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Rottenwatch: WATCHMEN

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What if it was Natalie reciting the lines... naked?

Also
I didn't mind the way Rorschach went out, as in I didn't mind him blowing up like that. I guess its because you want so much to feel for Rorschach and how he handles crime and also what he's been through in life.
 
fistfulofmetal said:
I watched the trailer for the Motion Comic and I don't really like the guy doing the lines.
Click to expand...

sounds just like an audiobook.

If you go in expecting voice acting I could see being disappointed, but its great for what they were going for.
 
BlueTsunami said:
Yeah, I can understand why people would be puzzled by that song choice... fortunately I knew about the Anti Nuke message behind it. With that knowledge, it was definitely fitting.
Click to expand...

Just because the lyrics were relevant to the setting, doesn't mean the song was relevant to the scene. I found it cringeworthy. Ham-fisted.
 
ten5ive9ine said:
Just because the lyrics were relevant to the setting, doesn't mean the song was relevant to the scene. I found it cringeworthy. Ham-fisted.
Click to expand...

I don't know, it didn't make me cringe at all... well, not as much as Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" during "that" scene. Wow... love the song but that was bad. They should have put some Tears for Fears in :lol just go all the way with it!
 
The
big change to the ending
was good in my opinion. It made more sense than the original story.

As for the rest of the film... It's hard to take a post-modern commentary on comic books and make it a film. To preserve the spirit, it would have to be a commentary on film if you change the format.
 
StoOgE said:
sounds just like an audiobook.

If you go in expecting voice acting I could see being disappointed, but its great for what they were going for.
Click to expand...

Is it that same guy/same production as the itunes version? He was a pretty good voice over guy, but when he did female characters it kinda broke down.
 
bistromathics said:
Yes, and that makes it even worse...

edit (clarification):
Ozymandias is another name for Ramses II. The smartest man in the world should be able to pick a password more secure than his own name!
I seriously don't know why that was even in the film - I sure don't remember it from the book, and it was such a minor detail. How did they find out
Veidt was in Antarctica in the book? I can't remember, but I sure hope it wasn't by Night Owl guessing his password :\
Click to expand...

well fuck me, i owe some apologies:
imsorryzacksnyder.jpg


I still maintain that is very stupid. Seeing it in movie-form just emphasizes its stupidity.
 
theBishop said:
The
big change to the ending
was good in my opinion. It made more sense than the original story.
Click to expand...

I agree with this so much.
Adrian creating that giant mutant squid to pretend there was an alien invasion is completely ridiculous. At least making it look like Dr. Manhattan's doing keeps the ending more coherent.
 
birdman said:
I agree with this so much.
Adrian creating that giant mutant squid to pretend there was an alien invasion is completely ridiculous. At least making it look like Dr. Manhattan's doing keeps the ending more coherent.
Click to expand...

Totally. I was gearing up for
a big Cloverfied moment
, and was pleasantly surprised instead.
 
birdman said:
I agree with this so much.
Adrian creating that giant mutant squid to pretend there was an alien invasion is completely ridiculous. At least making it look like Dr. Manhattan's doing keeps the ending more coherent.
Click to expand...

Well there was a whole lot of build-up to that throughout the novel, right? I can't remember how often the island-scenes were, but didn't it also tie into the meta-comic? I get why they changed it, but I still wasn't happy with it. Keep in mind this happened after I'd already made up my mind about the film, partially due to false memories about the book :\
 
bistromathics said:
Well there was a whole lot of build-up to that throughout the novel, right? I can't remember how often the island-scenes were, but didn't it also tie into the meta-comic? I get why they changed it, but I still wasn't happy with it. Keep in mind this happened after I'd already made up my mind about the film, partially due to false memories about the book :\
Click to expand...

It was set up as far back as the second issue.
 
Really enjoyed the movie. Surprised to see the mixed reviews here... was expecting it from the general public but didnt think it would be as divided here.

For the record, I dont know any of the original material so it was all new to me.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
It was set up as far back as the second issue.
Click to expand...

I don't think name-dropping Pyramid Transnational counts as build-up for
psychic alien squid bomb from another dimension
. That always seemed like an out-of-left-field plot device to me.

The new ending, while still a plot device, is more properly established as part of the film's story.
 
outsidah said:
Really enjoyed the movie. Surprised to see the mixed reviews here... was expecting it from the general public but didnt think it would be as divided here.

For the record, I dont know any of the original material so it was all new to me.
Click to expand...
I won't attack your enjoyment of the movie, but I will attack your "surprise" over mixed reviews.
 
Blader5489 said:
I don't think name-dropping Pyramid Transnational counts as build-up for
psychic alien squid bomb from another dimension
. That always seemed like an out-of-left-field plot device to me.

The new ending, while still a plot device, is more properly established as part of the film's story.
Click to expand...

It's what sends The Comedian to Moloch's apartment.
 
Blader5489 said:
I don't think name-dropping Pyramid Transnational counts as build-up for
psychic alien squid bomb from another dimension
. That always seemed like an out-of-left-field plot device to me.

The new ending, while still a plot device, is more properly established as part of the film's story.
Click to expand...

What? I was actually talking about the island where it was made. Weren't there a fair amount of scenes there? Wasn't it frequently talked about on the background news stuff...about missing artists or something?
 
bistromathics said:
What? I was actually talking about the island where it was made. Weren't there a fair amount of scenes there? Wasn't it frequently talked about on the background news stuff...about missing artists or something?
Click to expand...

Yup. Like I said. Second issue.
 
Saw it a second time last night. Feels the same as Sin City, kinda underwhelming after having read the graphic novel. That is why I love the new Batman movies: because it takes something familiar, adds new elements to it, and stays true to the source material or improves.

I liked Dr. Manhattan more the second time. I realized that Ozy is kind of a mediocre character in both. Rorshach still is awesome to me. Comedian I liked more in the graphic novel than in the movie, but the actor was good and the scene where
he tells Dr. Mahattan that he is losing touch with people seemed to have more weight in the movie version. "God help us all."
 
bistromathics said:
What? I was actually talking about the island where it was made. Weren't there a fair amount of scenes there? Wasn't it frequently talked about on the background news stuff...about missing artists or something?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but none of that implies
alien squid.
The island, the missing artists...you could come up with any plot device based on that information.
 
Blader5489 said:
Yeah, but none of that implies
alien squid.
The island, the missing artists...you could come up with any plot device based on that information.
Click to expand...

How does
Veidt connect them to his Manhattan plan
?
 
Shag_187: Thanks for the info. I don't think the motion comic is available in the NZ iTunes store. How much is it in the US store?

I think I might go see Watchmen again at some point. I want to see it while new people are seeing it an gauging reactions. I want to read the comic too, but it's like queued up at the library.
 
the point of the squid was to fill the heads of sensitive people with awful visions of alien threats rather than human threats

Jon is superhuman, but he still has the human aspect, and leaves the possibility of humans distrusting other humans

BenjaminBirdie said:
Then, what sets off the Comedian to go see Moloch?
Click to expand...
he only discovers Ozy's plan on the island which mentions the resulting deaths of millions
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Then, what sets off the Comedian to go see Moloch?
Click to expand...

The Comedian is hired by the government to do (among other things) keep tabs on the other heroes, watch what they're doing, etc. While spying on Veidt, he discovers what Veidt's planning to do, then heads off to Moloch's house to make his drunken tearful confession.
 
bistromathics said:
well fuck me, i owe some apologies:
imsorryzacksnyder.jpg


I still maintain that is very stupid. Seeing it in movie-form just emphasizes its stupidity.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I'd say the impact of the stupidness is undercut, a bit, by Rorshach's meditations above.
 
Blader5489 said:
The Comedian is hired by the government to do (among other things) keep tabs on the other heroes, watch what they're doing, etc. While spying on Veidt, he discovers what Veidt's planning to do, then heads off to Moloch's house to make his drunken tearful confession.
Click to expand...

That's pretty good, actually.
 
bistromathics said:
well fuck me, i owe some apologies:
http://standard-error.com/images/imsorryzacksnyder.jpg[img]

I still maintain that is very stupid. Seeing it in movie-form just emphasizes its stupidity.[/QUOTE]

I think you underestimate the public's viewing of computer passwords in the mid 80's
Click to expand...
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
That's pretty good, actually.
Click to expand...

I thought so too. It all works better to me.
Although I would've preferred them keeping in Adrian and Dr. Manhattan's talk at the end. Ozymandias asking if he did the right thing just really brings the point of the graphic novel home.
 
BlueTsunami said:
What if it was Natalie reciting the lines... naked?

Also
I didn't mind the way Rorschach went out, as in I didn't mind him blowing up like that. I guess its because you want so much to feel for Rorschach and how he handles crime and also what he's been through in life.
Click to expand...

It's fine that you rooted for him, but you do realize he was completely wrong, and in the end, a patsy? There's no room in society for Rorschach's brand of fascism.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Then, what sets off the Comedian to go see Moloch?
Click to expand...

What the guy above said is true, but to add in to that, the movie sets up Ozy's plan in an entirely different way as well. Veidt puts up the front of a man looking to create an alternative energy source to replace oil and fossil fuels, which he believes only help to fuel the flame of world division. He works with Dr. Manhattan on this alternative energy source. The Comedian is hired to spy on Veidt and keep tabs on the alternative energy project, but he discovers that Ozy's alternative energy generator is actually part of the plot to create a machine capable of replicating Dr. Manhattan's energy, which he might then use in his plot. As in the comic, when Blake realizes the evil of Veidt's plan, while at the same time acknowledging the weight of the philosophical questions that it raises, goes to Moloch's, and cries.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan does a really amazing job in this movie, the more that I think about it. Honestly, he brings a certain humanity to the Comedian that is implied but never quite created in the graphic novel. As bad of a person as Blake is, you can't help but understand why he is the way that he is. Morgan is tied with Crudup in terms of acting, for me, with only Haley doing a better job. They're all really awesome, though.
 
bistromathics said:
Well there was a whole lot of build-up to that throughout the novel, right? I can't remember how often the island-scenes were, but didn't it also tie into the meta-comic? I get why they changed it, but I still wasn't happy with it. Keep in mind this happened after I'd already made up my mind about the film, partially due to false memories about the book :\
Click to expand...

Oh yeah it definitely built up, but seeing as how you can't put the pieces together until Adrian finally unmasks it you just sit there for a second and say "Oh....well that seems incredibly unnecessary and confusing Alan Moore."
 
BlueTsunami said:
I don't know, it didn't make me cringe at all... well, not as much as Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" during "that" scene. Wow... love the song but that was bad. They should have put some Tears for Fears in :lol just go all the way with it!
Click to expand...

That's the one scene where I regretted Night Owl not being more out of shape. It was funny enough as it was, but should have been better.

I still maintain that is very stupid. Seeing it in movie-form just emphasizes its stupidity.
Click to expand...

The whole "significant word used as a password" is in EVERYTHING. It's a commonly accepted form of stupidity.
 
Watched this movie twice already. Was really surprised by the emotional intensity that Jackie Earle Haley brought during the end. He out acted everybody in the movie, and he was behind the mask most of the time.
 
Valkyr Junkie said:
I think you underestimate the public's viewing of computer passwords in the mid 80's
Click to expand...


Granted, but the "Oh, you almost had it. Would you like to add something?" is a bit much.
 
Raguel said:
Watched this movie twice already. Was really surprised by the emotional intensity that Jackie Earle Haley brought during the end. He out acted everybody in the movie, and he was behind the mask most of the time.
Click to expand...
for real. Jackie Earle Haley was Clint Eastwood without that mask on. Fucking seriously. His career is going places and if Hollywood ever decided to do another Dirty Harry, Haley is fucking him.
 
bistromathics said:
well fuck me, i owe some apologies:
imsorryzacksnyder.jpg


I still maintain that is very stupid. Seeing it in movie-form just emphasizes its stupidity.
Click to expand...

The thing is, though, that Ozy obviously wanted them to discover his plot and come meet him. As much as he may dislike costumed heroism, he does still consider these people friends; it's like how Laurie ends up going to Dan's house after she leaves Jon. The only people that they ever knew and formed friendships with were their fellow costumed adventurers, and there's a sort of fraternal bond that they all feel for one another, even if they clash in a number of ways.

Also, Ozy is a total narcissist, so it's likely that he wanted to have people come learn about his plot. For such a one as him, what good would it be for him to be Earth's savior if he couldn't show somebody the brilliance of his plan? This is a case where the 'easy password' was intentional; I mean, the computer actually tells them that they're close to guessing the password and need to add a few more characters. If that's not a blatant move by Ozy, he's not nearly as smart as the comic would lead us to believe, but I think that he is.
 
Valkyr Junkie said:
I think you underestimate the public's viewing of computer passwords in the mid 80's
Click to expand...

He raises a point. I didn't really use passwords until I got to college in '93. I had a pin earlier, but not much earlier.
 
EDIT: alright, in addition to completely retracting my earlier gripe, i will also concede that passwords in the 80s were 'meh', and will also buy that Adrian wanted ppl to see it. The following is my real problem with the movie
__________________

birdman said:
Although I would've preferred them keeping in Adrian and Dr. Manhattan's talk
at the end. Ozymandias asking if he did the right thing just really
brings the point of the graphic novel home.
Click to expand...

See even if you take away the false-nitpick I was ranting about earlier, that was really just the tipping point for me. The biggest problem is that, while bringing certain aspects of the book in fairly well, a lot of them were tweaked in all the wrong ways. The one you mention is a very good example.

I had no problem with
dan and lorie ninja-fighting the prisoners when they went to bust out rorschach
. From a movie standpoint, it was as good a place as any to stick in an action sequence. But but when rorschach went in and
yelled at the doctor about his mask[/spoiler], it not only seemed out of character, it also diminished the character of the
doctor, who's character was only a minor reference in the film, but if that's the case then why even bother? IRL (lol), rorschach was not in-costume when he was rescued.
He was with Dan and Lorie for the first time as Walter Kovacs.

Also, I was in the bathroom during the Rorschach flashback/backstory scene, but my sister just told me how that went down. I guarantee that would have been the first thing i bitched about if i'd known, lol. Why would they replace such an important scene
(with the chain to the wall, leave a saw blade, and set the place on fire)
with an axe to the face?? It's not like one required any further explanation than the other. The difference is one shows how raw and hard rorschach is when it comes to justice and is psychologically disturbing. The other one just shows him as straight-up brutal and is graphically disturbing.

There were too many things like this; I did not expect (nor want) the film to portray all the events from the book. I did expect it to at least properly convey the significance of the elements they did decide to use.
Click to expand...
 
Raguel said:
Watched this movie twice already. Was really surprised by the emotional intensity that Jackie Earle Haley brought during the end. He out acted everybody in the movie, and he was behind the mask most of the time.
Click to expand...

Yes. that part was phenomenal actually.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
So, GAF, as someone with no intention nor inclination whatsoever to ever read the comic... is Watchmen worth seeing?
Click to expand...
If you want to have some fun, it's a lot of movie for a regular ticket price
 
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