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Rottenwatch: WATCHMEN

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JayDubya said:
The Dark Knight doesn't have a specific story source to be faithful to. Though I suppose it does do a good job of keeping most the dramatis personae of Batman and presenting them in a fresh way.

That's the difference when adapting 70 year old characters that have been revamped and rebooted a bazillion times or adapting a 12 issue story from around the end of the Cold War that has the Cold War imminently going hot as a major plot point.

You really can't extricate these characters from their situation / storyline and still call it Watchmen.
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And they weren't, so they remain, Watchmen.

The core of the original GN, from what I understand, is still left in tact. Otherwise I don't think I'd have been impacted as much as I was.
 
kinggroin said:
And they weren't, so they remain, Watchmen.

The core of the original GN, from what I understand, is still left in tact. Otherwise I don't think I'd have been impacted as much as I was.
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That's what I've heard as well, and I guess I'll know as soon as the wife gets back and we head out to the theater. :D

I dunno, but I appreciate it when filmmakers adapting an original source skew as faithful to the source as possible; they do need to present the material with a modicum of art to it, they do need to bring something fresh to it. I guess I'll gauge it for myself.
 
How the Studios REALLY wanted to end the Watchmen

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JayDubya said:
That's what I've heard as well, and I guess I'll know as soon as the wife gets back and we head out to the theater. :D

I dunno, but I appreciate it when filmmakers adapting an original source skew as faithful to the source as possible; they do need to present the material with a modicum of art to it, they do need to bring something fresh to it. I guess I'll gauge it for myself.
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Usually I'd say, "Have fun". But reading the way this movie splits folks down the middle....

I think, "goodluck" is more appropriate :D
 
Decado said:
Yet Black Freighter is only 15 minutes long? That's an expensive documentary disc.
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It would be utter bullshit to put "Tales of the Black Freighter" on the DVD cover and then have it comprise less than 1/4 of the content on the disc.

I think the obvious answer is that Tales of the Black Freighter is much longer than 15 minutes. Maybe they will only put 15 minutes into the final cut of Watchmen, but they probably did much more animation than that. Maybe they adapted a couple of the stories that were outlined in the essay section of the comic book.

I guess it's also possible that the running time given by iTunes is wrong :)
 
I enjoyed it more than the Dark Knight.

This movie was extremely well crafted and engaging. And as lame as these hero's are supposed to appear each one displayed more character than Batman did in either movie.

Every scene with Dr. Manhatten was amazing. His presence in the movie was surreal.
 
border said:
Chapter 9, Page 20

Comedian: [to dinner party guest] "Nah, I'm clean guys. Just don't ask where I was when I heard about JFK."
Guest: "Ha ha ha! That's good! Dick'll love that."
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It seems almost sarcastic, like a dinner party cocktail kinda joke. I dunno if they should have taken that literally. The Comedian seems like a patriot...seems unlikely that he'd kill the president. I'm pretty sure that's like the most treacherous thing you can do as a citizen against your country :lol
 
Just got back. I really enjoyed it.

The pacing was slower than I expected, probably too slow for main-stream audiences. I could hear some people getting restless during some of the longer dialog scenes. I was pretty uninterested until the funeral and then things got better as the pacing picked up some.

The new ending was fine.

Naked Manhattan still got mild giggles/whispers even at the very end after having seen him that way many times. People need to grow up.

Somebody also laughed out loud when Manhattan screamed during the interview and we see him teleporting to Mars. I have no idea why.

I thought all of the characters were very well done. I can't think of a single one that didn't fit how I pictured them having read the graphic novel.
 
All I was thinking when I left the movie was that like a true physicist, "OOOhhhh I want to go learn the mysteries of the universe. Never mind that I have an incredibly hot girlfriend and I chose to do that over her."
 
ckohler said:
Just got back. I really enjoyed it.

The pacing was slower than I expected, probably too slow for main-stream audiences. I could hear some people getting restless during some of the longer dialog scenes. I was pretty uninterested until the funeral and then things got better as the pacing picked up some.

The new ending was fine.

Naked Manhattan still got mild giggles/whispers even at the very end after having seen him that way many times. People need to grow up.

Somebody also laughed out loud when Manhattan screamed during the interview and we see him teleporting to Mars. I have no idea why.

I thought all of the characters were very well done. I can't think of a single one that didn't fit how I pictured them having read the graphic novel.
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Well the line was kinda a misfire for me (also didn't like that we didn't see the audience outside). I think this is due more to the odd lipsyncing issues with the CG model though.

and yeah, people need to grow up when it comes to seeing peins
 
AgentOtaku said:
Well the line was kinda a misfire for me (also didn't like that we didn't see the audience outside). I think this is due more to the odd lipsyncing issues with the CG model though.

and yeah, people need to grow up when it comes to seeing peins
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I didn't see any lip synching issues...it was probably more of a case of it not being what you envisioned when you read the GN...
 
Zoramon089 said:
I didn't see any lip synching issues...it was probably more of a case of it not being what you envisioned when you read the GN...
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I should be more clear. They laughed when the shot of Mars appears and you see the light of Manhattan arriving. Not the actual scream.
 
ckohler said:
Somebody also laughed out loud when Manhattan screamed during the interview and we see him teleporting to Mars. I have no idea why.
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Me and my girlfriend started laughing when
Comedian was getting ready to rape Jupiter
, then we remembered people don't have the same love for the Comedian that we do and held it in. It's all about that douchebag smile.
 
Zoramon089 said:
I didn't see any lip synching issues...it was probably more of a case of it not being what you envisioned when you read the GN...
Click to expand...

It's weird as there are shots where the lipsyncing flawless ...like the up close shots of just his talking head. Then there the wider body shots were it's a bit off at times
 
Extollere said:
It seems almost sarcastic, like a dinner party cocktail kinda joke. I dunno if they should have taken that literally. The Comedian seems like a patriot...seems unlikely that he'd kill the president. I'm pretty sure that's like the most treacherous thing you can do as a citizen against your country :lol
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At the same time, though, the Comedian likes to feed into the 'joke', as he would put it; killing a guy like JFK, a person that seemed to be instilling hope and pride in his nation, would probably strike Comedian as a rather intriguing sort of practical joke. I think that it fits, personally. Plus, being that he was given good work under a Nixon administration, it may imply a plot by Nixon or something like that.
 
Some of you guys are being really forgiving to Malin Ackerman. Her performance was absolutely atrocious. Worst performance in a comic book movie since Liv Tyler in Hulk 1.1.
 
Flynn said:
Some of you guys are being really forgiving to Malin Ackerman. Her performance was absolutely atrocious. Worst performance in a comic book movie since Liv Tyler in Hulk 1.1.
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clearly a case of casting based more on looks than a quality performance. it's like when messageboards love to pick people for roles based on how similar they look. which is what made heath ledger that much more awesome because nobody could have seen that coming.

I thought she was charming when she had to be (the dinner scene was cute but filmed annoyingly through the glass outside the entire time for some reason + lame music) but anything that required real emotion she fell flat.
 
Flynn said:
Some of you guys are being really forgiving to Malin Ackerman. Her performance was absolutely atrocious. Worst performance in a comic book movie since Liv Tyler in Hulk 1.1.
Click to expand...

Her performance was weaker than the rest of the cast, certainly, but I don't think that it was any worse than, say, Katie Holmes in Batman Begins. It was a case of average acting put against a much stronger cast, making it seem worse than it actually was.
 
Flynn said:
Some of you guys are being really forgiving to Malin Ackerman. Her performance was absolutely atrocious. Worst performance in a comic book movie since Liv Tyler in Hulk 1.1.
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She's seriously not that bad, I think it's just that so many people are dumping so much hate on to her that it's affecting your opinion. I went in expecting her performance to shit up the whole movie and it really didn't. She was acting exactly the way I expected Silk Spectre II to act.

However, giving her the "nothing ever ends" line completely strips it of all its gravitas.

I think you went in with the "I HATE ZACK SNYDER TOO MUCH SLOW MOTION HES MICHAEL BAY'S TWIN WAAAH" mentality and you wanted to hate the movie, going in with such a closed mind that you didn't allow the movie to challenge your preconceptions.
 
Never read the comic but I very much enjoyed the movie.
I know some complained about the length but I wouldn't have mind if there were another 30 minutes of back story.

Reading the posts in this thread, especially by the die-hards, I think it'd be nice if there was an animated series that covers the entire story.
It wouldn't have to be more than a single season, just like many anime series.
 
Some guy was laughing when
the Comedian was beating the original Silk Spectre and trying to rape her.

Now that was fucked up...
 
Flynn said:
Some of you guys are being really forgiving to Malin Ackerman. Her performance was absolutely atrocious. Worst performance in a comic book movie since Liv Tyler in Hulk 1.1.
Click to expand...
yeah but her ass is amazing
 
Just saw it and I fucking loved it. Stays true to the novel with some changes for the movie going public. I can't wait to see how a director's cut on DVD looks with extra footage. Was hoping to see Rorshach's origin story recounted in film (Kitty Genovese) but I suppose there was no point to the story to describe how he got his mask. Man I'm still amazed how closely he followed the novel, really well done. Have to see this again.
 
sionyboy said:
Saw it this morning, thought I'd make a list of a few things I needed to get off my chest.

Rorschach - Glorified as the ultimate anti-hero, the character has lost the edge and the darkness he had in the comics. His backstory is told with a worrying amount of pace, considering that it takes an entire chapter to learn his story in the comics, here he gives it up with a minimum of fuss.

The Ending - As bad as I thought it would be. No emotional resonance when NY is destroyed given that the tertiary characters who added so much to the NY scenes are never introduced in the movie. The two Bernie's share the embrace from the comic, but given that neither character is given screen time why should anyone care? Nite-Owl's "VADERNOOOO.jpg" moment was not needed, as was his childish tantrum directed at Ozy.

Violence - Ummm...I've no real complaints here. Some say its too gratutitious, I'd say that where it was implied in the comic, here it is seen in all its glory. Some scenes do work better, for example I've never understood why Big Figure had his fat henchman's throat cut, the scene in the movie made a lot more sense (to me).

Manhattan - Well played, but his portrayal is all over the place. On the one hand we have Laurie telling us how he no longer cares about humanity, but he spends parts of the film working with Ozymandias on an infinite power source in a hope to end war....that level of detachment in the comic that is present in the comics is only used when it seems its necessary for the story.

Everybody needs a montage! - There are a few choice scenes in the movie that are set to some well known tracks from the 60s/70s/80s, but for me, they simply don't work. Whilst the idea of having The Comedian's funeral set to 'Sound of Silence' works on paper (and in a fanmade youtube vid), in the movie it just feels horribly overbearing, and more a case of Snyder doing what he thinks looks cool.

Nixon's nose - .... wtf? Did no-one say "Uhmm.. isn't that a little too big, even for Nixon?" I keep expecting Gepetto to pop up and say "Back in your box, Pinocchio".


However, I don't want to give the impression that I hate the movie. What I find annoying is a lot of the criticisms I've made will probably be rectified for the full-blown director's cut. So until I've seen that version, its hard to pass judgement. I'll have to accept the new ending I guess, its a shame that a giant alien monster is considered far too fantastic for audiences to accept than say....a blue man who can create multiple copies of himself and increase 700% in size.... oh wait... :/

At the end of the day, I think that barring someone putting up $200 million of their own money to make a Watchmen movie that is 1:1 with the comic, this is the best adaptation that Hollywood could have provided us with. If you read through David Hayter or Sam Hamm's scripts for the movie then you'll agree that this could have turned out a hell of a lot worse. So for Snyder to make a movie that is as close as this is to the source material, I think deserves some credit.

All I can say is, roll on the 210 minute cut, as I hope they throw some scenes back in, and extend others. The pacing in the middle of the film is all over the place.
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210 minute cut? Is this confirmed running time for a director's cut?
 
sionyboy said:
http://www.collider.com/entertainment/news/article.asp/aid/10993/tcid/1

There’s like scenes where our characters pass the newsstand and then we pick up action at the newsstand and it gets us into the Black Freighter….with shots that go into it and it comes to life and you follow the Black Freighter story and then come back into the movie. That version of the movie is the director’s cut with the Black Freighter intercut. That version sort of traces the structure of the Black Freighter that's integrated into the comic book… So that version is the 3 hour and 25 minute version.
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Thank you for the huge piece of lumber you've just given me. :D
 
Saw it the other day in Imax.

Few things
-How all the supers had that increased strength compared to normals, and how Veldt had it even stronger then them. It just felt off to what they were going for. Also, probably could've cut down on the fights scenes a bit more and added in some more backstory.
my favorite fight scene in a way, was simply Rosch tying the one guy up through the bars, forcing them to cut his arms off, followed by the next guy getting slammed into the toilet seat, and getting fired. It was quick, it was brutal, and so forth. Not like the Comedian and Veldt duking it out for 2 or 3 minutes in the beginning. I like that much better
-About acting... Comedian and Rorschach were perfect. Maybe not from the comic to movie translation, but just perfect in the movie. They both delivered what they needed and did it well. Dr. M. was good...I can't say I like him too much, felt kinda boring. But I don't think there was anything bad about him either. The other 3 were so-so.
-
The back story parts really needed to be spaced out more. It felt like volumes in a comic. Where it would pretty much focus on a character or two for the 30 minutes and put them in their own world, then sudden bring back everyone to the current story:lol It works well in books and comics but not movies. It didn't have very good transitions. Like how heavy the first half of the movie was with the Comedian while non existed for the back part. They had to have all their flashbacks to him right in the beginning when maybe something like Dr. M's and him with the pregnant women closer to the end would've came off better. Like saying how he could help, but he choose not too. It would have been great like during the Mars scene to both how he is human or when Veldt shows him the world's reaction to the events. Kinda how he could've still stopped it but didn't. All I'm trying to say is, they needed to space the character develops out a bit more.
-Finally...They definitely needed more on Ozy.
 
Just got back. I hadn't read the GN and I don't think I will. I enjoyed the movie I think, I didn't think it was going to be an "x-men" type movie although I think the majority of people in the theater assumed it was. There was even a nine year old kid sitting a few seats away with his parents, which was disgusting.

I do remember one thing I thought was interesting. When Rorschach was
breaking into the military complex
he was thinking to himself that some of the watchmen hadn't developed personality disorder. The funny thing about it is that they had all in fact been suffering from personality disorders for a long time, as most of them had been victim of trauma in some form or another.

I'll probably be getting in on blu-ray, especially if GAF tells me to. :)
 
Struct09 said:
One liberty that the movie took that I thought was pretty ballsy:
The Comedian killing JFK.
I'm surprised I haven't seen people riled up over that yet.

EDIT: Nevermind, explained below :P
Click to expand...


:lol I was shocked for a second. You clearly see like the bottom half of his head get blown away and bits of brain matter on the car. I couldn't believe it :lol
 
If your kid is about 14-15, you're some seriously cool parents to take them to see this.

If your kid is much younger than that, you're some seriously fucking stupid parents to take them to see this.




Edit: Man, they must really be trying to make Comedian sympathetic in this movie.
 
h_a_t said:
Reading the posts in this thread, especially by the die-hards, I think it'd be nice if there was an animated series that covers the entire story.
It wouldn't have to be more than a single season, just like many anime series.
Click to expand...

Well, there is this.
 
shintoki said:
Saw it the other day in Imax.

Few things
-How all the supers had that increased strength compared to normals, and how Veldt had it even stronger then them. It just felt off to what they were going for. Also, probably could've cut down on the fights scenes a bit more and added in some more backstory.
my favorite fight scene in a way, was simply Rosch tying the one guy up through the bars, forcing them to cut his arms off, followed by the next guy getting slammed into the toilet seat, and getting fired. It was quick, it was brutal, and so forth. Not like the Comedian and Veldt duking it out for 2 or 3 minutes in the beginning. I like that much better
-About acting... Comedian and Rorschach were perfect. Maybe not from the comic to movie translation, but just perfect in the movie. They both delivered what they needed and did it well. Dr. M. was good...I can't say I like him too much, felt kinda boring. But I don't think there was anything bad about him either. The other 3 were so-so.
-
The back story parts really needed to be spaced out more. It felt like volumes in a comic. Where it would pretty much focus on a character or two for the 30 minutes and put them in their own world, then sudden bring back everyone to the current story:lol It works well in books and comics but not movies. It didn't have very good transitions. Like how heavy the first half of the movie was with the Comedian while non existed for the back part. They had to have all their flashbacks to him right in the beginning when maybe something like Dr. M's and him with the pregnant women closer to the end would've came off better. Like saying how he could help, but he choose not too. It would have been great like during the Mars scene to both how he is human or when Veldt shows him the world's reaction to the events. Kinda how he could've still stopped it but didn't. All I'm trying to say is, they needed to space the character develops out a bit more.
-Finally...They definitely needed more on Ozy.
Click to expand...


Problem is the movie would have to be too long for all the backstory. When I originally read the novel I thought the only way they could do it was to make it a mini-series of 12 episodes, each one at least 60 minutes long. Of course that's totally impossible for a movie, but I really enjoyed the way they put it all together.

You hear me I want a 12 hour version of Watchmen! :lol :lol
 
I could take this movie apart if I felt like it. Not just because of how it compares to the GN but how it compares to other films in general.

I'll keep it light though. The Watchmen is one gorgeous two & a half hour long music video.
 
Solideliquid said:
I do remember one thing I thought was interesting. When Rorschach was
breaking into the military complex
he was thinking to himself that some of the watchmen hadn't developed personality disorder.
Click to expand...

I'll point it out to you before someone else does. The characters aren't "Watchmen" in the comic, which I think was a major no-no in the movie.
 
StoOgE said:
and WB now has a certified AAA director on it's hands in Snyder..
Click to expand...

Haven't seen Watchmen yet (Monday or Tuesday for me), but I've seen his other two films, and I must say:

wat

300 was terrible and DotD was better, but still mostly crappy. I assume by calling him "AAA", youre lumping him in with the Spielbergs, Scorseses, Malicks, etc. of the film world, which is a major disservice to those guys.
 
Im well aware of your 300 obsession from the other board, so I wont get into that. But even Natalie Portman couldnt have saved that movie.
 
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