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RTTP: Super Mario 64. It's still fantastic!

VDenter

Banned
latest



I have not played the N64 version to 100% completion for a couple of years now and going back to it and doing it all over again was a treat. So yes, it still holds up surprisingly well after all these years. It’s not without its problems of course and the problems that do exist become noticeably worse with each subsequent playthrough but overall, it’s quite amazing what the development team accomplished in 1996.

The best thing about it is primarily how well Mario controls the amount of moves Mario can do add just layers of fun. Nintendo could have developed the exact same game just with all those extra mechanics removed and the game probably would have been just mediocre by today’s standards but thankfully they didn’t and it really elevates this game above many other platformers to this day.

The other great thing is the structure and progression system. Many people are quick to point out that Mario 64 is a “collecthaton” a game where you just run around do light platforming and collect things. It’s true but there is one noticeable difference that makes Mario 64 have a huge advantage over most games in this sub-genre. That is that the number of collectible types Mario must collect to beat the game. There are only two types in Mario 64 Stars and Coins. The coins are completely optional unless you are going for a 100%. Coins have different variations but they all go in the exact same collection slot. This is an important distinction to make when talking about this game because when compared to pretty much every single other 3D collecthaton platformer which usually had much more things to collect for seemingly no reason. At its absolute worst games like DK64 had a seemingly endless check list of useless stuffs that they wanted the player to find and it made some collectibles restricted based on what character the player was using. Honestly it was a textbook example of how not to do a 3D platformer game like this. Thankfully Mario 64 avoids most of these pitfalls where most other games in its genre fell right into and because it was the first game of its kind its quite amazing.

The levels are somewhat a mix of good and bad though. All the bigger and more outdoor type levels like…Bomb Omb Battlefield, Thwomp Fortress and Cool Cool Mountain are some of the games highlights, since the camera does not tend to be a huge issue in those levels and the mission objectives tend to be the most fleshed out in those worlds as well. The problem is that most of these levels are frontloaded in the game. Later levels like Hazy Maze Cave, Tick Tock Clock and Tiny Huge island have major camera issues because they require you to be in a tightly confined space or just have you do precise platforming where the camera can get stuck at geometry or make it difficult to gauge depth.

Mario 64 has generally the worst camera when compared to pretty much every single other 3D Mario game and that is not surprising since the N64 did not have a second analog stick for god knows what reason. As a result, the camera must be awkwardly shifted with the C buttons, assuming it does not get stuck on another piece of geometry or just flat out refuses to work at all. Another problem with the game is just how basic some of these mission objectives are. Some stars can be obtained roughly in thirty seconds to a minute at most and I wish I was exaggerating but some of these missions start and end so quickly that the game can be beaten rather quickly making it the shortest 3D Mario by a significant margin. This is one aspect just like with the camera the sequels improved upon immensely. Not to say that the mission is not fun to complete they are but some are much weaker than others. In most Worlds, the first two or three missions seem to be the one that the most development time seems to have gone through. Because the rest in each world feel very filefish by comparison. Same goes for the bosses they are so underwhelming. Was Nintendo to scared of designing more complex bosses because they were afraid of people might be too dumb to comprehend the 3D space at its fullest?

The music is nice. Tracks like the Castle, Dire Dire Docks and the credits send me straight back to my childhood like nothing else.

Anyway Mario 64 is still a fun game. One everybody should at least check out at some point or another and beating it just made me want Odyssey even more.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Probably best 3D Mario ever created.

While the others are great at it own they can't hold a candle for Super Mario 64.

Masterpiece.
 
worst mario game

way too much focus on exploration and collecting a bunch of stuff over actually interesting platforming challenges

the first banjo kazooie did this type of collectathon platformer way better, anyway
 

1morerobot

Member
Nice well thought-out post OP. I agree with most of it. I need to play it again. The camera was never that much of a problem for me.

Dire Dire Docks is awesome btw.
 
the first banjo kazooie did this type of collectathon platformer way better, anyway

I have to agree with this part. I've never been a big fan of Mario 64 myself but I appreciate everything it did to revolutionise 3D games. Weirdly enough, if it simply didn't boot you out of a level when you collect a Star, I'd probably be a big fan. As it is, I just find it frustrating covering the same ground so frequently.
 

BriGuy

Member
I love Mario 64 and make it a point to replay it every few years. Something about it is just magical to me.
 

Ogodei

Member
Wing Cap controls kind of suck in the original N64 version (which was corrected somewhat in the DS version but not really perfected until Galaxy's Flying Cap), that's about the only significant gripe i have with that game, if only for remembering all the struggles with "Mario Over the Rainbow" star.
 

ethomaz

Banned
BTW the unusual N64 controller worked like a champ in this game... I can't play it with normal controllers.
 
Why Nintendo refuses to make a proper remaster of this (and no the DS version doesn't count!)
Blows my mind!! And they could so easily fix the camera/depth issues with a modern day game engine!

It is still to this day my favorite game just barely edging out Halo 1/2 for me.

Just loved the exploration, the variety of world's....sure the browser boss fights could have been more sophisticated, but it was just so funny to me as a kid being able to grab and spin big browser by his tiny little tail
 
I don't think a second analog stick would've fixed the awful camera. The problem to me was the way it'd act like it knew better, and fix itself after you repositioned it. If they had left control completely to the player (clipping prevention aside), it probably would've been fine as is. I know I rarely did minute camera adjustmemts in Sunshine.

I'm glad you enjoyed going back to it! I revisit it almost yearly, and it's definitely one of my favorite games ever. Lots of people give it slack for how much commitment movement requires, but you can do so much once you learn it. And yeah, it's short, but that makes it easy to jump into. Like Star Fox 64, which is another personal favorite. ❤ the N64.
 
I still think the movement is a little messy. He goes from 1 to 100 instantly unlike the later 3D games. Its still incredibly difficult to get through some segments because of that.
 

Smasher89

Member
worst mario game

way too much focus on exploration and collecting a bunch of stuff over actually interesting platforming challenges

the first banjo kazooie did this type of collectathon platformer way better, anyway

This^ feels like the most overrated but also one of the most widely played versions of mario.

That said, my first time playing was not blindly, it was watching someone play on a probably completed gamefile and then testing it out so it didnt give the best second impression (saw it on TV the first time on a video game review show i recall).

Nothing in this game comes close to the perfect run or even champions road, which of course wouldnt happen without this game but still.
 

nkarafo

Member
I still think the movement is a little messy. He goes from 1 to 100 instantly unlike the later 3D games. Its still incredibly difficult to get through some segments because of that.
That's not the case normally. Maybe your analog stick is messed up?
 
worst mario game

way too much focus on exploration and collecting a bunch of stuff over actually interesting platforming challenges

the first banjo kazooie did this type of collectathon platformer way better, anyway

I never understood the collecting critique unless you also consider getting stars as collecting? The only collecting was 2 stars out of 7 of every level. The other 5 stars weren't typically collecting. You don't even have to collect 100 coins ever if you don't want to. That doesn't seem like a lot of collecting to me.

The literal objective of Banjo is collecting. You don't actually complete a level without collecting things, which isn't the case with Mario 64.

Edited for clarity.
 

nkarafo

Member
I never understood the collecting critique unless you also consider getting stars as collecting? The only collecting was 2 stars out of 7 of every level being collecting coins. You don't even have to collect 100 coins ever if you don't want to. That doesn't seem like a lot of collecting to me.

The literal objective of Banjo is collecting. You don't actually complete a level without collecting things, which isn't the case with Mario 64.
This. Mario 64 does focus a lot on exploration (which is awesome) but it's not a collectathon.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Many tried and failed to compete with Mario 64 on the PSX and Saturn etc....(Nights, Croc, Spyro, Crash et all) but they came no-where CLOSE to how big this game was and what if offered, it was one of THE killer apps for the system...with this game you knew you were on a another level....
 

Mandelbo

Member
I actually replayed it for the first time since I was a kid a few months ago, and I didn't really enjoy it as much as I thought I would. I can definitely appreciate how revolutionary it was for the time, but I don't think *all* of it's aged well. The camera's a pain, since you can only move it at fixed angles and it can easily get stuck behind things, meaning that I could never really get the kind of angle I wanted for certain sections. The movement also bugged me as well, particularly the swimming controls and how Mario handles - slipping backwards down a slope and being almost completely unable to control Mario's trajectory in some cases was *really* annoying too. Some of the stars were just kinda boring to get, too, especially the ones that are more or less "go over here and hit this block" - sometimes it didn't really feel like I'd done anything to deserve the star.

Galaxy's definitely my preferred 3D Mario game, especially after having replayed it after my 64 playthrough. Even though it's nowhere near as open-ended as 64 or Sunshine, I think the more directed level design helped each star feel unique, since you're usually going somewhere completely different and rarely have to cover the same ground twice. Despite his moveset being trimmed, Mario controls far better too, and even though you have far less control over the camera I almost never had any issues seeing what I was doing.

Nintendo have been flaunting Odyssey as the return of open-ended 3D Mario games, but I just hope they take more cues from Galaxy rather than 64 in terms of mission design. The brief bits of gameplay they've shown make it look like there's an immediacy and tightness to Mario's controls though, which is a good start!
 
It's kind of uncanny how well this game controlled, especially when you compare it with other platform games at the time. The fluidity in movement was so fucking ahead of its time and even the small issues with the camera almost feel superfluous when you compare the overall package of this game with its contemporaries.

Absolute masterpiece.
 
The controls here are still the best in any 3D Mario game.

Mario's weight and sense of inertia is unmatched. Also his moveset is the most robust, amazingly. I can't believe how well they got it right the first time.

The platforming isn't that robust in 64 compared to the sequels, but simply running and around, jumping and exploring the amazing Castle is wonderful. A true gem. This is my preferred 3D Mario formula because it expands on what Mario can be. I'm very excited Odyssey is following that template because there's further room to expand on this formula and we've had a lot of Mario games lately that focused more on the 2D style.
 

Joey Ravn

Banned
What I really find amazing about Super Mario 64 is that people are still dissecting it to the last pixel. You all know about the famous half-button-press, but look at this video. It was posted today. Some people are still working hard on squeezing every single possible way to achieve absolutely everything the game has to offer.

I wonder if there's any other game that's been as thoroughly studied as SM64. Super Metroid, maybe? Pokémon Red and Blue?
 

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
I tried to play it for the first time in years a while back and I just could not get used to the camera. Obviously it was fine back in the day but it just feels so unnatural now.
 

Vespa

Member
What I really find amazing about Super Mario 64 is that people are still dissecting it to the last pixel. You all know about the famous half-button-press, but look at this video. It was posted today. Some people are still working hard on squeezing every single possible way to achieve absolutely everything the game has to offer.

I wonder if there's any other game that's been as thoroughly studied as SM64. Super Metroid, maybe? Pokémon Red and Blue?

That video is what the fuck to the power of mindblown.gif
 
How well do other games hold up to Super Mario 64, OP?

VDenter said:
Many people are quick to point out that Mario 64 is a ”collecthaton" a game where you just run around do light platforming and collect things. It's true . . .

Super Mario 64 is not a collect-a-thon. A collect-a-thon is a game that revolves around collecting dumb doodads in excess. Collect-a-thons are games like Donkey Kong 64, Banjo Kazooie, StarFox Adventures, etc. These are games where numerous doodads are scattered around without much thought to acrobatic maneuvering as to keeping a tally of a lengthy inventory list.

VDenter said:
Mario 64 has generally the worst camera when compared to pretty much every single other 3D Mario game and that is not surprising since the N64 did not have a second analog stick for god knows what reason.
Not quite. Super Mario Galaxy has a worse camera than Super Mario 64.

VDenter said:
Was Nintendo to scared of designing more complex bosses because they were afraid of people might be too dumb to comprehend the 3D space at its fullest?
Yes, but replace the word 'dumb' with 'inexperienced'. The analog stick was introduced to gamers with Nintendo 64. Super Mario 64, a launch title, had the difficulty adjusted as a result (less complex boss = less difficult boss).
 

Neiteio

Member
I've been wanting to replay this (and Sunshine!), but I hear it's dark and laggy on the WiiU VC. I hope Nintendo has NERD rectify this on the Switch VC.
 
Probably. I do think Sunshine is really close if not on par in this regard though. I loved the versatility FLUDD added even if it did come at the cost of a long jump.

Flood's controls were terrible for the simple fact it required a toggle between two essential features, making it completely unintuitive to pull one out in a pinch. Fuck Fludd
 

Courage

Member
I've been wanting to replay this (and Sunshine!), but I hear it's dark and laggy on the WiiU VC. I hope Nintendo has NERD rectify this on the Switch VC.
When I wanted to replay it, I just bought it through the Wii VC via the Wii U's BC. Looks and plays way better.
 

Neiteio

Member
When I wanted to replay it, I just bought it through the Wii VC via the Wii U's BC. Looks and plays way better.
I could do this. I owned it on the Wii VC and remembered it looking and playing well there. Might be worth digging out the Wii Classic Controller Pro for it.
 
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