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[Busty]

A $50 million+ opening weekend, while not guaranteed, really is not that hard to achieve if the film in question has a massive and effective marketing campaign (check) and opens on 3000+ screens (check).

Speed Racer says hello.

The second and third weekends are far better indicators of how audiences are actually receiving a film, rather than just responding to hype. And on that, I doubt it'll fare that well.

The general rule of thumb for most films is that the final gross is three times a film's opening weekend number. I imagine that Watchmen will be good for $150m once everything is said and done.

It's the International markets that I think are going to really do Watchmen the most favours. Though superhero films don't really do that well abroad Int. audiences are generally more 'open' to more mature films.

 

[Prime crotch]

I dunno anything about the GN, I do enjoy the world they created though. I wish to read it now after seeing the movie.

The only thing I don't understand, plan seems a bit flawed, maybe I don't really 'get it'.

Spoiler

So he kills millions of people, millions, to make the world be happy and work together and not launch nukes.... that seems a terribly hefty price to pay for something that is pretty much bound to last couple of months tops. :lol

The smartest man in the world couldn't figure that? He should know humans are the worst, be back fighting in no time, some power hungry, money wanting greedy people will want something and invade someone else soon enough and it all starts over again.

Then what? Kill millions more again after they just rebuilt everything? :/

Now it was a long movie and a lot to take in, so like I said, am I just not getting it?

The comic executed it better, there's a very vague feeling that this

Spoiler

peace

will not hold up, and while at it one of my favorite parts, that was not on the movie, was the justaposition of his reasoning along with the NY citizens

Spoiler

final moments.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I have to agree also, they did a terrible job of making it feel like the 80s, didn't feel like that at all. I know its 'alternate' 80s, but still I pretty much never remembered it was the 80s the whole time watching, even after they would say what the date is.

Like I said though, really did love the world they created, I knew nothing about the series AT ALL and immediately got into it. It made me think of The Incredible but with some R rated stuff. :lol That is very cool.

The Incredibles did borrow quite a lot from Watchmen, one of the reasons I wasn't as wowwed by it when it came out.

 

[levious]

Nah, you got it, but when you consider that the world more or less would have ended or been massively transformed by the actions that were about to take place, you have to do something if you're in Ozy's place.

conflict was brewing, but was the earth really at stake? At stake enough to do what he did? I've never bought that, nor did I ever buy Manhattan's sudden agreement (especially since he also seemed convinced that it wouldn't necessarily last). Ozy was just the typical maniacal villain trying to take over/control the world. He just succeeded.

 

[fallengorn]

Well,

Spoiler

Ozy still has the machine to use if things get out of hand and he needs to put people back in their place. Though someone's bound to discover his anarctic retreat someday.

According to the movie,

Spoiler

doesn't the general populous already know he has a facility in Antarctica? Wasn't it mentioned on tv or something?

 

[Conrad Link]

I dunno aye, I just feel together they could have come up with a better scare plan than that.

Killed all the scientist guys too, could have made more power things and swapped them for nukes to the Russians or something? Or was the power thing not really a power source and just a weapon?

And did he kill his cat thing? Why? Decoy? Sad! ;(

I felt I should know more about this cat thing, is there more to it in the novel or is it 'just his pet' thing.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

According to the movie,

Spoiler

doesn't the general populous already know he has a facility in Antarctica? Wasn't it mentioned on tv or something?

Also, don't the mention

Spoiler

that the world believes that Dr. Manhattan is still watching and may repeat the "attacks" if they don't fall into line

 

[Father_Brain]

Speed Racer says hello.

Speed Racer, frankly, doesn't say shit about my point; did you miss the word "effective?" Audiences liked what they saw in the trailers et al. for Watchmen, so a decent number went to see it. They did not like what they saw in the trailers et al. for Speed Racer, so they did not show up to see it. Not complicated.

 

[Dabanton]

conflict was brewing, but was the earth really at stake? At stake enough to do what he did? I've never bought that, nor did I ever buy Manhattan's sudden agreement (especially since he also seemed convinced that it wouldn't necessarily last). Ozy was just the typical maniacal villain trying to take over/control the world. He just succeeded.

To call Ozy a villain isn't correct in the standard sense of comic books.

 

[Caspel]

Some people don't like seeing male ass thrusting.

Some people don't like the Hallelujah song playing during it.

I thought it was fine, but would potentially change the music a bit. The music made it more comical than I think it should have been, but perhaps that scene was always meant to be a bit light hearted.

...I mean a guy is no longer impotent because he gets to wear his superhero outfit. Pretty ridiculous :lol

My problem with the sex scene was that it was over-the-top and that too many liberties were taken for the scene by Snyder. Plus, they ruined Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah by using it within the scene to make you laugh and giggle as it was merely a distraction.

 

[JayDubya]

To call Ozy a villain isn't correct in the standard sense of comic books.

Disagree, even if I understand that his actions bring up a valid and interesting philosophical question.

I would say that he is an excellent and complex villain. But a villain just the same.

 

[Dabanton]

My problem with the sex scene was that it was over-the-top and that too many liberties were taken for the scene by Snyder. Plus, they ruined Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah by using it within the scene to make you laugh and giggle as it was merely a distraction.

Was it really that ott? I thought it was rather restrained.

 

[Caspel]

Disagree, even if I understand that his actions bring up a valid and interesting philosophical question.

I would say that he is an excellent and complex villain. But a villain just the same.

I, for one, didn't like Ozy's Antarctic base in the film. It looks much more brilliant and extravagant in the Graphic Novel.

 

[Caspel]

Was it really that ott? I thought it was rather restrained.

Well in comparison to the subtle scene in the book, the butt thrusting, her on top riding him, etc. were just too much when you look at the book and see that the scene was more about them having sex after they got into costume since that turned on Nite Owl.

 

[op_ivy]

Was it really that ott? I thought it was rather restrained.

yes it was ott. my fiance and i described it as a hardcore porno scene edited down to make a cinemax cut. and thats the thing, the entire scene was like a bad, very bad, love scene in any one of those terrible budget skin flix

 

[diffusionx]

You forget that every action movie stopped by a strip bar. At least once.

Hell, even if the picture was dead serious at least one scene would start with the protagonist in bed, post shag.

No wonder cock trips these kids up. The only place they see skin is in porn.

FWIW I saw Road House recently and there is pretty much no way that movie would come out in its state today. When Road House is too fucking edgy for the times you know you've lost your way. That movie should've become a template.

 

[JayDubya]

Another thing - I don't recall any Shelley being actually posted anywhere by Adrian.

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

But he had it posted pretty prominently.

Indeed, I actually thought that was the point of the reference. I'm reminded of the statue of Lenin found in Antarctica last year. I could be wrong, though, and I'm checking ASAP. If anyone's at home with the GN handy, they could find out.

 

[levious]

To call Ozy a villain isn't correct in the standard sense of comic books.

the only thing not standard about his status as a villain is that he won.

 

[op_ivy]

Another thing - I don't recall any Shelley being actually posted anywhere by Adrian.



But he had it posted pretty prominently.

Indeed, I actually thought that was the point of the reference. I'm reminded of the statue of Lenin found in Antarctica last year. I could be wrong, though, and I'm checking ASAP. If anyone's at home with the GN handy, they could find out.

i'm.... confused by what you are asking for.

the quote was in the movie, engraved on some sort of plaque

 

[JayDubya]

i'm.... confused by what you are asking for.

the quote was in the movie, engraved on some sort of plaque

Let me clarify then. Yes, it was.

But the poem is about mortal hubris and how even the mighty and arrogant do not leave their mark forever - that's one of the whole questions of the novel, did Ozzy do the right thing, will it last anyway, etc.

So I don't recall the poem being featured by the character himself; I thought that was part of the irony, that the smartest man in the world names himself Ozymandias and seeks to make something everlasting.

 

[op_ivy]

Let me clarify then. Yes, it was.

But the poem is about mortal hubris and how even the mighty and arrogant do not leave their mark forever - that's one of the whole questions of the novel, did Ozzy do the right thing, will it last anyway, etc.

So I don't recall the poem being featured by the character himself; I thought that was part of the irony, that the smartest man in the world names himself Ozymandias and seeks to make something everlasting.

yeah, iirc it was in a side bar or supplemental material part of the GN, not anywhere in ozy's palace

 

[vatstep]

Also, don't the mention

Spoiler

that the world believes that Dr. Manhattan is still watching and may repeat the "attacks" if they don't fall into line

I don't recall that being said (I might have missed it), but this was still the impression that I got from the whole "Dr. Manhattan is responsible" thing. It's a tidier ending, and fit for a movie. The comic definitely leaves it more wide-open — from what I can recall, Dr. Manhattan's last words to Ozymandias seem to catch him off guard, implying that his solution was only temporary.

 

[birdman]

So I don't recall the poem being featured by the character himself; I thought that was part of the irony, that the smartest man in the world names himself Ozymandias and seeks to make something everlasting.

It was the final quote in the last/second to last chapter wasn't it?

 

[Solo]

Checking this out today finally

 

[birdman]

I just looked it up, and it was the ending quote for chapter XI.

 

[John Harker]

According to the movie,

Spoiler

doesn't the general populous already know he has a facility in Antarctica? Wasn't it mentioned on tv or something?

You're all forgetting the last 5 minutes of the movie,

Spoiler

Rorsharch wrote in his journal that Ozy was behind everything and he had a facility up in the arctic. He exposed him as the parent company behind Pyramid, who was responsible for more than just the murder of the comedian. He dropped his journal off at a newspaper that was hungry for some destructive news. You better believe they are going to publish that entire journal, and investigate Ozy and that location. That's the ultimate point: it was all for nothing, the truth will get out, this peace will shatter, and with Dr. Manhattan gone to other worlds, the Watchmen more or less disbanded, the world will devour itself. The whole movie was depressing

 

[JayDubya]

It was the final quote in the last/second to last chapter wasn't it?

Sounds right. Don't have the GN with me, though.

 

[op_ivy]

It was the final quote in the last/second to last chapter wasn't it?

yeah, as the city of Manhattan is engulfed in white from the coming

Spoiler

squid inavsion!

and yeah, ozy is obviously unsure of himself in the GN ending and is asking for Jon's support in what he did.

"it all worked out in the end, didn't it?"

"the end? nothing ends adrain."

and before adrain can clarify what he means Jon departs for another world.

 

[fallengorn]

You're all forgetting the last 5 minutes of the movie,

Spoiler

Rorsharch wrote in his journal that Ozy was behind everything and he had a facility up in the arctic. He exposed him as the parent company behind Pyramid, who was responsible for more than just the murder of the comedian. He dropped his journal off at a newspaper that was hungry for some destructive news. You better believe they are going to publish that entire journal, and investigate Ozy and that location. That's the ultimate point: it was all for nothing, the truth will get out, this peace will shatter, and with Dr. Manhattan gone to other worlds, the Watchmen more or less disbanded, the world will devour itself. The whole movie was depressing

Spoiler

Well, due to human nature, everlasting peace will never happen.

And, maybe it's just me, but The New Frontiersman was never elaborated upon in the movie, so it felt like they wouldn't necessarily take Rorschach's journal seriously.

yeah, as the city of Manhattan is engulfed in white from the coming

Spoiler

squid inavsion!

and yeah, ozy is obviously unsure of himself in the GN ending and is asking for Jon's support in what he did.

"it all worked out in the end, didn't it?"

"the end? nothing ends adrain."

and before adrain can clarify what he means Jon departs for another world.

I really missed that. The movie really shortchanges Adrian and Laurie out of those character moments as compared to the others.

 

[JayDubya]

Spoiler

Well, due to human nature, everlasting peace will never happen.

And, maybe it's just me, but The New Frontiersman was never elaborated upon in the movie, so it felt like they wouldn't necessarily take Rorschach's journal seriously.

Almost all the side characters were cut, but as I recall, as soon as he found out Rorschach was a reader, the editor of TNF suddenly thought masked heroes were awesome.

So yeah, they're running the story.

Spoiler

It would actually be even easier to pin things on Adrian in the film because it was known by several people that he was working with Manhattan to make that cold fusion reactor.

 

[Busty]

Speed Racer, frankly, doesn't say shit about my point; did you miss the word "effective?" Audiences liked what they saw in the trailers et al. for Watchmen, so a decent number went to see it. They did not like what they saw in the trailers et al. for Speed Racer, so they did not show up to see it. Not complicated.

It's effective in retrospect. Unless you were privy to the 'tracking numbers'.

But of course you weren't. You don't even know what cinema audience tracking numbers are.

I should know better than to try and argue with all these 'Armchair studio execs' that populate the Internet.

But no, here I am again.

*sigh*

 

[Monroeski]

You're all forgetting the last 5 minutes of the movie,

Spoiler

Rorsharch wrote in his journal that Ozy was behind everything and he had a facility up in the arctic. He exposed him as the parent company behind Pyramid, who was responsible for more than just the murder of the comedian. He dropped his journal off at a newspaper that was hungry for some destructive news. You better believe they are going to publish that entire journal, and investigate Ozy and that location. That's the ultimate point: it was all for nothing, the truth will get out, this peace will shatter, and with Dr. Manhattan gone to other worlds, the Watchmen more or less disbanded, the world will devour itself. The whole movie was depressing

Well, the original question that Conrad Link posted,

Spoiler

whether or not Ozy realized human nature would go right back to war after a few months and thus whether or not his plan was truly valid, is somewhat independent of the journal. He did not know about the journal, and it COULD totally undo his plan, but otherwise since he still had the machine he could jump in and use it whenever the world powers got out of line to make them think Manhattan still had his eye on them.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Spoiler

And, maybe it's just me, but The New Frontiersman was never elaborated upon in the movie, so it felt like they wouldn't necessarily take Rorschach's journal seriously.

Tit for tat, in the comic TNF was a trash rag.

Let me clarify then. Yes, it was.

But the poem is about mortal hubris and how even the mighty and arrogant do not leave their mark forever - that's one of the whole questions of the novel, did Ozzy do the right thing, will it last anyway, etc.

So I don't recall the poem being featured by the character himself; I thought that was part of the irony, that the smartest man in the world names himself Ozymandias and seeks to make something everlasting.

There are so many layers of irony with what Ozy tries to do and what he succeeds in doing, that poem, and the actual Ramesses that I'm too lazy list em. He named himself Ozy when he became a superhero, not when he came up with a plan to end man's conflict with itself.

I do like that the movie made Ozy's self-interests as far as growing Veidt Industries or w/e it was called a lot more obvious.

 

[Father_Brain]

It's effective in retrospect. Unless you were privy to the 'tracking numbers'.

But of course you weren't. You don't even know what cinema audience tracking numbers are.

I should know better than to try and argue with all these 'Armchair studio execs' that populate the Internet.

But no, here I am again.

*sigh*

The fact is, this is the era of frontloading. A film's opening weekend performance has far, far more to do with the degree to which the audience is hyped for it than what they actually think of the film's quality.

And Speed Racer was tracking very badly before release, though it ended up doing even worse than most analysts predicted.

 

[charsace]

I've always thought Rors and Owl are both half of batman. Am I the only person that thinks this here?

 

[fallengorn]

Tit for tat, in the comic TNF was a trash rag.

That's true.

I've always thought Rors and Owl are both half of batman. Am I the only person that thinks this here?

Nope.

Just saw this on the internets:

 

[levious]

that's like that old Dexter's Laboratory short with Major Glory's Justice Fruit Pies and the Evil Math Magician... except this one has rape.

 

[Keylime]

That's true.

Nope.

Just saw this on the internets:
http://i43.tinypic.com/4rcje0.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
:lol :lol :lol

I didn't even know Hostess made anything but chocolate stuff...

 

[bananabread]

Probably the best adaption that could have been made out of such dense source material. I agree with the above poster that said he didn't care about any of the characters other than Rorsharch and that global nuclear war never felt like a threat. Credit to them for trying so hard though and I hope that the director's cut fills in some of the gaps.

I'm a big fan of the book, and I hope this movie inspires more people to read it.

The 3 friends I was with hated it for the above reasons.

 

[Tobor]

:lol :lol :lol

I didn't even know Hostess made anything but chocolate stuff...

You just dated yourself, kid.

 

[JCX]

that's like that old Dexter's Laboratory short with Major Glory's Justice Fruit Pies and the Evil Math Magician... except this one has rape.

:lol That is exactly what I thought of wen reading that.

 

[Tobor]

that's like that old Dexter's Laboratory short with Major Glory's Justice Fruit Pies and the Evil Math Magician... except this one has rape.

For the kids who were too young to appreciate the awesomeness:

http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Spoiler

I've always been of the belief that Rorschach's journal would be meaningless. He's a sociopath that is hated by the public, and he sent his journal to a newspaper that has just about zero credibility by almost anybody's standards. Even if The New Frontiersman were to to publish a story with that claim, I don't think it would be received as anything other than conspiracy nonsense.

 

[Prime crotch]

I just noticed something, aside from The Comedian and a criminal boss no one else smokes on the movie, on a movie set on the 80's, I bet this is some bullshit exec's decision.

 

[bggrthnjsus]

Spoiler

I've always been of the belief that Rorschach's journal would be meaningless. He's a sociopath that is hated by the public, and he sent his journal to a newspaper that has just about zero credibility by almost anybody's standards. Even if The New Frontiersman were to to publish a story with that claim, I don't think it would be received as anything other than conspiracy nonsense.

i always thought of that as a failure too (at least in a sense of the retribution rorschach is so adamant about), but in a way it's also a small success for rorschach just to tell anybody, and in the comic the magazine seems like one of the few things he actually cares about

 

[Jon]

I just noticed something, aside from The Comedian and a criminal boss no one else smokes on the movie, on a movie set on the 80's, I bet this is some bullshit exec's decision.

I don't really remember too many other people smoking in the novel?

 

[itsinmyveins]

I just noticed something, aside from The Comedian and a criminal boss no one else smokes on the movie, on a movie set on the 80's, I bet this is some bullshit exec's decision.

I heard an interview with Snyder where he said he had to argue bit for The Comedian to have his cigar.

EDIT: Don't know how much though, he just mentioned that he had said that "the comedian's gotta have his cigar" or something like that.

 

[mrkgoo]

Well,

Spoiler

Ozy still has the machine to use if things get out of hand and he needs to put people back in their place. Though someone's bound to discover his anarctic retreat someday.

Never bought this.

Spoiler

I thought the only way his plan even remotely worked was because he had already done it. The only reason Night Owl, SSII, and the Doc let him go through with it was that it was already done. It was clear that they would've tried to stop him from carrying it out, so why would they ever let him carry it out a second time?

 

[mrkgoo]

Spoiler

I've always been of the belief that Rorschach's journal would be meaningless. He's a sociopath that is hated by the public, and he sent his journal to a newspaper that has just about zero credibility by almost anybody's standards. Even if The New Frontiersman were to to publish a story with that claim, I don't think it would be received as anything other than conspiracy nonsense.

Spoiler

Why I didn't think meaningless, I agree that the ending is supposed to be vague - it wants to make you think, not explicitly state what will happen. Which brings me to another point - I hate how, when movies end with a vague "It might continue!" type ending (particularly horror movies), that people assumes it means a sequel come out - too many times people say, "Oh, it's obvious they are setting up for a sequel with the open ending and loose ends". No. They're not. It's just storytelling device to make the story feel like part of something more epic

 

[Prime crotch]

I don't really remember too many other people smoking in the novel?

The whole reason Laurie turned the flamethrower on was because she wanted a smoke, she also had this awesome pipe.

I heard an interview with Snyder where he said he had to argue bit for The Comedian to have his cigar.

EDIT: Don't know how much though, he just mentioned that he had said that "the comedian's gotta have his cigar" or something like that.

I can see it already, "this man is a murder, rapist and all around prick, but he can't be seen smoking?!"