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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
I like Mega Scizor. I mean, hell, we're talking a line that starts with a pokemon that has blades for hands, so going for an over the top, kind of try hard type of cool works in my mind.
As for Jynx... I honestly do believe the design came from ganguro. Which doesn't mean they were wrong to change it, as the implications were still there when it hit the world stage. And regardless, with a lot of this stuff, ESPECIALLY when the further back you go in time, it's important to recognize that a lot of racist looking characters coming out of Japan were literally a case of ignorance. People weren't being racist, they literally just didn't know any better. Which doesn't make the designs cool or a-okay or anything, but it does mean it's important to keep in mind that those designs don't make the creators "racists". (Hell, going way back Osamu Tezuka does this pretty bad when the dude was honestly pretty damn progressive).
So yeah, long maybe off topic rant, but I guess my point is that it was right that they changed the design, but the original design doesn't mean Gamefreak were racists.
Edit: Before I forget, I definitely don't think this applies down to nowadays and anyone releasing such a design in recent years shouldn't be getting a "pass" on this.
As for Jynx... I honestly do believe the design came from ganguro. Which doesn't mean they were wrong to change it, as the implications were still there when it hit the world stage. And regardless, with a lot of this stuff, ESPECIALLY when the further back you go in time, it's important to recognize that a lot of racist looking characters coming out of Japan were literally a case of ignorance. People weren't being racist, they literally just didn't know any better. Which doesn't make the designs cool or a-okay or anything, but it does mean it's important to keep in mind that those designs don't make the creators "racists". (Hell, going way back Osamu Tezuka does this pretty bad when the dude was honestly pretty damn progressive).
So yeah, long maybe off topic rant, but I guess my point is that it was right that they changed the design, but the original design doesn't mean Gamefreak were racists.
Edit: Before I forget, I definitely don't think this applies down to nowadays and anyone releasing such a design in recent years shouldn't be getting a "pass" on this.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Jynx's stadium animations were bizarre.
Scyther is one of the Pokemon I feel had mediocre Stadium animations. His attacks end up looking like he's just flailing around, although licking his scythe was kind of cool.
Scyther is one of the Pokemon I feel had mediocre Stadium animations. His attacks end up looking like he's just flailing around, although licking his scythe was kind of cool.
Air Balloon Fan Rotom. The new meta
Ha ha.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
People still hating on Mega Heracross? Are there people still thinking about "the nose" and "the mouth"?
Can't hate the mon when it is Big O incarnate.
wat
Mega Heracross's only sin is GF's decision in giving it shitty animations on moves it will always use while relegating it's really good animations on shitty moves.
M Heracross is always the mon I use as an example for exemplary animations in XY, too bad rather than using its vulcan-arm for pin missile we get a shitty "hop" animation.
Can't hate the mon when it is Big O incarnate.
wat
Mega Heracross's only sin is GF's decision in giving it shitty animations on moves it will always use while relegating it's really good animations on shitty moves.
M Heracross is always the mon I use as an example for exemplary animations in XY, too bad rather than using its vulcan-arm for pin missile we get a shitty "hop" animation.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Mega Heracross looks like he could have just been an evolution.
As a kid I was super confused on why Scyther got an evolution, but Heracross was not Pinsir's evolution.
As a kid I was super confused on why Scyther got an evolution, but Heracross was not Pinsir's evolution.
lol I definitely thought Heracross was Pinsir's evo as a kid
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Speaking of Stealth Rock and Bug Pokemon, I'd love if Bug-type Pokemon, due to being "small" and based on creatures that are actually pretty hardy, were immune to all entry hazards except for Sticky Web. So they'd be immune to Stealth Rock.
Anyway, this is the Yokai Watch character I was talking about...
Yeah, released in in like 2013 or so.
Anyway, this is the Yokai Watch character I was talking about...
Yeah, released in in like 2013 or so.
That'll be a buff for the Bug Type I could definitely get behind.
For what it's worth that "afro" seems to also be playing off the whole "thief with furoshiki" trope which could've been a cute/clever idea otherwise but... Yeah, that definitely goes into some pretty unfortunate territory, and I also how they're going to tackle that when it comes time for localization.Speaking of Stealth Rock and Bug Pokemon, I'd love if Bug-type Pokemon, due to being "small" and based on creatures that are actually pretty hardy, were immune to all entry hazards except for Sticky Web. So they'd be immune to Stealth Rock.
Anyway, this is the Yokai Watch character I was talking about...
Yeah, released in in like 2013 or so.
Edit: Jynx styled recoloring could do it I guess, as the color choice is probably causing the worst of it.
Waluigilicious
Member
Why do we not get a National Dex with all 721 Pokemon ordered like how they will be if they were all taken into account? You know, like how GSC done it. It would have all the legendaries together at the end, all the early bugs and birds at the beginning etc. And of course group families together like Pichu, Pikachu, Raichu and Magby, Magmar, Magmortar etc.
Has anyone attempted something like this? It's long overdue. Especially with families now spanning upto 4 different generations (Eevee)
Has anyone attempted something like this? It's long overdue. Especially with families now spanning upto 4 different generations (Eevee)
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
But a lot of bug mons are big!
GiantBreadbug
Member
That's kinda what OP is doing right? Just going in chronological order but including cross-gen evos when they come up?
Actually to do what you're saying it would just be do what OP is doing but save all the legendaries for the end.
Waluigilicious
Member
No it'll be something like
Caterpie
Metapod
Butterfree
Weedle
Kakuna
Beedrill
Ledyba
Ledian
Spinarak
Ariados
Wurmple
Silcoon
Beautifly
Cascoon
Dustox
Kricketot
Kricketune
Scatterbug
Spewpa
Vivillion
Pidgey
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Hoothoot
Noctowl
Taillow
Swellow
Starly
Staravia
Staraptor
Pidove
Tranquill
Unfezant
Fletchling
Fletchinder
Talonflame
Rattata
Raticate
Sentret
Furret
Zigzagoon
Linoone
Bidoof
Bibarel
Patrat
Watchog
Bunnelby
Diggersby
Etc
It's such a missed opportunity and not only does it make sense, but it looks really good and also removes the illusion that the designs got worse over time. It was amazing in GSC when they done this. The only thing I'd like changed from that is to have all starters from all gens at the beginning going in order rather than stick them all at the end.
Didn't put the two gen 5 bug families of Sewaddle and Venipede at the start because they come later in that dex and are stronger but you get the rough idea. Do this with images and you see how good it looks.
Ally of Justice
Member
Jynx is one of my favourite Pokemon, but I'm disappointed they never gave it an evolution like they did with Magmar and Electabuzz, especially when they seemed to be counterparts of each other and receiving a baby form in Gen II.
I've used a Jynx in every game I can, but sadly, it's not available early in any game and by the time I can get one, I already have a full team. I'm looking forward to a potential Mega Jynx or evolution in Pokemon Z!
I've used a Jynx in every game I can, but sadly, it's not available early in any game and by the time I can get one, I already have a full team. I'm looking forward to a potential Mega Jynx or evolution in Pokemon Z!
Like Birdie said though there seems to be some attempt as disowning the Pokemon now. I doubt it will ever get a Mega. Like you said skipping it in gen IV when handing out evolutions was strange.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
#125 - Electabuzz
Electric
Electabuzz is exclusive to Pokemon Red, being found in the Power Plant, and a pretty intimidating and powerful looking single-stage Pokemon upon its debut. Like Scyther, in my memory I recall Electabuzz being very strong, but it turns out he was always just kind of average, his best traits being his all-around good stats, and decent set of moves, such as learning Psychic which was his main advantage over other Electric-type Pokemon at the time as he had a good counter to Ground-type Pokemon. Still, Electabuzz gave off the impression of power, and was another reason players of Pokemon Red likely considered themselves "winning". There were very few Electric-type Pokemon in Generation 1, and Electabuzz wasn't too hard to come across, so I imagine there were a decent amount of players who gave him a spot on their main team.
Visually, I love Electabuzz's appearance, being a Pokemon that gives off a powerful impression but also has a cute charm to it, with its round, stubby body---I almost feel like if Nintendo of America convinced the Game Freak to change up the appearances of the cuter Pokemon during localization to make it more "extreme", Electabuzz is what I imagine NoA Pikachu would look like. Electabuzz is a rather simple Pokemon in terms of motif, representing the basic idea of what an "Electrical monster" would be like, basically a living lightning rod that loves to feed on electricity. Actually, besides Pikachu, the whole "feeding on electric" thing is pretty much shared by all the Generation I Pokemon, and you gotta wonder how the Pokemon World deals with this issue. Have they created specific measures around Power Plants to ensure these Pokemon don't eat all the electricity and cause massive blackouts? Electabuzz is usually shown discharging electricity through its fists, spinning them around like a generator, but as I kid I used to think it fired electricity out of its armpits, due to how the Base Set TCG card looks, and that always made me laugh and gave this Pokemon a whimsical element to it.
So, what is Electabuzz? Most Westerners probably saw him as a tiger, due to his tiger-stripes, but as a lover of tigers as a child---my elementary school where I first played Pokemon at was nicknamed the "Flying Tigers"---I thought Electabuzz did a pretty poor job at representing them, and always saw him resembling some sort of weird ape-like creature more so. We got a better tiger-like Pokemon in Generation II, although even that's debated hotly among fans, but I'd still love to just see a more traditional, regular line of tiger Pokemon one of these days. Despite not being a true "tiger", Electabuzz was given a baseball team in the show that parodied the popular Japanese team the Hanshin Tigers, who you might know as the team who pissed off Colonel Sanders, so I guess he's basically the honorary tiger Pokemon at the moment. Actually, Electabuzz doesn't have tiger stripes because he's a tiger, rather it's because he's based on yet another popular Japanese monster known for wearing tiger pelts, the oni.
You probably know what an oni is if you have any familiarity with Japanese culture, or at the very least watched the HFIL episode of DBZ, but oni are actually pretty diverse creatures who have a variety of appearances across Japanese lore---Electabuzz embodies only, like, two elements of the oni in that it takes the idea of the oni wearing a tiger loincloth and has it instead serve as its fur, and also borrows the idea of the oni having horns, but turns them into electrical antennas instead. There's one other element that's rather obscure, in that oni sometimes have extra eyes or digits, which actually was incorporated into Electabuzz's Stadium model, where it actually has six fingers, although personally I think this was a modeling error and not a purposeful reference. Furthermore, his electrical abilities are probably inspired by Raijin, the Japanese God of thunder and lightning who is sometimes depicted as an oni wearing a tiger loincloth, although some of his appearances in classic art leave out the tiger element. Electabuzz is one of those Generation I Pokemon where his motif was later copied by other Pokemon who took the motif a bit closer to the source material, as Generation V multiple Pokemon who seem to embody the oni a bit better, including one specifically based on Raijin. Still, those Pokemon are a bit controversial among fans, and from a visual standpoint Electabuzz probably wins out, a classic Generation I Pokemon everyone seems to like.
Electabuzz has been a rather popular Pokemon in the show, popping up quite often. The most important Electabuzz didn't debut till Diamond and Pearl under the ownership of Ash's rival Paul, and was one of the first rival Pokemon I recall who actually received a fair amount of development, being both an enemy to Ash but at times also demonstrated a more friendly personality, quite different from its owner who was probably the most antagonistic and cruel rival ever introduced in the show. Just another one of the many reasons I absolutely adored the Diamond and Pearl series, honestly. Every time Electabuzz appears, it's usually depicted as being quite strong, and we've seen it take part in the Orange League, Johto League, and Hoenn League as a competitor.
#239 - Elekid
Electric
Elekid was another Baby Pokemon introduced in Generation II alongside Smoochum, although probably not created to remove the racial element of its evolution like she was. Elekid is another Baby Pokemon shown as being fairly capable, but it wasn't till Generation IV that Baby Pokemon began to appear in the wild as capable Pokemon, and even then it wasn't till Black and White 2 that Elekid appeared in the wild in a common location showing how the species had perhaps adjusted itself to surviving outside of captivity. With Baby Pokemon, there's really no reason to say much about their use in the competitive scene since you pretty much want to evolve them as soon as possible, but I wonder if you had a tournament with all the Baby Pokemon, who would win? Elekid always struck me as probably being the strongest for some reason.
Electabuzz was a fairly natural looking Pokemon, but with a fantastical element to it, and Elekid pushes the electric motif further, pretty much losing any element you could liken to a tiger except for its stripes, which are more simplistic looking and less elaborate. Elekid still has the oni element to it, with the stripes, the "horns", and I think the shape of its arms were possibly meant to invoke the thick clubs oni are usually depicted with, but I think it too takes a backseat to the electricity motif. To put it simply, Elekid is basically a walking power plug, and that's pretty cute, although I feel it's indicative of the overall aesthetic that Pokemon moved towards after Generation I, where the natural elements that were once often in the forefront slowly began to be exchanged in favor of Pokemon having secondary motifs representing an object, idea, or theme. Some people like this, I do like Pokemon who have an extra element to them usually that rewards those who look past simply what animal they're based on, but I can also understand how these motifs are sometimes implemented in a clunky fashion, and may distract from the sense of realism and make the Pokemon look obviously artificial and something you couldn't imagine existing in the real world. I think it's fair to say compared to Electabuzz, Elekid is greatly exaggerated, and has a far more cartoony vibe to it, and that may put some folks off. Out of all the Generation II Baby Pokemon, I also think it's the one with the biggest difference in terms of design compared to its evolution.
The PokeDex says that Elekid loves to spin its arms to generate electricity, but what it does with the electricity seems to cause some confusion for the PokeDex, as one entry says it stores the electricity it builds up, but another says that, unlike Electabuzz, it can't store the energy it produces. Overall, Elekid's control of electricity seems much more juvenile compared to Electabuzz, as it gets tired easily trying to build its energy up and seems to lack control, accidentally discharging all of its electricity if it happens to touch a metallic object. I think there's a nice connection between Electabuzz and Elekid in the PokeDex that shows how the latter grows up upon evolution, and it helps make the Baby feel more justified for existing thanks to having a clear difference from its evolution and not just being it, but smaller. Overall I'm glad they made Elekid, as I think it helped Electabuzz feel even tougher thanks to having a weaker Pokemon it evolved from rather than being a standalone Pokemon with dubious strength.
Elekid was a Generation II preview Pokemon, first making a small cameo in the show where Tracey noticed it during an episode and sketched its trademark head, and later appeared in full in Pikachu's Rescue Adventure. His debut episode in the actual show was also the first episode that used digital animation, although at first it was honestly pretty ugly and I don't feel it was really till the end of Hoenn that the animators actually got used to it. Elekid's most important role was under the ownership of Paul in Diamond and Pearl, the first Pokemon we saw him with, and tied with Pikachu in its debut! Elekid's relationship to Paul was never fully explained, at first people thought it was his Pikachu, his Starter, but later it was shown he started out with the Diamond and Pearl Grass Starter. Still, Paul was shown to be a trainer like Ash who had made his way through a variety of Regions, and had a solid host of reserve Pokemon waiting in the ranks who he didn't hesitate to use as the show went on, so most assume Elekid had been with him for a relatively decent time and had more power than the usual Elekid. Unlike Pikachu, though, Elekid had no reservations about evolution and evolved during a tournament where Ash and Paul teamed up.
#466 - Electivire
Electric
Electivire is the Generation IV evolution of Electabuzz when it's traded with the Electirizer. Electivire was one of the first new evolutions revealed to be in Diamond and Pearl, popping up in a trailer of the games posted rather suddenly to a Japanese website without much fanfare, and leaving the actual nature of Electivire up to speculation. However, by that point we knew Generation IV would be following Generation II's example in having multiple Baby and Evolutions related to classic Pokemon, so everyone easily guessed it was Electabuzz's new evolution which was later confirmed in CoroCoro. Electivire gains a decent stat boost over Electabuzz, oddly switching over to a physical attacker more so despites its move set being almost exclusively Special-based, but loses some Speed in exchange. However its ability, Motor Drive, allows it to increase its speed when hit by an Electric-type attack, so with proper set-up, it could easily out speed Electabuzz. Despite being advertised for Diamond and Pearl, the Pokemon was virtually unavailable in the game unless you had a copy of Fire Red, which when placed into the DS' GBA slot caused Electabuzz to appear in certain areas, or obtained a special one given out in Pokemon Battle Revolution, but Platinum fixed this by making it present during the main adventure in a more expanded role. Electivire was rather powerful and useful when he debuted in Generation IV, having better stats than Electabuzz overall while also keeping his very diverse move set, however despite its appearance it is still quite frail, and thus goes down a bit easier though it can certainly cause some damage if it gets going.
Electivire is another Generation IV design that's a bit controversial among the fandom, but seems to enjoy more popularity than Rhyperior, and overall doesn't seem to be viewed in too bad of a light and with the introduction of the very love-it-or-hate-it Mega Evolutions, it probably looks pretty good in comparison. I'm really not sure what they were going for with Electivire in terms of design, although it carries the electricity motif well-enough, and I feel it shares more similarities with Elekid's design and motif than it does Electabuzz's. As a member on here pointed out, the line's design comes full circle with Electivire having a plug design on its back that's just the right size to stick Elekid's head into. Most of the Generation IV evolutions have rather simple and straight-to-the-point lore in their PokeDex entries, and all we really know about Electivire is that it's a really bull-headed Pokemon who charges straight into the foe and uses its wire-like "tails" to discharge 20,000 volts of power directly into the opponent. I gotta say, this is a pretty cool power, and I see it as the culmination of all the electricity Elekid and Electabuzz store up throughout their evolution, finally being released at full power upon reaching their final form. The idea of Electivire being very reckless in how it charges down the foe may also be in part due to the fact the Physical-version of Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, was introduced alongside it in CoroCoro if I recall correctly, and it's one of the few Pokemon who were capable of learning it naturally in Generation IV, although almost every fully-evolved Pokemon, or who were at one point fully-evolved including Electabuzz, can learn it through TM.
Electabuzz always struck me as a primate-like creature, and Electivire definitely has that going on, looking like a giant electrical gorilla, and when it was first revealed, I remember everyone thinking it looked like a yeti and wondering if it was part-Ice because of this. It doesn't really look much like a tiger at this point, or really an oni anymore, and like Rhyperior its design, with the "hard hat" and stripe down its middle which kind of gives it the impression of a wearing a jumpsuit, seems to invoke an electrical worker dressed in protective gear. It's a Pokemon I really don't know if I consider it a miss, or a hit, but I think I ultimately feel it's a bit weaker than Electabuzz overall and like Scizor, tries to look a bit too cool while losing the nice simplicity of its prior form. I also remember people comparing the shape of its head to classic Eggman, and I really can't unsee that now. I also don't like the goofy little nostrils it has, and the wires would've probably been better if they were solid black instead of having the little red lipsticks at the end, much like Tangrowth's arms having the red thrown on over its fingers.
Electivire's debut in the show was absolutely awesome, with Gary showing up at the end of the Battle Frontier after being absent for years, and using one to deliver a powerful smack down to Ash. It really came out of nowhere, and I remember seeing the first trailer that showed he was coming back and getting hyped. It seemed having Electivire serve as a rival to Ash was a popular idea with the writers, because they repeated it next season with Paul using the Electabuzz line, culminating in him gaining an Electivire which was his final Pokemon in the Sinnoh League when battling Ash to settle things once and for all. Rather than Pikachu, though, Electivire was paired up against Ash's Infernape, who was formerly owned by Paul and one of the best running plots throughout Diamond and Pearl, settling things in an awesome battle that was full of visual flair and seemed like something straight out of Dragonball Z. So yeah, this is a pretty cool and iconic Pokemon for fans of the show.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Elekid is really cute.
If Electivire had "normal" eyes like Elekid and Buzz, he'd look nicer. I don't really mind his design at all, but his eyes are a little weird coming from two previous Pokemon with angry anime eyes.
I can't wait for the Boober write up coming next. Hopefully he's the butt of a lot of jokes.
If Electivire had "normal" eyes like Elekid and Buzz, he'd look nicer. I don't really mind his design at all, but his eyes are a little weird coming from two previous Pokemon with angry anime eyes.
I can't wait for the Boober write up coming next. Hopefully he's the butt of a lot of jokes.
Benzychenz
Member
One of my favourite lines. Absolutely love all three of them, and used them in White 2 where they were a powerhouse in my team.
Nocturnowl
Member
If there was ever an argument for me sticking with Red version it was that alongside Primeape, Scyther and Electabuzz were childhood favourites of mine.
All three of them being red version exclusives.
Typically when I'd run through Red/Fire Red in later years I didn't experiment too much, I usually stuck with what I dubbed my Kanto team
- Charizard (mainly because Charmeleon was another fave of mine)
- Primeape
- Sycther
- Electabuzz
- Hypno
- Cloyster
And in a way this is still my nostalgic glee team.
All that said I've cooled off on Electabuzz over the years, I used to dislike Electivire for messing with the Buzz but these days I think I prefer the hairy Gen 4 evo, Electabuzz may have dropped from my Gen 1 faves but its evo is at least one of my Gen 4/Sinnoh mons.
Going back to Scyther, that's another one I'm not as strong on as I used to be though I'm not sure why, it's a scything ninja mantis after all! If I tackled Red version again going for a fave six of Kanto I wonder how different it would be for me now? (though i'm sure Primeape, Hypno and Cloyster would remain)
I do like that Scizor never really stole Scyther's thunder but then the mega evo came along and well, I suppose ol' blade arms feels like the odd one out of that pair now.
All three of them being red version exclusives.
Typically when I'd run through Red/Fire Red in later years I didn't experiment too much, I usually stuck with what I dubbed my Kanto team
- Charizard (mainly because Charmeleon was another fave of mine)
- Primeape
- Sycther
- Electabuzz
- Hypno
- Cloyster
And in a way this is still my nostalgic glee team.
All that said I've cooled off on Electabuzz over the years, I used to dislike Electivire for messing with the Buzz but these days I think I prefer the hairy Gen 4 evo, Electabuzz may have dropped from my Gen 1 faves but its evo is at least one of my Gen 4/Sinnoh mons.
Going back to Scyther, that's another one I'm not as strong on as I used to be though I'm not sure why, it's a scything ninja mantis after all! If I tackled Red version again going for a fave six of Kanto I wonder how different it would be for me now? (though i'm sure Primeape, Hypno and Cloyster would remain)
I do like that Scizor never really stole Scyther's thunder but then the mega evo came along and well, I suppose ol' blade arms feels like the odd one out of that pair now.
Waluigilicious
Member
Hey watch da birdie since you're putting in all this effort and you're going through all the pokemon, I'd love to see how your version of a national dex that includes all 721 pokemon will look! Any chance you'll attempt something like this?
Ally of Justice
Member
Elekid always stuck to me as a weird pre-evolution, in terms of design at least.
I love the electric plug head, but its evolution to Electabuzz it's the most "radical" of the bunch. Both Magby and Smoochum share the same body type as their evolutions, in a way just being "underdeveloped" forms of their evolutions. Smoochum to Jynx looks like she got bigger and Magby is just a small Magmar.
Elekid, however, has a completely different body type than Electabuzz and the change in their heads, while sharing a common theme, are completely different.
Don't get me wrong, I really like them, but that's one of the Gen I and II Pokemon that don't seem as natural as the others, at least in terms of evolution.
I love the electric plug head, but its evolution to Electabuzz it's the most "radical" of the bunch. Both Magby and Smoochum share the same body type as their evolutions, in a way just being "underdeveloped" forms of their evolutions. Smoochum to Jynx looks like she got bigger and Magby is just a small Magmar.
Elekid, however, has a completely different body type than Electabuzz and the change in their heads, while sharing a common theme, are completely different.
Don't get me wrong, I really like them, but that's one of the Gen I and II Pokemon that don't seem as natural as the others, at least in terms of evolution.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Goddamnit
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
#126 - Magmar
Fire
Red kids got Electabuzz, Blue kids got...Magmar. Electabuzz and Magmar were introduced as Version Exclusive Pokemon and were unique in that while most Version Exclusives occupied the same area, Electabuzz lived in the Power Plant while Magmar made its home in Pokemon Mansion. The two of them have been close counterparts since, both receiving Baby Pokemon in Generation II and both receiving Evolutions in Generation IV. That being said, it's only a matter of time before one of them gets a Mega Evolution while the other one is left in the dust, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's Electabuzz. Magmar's always been sort of in Electabuzz's shadow, its design considered pretty unappealing in general, and lacking the uniqueness of Electabuzz. In Generation I, Electabuzz was one of the more powerful Electric-type Pokemon, establishing a decent niche of its own, whereas Magmar had a ton of competition with fellow Fire Pokemon such as Charizard and Arcanine, and arguably was the weakest Generation I Fire Pokemon. Furthermore, Electabuzz has more popularity across the various media, getting way more appearances than Magmar does, and both its Baby and Evolution were pre-release Pokemon for their respective Generation, whereas Magmar's new forms weren't known about till the games were released and thus didn't experience the same hype, rather being seen as merely included to serve as foils to the Electabuzz line. It didn't help that the Generation Magmar got his new evolution also happened to be the birth of Stealth Rock.
As far as Generation I Pokemon go, Magmar is a pretty off-the-wall design, and I think there's a lot of things working against him. For one, well, it doesn't help that one of the first things you'll notice about Magmar is that he basically has the same tail as Charizard, which does not work to his advantage. Pretty much everyone on Earth learned about Charizard before they learned about Magmar, being one of the most iconic Pokemon, so Magmar almost looks like he's copying Charizard attempting to borrow some of his popularity, but it doesn't really work for him. Two, he seems to be designed to be somewhat ugly on purpose and unappealing, with a butt-shaped head, a rather clunky body with a lot of extra lines added that are perhaps not needed, and he's quite elaborate for a Generation I Pokemon, especially the weird metallic choker and ankle-bracelets which feels like something more fitting on a Pokemon from a later Generation. Perhaps you could even say Magmar, from an aesthetic standpoint, is one of the lesser Generation I Pokemon, lacking the simplicity that seems to be one of the main reasons people praise Generation I. Now, as you know by now, I actually like these weirder Pokemon, and Magmar has grown on me, but it doesn't surprise me he has a bit of an image problem, only made more apparent by his Generation IV evolution which quite frequently makes the "ugliest Pokemon ever!" lists.
Now, pray tell, what exactly is Magmar supposed to be? Electabuzz was pretty vague, but Magmar takes this to a new level. On first guess, most likely see him resembling a duck...he's got the duck-beak, and while he doesn't quite look like any real duck he doesn't seem any odder than Psyduck and Golduck who could be called ducks in-name-only, while others point to his original name, Boober, which brings to mind the akwardly-named booby. Oh, and learning his Japanese name really gives you a different impression of those lumps on his head, if you know what I mean. He also has elements of a reptile, with his long tail, scaly arms, and spikes, and might be a take on the mythical salamander, a creature resembling the real-world animal that was said to be born from fire, like how Magmar is said to have been born within a volcano, and has control over fire as well. Finally, considering he's paired-up with a Pokemon that draws inspiration from Japanese culture, Magmar is also likened to the Karura, a Japanese Hindu-Buddhist mythological creature that draws from the the legendary Garuda, and is said to have a bird's head on a human's body that's capable of breathing fire, much like Magmar. I don't really know if I think any one of these answers has more support than the other, and really perhaps Game Freak just wanted one more Fire-type Pokemon, and used a bunch of drawings they had lying around to create this weird hybrid creature? While Pokemon is of course "Pocket Monsters", I think there's a psychological need to be able to compare Pokemon to recognizable animals and objects, and sometimes Pokemon who go beyond comparison can aesthetically bother the viewer, much like how humans in general tend to like mammalian creatures similar to themselves over the more unorthodox, invertebrates. For some reason though, Magmar's Pokemon Stadium model also reminded me of Elvis Presley due to how its flames bounced around like hair, and its intro pose where it seemed to dance around.
Magmar's basically THE lava Pokemon, so I guess he's meant to be far hotter than the other Fire-type Pokemon introduced in Generation I? Some say Magmar was born within a volcano, and they possibly might be lava given sentience perhaps, as they're capable of healing their wounds by taking a dip in lava which might be them regenerating their body by absorbing the matter they were originally created from. Magmar's body temperature is incredibly hot as well, said to be 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit, which I believe is basically the max temperature lava can reach so, yeah, getting anywhere near Magmar should technically melt you. There's actually a special cube NASA has created that rockets use that through so-and-so science can be heated to 2,200 degrees yet due to their unique composition, are completely cool to the touch---perhaps Magmar has this same mechanic in play that keeps its heat from leaking out entirely and causing everything around it to melt into complete nothing?
Blaine's Magmar. That's all I need to say when talking about Magmar in the show, and perhaps all I can say, as it never really had a huge role like that ever again.
#240 - Magby
Fire
Magby is the Baby of Electabuzz, the counterpart to Elekid. Like Magmar, it suffers from being overshadowed by its counterpart, and in general I think it's one of the least memorable Baby Pokemon there is, although I do think Magmar needed a Baby since it felt like an evolved Pokemon. I guess this might work against the idea though that Magmar was literally born from lava, although I guess Generation II's breeding system ruined any Pokemon said to be born in a unique way.
I don't have much to say about Magby. While I do have some misgiving about how Elekid changed Electabuzz up to feel a bit more "artificial", I can at least say Elekid was a clever utilization of the Baby from to do something cute with the idea of how Electric-type Pokemon would change throughout evolution, and the plug-head was a unique idea that I'm glad they ended up doing. Magby, on the other hand, is basically "Baby Magmar", and that's it. Now, it does tie into Magmar's lore as while Magmar is said to be 2,200 degrees, Magby is only a laughable 1,100 degrees (that's sarcasm) and its body doesn't seem to be as inflamed, unlike Magmar who has a fiery head, Magby instead has a little afro meant to represent the smoke before the volcano explodes, which is a nice visual motif to build up through the evolution, but not as eyecatching as Elekid's head. I really don't like talking about Baby Pokemon because usually Game Freak doesn't give me much to work with, although I think some of the Generation IV Baby Pokemon are fairly more interesting in comparison as we've seen with Happiny. The one positive about Magby, though, is that it's ugly-cute, rather than just ugly, and in a way I think Magmar having such a Baby works to his advantage because it gives his design a softer side to it, as you can see that he was once a child just like us, and before you insult his looks, remember, that's someone's child you're talking about.
Magby was one of the last Johto Pokemon to get a focus episode in the show right before the Johto League, and I don't remember anything about the episode except that it highlighted an issue with Ash's Johto team...they were all unevolved, rather weak Pokemon, and were likely going to get absolutely creamed in the Johto League. Even though at the end Ash believes they'll win as long as they have heart, the Johto Pokemon were all pretty much pushed aside in the Johto League anyway in favor of Ash's reserves, and then basically forgotten about for the duration of the show so, yeah, probably should've evolved them Ash!
#467 - Magmortar
Fire
W-what have you done Game Freak? What have you created? Magmortar is the evolution of Magmar through the use of the Magmarizer, and like Electivire his role in Diamond and Pearl, his debut, was rather small and required the player to own a Leaf Green cartridge to obtain the family within Sinnoh, later playing an expanded role in Platinum. Magmortar is a lot like Electivire, trading his speed like he did, except in favor of becoming a special-based Pokemon as opposed to a physically-based one, meaning in theory he might be a bit better than Electivire since his stat boost fits better with his Type and move set. Unfortunately, Magmortar has always been rather unremarkable it seems, Fire being a death-sentence in Generation IV of course, and having rather lame Abilities (burning the foe is okay, but not being put to sleep as his Hidden Ability?) didn't work in his favor, and his one niche is a powerful Thunderbolt to take down the Water-type Pokemon which plague his Fire-brethren. But yeah, Electivire ultimately won out in basically every way.
Magmar was always pretty ugly, but Magmortar takes it to the next level. I know "it was supposed to be ugly!" isn't a great defense for a Pokemon, because a Pokemon can give off an ugly impression yet still be artistically well-drawn, which I don't think Magmortar qualifies as, but I really think the man who created it, apparently Hironobu Yoshida, was specifically tasked by Game Freak to create the most aesthetically displeasing creature he could think of. When I first saw Magmortar, I was speechless---but honestly the more I looked at the Pokemon, I have to say, I legitimately like it. It's so over the top, it's funny, and Pokemon has so many creatures that honestly them taking the piss with a design, especially one that was never really a classic design in the first place, doesn't make me mad whatsoever. It's like they made sure to ruin how this Pokemon looked at every step, taking Magmar's already segmented body and making its legs an entirely different color to make that more obvious, a bright pink at that, and giving it a face that looks a bit too close to Jynx's old look for my taste sometimes, but seems more to invoke the idea of giving big lips to overweight characters in Japanese media, rather than specifically referencing black face. Oh, and I guess it's a literal "duck face". The only part about Magmortar I think is objectively better is changing the "butthead" look to a single fire-ball looks kind of nice, and imagining that on the original Magmar seems like it'd look rather good. But yeah, everything about this Pokemon is a mess, and it looks like a bizarre Mega Man boss that never was.
I gotta love the escalation present in the Magmar line, going from the Live Coal 1,100 degrees Magby, to the Spitfire 2,200 degrees Magmar, and finishing off with Magmortar the Blaster Pokemon, capable of firing white-hot 3'600 degrees fireballs from an arm cannon. With Rhyperior, I thought the arm cannon was a neat idea, but seemed really odd for the Rhyhorn line to suddenly have, and would've been better on an original Pokemon. With Magmortar, however, I feel the arm cannon actually works, being the one part of the design that's pretty cool, and doesn't seem that much of a stretch for a group of Pokemon that have always been known for their crazy hot temperatures to suddenly gain upon evolution. Magmortar's Platinum sprite, with the arm cannon pointed right at the foe and wearing mischievous smirk, really turned me on to the Pokemon, and I think it looks pretty good in other depictions such as the show and TCG.
The Magmar line is actually another Pokemon shared by both Gary and Paul, Gary having a Magmar in the Johto League and Paul having a Magmar which evolved into a Magmortar as one of his reoccurring Pokemon, although it didn't take part in their League battle. Paul's Magmortar actually never lost---in Ash and Paul's first 6vs6 match, it managed to hold its own against Ash's Pikachu, and even managed to withstand Ash's Water-type Pokemon's attacks as well, poisoning it. The match ended with Ash utterly decimated, and Magmortar never actually fainted, and that was its last appearance fighting Ash so, yeah, dude was pretty powerful. It later popped up in the Sinnoh League fighting against Ash's other main rival during the series, Barry, where it also managed to wall his Pokemon too and was ultimately recalled while Paul's other Pokemon finished the match. This was part of the reason I grew to love Magmortar as well.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Magmar has a butt for a head.
We all noticed it as kids, don't lie.
It's a butt.
And not like those skunks in Diamond and Pearl. This one doesn't seem intended, but there it is.
We all noticed it as kids, don't lie.
It's a butt.
And not like those skunks in Diamond and Pearl. This one doesn't seem intended, but there it is.
Fuuuuck yeah Electabuzz, I love Electabuzz and I have fond memories of using Buu my Elekid in Pokémon Crystal. He later returned in Platinum and evolved fully into Electivire.
My only compliant is getting Electivire requires trading.
I have no opinion on the Magmar line, Charizard is the only fire Pokémon I need in my life.
My only compliant is getting Electivire requires trading.
I have no opinion on the Magmar line, Charizard is the only fire Pokémon I need in my life.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
So Smogon's been pretty helpful for me talking about the Pokemon in terms of competitiveness, but now they've been going on-and-off all day, and I'm seeing stuff on /vp/ claiming Showdown which they're affiliated with is in legal trouble.
Some are saying it's just a fake claim going around, but does anyone here know if this is legit? It'd suck if a good source like that which has been helpful when doing these write-ups is gonna disappear.
Some are saying it's just a fake claim going around, but does anyone here know if this is legit? It'd suck if a good source like that which has been helpful when doing these write-ups is gonna disappear.
Smogon twitter says it's just their webhosting.
I actually really like both Electivire and Magmortar. They are my favorite designs of their respective lines.
Magmortar looks like a Mega Man boss and owns it. When I first saw him and Electivire I knew I needed those, though I had no idea how to get them at first. Don't like that they weren't in the Sinnoh dex from the start. Also am not too fond of their evolution methods, but I dislike trade evolutions in general.
It was actually really exciting seeing all those evolutions to old Pokémon in Gen IV. That shit got me hyped. Mega evolutions just don't do the same thing for me. Hope Gen VII can give us some actual evos again.
Magmortar looks like a Mega Man boss and owns it. When I first saw him and Electivire I knew I needed those, though I had no idea how to get them at first. Don't like that they weren't in the Sinnoh dex from the start. Also am not too fond of their evolution methods, but I dislike trade evolutions in general.
It was actually really exciting seeing all those evolutions to old Pokémon in Gen IV. That shit got me hyped. Mega evolutions just don't do the same thing for me. Hope Gen VII can give us some actual evos again.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Butt head jokes aside, I never really had any problems with Magmar's line.
They're really goofy and bizarre looking Pokemon, but they end up kind of being charming.
One thing about Magmortar is his claws retract in when he's using his cannons, but it's not really something I caught until just recently. I just assumed it was a random inconsistency in his art, and he wasn't actually meant to retract his claws when firing.
Somewhere out there someone traded me on the GTS for a clearly hacked Magmortar with 1IVs in everything that my friend gave me because he messed up the values. I still have the Blissey I got for it lol, even though this was a few months after DP came out, so it was awhile ago.
They're really goofy and bizarre looking Pokemon, but they end up kind of being charming.
One thing about Magmortar is his claws retract in when he's using his cannons, but it's not really something I caught until just recently. I just assumed it was a random inconsistency in his art, and he wasn't actually meant to retract his claws when firing.
Somewhere out there someone traded me on the GTS for a clearly hacked Magmortar with 1IVs in everything that my friend gave me because he messed up the values. I still have the Blissey I got for it lol, even though this was a few months after DP came out, so it was awhile ago.
Nocturnowl
Member
Magmortar is dope as fuck, he's hideous, he knows it and I'm pretty sure he don't care, gonna melt faces with his blaster cannon, perform psychic with the powers of his once butt head.
Really the Magmar line just makes me think "grotesque lava monster" so props to them all, they're some of the pokemon that take being "ugly" and run with it, that ain't always a bad thing, gotta have some real monsters in there after all.
Really the Magmar line just makes me think "grotesque lava monster" so props to them all, they're some of the pokemon that take being "ugly" and run with it, that ain't always a bad thing, gotta have some real monsters in there after all.
I like they way you think, there are still lot's of gen II folks trapped in their shitty one stage hell.
Seven Force
Banned
I have a soft spot for Electivire. Gen IV was when I first started learning about competitive battling and all that goes into it, and the very first competitive Pokemon I trained was an Adamant Electivire with Cross Chop and Ice Punch bred onto it.
Not worth shit now, but I still look back on it fondly.
Not worth shit now, but I still look back on it fondly.
You'll get Mega Girafarig and like it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
haha Stantler.
"I want to be Normal/Psychic but another Pokemon stole that gimmick my gen so all I am is a deer"
I agree with most opinions here about Magmortar. It's so damn awful that it actually ends up being cool. I think the arm cannon sold me on him too.
Electivire is a badass. The wires and the head are really cool and intimidating IMO. I never really liked Electabuzz so he was a solid improvement.
Finally, Jynx... Uh, I don't like it much to be honest. I live in a country without much black people so I was very unfamiliar with the black face thing and probably only heard about it thanks to Jynx so I guess I got some lessons on racism thanks to Pokémon? Sensibilities are very different in every country, and although most people are familiar with USA's sensibilities thanks to TV/Movies, it's pretty easy for foreigners to create stuff that may offend someone from a different culture. I don't think GameFreak had any intent of racism when making that design, it was simply something that for their culture wasn't damaging. If I were to design a set of creatures/characters for a game, there's a high chance I could damage some sensibilities that I didn't think of. At least, they were "nice" enough to change the color scheme later. Still, I don't dislike Jynx because of black face. I dislike the design because it's weird. Shame it didn't get a Gen IV evolution as a chance of redemption.
Electivire is a badass. The wires and the head are really cool and intimidating IMO. I never really liked Electabuzz so he was a solid improvement.
Finally, Jynx... Uh, I don't like it much to be honest. I live in a country without much black people so I was very unfamiliar with the black face thing and probably only heard about it thanks to Jynx so I guess I got some lessons on racism thanks to Pokémon? Sensibilities are very different in every country, and although most people are familiar with USA's sensibilities thanks to TV/Movies, it's pretty easy for foreigners to create stuff that may offend someone from a different culture. I don't think GameFreak had any intent of racism when making that design, it was simply something that for their culture wasn't damaging. If I were to design a set of creatures/characters for a game, there's a high chance I could damage some sensibilities that I didn't think of. At least, they were "nice" enough to change the color scheme later. Still, I don't dislike Jynx because of black face. I dislike the design because it's weird. Shame it didn't get a Gen IV evolution as a chance of redemption.
Same, Mega are more geared towards competitive battle so as a result they don't feel like new Pokémon or traditional evolution and come off more as a form change.
I hope that Game Freak find room for both as I believe both can peacefully co-exist.
Stantler evolution will be Normal Water as he's a Raindeer. ;p
Anyway if Stantler gets a new evolution, I might be willing to use him.
