which have their own limitations. I'm not insulting people's opinions. I'm just explaining why I don't understand them. But apparently for Blader that's all just way too much to wade through.

Put me on ignore then, I don't give a fuck. But when I disagree with someone, I put some thought into why and explain that position. I don't just get out of my seat, yell "BORING" and sit back down.

If you go back through the thread, you'll see that I've softened quite a bit on the movie. While I don't think the movie will ever hold any appeal to me, it's clear that Snyder respects the work. It's clear that Gibbons was hugely influential on the production design. There are plenty of things going for it.

But it also raises an interesting issue about the two mediums, one which I am pretty interested in. But if I'm going to get carped at every time I bring it up (and the fact that the conversation continues to be engaged by several parties means it's not tapped out yet) then what's the point?
 
Good god, that New Yorker review is horrible. The other negative reviews seem to have pretty reasonable criticisms, though.

I'm not expecting to like the film, but I have to see it anyway.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
It's just infuriating, and this is what's so incomprehensible to me, I'm not throwing around shit like "Oh, you don't GET Watchmen"
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That's exactly what you said!

You said:
But at the end of the day, for a handful of the people who admire Watchmen for the landmark work it is, who read comics every week and write about them and make their own and take them pretty seriously, this whole thing has ended up a pretty grotesque example of the unsuitability of certain works for film adaptation.
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Google said you bring an objective point of view to this subject, but you're probably the least objective person here, especially when you throw around pretentious shit like "People who understand Watchmen, and read comics every week can't be looking forward to this movie."
 
Blader5489 said:
That's exactly what you said!



Google said you bring an objective point of view to this subject, but you're probably the least objective person here, especially when you throw around pretentious shit like "People who understand Watchmen, and read comics every week can't be looking forward to this movie."
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I was describing a small amount of people not saying that's the only group who understands the book. I was very careful to frame it as such to avoid the accusation you just levied, as that is not at all what I believe.
 
Google said:
Have you even read the review? It's not particularly negative.

The fact that so many of you in this thread are freaking out over the audacity of a publication like Variety (they really do know more about the movie industry than you) not digging the movie as much as you (even though you've probably not even seen it yet) is quite literally flabbergasting.

Calling me pretentious for throwing fact into an arena of so much intangible bullshit just screams moronic.
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I didn't call you pretentious and I wasn't speaking specifically about the Variety review. More like about reviews in general don't really color my opinion on anything anymore. I could care less what these people think.
 
The Lamonster said:
I'm going to be the anti-BB and say I love comics, I love movies, I love Alan Moore, I love Zack Snyder, I love Watchmen, and I'm excited as shit to see this movie. :D
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Same. I cannot fucking wait to see this bitch on IMAX at midnight.
 
Google said:
Then why the fuck are you here, if all you give a shit about is your own opinion?
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I don't only give a shit about my opinions. I listen and take suggestions from my friends because they have similar taste, so I know I can trust what they think.

And I'm here because this is the Watchmen thread is it not? I'm pretty sure I can come in here and talk about how excited I am to see the movie with other like minded people. Instead you're in here saying that because the staff of a magazine knows more about the movie industry than me that somehow their take on the movie is more correct than mine? Wow, okay man.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
It's just infuriating, and this is what's so incomprehensible to me, I'm not throwing around shit like "Oh, you don't GET Watchmen" I'm saying pretty sensible things about the differences between two mediums, both of which have their own limitations. I'm not insulting people's opinions. I'm just explaining why I don't understand them. But apparently for Blader that's all just way too much to wade through.

Put me on ignore then, I don't give a fuck. But when I disagree with someone, I put some thought into why and explain that position. I don't just get out of my seat, yell "BORING" and sit back down.

If you go back through the thread, you'll see that I've softened quite a bit on the movie. While I don't think the movie will ever hold any appeal to me, it's clear that Snyder respects the work. It's clear that Gibbons was hugely influential on the production design. There are plenty of things going for it.

But it also raises an interesting issue about the two mediums, one which I am pretty interested in. But if I'm going to get carped at every time I bring it up (and the fact that the conversation continues to be engaged by several parties means it's not tapped out yet) then what's the point?
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I think people are getting annoyed because you've been crapping all over the Watchmen threads for like 6+ months with your negativity - and I'm not saying you're trolling, but don't get all defensive and whiny when people show signs of being irritated by your chronic cynicism.
 
Acid08 said:
Instead you're in here saying that because the staff of a magazine knows more about the movie industry than me that somehow their take on the movie is more correct than mine? Wow, okay man.
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I've not said anything of the sort.

I've stated that there are people in this thread freaking out over a review in a publication that gave a fairly comprehensive, if underwhelming review of a film they want to see.

The arguments against said review consisted of:

"Bullshit"

"What bullshit is this"

"NOOOOO!!!!!"

"What the fuck does Variety do anyway?"

etc.

My point was simply that Variety is one of, if not THE film industry magazine to give a shit about. The magazine carries a fuck ton of weight, and the writers, regardless of whether you agree with their opinions, are more often that not, correct when it comes to reading the trends in their industry.
 
The Lamonster said:
I think people are getting annoyed because you've been crapping all over the Watchmen threads for like 6+ months with your negativity - and I'm not saying you're trolling, but don't get all defensive and whiny when people show signs of being irritated by your chronic cynicism.
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As I said, people can either paint me with a wide brush or actually read the content of my posts and see that I've been giving Snyder a lot of credit these past few weeks. And honestly, "crapping all over the Watchmen threads"? As I said, I'm not insulting anyone, and I'm not dooming the movie to failure. If you can't stomach the discussion of such a complicated work and the difficulties involved in translating it to a new medium, honestly, what were you expecting? Do you expect people to just erase the memory of the book from their minds? To diminish, temporarily, its accomplishments to compensate for a filmed version with inevitably less detail?

I've been described as many things. Overzealous. Overenthusiastic. Kind of annoying. But I'm pretty much the least cynical person I know.
 
If anyone didn't see it, there's an absurd Watchmen/Xbox Live deal at Best Buy. Thread over in the gaming forum with the deets...
 
smarties00 said:
I understand the violence and gore I've read Watchmen but seeing as its rated R in America I thought It would be a 15 over here.
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Doesn't Europe in general have a lower threshold for violence than the US?
 
Acid08 said:
Doesn't Europe in general have a lower threshold for violence than the US?
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Europe isn't England, friend.

I understand the violence and gore I've read Watchmen but seeing as its rated R in America I thought It would be a 15 over here
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Why does it matter?

When have cinema's ever given a shit about what age you are?
 
Milchjon said:
I have a question after reading the GN:
what's the reason why they took the squid out of the movie? Seemingly everybody agrees that original ending only works on paper and not on the big screen, but why?
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Having squid in the movie will need massive explanation. Not only will it force them to incorporate Black Freighter back in the movie, but they'll need to convert alot of end-comic articles into scenes. Also, it'll force them to add scenes of the writer/painter and distract people. The more i think about it, the more I'm pleased that squid is missing. I don't want a 5 hour marathon with massively slow pacing...
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
But it also raises an interesting issue about the two mediums, one which I am pretty interested in.
Click to expand...

Actually, you've pretty much displayed how much you're not interested in a discussion about the different form of storytelling between two mediums. You've already written off one form in favor of the other, because one is capable of condensing more detail in to the narrative.

you wouldn't have written off the film version on the basis of something that it can't conceivably accomplish if it were something you were genuinely interested in.
 
Chipopo said:
Actually, you've pretty much displayed how much you're not interested in a discussion about the different form of storytelling between two mediums. You've already written off one form in favor of the other, because one is capable of condensing more detail in to the narrative.

you wouldn't have written off the film version on the basis of something that it can't conceivably accomplish if it were something you were genuinely interested in.
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In this instance.

By your logic, I wouldn't have enjoyed Fight Club or There Will Be Blood or even large chunks of Ghost World. The reality is that I did enjoy them.
 
pvp20090302.gif



He's continuing.

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pvp20090304.gif
 
shagg_187 said:
Having squid in the movie will need massive explanation. Not only will it force them to incorporate Black Freighter back in the movie, but they'll need to convert alot of end-comic articles into scenes. Also, it'll force them to add scenes of the writer/painter and distract people. The more i think about it, the more I'm pleased that squid is missing. I don't want a 5 hour marathon with massively slow pacing...
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What did the Black Freighter have to do with the squid? I thought it was all metaphorical.
 
Google said:
My point was simply that Variety is one of, if not THE film industry magazine to give a shit about. The magazine carries a fuck ton of weight, and the writers, regardless of whether you agree with their opinions, are more often that not, correct when it comes to reading the trends in their industry.
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I don't give a shit about this movie, because I doubt it's any good. I mean, Zack Snyder.

But this is patently absurd. Yes, Variety does carry weight in terms of reporting on basic film industry goings-on. It holds questionable weight as a source for actual film reviews just because it's an industry mag. I wouldn't say Todd McCarthy is at the peak of understanding of the cinematic medium or anything - or is considered as such by cinephiles.
 
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