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Rottenwatch: WATCHMEN

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traveler said:
Just now catching up on the changes. I didn't see this answered anywhere, so I gotta ask-
what DOES the Comedian see on that island that makes him get so fearful if the squid is absent from the storyline?
haven't seen it yet so i can't specifically answer your question but
i think in the book it is not so much the squid that he is afraid of but what it represents, a conspiracy to fix humanity by destroying a chunk of it...and that's why he really takes his 'it's all just a big joke anyway' mentality so far. remember that the comedian really shares a lot of ideals with rorschach, and he faces the same conflict that rorschach does at the end, trying to reconcile the deaths of so many innocent people with protecting america from nuclear war...although it's a little more of an interesting conflict with rorschach who was so in favor of using nuclear weapons in ww2 to prevent american deaths...i think we were meant to assume that the comedian looks at it the same way

also, rt is down to 73% now (and 1/7 cream of the crop reviews positive) :/
still pretty excited after watching that hbo thing, but i'm not expecting it to have as well developed themes as the book. most of the cream of the crop reviews (ok except thr and hollywood reporter, those are pretty mindless reviews) seem to have the same issue: that the movie is obsessively loyal to the preservation of the images and plot of the novel (barring the ending), but to the point where the themes and conflicts are drowned out. and while having read the novel i assume that the conflict will still strike me, it will be because i expect them...i can see how somebody who has not read the book would miss them and see only a over-stylized visual extravaganza. and this is what i think the reviewers are pointing out; it's not that they haven't read the novel or don't 'get it', it's more that they can see how somebody who hasn't seen the novel might miss those things, and the reviewers are most likely looking at the movie as a film that should have been effective for everybody, not just people who have read the book.
 
N'gai Croal's Twittereview

Snap judgment on #Watchmen: a faithful, fetishistic, fascinating failure. More to follow after I feed.

@fruhlinger You should go anyway...streets will be talking about #Watchmen this weekend and into next week.

@aeazel The problem with the #Watchmen movie is stems from its incarnation in this medium, yes...

@aeazel But the problem I had was not in how #Watchmen has been transferred from graphic art to moving pictures...

@aeazel ...but rather in how #Watchmen was transferred from its serialized form to a one-off...

@aeazel The compression in #Watchmen the film is skillful, but it necessarily reduces the graphic novel to its plot...

@aeazel ...when, IMHO, what's most interesting to transfer from the #Watchmen comic to moving pictures is its *world*...


@aeazel Conclusion: As an HBO miniseries, #Watchmen could have been spectacular. As a film, it's a very honorable failure.

@TheGameCritique Length is not quite the problem with the #Watchmen film Compressed as it is, it's still too long for the movie format.

The #Watchmen movie is more than decent...it just doesn't work. It either needed to be much more compressed or opened way up.

So that's kind of an even split so far in terms of Game Journalists I Dig.
 
Just back from a screening.

It's a crazy movie, one of the least accessible movies to ever get as much money as this spent on its budget.

It's very shiny, in the tacky kind of way where you don't think it's an auteur's choice.

It's mostly very bad. You can't hate it, because it really feels like Snyder did his best, put his heart into it, wanted to make a work of art. It's just that he's seemingly not qualified for the job. Have to expect a poor word of mouth and a big drop after the first week.

4/10
 
Just saw At The Movies with Dave and Marg (movie review show here in Aus).
They were pretty positive, calling it a 'pleasant surprise'. Marg gave it 4 1/2 stars, Dave 4.
Called it the most mature superhero movie, said it knocked Iron Man and TDK out of the park (which I'm certain a few people around here will consider a pretty big call).
Maaaaaan I want to see this movie.
 
I think you have to remember that a lot of the critics seem to have a problem with the source material, too - If given the any one of the comics (or the compiled book) they'd leaf through a few pages, roll their eyes and toss it aside as immature rubbish without really paying an awful lot of attention. It's just something that - like it or not - a lot of people won't be receptive to by default. In general, if you're a big fan of the material you'll probably find a good amount to like in the film.
 
Since I'll be the only one among my friends to read the novel when we go I have a feeling I'll be the one liking it the most.

Also, Since the main complaint seems to be that there is almost too much content for the movie I wonder how the directors cut is going to be. It's going to be almost a half hour longer with a run time of 3 hr 10 minutes I believe.
 
ThePeacemaker02 said:
Since I'll be the only one among my friends to read the novel when we go I have a feeling I'll be the one liking it the most.

Also, Since the main complaint seems to be that there is almost too much content for the movie I wonder how the directors cut is going to be. It's going to be almost a half hour longer with a run time of 3 hr 10 minutes I believe.

I think the theatrical version is around 3 hours and two minutes.

I'm not sure about this film, I've checked metacritic, and the reviews have not been kind.
 
Any Box Office Predictions? Being the first big blockbuster of the year, I'm going optimistic and guessing 80-85 million opening.
 
J2 Cool said:
Any Box Office Predictions? Being the first big blockbuster of the year, I'm going optimistic and guessing 80-85 million opening.

I wouldn't get caught up in all the hype about it's ticket pre sales. It's still tracking awkwardly
because it's core audience is over 25 yo males.

300 was doing the same but was tracking better with women. Because Watchmen is a 'geek' property they tend to be more organised and order their tickets in advance. On 300 it was a film that appealed to the 'everyman' audience so they bought their tickets when they turned up ie the Friday night.

My personal bet is a solid $40 -50m and building from there. However the smart bet around town is $60m with some going as high $75m.

The milestone that everyone is looking at is 300's record breaking weekend which was IIRC $70m. But it's worth baring in mind that 300 was shorter and had a broader appeal.

But as the saying goes. When it comes to showbiz no one knows anything.
 
J2 Cool said:
Any Box Office Predictions? Being the first big blockbuster of the year, I'm going optimistic and guessing 80-85 million opening.
It's R rated I doubt it will get that high. I say roughly around 300 numbers, 70 million give or take.

WB is expecting a lot from it I'd imagine. It's production budget was 120 million and marketing budget of 50 million.
 
so the more I read the more my expectations have lowered. It sounds like they spent too much time trying to get every scene in the movie, and not enough time devleoping the actual characters. My box office predictions..it will probably do really well the first weekend. 40 Million, maybe 50. Then it will drop like a brick. Thinking it will just get to 100 million. Of course I could be wrong, but I really think poor word of mouth is going to bring this one down.
 
traveler said:
:lol

Any more elaboration than that, guys?

Very briefly. Snyder totally missed the point of the book. Where the comic was a parody, the movie is legitimately awful.
They lost the squid to make the film be taken more seriously, but the rest of the film is an unintentional joke.
 
ten5ive9ine said:
Very briefly. Snyder totally missed the point of the book. Where the comic was a parody, the movie is legitimately awful.
They lost the squid to make the film be taken more seriously, but the rest of the film is an unintentional joke.

Yikes. I can't remember a film that's divided an audience so much. It would appear that you either love it or hate it.

Either way...... I can't wait. :D
 
ten5ive9ine said:
Very briefly. Snyder totally missed the point of the book. Where the comic was a parody, the movie is legitimately awful.
They lost the squid to make the film be taken more seriously, but the rest of the film is an unintentional joke.

I see. Not to defend the movie, (as I haven't seen it) but I'm not really sure how well a deconstruction would work these days, given how much people have already done with that in regards to the superhero genre. Hancock, The Incredibles, darker superhero films like TDK- these have all, in one way or another, taken many of the ideas in Watchmen and run with them and, for a public unfamiliar with the work, I'm afraid Watchmen's once revolutionary concepts may end up being viewed as nothing more than derivative.
 
traveler said:
I see. Not to defend the movie, (as I haven't seen it) but I'm not really sure how well a deconstruction would work these days, given how much people have already done with that in regards to the superhero genre. Hancock, The Incredibles, darker superhero films like TDK- these have all, in one way or another, taken many of the ideas in Watchmen and run with them and, for a public unfamiliar with the work, I'm afraid Watchmen's once revolutionary concepts may end up being viewed as nothing more than derivative.

So why make the film? Don't get me wrong, I had a fun night out.
 
After seeing it 2 days ago, and having some time to think, I can completely see how someone could hate it. Myself, on the other hand, though it was pretty good right after. After 2 days though, I'm DYING to see it again. It just sticks with you and it's so unique I want to see it over and over again.
 
traveler said:
I see. Not to defend the movie, (as I haven't seen it) but I'm not really sure how well a deconstruction would work these days, given how much people have already done with that in regards to the superhero genre. Hancock, The Incredibles, darker superhero films like TDK- these have all, in one way or another, taken many of the ideas in Watchmen and run with them and, for a public unfamiliar with the work, I'm afraid Watchmen's once revolutionary concepts may end up being viewed as nothing more than derivative.


I read the book a couple of years ago and I felt the same way. I didn't find it derivative, because that was obviously untrue, but its impact was definitely diminished. I imagine I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I read it back in the 80's.
 
ten5ive9ine said:
Very briefly. Snyder totally missed the point of the book. Where the comic was a parody, the movie is legitimately awful.
They lost the squid to make the film be taken more seriously, but the rest of the film is an unintentional joke.

Who started this crazy shit about the book being a 'parody'? It's not a parody. It has more than a I few parodistic elements, which by the way the movie has too, it deals with the superhero concept in a deconstructive fashion, but it's not a parody. Please stop saying that.
 
ten5ive9ine said:
So why make the film? Don't get me wrong, I had a fun night out.

Perfectly valid question. Like I said, haven't seen the film yet so I have no idea whether it's as you say or not.
 
Zabojnik said:
Who started this crazy shit about the book being a 'parody'? It's not a parody. It has more than a I few parodistic elements, which by the way the movie has too, it deals with the superhero concept in a deconstructive fashion, but it's not a parody. Please stop saying that.

So you're saying that ten5ive9ine missed the point and than turn around and claims that Snyder missed the point?
 
Cohsae said:
Just saw At The Movies with Dave and Marg (movie review show here in Aus).
They were pretty positive, calling it a 'pleasant surprise'. Marg gave it 4 1/2 stars, Dave 4.
Called it the most mature superhero movie, said it knocked Iron Man and TDK out of the park (which I'm certain a few people around here will consider a pretty big call).
Maaaaaan I want to see this movie.

:lol TDK is so much better than Watchmen. Watchmen is a great movie. Fun and rewarding, but it doesn't hold a candle to TDK.

EDIT: ...and The Dark Knight was only my 5th favorite film of 08.
 
Saw a preview screening last night in Toronto. It was incredible and epic and full of Rorschach and The Comedian and Nite Owl and Dr. Manhattan and... and... and...

Going to go see it again on Friday in IMAX. Yes it's that good. If you read the book (which you should also do) it will feel even more epic.
 
It kinda sucks that this movie is getting so many mixed reviews. I was legitimately looking forward to it and I'll probably still see it at IMAX but I just have to remember to keep all these IT WAS HORRIBLE thoughts out of my head when watching it.
 
pelicansurf said:
It kinda sucks that this movie is getting so many mixed reviews. I was legitimately looking forward to it and I'll probably still see it at IMAX but I just have to remember to keep all these IT WAS HORRIBLE thoughts out of my head when watching it.

maybe you should just watch the movie and not worry about it
 
just left the Sydney IMAX midnight show. Movie is beyond dreadful. One of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Super boring and tedious.


* lots of people hated it. Everyone In my group thought it was punishing and boring as all duck
 
pelicansurf said:
It kinda sucks that this movie is getting so many mixed reviews. I was legitimately looking forward to it and I'll probably still see it at IMAX but I just have to remember to keep all these IT WAS HORRIBLE thoughts out of my head when watching it.

It may actually improve your liking of the movie. I went in with my hype considerably lowered as a result of those clips from a few weeks back, almost expecting a big disappointment, and I was pretty much blown away. I'm not saying it's a perfect movie or even a perfect Watchmen adaptation, but if you loved the comic and you come back from the theater saying you hated the movie, you 1) had TOTALLY unrealistic expectations or 2) are insane.
 
Just saw it last night and I'm glad now I don't have to pay for Imax tickets on Friday. To sum it up, Snyder has no balls. He goes all the way in someways and completely changes or ignores other parts of the graphic novel completely. And for no reason he switched lines between Nite Owl and Silk Spectre a few times.

And wow does he hate Ozy. Not only does he ignore his past and only give slight reference to it but
there is a folder called "boys" next to all of the important documents Nite Owl uncovers
.
 
now that I have acces to a keyboard as opposed to an iphone pad...



HOLYCRAP THAT MOVIE WAS BAD!!!!


It was

  • way too long
  • tedious
  • boring
  • unaffecting
  • contrived
  • reliant on cgi
  • reliant on slow mo shots
  • absolutely 0 tension/pacing/heart
  • acting terrible


when I said, its one of the worst movies I've had to sit through I mean it. When we exited the cinema, you could tell from the people milling around that they did not enjoy it. All my friends - and 2 of them watchmen fans, were like "that was dreadful - how did they fuck it up so bad".


I don't understand how the studio released it in this state. It needed more focused editing. Too much rubbishy slow mo pointless scenes. Horrible horrible horrible
 
And he changed, CHANGED Rorschach's "origin" story. I completely forgot about that. Yeah, he basically turned him into an everyday pyschopath, which he's not. Not even close. Couldn't believe it when I saw it. And Dr. Manhattan's origin was handled so poorly and felt so awkward, I wouldn't be surprised if people thought his first girlfriend wanted him to go into the chamber. He was also supposed to be living it, it wasn't supposed to be a flashback. There's so much more. I feel bad for the audience, they're getting a different story.

I told my friend the perfect way to sum it up is to call it "Zack Snyder Presents Marvel Comic's Watch-Men".

(I know it's not Marvel, that's the joke)
 
Deadly Monk said:
And wow does he hate Ozy. Not only does he ignore his past and only give slight reference to it but
there is a folder called "boys" next to all of the important documents Nite Owl uncovers
.

wat
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I'm not the only one who noticed it and I thought it was hilarious but seriously, did it need to be there? Snyder had it out for the character from the beginning, you can tell in his interviews.
 
Jax said:
I don't understand how the studio released it in this state. It needed more focused editing. Too much rubbishy slow mo pointless scenes. Horrible horrible horrible

"bububu the slow mo was kept to a minimum"

To be honest, despite my slowmo hate, I'm still watching it this week...maybe at a cheap-o theater though. :P
 
Thinking about what he did to Rorschach's origin is making me more upset. And the film even contradicts itself...

Sorry, Moore is still 100% right, Watchmen is just not film-able. Most people don't even understand why tales of the black freighter being filmed or animated makes no sense. Whole point being you can only do it in the comic book medium, it was a major part of the story. That goes right back to the idea that a film version of this is just simply not possible.
 
Deadly Monk said:
And wow does he hate Ozy. Not only does he ignore his past and only give slight reference to it but
there is a folder called "boys" next to all of the important documents Nite Owl uncovers
.

"Possibly homosexual. Must investigate further."
 
Jax said:
now that I have acces to a keyboard as opposed to an iphone pad...



HOLYCRAP THAT MOVIE WAS BAD!!!!


It was

  • way too long
  • tedious
  • boring
  • unaffecting
  • contrived
  • reliant on cgi
  • reliant on slow mo shots
  • absolutely 0 tension/pacing/heart
  • acting terrible


when I said, its one of the worst movies I've had to sit through I mean it. When we exited the cinema, you could tell from the people milling around that they did not enjoy it. All my friends - and 2 of them watchmen fans, were like "that was dreadful - how did they fuck it up so bad".


I don't understand how the studio released it in this state. It needed more focused editing. Too much rubbishy slow mo pointless scenes. Horrible horrible horrible

0 tension/pacing/heart ? rofl
 
Blader5489 said:
"Possibly homosexual. Must investigate further."

I already know that but putting a folder called "boys"? He couldn't just have some dialogue about, maybe a single line? See that's part of the problem. He seemed like he was going to be going to be close to the material then no, he completely drops the ball.
 
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