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RTTP: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Game was super easy, I autopiloted it in two days (and 25 hours) my first time through. I disliked the intro, Midna, and the way Ganon was handled.

But I really enjoyed it. I think it says volumes that I crushed the game in two days of play. Its been weeks since getting SS and I'm probably not even half way through it, it just completely fails to grab me.
 
Khold said:
But people who had negative opinions have been filtered because they aren't as likely to post in a RTTP thread or the like.
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There have been several TP appreciation threads, from before SS was even announced until this one. Besides, even if this was the first thread praising TP (and it most certainly is not), what do you expect? A new console Zelda just came out, and people are going to compare it to the previous one.

Anth0ny said:
no dude, if you like a nintendo 64 game, it's nostalgia. gosh.
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;)

On a side note, I've noticed that people don't use the nostalgia argument against Wind Waker fans. In my opinion, I think it's because people who don't enjoy Ocarina of Time don't have any big flaws to point out, so they resort to trying to make the OoT fan's argument sound unintelligent by pulling the nostalgia card. The biggest flaw is probably the iron boots switching, but don't you have to deal with the same problem with LA every time you change items (which is far more often)? /rant

TP really isn't a terrible game, though. But I feel it's a weak Zelda game that really feels dated in a way that no other 3D Zelda does.
 
Twlight Princess had the worst pacing in the series. By the second half of the game, all your doing is clearing dungeons without any breaks in between.
 
KeeSomething said:
There have been several TP appreciation threads, from before SS was even announced until this one. Besides, even if this was the first thread praising TP (and it most certainly is not), what do you expect? A new console Zelda just came out, and people are going to compare it to the previous one.
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a.) I'm not the one who declared this thread "Zelda cycle" in the first place.
b.) I still think that the "cycle" refers to a lessening of negative opinions (not there amount of people who hold these opinions, but their prevalence), rather than measuring any significant change in positive ones. Most Zelda games come to release with many favorable opinions.
 
Azuran said:
Twlight Princess had the worst pacing in the series. By the second half of the game, all your doing is clearing dungeons without any breaks in between.
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I actually loved that. SS for me is the worst pacing because of the damn fetch quests interrupting my puzzle solving.
 
Have loved TP day one and every day since then. It is an adult Zelda, despite claims from some that they want a mature Zelda still. This was that game. Great atmosphere, great story, dungeons, bosses etc. No complaints from me. Have been enjoying Skyward Sword a bit more but the overall tone is so different between the games.

Midna is amazing. Still pissed that Wolf Link/Midna wasn't in Brawl.
 
Khold said:
a.) I'm not the one who declared this thread "Zelda cycle" in the first place.
b.) I still think that the "cycle" refers to a lessening of negative opinions (not there amount of people who hold these opinions, but their prevalence), rather than measuring any significant change in positive ones. Most Zelda games come to release with many favorable opinions.
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I believe the Zelda cycle was made up to belittle people's opinions.

The only Zelda game that seemed to get much more praise after the next console Zelda was released was Wind Waker, but based on my observations, they were the same fans that always loved WW, but the backlash of TP made them more vocal with their WW love.

On a side note, Wind Waker, while probably the first Zelda game to have really bad pacing caused by rushed gameplay mechanics (Triforce quest, sailing--which happens to be a doubled-edged sword for me), really has the best sense of adventure in the series. SS came close, but I feel like no Zelda will capture that feeling of adventure that WW nailed.
 
I understand how people have different opinions and I accept that you like it over SS, butl I thought (and still do) that it was dull and drab. Most of the music was very plain and mundane. Visually the worst thing about it was probably the environment textures which are probably worse than any other 3d Zelda, they are just muddy and generic as if from some shovel-ware PC game.

I replayed it partially a few weeks before SS was out and my opinion remains rather unaffected, except I do appreciate the dungeon design more than the first time. But I can't think of single area in the game that was even remotely as lively and well designed as Skyloft or Faron Woods (SS) or Earth Temple.

The SS game-world is like a toy store full of interactive, dazzling novelties. The TP world is like a dreary look-but-don't-touch museum. Some areas are so lifeless I get depressed when I play them. The castle at the end is a terrible, empty 3d model with very limited functionality, and so is the overworld. Zoras domain is the most atrociously designed area of any Zelda game, there's nothing to do but run and swim large distances. I never got to open that hut over the river, was there anything worthy in there? And wtf at haunted cowboy kakariko village? Crude, empty and lifeless is the aftertaste I have from TP.
 
I have always enjoyed TP. Sure, I thought it had flaws, but I didn't really understand what we had in that game until after SS. I've really come to appreciate way more aspects of the game after noticing it was gone this time around. Things like a vast world, plentiful enemy designs, a sense of urgency, and complex dungeon layouts. SS got a lot right, but it also missed out on a lot of great things. After it's all said and done, SS feels like a really nice experiment for motion controls.

If they can merge what's good about every past Zelda game in Zelda Wii U, we're looking at a true masterpiece.


Mato said:
Visually the worst thing about it was probably the environment textures which are probably worse than any other 3d Zelda, they are just muddy and generic as if from some shovel-ware PC game.
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I sort of agree. I absolutely love the DOF painting effect, but up close some of the textures look very out of place. The grass sucks so hard. I just wish they had made things a little more detailed and kept the painting effect a bit farther back.
 
^I agree, Mato. SS has its flaws, but the things it does right do put it above TP.

JimWood27 said:
Still pissed that Wolf Link/Midna wasn't in Brawl.
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Yeah, I always thought they'd make a perfect and unique addition to Brawl. Here's to hoping they show up in the next Smash Bros (as well as Ghirahim).
 
Strange, I was going to replay it too after watching the Zant fight on youtube. I literally remember NOTHING about that game so I figure I might as well replay it to have it ingrained in me (seriously I can remember all of the other zelda's save this one >_>) and I definitely think the game gets a bad rap for no reason. Zelda cycle be damned, this game has a ton of haters.

Speaking of Zant, the boss battle itself is hilarious. Nintendo was subtly giving us the message that he was insane, and suddenly went "fuck it" and made him into a jokish lunatic during his fight. Still really funny :P
 
i never got around to finishing it, but from what i experienced i feel it has very high highs and very low lows. when i was playing i either felt fantastic and felt like the game really has a sense of scale, but when it was boring it was very tedious and put me to sleep.
 
FreeMufasa said:
Oh I forgot to mention in the OP. Despite liking the pointer controls, I ultimately prefer the game with a GC pad. Control of the camera definately makes those tight wolf jumps easier.
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Like salt in a wound...

I more hated that waving got tedious for the sword, control for things like the bird/fruit thing were ridiculous, and just having the terrible lag or moments when it would have to think while it picked up your reticule got annoying.

upJTboogie said:
Nothing will top the snow mansion dungeon for me, so unique.
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Yeto and Yeta were a delight.
 
For those who say TP is easy. Try getting 4 bottles of Great Fairy Tears. I remember I was down to 3. I never bothered to get the 4th one due to the ruppee scavange you need to go through for the magic armor. Even with the armor it's crazy hard. I put just over 100 hrs in TP. I totally made that game my bitch.
 
My opinion of Twilight Princess hasn't changed it is still mediocre and the worst of the 3D Zelda games.

The horrible start to the game doesn't end in my view until you have cleared Eldin Twilight, before that you are essentially on a linear path. There are just so many loose ends in the game that the devs included that make it less enjoyable than other Zeldas.

My first sticking point is 5 heart pieces for a container with 45 total and some in dungeons. That is more than Wind Waker which is a notorious collectathon from triumph forks to sea charts etc. The 5 pieces really slows down progression as well, I'm not exactly sure of the numbers but I'm sure they could've got near 36 if they eliminated the ones in dungeons. (Skyward Sword is also guilty of dungeons heart pieces)

Rupees are essentially useless, there are just so many and so little to spend them on. It is infuriating to complete a puzzle then get to the chest and find you can't open it because you have too much money (Spinner puzzle at Hyrule Castle is probably the best example)

The easiness of the game also counts heavily against it too. Zelda has never been particularly hard post NES but TP is easy because Link is so over powered, it is almost insulting.

By far my biggest problem is the story. It isn't compelling or motivating at all as I never feel like I'm in control of the quest. I am essentially Midna's bitch. When playing as wolf link you hold A so Midna can point out who you should attack then it automatically does it. (Fi and Navi might be annoying but at least they never fight for me) Jumping as wolf as well, plus she is riding on me for the whole time. It never sits well with me. Even the search for the kids never gets me, they are annoying and end up not needing rescued at all.

Link has so many confusing relationships too. I speak to Zelda like twice but never really do much to contribute, I'm Midna's babysitter. Ilia is apparently my love interest but nothing really happens with that. I have all these animal buddies my hawk, horse, cats i can talk too but it never feels fleshed out to mean anything but so involved it feels unfinished. The gang from Telma's are not that important but they are interjected in the final dungeon, I'm not even sure who half of them are. Ganon appears from virtually nowhere and I kill him, totally unnecessary, Zant could easily have been the main villain.

There are simply too many call back and relying on previous games to fill in the gaps. I never hear what Ganondorf wants, I never relate to Zelda or even to the horse. There is no character building (Midna apart) because the devs seem to think you will have attachments to characters from previous games. The dungeons are OK, not particularly better than other games apart from Wind Waker.
 
Rocket Punch said:
For those who say TP is easy. Try getting 4 bottles of Great Fairy Tears. I remember I was down to 3. I never bothered to get the 4rth one due to the ruppee scavange you need for the magic armor. I put just over 100 hrs in TP. I totally made that game my bitch.
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What was that?
Was it the big 100 floor dungeon hole thing in the desert? Try going through the entire thing twice. The next to last floor and final floor go from 2 dark nuts and 3 dark nuts to 3 dark nuts and 4 dark nuts. Fun stuff. (or maybe it was 4 and 5? I don't remember, didn't mess with it when I replayed it)


Also, getting that armor is a piece of cake if you do the cheap way of building the bridge. Got it unintentionally on my first play, and I laughed at my friend when he complained about how expensive it was. I didn't realize I had saved myself a TON of effort.

Faddy said:
By far my biggest problem is the story. It isn't compelling or motivating at all as I never feel like I'm in control of the quest. I am essentially Midna's bitch.
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I know, isn't it hot?
 
I found Midna's transition from sarcastic bitch to suddenly remorseful and calm imp strange. I don't know how to describe it..
 
The Great Fairy Tears are the last reward you get for finishing up the Cave of Ordeals. You need the Magic Armor to finish it up but the thing eats ruppees like they're air. You need to rack up your total number of ruppees for best results.
 
I liked it, but I do think it is the weakest of the 3D Zelda games.

The beginning was slowly paced, I disliked the wolf segments and I found the ending to leave me saying "That's it?"

There's something about The Wind Waker (and Skyward Sword) that has me far more captivated. I feel more attached to those 2 games, and that's taking into account the fact I have yet to complete SS.

I'll most definitely return to the game in the near future however since I'm curious to see what I'd make of it now,
 
Caelus said:
I found Midna's transition from sarcastic bitch to suddenly remorseful and calm imp strange. I don't know how to describe it..
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That was pretty jarring. I mean, I guess I get what they were going for, but it just didn't come across well at all.

Rocket Punch said:
The Great Fairy Tears are the last reward you get for finishing up the Cave of Ordeals. You need the Magic Armor to finish it up but the thing eats ruppees like they're air. You need to rack up your total number of ruppees for best results.
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Oh, I was thinking it happened at every single floor there was a fairy. You're crazy for going through 3 times. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!
I only went through a second time because I saw the postman down there right as I jumped off the ledge to the final floor. So, yeah, I went through the entire thing again to see what happened with him, and he just has some simple line where he's talking to himself or something.
 
I love how large the game feels. I even liked the Spirit drop segments.

Before Skyward Sword, I was amazed how it took me 50 hours to beat the game but I never even felt like I was doing major retreads.

I missed certain touches in TP that weren't in SS. Like the charged jump attack, and that you can reel in/out with the Clawshots.

And yeah, 2 of my favorite bosses are the boss of the Goron Mines and the boss of the City in the Sky.

I was a bit disappointed there weren't more references to OoT, as far as landmarks and characters go (just because it's an updated Hyrule), but the game had its own story to tell.

Rocket Punch said:
The Great Fairy Tears are the last reward you get for finishing up the Cave of Ordeals. You need the Magic Armor to finish it up but the thing eats ruppees like they're air. You need to rack up your total number of ruppees for best results.
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The Rare Chu Jellies work the same way as Fairy Tears, but you can only carry take one bottle of Tears at a time (though you can carry 2 because you get another bottle from someone else).

I think if you miss the Rare Chus they'll never appear again, but you can carry multiple if you catch them.

I never use them though, they are precious to me
 
Azuran said:
Twlight Princess had the worst pacing in the series. By the second half of the game, all your doing is clearing dungeons without any breaks in between.
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Easily my biggest complaint. I mean, yeah they were great dungeons, but it felt really weird.

I was expecting more stuff in between like the bridge boss battle, stuff outside of the dungeon context.

That said I quite enjoyed the game. I loved the aesthetic and the setting.
 
Typographenia said:
That was pretty jarring. I mean, I guess I get what they were going for, but it just didn't come across well at all.
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It was a hell of a lot better than Fi.
She had no development what so ever, then all of a sudden at the end they try to give her a "heart warming" scene of farewell.
 
i think i need to replay this. i remember that i loved the game but i cant really say what exactly i loved about it, other than midna and that awesome stallord boss battle

that bridge scene was epic too. hell, everything leading up to that was excellent

oh yeah i remember, that darknut battle was sooooo goood. soooo easy but so good.
 
TheCongressman1 said:
It was a hell of a lot better than Fi.
She had no development what so ever, then all of a sudden at the end they try to give her a "heart warming" scene of farewell.
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her interactions with Scrapper were pretty funny.

but TP's cast is way more dependant on Midna while SS doesn't need to rely on Fi so much.

SS has amazing characters like Groose!
 
Azuran said:
Twlight Princess had the worst pacing in the series. By the second half of the game, all your doing is clearing dungeons without any breaks in between.
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That's fine by me to be honest. I absolutely loved TPs dungeons, especially the ones the OP mentioned. The desert one is awesome, and the ice mansion is one of my favorites. I'm still early on in SS, just got to the 2nd dungeon, so I'll hold off on a comparision between the two, but I'm hoping they can be as awesomely designed as TP (the first one in SS wasn't bad).
 
Awesome game. I enjoyed more than Wind Waker.

Midna was a great addition.

The levels and bosses were awesome.The area when you enter a destroyed castle that turns out to be the Temple of Time. I must admit I marked the fuck out.
 
Liked:
Most of the dungeons. Particularly wind, water, snow and forest.
Lake Hylia. So much cool stuff to do in one place.
The ending. One of the best, most satisfying endings in any game ever. Seriously.
Music (light side).
Ranged combat.

Disliked:
Sword combat.
Long introduction.
Almost all of the dark world segments.
Rupee overload taking away the incentive to explore (as usual).
 
yep, twilight princess is still fantastic. i'm replaying it too atm, currently at the last dungeon. just like you, i thought tp was better after finishing ss, but not until now that i actually went back and replayed it did i realize just HOW much better it is. and having had some time to let the whole experience of ss sink in a little more, i now notice how few things in that game feel memorable to me, outside of the 4th dungeon and some of the boss fight(s). tp has so many memorable moments and dungeons and so much better pacing, it's not even funny.

also, everyone who posts "zelda cycle" should be banned. it's a detracting, shallow, stupid and lazy non-argument. it's pretty embarrassing, frankly, and everyone with half a brain should be capable of figuring out why. potentially worth less in a discussion about the series than a snarky one-liner.
 
I actually want to get the Gamecube version again. Pointer aiming is neat, but out weighed by the constant sword swipes. Last time I picked the Wii version of the game up, I ended up turning off the pointer controls all together just to get that annoying fairy off the screen. May as well be playing the 'cube version in that case. Then I also gain camera control, which I missed dearly in the Wii version.
 
I loved TP but I absolutely hated the Snow Mansion and Twilight Dungeon. They didn't feel like Zelda dungeons at all.

Here's how I would rank them from best to worst.

- Forest Temple
- Goren Mines
- Arbiter Grounds
- Lakebed Temple
- Sky Temple
- Temple of Time
- Snowpeak Ruins
- Palace of Twilight

I havent really dove into SS yet. Im still on the first dungeon.
 
I remember waiting for the Gamecube version of this game was so painful. Then it came out and I blasted through it in five days, couldn't put it down...similar to OoT, MM, and LttP. At the time it was so good it made me forgive Nintendo for Wind Waker.

It still has the typical fluff and padding that has been present since WW, but unlike WW and SS that fluff almost seemed worth it because of how damn good the dungeons were. Seriously, so good. It ALMOST had MM level dungeons, which is amazing since it had twice as many, the only dungeon I would take out would be Palace of Twilight. It still had flaws though: the tears, the field sucked (though some of the predungeon overworld areas were still amazing), and the intro is just fucking awful.

It's got me thinking though, if I could only have 8 dungeons from the series...with no overlap in themes, and make one game with them what would I choose. Right now I'm going with:

1. Forest Temple (OoT)
2. Goron Mines (TP)
3. Arbiter Grounds (TP) -- Tough choice between this and Spirit...
4. Stone Tower Temple (MM)
5. Great Bay Temple (MM) -- Tough choice between this and Lakebead
6. Sky Temple (TP)
7. Snowhead Temple (MM)
8. Shadow Temple (OoT)
 
Well considering that TP is quite possibly my favorite game of all time I bet you can guess where I stand. I love the game and imo it is far superior to SS. For me personally it hit all the right notes. Hell I like TP's controls better....IR>the shit pointing is SS and not being able to run while swinging sword is moronic. Also spin attack and finishing blow requiring so much movement is lame.

Now if they took the art, epic scope, and dungeons of TP (and midna) and combined it with SS's direct combat and side quests you might have something.
 
06nbarnhill said:
Well considering that TP is quite possibly my favorite game of all time I bet you can guess where I stand. I love the game and imo it is far superior to SS. For me personally it hit all the right notes. Hell I like TP's controls better....IR>the shit pointing is SS and not being able to run while swinging sword is moronic. Also spin attack and finishing blow requiring so much movement is lame.

Now if they took the art, epic scope, and dungeons of TP (and midna) and combined it with SS's direct combat and side quests you might have something.
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I'd probably go with MM sidequests...
 
still don't get why zant wasn't the last boss. granted, I loved the last boss fight in TP regardless, but it would have been so much more fitting with Zant being it.
 
Man, does anyone have a Dolphin save state for this game around the water temple area? Or, just after you do the last bug collection thing? I have tried time after time to beat this, to get into it and I just can't do it. I might try again but I REALLY do not want to go through the terrible ass start again. And yes, I own 2 copies of the game.
 
Heh, just came from playing this to celebrate its 5th anniversary. Up until SS this was my favourite game to date, but now I'm undecided, what SS does it does better, it's a fantastic evolution with tons of new stuff, but I still miss the exploration from TP, so I dunno...
Amazing game and my only complaint is that the enemies are too easy. Best dungeons ever.
 
So far, even after Skyward Sword (i'm not done with it yet), Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game. Such an amazingly well-made game. Far from perfect, but still amazing to me.
 
TheLastCandle said:
TP is probably my favorite Zelda game, but it has nothing to do with the Zelda Cycle. I've been saying that ever since I beat it during the Wii launch period. Love that game.

Still working on SS, though. The jury is still out.
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Actually this IS the Zelda cycle. It's not some kind of magic that makes people hypocrites. It's that the haters have already voiced their opinion and moved on, the only people who stay are the ones who loved the game (hence why they become the dominant vocal group).

Anyway, TP was such an amazing game. It's NOT what was promised in E3 2004, but I think we got a game that was equally fascinating. I don't think there are many games that had the same scope of this game last generation.
 
It took a second playthrough for me to see how well designed the game really is. The problems are still present of course: no reward for exploration, just useless rupees. Vast, but empty and drab overworld. Goes on too long and loses steam at the end. Items are nigh-on useless outside of the dungeons you find them in.

That said, the game has the best dungeons in any Zelda and it feels suitable epic. And even if the overworld itself might not be very interesting, the game feels incredibly and lovingly detailed, just very fleshed out. It's a mid-tier Zelda for me, but that means its still a near-classic, a must-play and a very worthy addition to the Zelda series.
 
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