Twilight Princess
Member
If you like ff12, you have got to play xenoblade.
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RTTP Final Fantasy XII Thread of best FF ever?!
- Thread starter TacticalFox88
- Start date
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
The only thing I like about FFXII is the gambit system and it's downright stupid that there aren't a plethora of RPGs out there now that have adopted it (minus the idiotic need the purchase gambits).
Easily my favorite, despite putting hundreds of hours into six back when I was an angry 14 year old. Like someone else mentioned, this game broke JRPGs for me too. Just coudn't go back to the same old formula after it. It showed that gameplay in a jrpg can actually be fun. I'd sell my soul for a HD/PS3 port.
Seen the FFX/VII lovers give it a lot of flack over the years. But I'm half convinced it is because the characters don't spew melodrama out their ass every other scene. It was nice and unexpected to see characters in a FF game set about solving a large scale problem without going into a full blown, fuck me emotional melt down. Although towards the end it felt like SE was trying to force the usual weird shit into what had been a pretty cool political plotline.
Seen the FFX/VII lovers give it a lot of flack over the years. But I'm half convinced it is because the characters don't spew melodrama out their ass every other scene. It was nice and unexpected to see characters in a FF game set about solving a large scale problem without going into a full blown, fuck me emotional melt down. Although towards the end it felt like SE was trying to force the usual weird shit into what had been a pretty cool political plotline.
Fimbulvetr
Member
ronito said:
Nope. Once the party gets together they stay together, the only time a character leaves is during a section with absolutely no combat.
Riposte
Member
I didn't think it would happen, but I am now in the camp that favors FFXIII over FFXII, almost solely because of the battle system(I think they both have their good qualities, aside from that). But I don't think this is the thread for that, despite previous discussion.
One of the brilliant things about FFXII that dawned on me awhile ago was that the Quickening system is like an evolved form of the QTE, to the point of being fun(which is to say: to the point of being almost unrecognizable). It adds a lot of complexity with shuffling, multiple choice, and a "combo" system working in the background(at the cost of being contextual, but w/e). Still, I think this game was in desperate need of a weapon skill / skillchain system exactly like Final Fantasy XI and would have gladly traded away Quickening for it.
I also don't agree with the Vaan hate. Way overblown.
One of the brilliant things about FFXII that dawned on me awhile ago was that the Quickening system is like an evolved form of the QTE, to the point of being fun(which is to say: to the point of being almost unrecognizable). It adds a lot of complexity with shuffling, multiple choice, and a "combo" system working in the background(at the cost of being contextual, but w/e). Still, I think this game was in desperate need of a weapon skill / skillchain system exactly like Final Fantasy XI and would have gladly traded away Quickening for it.
I also don't agree with the Vaan hate. Way overblown.
So I'm plodding along slowly (just escaped the dreadnought) and I'm really struck by just how uneven the characters writing is. Balthier is in the running for one of the best written/spoken characters I've seen in a while (though as I remember he said he was
That seemed a little unnecessary but I quit out of boredom shortly thereafter) and Basch is rather good too. But Penelo and Vaan just have no real place amongst them. Strange that they should get some individual characters so well executed but do so poorly on getting the two younger ones to "gel" with the rest.
once a judge or something like that.
AlphaDragoon
Member
shiroryu said:Balthier-Fran-Ashe, right
More like Basch/Ashe/whoever, since Basch was originally the main character and not Balthier.
My team was Vaan/Ashe/Basch pretty much the entire game.
ronito said:
Basch as mentioned was originally the main character. The reason Vaan and Penelo feel so "disconnected" from the rest of the story is because the writers decided that they should basically be two average Joes who were witness to some big event and tell it from the point of view of those normal people.
Which they found out sucked ass so they gave Vaan and Penelo actual personalities in Final Fantasy Tactics A2 and from then on they were awesome. If they ever were to remake FFXII in any capacity, I'd hope they would portray Vaan and Penelo as they do in FFTA2 from the get-go.
UnluckyKate
Member
Story wise, the game really disapointed me. Too bad because characters had plenty of potential and Blafear/Fran relationship is the best duo in any FF to date.
Design was, even if I love FF X more than its reasonnable too, FF XII is really classy and offers amazing environements for the PS2. I would love to see Rabanastre or Arcanes in HD.
Gameplay wise, I,m still debating if I like FF XII or not. Of course, it was dynamic, smooth and interesting with gambit, but I really like full party and time control in FFX, it was so strategic all the time and each turn was actually here for a reason. Also, it made later fight too gambit centric and it end up with a boss that you should beat away from your system during a night...
But I love all the loot, the chases missions, the simili mmo experience and the open world feeling. I just wish the characters progression wasnt the same on this stupid chess board... I heard the international zodiac version was doing a better job at this.
And you end up fighting the two last aeons almost in a row with a boss fight because they had to rush this crap before the final... What a terrible event planning...
Design was, even if I love FF X more than its reasonnable too, FF XII is really classy and offers amazing environements for the PS2. I would love to see Rabanastre or Arcanes in HD.
Gameplay wise, I,m still debating if I like FF XII or not. Of course, it was dynamic, smooth and interesting with gambit, but I really like full party and time control in FFX, it was so strategic all the time and each turn was actually here for a reason. Also, it made later fight too gambit centric and it end up with a boss that you should beat away from your system during a night...
But I love all the loot, the chases missions, the simili mmo experience and the open world feeling. I just wish the characters progression wasnt the same on this stupid chess board... I heard the international zodiac version was doing a better job at this.
Chiave said:
And you end up fighting the two last aeons almost in a row with a boss fight because they had to rush this crap before the final... What a terrible event planning...
It's not a zero-sum comparison. They're both fucking amazing.Rad- said:
Yeah, that's a common complaint, and I totally get it. To me, I felt (or rationalized) that Vaan was both the catalyst for getting everyone to team up and the glue to keep them together, even though he wasn't the real protagonist. He wound up being more of a Nick Carraway (Great Gatsby) narrator: along for the ride, but not the main character.ronito said:
(Funny that SE was originally going to make Basch the lead, when he's not the main character, either. It's Ashe.)
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Still my favourite FF. The plot kinda fell apart around the middle of the game, but the overall amazing gameplay more than made up for that. Hope SE will get around to doing a HD remaster for PS3/Vita after they're done with FF X.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
What did you guys think of Revenant Wings?
FreeMufasa said:
Keep in mind that I am NOT a Toriyama hater... I'm one of the few defenders of FFXIII and The 3rd Birthday. But I will say this:
Matsuno / Ito >>>>>>>>>>Toriyama
That's basically what I think of Revenant Wings...
It's an okay game but is definitely not worthy of FFXII's greatness.
flyover said:
It's been stated in interviews by Matsuno that Vaan is meant to be the "player", so that's why he's a bit more shallow. A bit like a silent protagonist would do the job of immersing the player in the game as the main character.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
What always bothered me was that I never felt like I was playing the characters right. I like that there's freedom in the character progression but it's pretty overwhelming, especially since the game does a piss-poor job of explaining what weapons work with what stats and the like.
So what always happened is that I'd get about 10-15 hours into the story, realized I hated how my party was set up, then restart. Never did beat it, though the last time I played I did get to the tower in the ocean (or whatever, near the end). At that point I was behind the curve on levels so the random junk was kicking my ass, gave up because I didn't feel like grinding out levels.
There's a whole lot of content on the game I just straight passed on, I really should go back and expand on that stuff.
But still, my main gripe is that some characters are great with some weapons, suck with others, and the game doesn't explicitly tell you which (I think I saw a min-max guide at some point saying that Vaan is best used with an axe/shield combo. Who would have thought?).
Edit: That said, it has my favorite characters of any FF and I genuinely loved the story. That it wasn't a "save the world!" plot but more politically oriented was an interesting break for the genre and I loved it.
Edit the second: I guess it's just because I wanted to play the story and my interest in JRPG gameplay has seriously waned over the years.
So what always happened is that I'd get about 10-15 hours into the story, realized I hated how my party was set up, then restart. Never did beat it, though the last time I played I did get to the tower in the ocean (or whatever, near the end). At that point I was behind the curve on levels so the random junk was kicking my ass, gave up because I didn't feel like grinding out levels.
There's a whole lot of content on the game I just straight passed on, I really should go back and expand on that stuff.
But still, my main gripe is that some characters are great with some weapons, suck with others, and the game doesn't explicitly tell you which (I think I saw a min-max guide at some point saying that Vaan is best used with an axe/shield combo. Who would have thought?).
Edit: That said, it has my favorite characters of any FF and I genuinely loved the story. That it wasn't a "save the world!" plot but more politically oriented was an interesting break for the genre and I loved it.
Edit the second: I guess it's just because I wanted to play the story and my interest in JRPG gameplay has seriously waned over the years.
The Henery
Member
My favourite FF after VII.
However I'm playing through FFVI for the first time ever on the virtual console and it has been incredible so far; it may well take silver from XII.
However I'm playing through FFVI for the first time ever on the virtual console and it has been incredible so far; it may well take silver from XII.
H_Prestige
Banned
There's really no difference except on paper. The stat difference between characters are too minor to result in any noticeable change in damage output. Just equip them with whatever you want.Dave Inc. said:
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I wish this had been the case, but I remember switching weapons for Balthier at one point and he went from "wimpiest wimp" to my highest DPS character. I think it was because of a "surprise, this weapon combos all the fucking time" mechanic that wasn't at all explained in the game.H_Prestige said:
I wanted to know the mechanics and choose based on those--the game never explained the mechanics. Should Vaan use swords, daggers or axes? A Katana? (No, not a katana because most of its damage is magic based, apparently). Too much mystery in the system, and while I could have gotten away with ignoring it I was constantly nagged by the feeling that I was playing the game wrong.
Fun fact: Balthier is better than Fran with bows, Fran is better with guns than Balthier. OKAY THANKS GAME.
Wow...5 pages already...I always come in on these threads too late.
I wonder if I would play FFXII again if it got the HD / international treatment. Certainly I would be more likely to do so than for FFX (0% chance).
From what I can remember:
- I liked the story, in the first part. I liked the political intrigue aspect of it, and I didn't like it when things started to get involved in Cid's craziness and everything went the usual FF route of mystical ridiculousness. Why does there always have to be some sort of higher power involved and manipulating things? It'd be nice to have a story that's just about people for once.
- I liked the characters, mostly. The voice acting was top notch, especially Fran. I didn't like Vaan, like most people, but you have to wonder if Balthier would have been as interesting without a foil like Vaan.
- I liked the gameplay, for the most part. No random battles is excellent. The gambit system was good, and certainly necessary, but it needed to be better. There wasn't enough conditional logic in it, and it was hard to set up things so that actions were taken in the right circumstances (for example, "I want to heal someone if their HP are below a certain point, using the character with the most MP, if their MP is not below a certain point").
- I wasn't a big fan of the music at the time, but I've come to appreciate it more. It wasn't melodic enough for me, being a fan of Uematsu. However, it's very atmospheric and stirring. One disadvantage is that its similarities in places to John Williams only serves to highlight the similarities of the story to Star Wars.
- One of the first games where I found myself very interested in the side quests (the monster hunts).
- The environments were awesome, but unfortunately nothing ever lived up to Rabanastre. But really, there are so many games where all of the effort is put into the first level and things get more generic as the game progresses.
I wonder if I would play FFXII again if it got the HD / international treatment. Certainly I would be more likely to do so than for FFX (0% chance).
From what I can remember:
- I liked the story, in the first part. I liked the political intrigue aspect of it, and I didn't like it when things started to get involved in Cid's craziness and everything went the usual FF route of mystical ridiculousness. Why does there always have to be some sort of higher power involved and manipulating things? It'd be nice to have a story that's just about people for once.
- I liked the characters, mostly. The voice acting was top notch, especially Fran. I didn't like Vaan, like most people, but you have to wonder if Balthier would have been as interesting without a foil like Vaan.
- I liked the gameplay, for the most part. No random battles is excellent. The gambit system was good, and certainly necessary, but it needed to be better. There wasn't enough conditional logic in it, and it was hard to set up things so that actions were taken in the right circumstances (for example, "I want to heal someone if their HP are below a certain point, using the character with the most MP, if their MP is not below a certain point").
- I wasn't a big fan of the music at the time, but I've come to appreciate it more. It wasn't melodic enough for me, being a fan of Uematsu. However, it's very atmospheric and stirring. One disadvantage is that its similarities in places to John Williams only serves to highlight the similarities of the story to Star Wars.
- One of the first games where I found myself very interested in the side quests (the monster hunts).
- The environments were awesome, but unfortunately nothing ever lived up to Rabanastre. But really, there are so many games where all of the effort is put into the first level and things get more generic as the game progresses.
H_Prestige
Banned
Again, these differences only exist on paper. They have no practical significance. I know this because I used to test this a lot when I played FFXII.Dave Inc. said:
Vaan and Ashe are technically the best for katanas, but I gave Penelo the same equipment and I noticed no difference in damage. You can plug the numbers in the damage formulas and you'd see the minimum-maximum damage range for each character is almost the same with any given weapon type.
nelsonroyale
Member
I thought both FFX and FFXII were pretty damn good but for different reasons...the scale of FFXII is pretty incredible though...the game is damn massive
H_Prestige said:
Vann, Ashe and Penelo have pretty good to best stats in Magic, so that might be why they hover around the same damage. If Fran, Basche and Balthier were to use them I think I remember it being on the lower end of the damage output but the difference is so low that it's not something to worry about.
And the whole Balthier is bad with guns is due to the actual animation frames. And yeah it is something that's very negligible if you're just out to play the game. The only time you see a difference of damage/heal output in an average playthrough is if you're playing the International version.
FFXII was the game that restored faith to me that FF is still a good series (until FFXIII came around). Some of the design choices they pushed for is pretty cool too, like how they approached the handling of character vs environment etc. I still find it pretty amazing that there's less polygons in the character models compared to FFX models considering how it turned out. FFXII feels like it should have been the PS3 game and FFXIII kept as a PS2 game.
So been going off with Vossler and hitting marks. Just got to King Raithwahl's tomb. It really is astounding what a visual feat this game is. It's just so intricate. Sorry Sakimoto fans, the soundtrack has gotten officially snore worthy. I literally fell asleep on the game last night. Also it's astounding that a game with such high production values and good overworld map that the dungeon design would be so damn poor. Still having fun. I've started this game twice before. I quit the first time shortly after the tomb. But so far I've put in far more hours in this. The Zodiac system really makes it a better game.