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[Defrop]

 

[Zones]

Expected, in the sense I believe many of the private studios that sold themselves to MS were doing it purely for the cash.

 

[Ellery]

Hope it is not true. Looked like a promising game I was looking forward to.

 

[Gameplaylover]

I don't care about rumors, i'm gonna rate the finished product. If it sucks, so be it. But i hope not.

 

[cormack12]

Hmm, not sure what that means - like they are moving onto better positions, worse positions, just quitting? Seems a little vague, hope it's not in trouble though because it looked like it was going to be decent. Few reddit posts seem to have this theme as well:

 

[reksveks]

Did Chris leave Obsidian on good terms?

 

[Umbasaborne]

I hope its okay. However, with bethesda and the elder scrolls on board, the chances are minimal that microsoft would put resources into saving this project if it goes tits up

 

[Great Hair]

I can already hear how the bald testicle over at Bloomberg is smashing the keys on the keyboard "I told you so! I was aware of dis ..!"

WTF is that shit?

My guess: a rare egg out of Chernobyl. Ever so wild ..

 

[Umbasaborne]

I can already hear how the bald testicle over at Bloomberg is smashing the keys on the keyboard.

ew

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Hobbygaming]

Expected, in the sense I believe many of the private studios that sold themselves to MS were doing it purely for the cash.

Either that or it's a sign that MS might have poor studio management. Drew Murray, from the Initiative, is already back with Sony at Insomniac Games

 

[Coloress_Kafka]

Elder Scrolls is a much bigger brand so I wouldn’t be shocked to hear Microsoft is moving anyone with RPG/Open World experience over to get it out sooner.

 

[AJUMP23]

I don't know that this mattes at all. No one knows if its true and losing leads may or mat not affect the games quality.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Hmm, not sure what that means - like they are moving onto better positions, worse positions, just quitting? Seems a little vague, hope it's not in trouble though because it looked like it was going to be decent. Few reddit posts seem to have this theme as well:

I would have thought Reddit would be able to recognize actual shit talking by now. Also, being the lead on Obsidian's new baby is about the best it's going to get at that company. No-one would leave that position unless they were leaving the company...or being forcibly removed from the position.

 

[Punished Miku]

Hopefully they lost the guy that decided it was a first person game.

 

[sublimit]

I can already hear how the bald testicle over at Bloomberg is smashing the keys on the keyboard.

WTF is that shit?

 

[Warnen]

Do you need Knock off Bethesda when you got the real one too?

 

[Gunslinger]

Cancel it and make Pillars of eternity 3.

 

[Black_Stride]

Anyone whose willing to do the LinkedIn homework

 

[reksveks]

Cancel it and make Pillars of eternity 3.

Josh Sawyer is seemingly working on his own project at Obsidian at the moment, assume really early days on that project.

 

[Heisenberg007]

This is surprising because Avowed was the game that Obsidian really wanted to make. So the content/game isn't the issue, unless Xbox/Phil/Booty has changed the direction of the game that most of the studio didn't envision or like.

Either way, a sad story. We could have got a great game if Avowed was left alone (may still be a great game, but very rarely a troubled development leads to a fantastic game).

 

[Black_Stride]

This is surprising because Avowed was the game that Obsidian really wanted to make. So the content/game isn't the issue, unless Xbox/Phil/Booty has changed the direction of the game that most of the studio didn't envision or like.

Either way, a sad story. We could have got a great game if Avowed was left alone (may still be a great game, but very rarely a troubled development leads to a fantastic game).

Could be from the whole some leads were sent to The Grounded team that they (MS) have seen Grounded gaining err....ground they want that project finished before go fullon with Avowed.
Those who quit might have felt their project is getting the shortend of the stick and dont want to be backburner developing.

Avowed seemed far out enough that it could make sense to shuffle things around till they could hit the game development full steam.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Chris Avellone is basically this

 

[Heisenberg007]

Anyone whose willing to do the LinkedIn homework

This honestly reeks of bad mannagement, if true.

Avowed was a dream project for many Obsidian employees. If they get shifted around or demoted, most employees would leave in that situation. Creative pursuit > money in game development industry.

 

[Interfectum]

Could be from the whole some leads were sent to The Grounded team that they (MS) have seen Grounded gaining err....ground they want that project finished before go fullon with Avowed.
Those who quit might have felt their project is getting the shortend of the stick and dont want to be backburner developing.

Avowed seemed far out enough that it could make sense to shuffle things around till they could hit the game development full steam.

There is no proof of MS meddling in any of the studios they bought, quite the opposite. This could be typical Obsidian mismanagement nonsense or over-exaggeration from Avellone.

 

[skit_data]

Too bad, one of the more interesting projects in XGS pipeline IMO

 

[BreakOut]

Do you need Knock off Bethesda when you got the real one too?

IMO Obsidian is so.. so.. far superior to Bethesda in every way.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Anyone whose willing to do the LinkedIn homework

Who were the leads? Surely we could scour their LinkedIn profiles and Twitter Accounts to see where they went. This wreaks of BS and only 1 person is talking about it.

 

[Punished Miku]

Who were the leads? Surely we could scour their LinkedIn profiles and Twitter Accounts to see where they went. This wreaks of BS and only 1 person is talking about it.

Might be BS, might not. Avellone obviously knows these people, so who knows.

 

[Warnen]

IMO Obsidian is so.. so.. far superior to Bethesda in every way.

 

[Bernkastel]

He regularly bitches about Obsidian on twitter, this is common knowledge.

Nov 11, 2018
So it's slightly worse than that. Forget BG.

The indications from Obs. is that Chris Parker is calling the shots for the next "AAA" project (his shallow take: "hey, I get to make Skyrim!"), so I'm already done even if ol' "hope my employees guess frame of mind today" Chris Parker's management style wastes countless dollars and time. (To his defense, he learned this shit-stained argument from Fergie McFerg who would change his mind on a daily basis and not tell anyone - but what I can't condone from Parker is how pig-eager he embraced it, and also, how he was the best person to... "realize" it. Cue sad trombones - all of them, everywhere.)

Nov 11, 2018
...
... but then again, Obs. also had a marketing dept. that didn't hit the expected numbers, either (to be clear, while it's easy to blame Paradox for Pillars and Tyranny, I had a chance to speak with the marketing devs at PDX about both titles, and both mentioned that Obs. was the one guiding those products in terms of marketing - Obs. was the one in charge, they were the ones making the trailers, the game box covers, etc. and PDX was there to facilitate that to the point where the PDX people I spoke to had surrendered to the developer, so I feel it's wrong to blame them vs. the process they had to surrender to).

Also, when PoE2 didn't hit the hoped-for numbers, Obs. did terminate their head of marketing as a result (this isn't drama, it was a pre-existing goal set into the hiring contract, as I understand it).

And, to give Techland a nod, the story trailer for Numenera I thought was pretty great for condensing a lot of not-so-easy-to-condense ideas into something interesting for a gamer.

But in terms of going their own way, Obsidian vs. marketing at other companies, though, Obsidian's (and esp. Chris Parker's) approach has always been, "we know better than you":

Even for the GDC reveal for Tyranny, Obsidian chose to go their own way in promoting the product (for good or ill) which obviously wasn't part of the PDX line-up aesthetic, you can feel the disconnect when you watch the videos of it... Obsidian felt they should market the game's announcement differently, and chose to take it into their own hands. I thought it was jarring in terms of watching the line-up from start to finish, but if you take it by itself, it's not bad... but the problem? The audience didn't perceive it as its own thing.

Localization: You need to respect the rest of the world.

Localization on PoE2 was pretty bad, for sure, but I think even the game's localizers indicated the challenges with that on the Obsidian forums (you can't localize properly when you get an XML text dump of verbs and nouns from the game that are intended to be stitched together).

Nov 8, 2018

Sawyer didn't "latch on" to the game, he was latched onto it by Feargus Urquhart after he'd already said he was burned out and didn't want to work on a game for a while

This is the most plausible and likely scenario - I seriously doubt Josh would want an EP position. The situation is far more likely, "I have an expensive director (who is worth that salary, that's not the point) and it would be convenient for someone else to pay for him (which is more the point)."

This occurred when hiring for Skyforge - Obsidian was happy to hire employees for Skyforge because the publisher was paying all the bills for them, for example. The problem becomes what do you do when Skyforge goes away.

But back to the EP role on Indiana, I don't think Rich Taylor requested his role, either (he was a PD coming off Armored Warfare, so he had to be put somewhere, and he was worth keeping on for sure).

Still, both are expensive (and deservedly so) and it's easier to have Take-Two pay for an expensive employee that can be conveniently assigned to an EP position - I just question the position itself.

Admittedly, I'm biased b/c I always thought Obsidian had too many producers and not enough of the right ones (Adler, Singh), and it's a very production-heavy company (even at the owner level).

From all I've heard, though, Josh isn't doing production stuff, he's helping designers finish off remaining design tasks, which is a Senior Designer role - but I expect you can't charge as much for that (or you really have to argue it).

I would question if Ferg told Private Division Josh would be off the books for a month when Josh was put on the project, though - but I'm sure Josh, Tim, or Leonard would be quick to correct that missing info if Take-Two didn't know.

Nov 7, 2018

Their tweet also calls Obsidian the best RPG studio in the world.

Sadly, twitter doesn't have a citation needed button.

I think PCGamesN is solidly in Obs.'s court, so not surprising. And that's not a slam, just a nod.

Nov 6, 2018

It was fools errand if they were hoping to beat the reviews of the first game - Metacritic aggregate for Pillars 1 is quite clearly inflated. Similar to most of the first-wave Kickstarter projects. I'm guessing reviewers didn't want to be too hypercritical towards a new phenomenon that was transforming the industry. But once the second-wave games started coming out, the gloves came off.

I don't know if was a fools errand: Obs. may have looked in the jump in score between Original Sin and Original Sin II and concluded, "we can do that." Other design decisions (Voice over) were clearly done in that context, and the owners were involved in that decision as well.

I do agree that crowdsourcing exhaustion/wariness ("well, we don't want to be too critical of the underdogs") may have dimmed the scores once the shininess wore off.

Nov 6, 2018

Chris Avellone , based on your knowledge of Obsidian, its management, and game production in general, do you see signs of Deadfire not meeting expectations, and what expectations do you imagine had been set for it?

...First, there was a hope it would hit certain numbers, because the Director (?) of Marketing’s role at the company was based on Deadfire hitting those hoped-for numbers (this sales number was pre-established, as I understand it).

When Deadfire didn’t hit those numbers, his employment was ended not long after.

(I don’t think there was any drama in this because the sales target was understood going in, and I've spoken to him since re: other projects. Also, I don't know how much Versus Evil's and Fig's marketing pushes really helped, so he may have been hobbled from the outset.)

I'm a little biased on VE and Fig b/c I don't think VE did much do get Banner Saga 2's awareness up, for example, and even companies working with Fig have criticized how much the platform helps with awareness (esp. vs. Kickstarter awareness).

But the crux of your question: I don’t know what those exact hoped-for Deadfire numbers were, but the hope was there or else an expectation wouldn’t have been set.

If I were to guess, the hope was that Deadfire would perform at least as well as BG2 as compared to BG1’s sales, and critically as well. I don’t think the Steam leaked sales numbers were very good for the first few months of sales (and I'm not sure of this, but if it was based on those who "owned" it, then some of those sales had already happened in the crowdsourcing campaign, and then you have to take into account how much Obsidian put into the title outside of the campaign, etc, etc.).

So in short: I’d imagine the hope was DF would sell more than PoE in a ratio of sales comparable to BG2:BG1, have a higher Metacritic and Steam score (it came close to the original PoE's score with Metacritic, and Steam reviews aren’t bad) to about +5% for both scales...

Nov 5, 2018

Wait a minute - as opposed to what? Where did the royalties go in NWN2's case? I've assumed all along that royalties went to the company, not to individual people. Since the company was owned by its upper management, logically the money would become available to them. Isn't that completely normal and expected?

Anyway, this might help explain how Obsidian was able to survive all these years. In retrospect, the "never got any royalties ever except for NWN2" narrative never made that much sense.

No, what you said makes sense, but it's not what I said: it didn't go to the company - it went to upper management, personally. It didn't go into the company's "bank account" (which would have been great) and it also didn't go to employees (which would have been nice for people who worked on the projects).

What you're saying is normal and expected, and would make sense.

Nov 5, 2018
I do think whoever's brilliant decision it was to create a questionable production role at an already-production-heavy company and then put your Design Director on it (who's supposed to be overseeing all games at the studio, not being an EP on one) is likely thinking about something other than what's best for the role and might also be overdoing it when it comes to production (for the cost of an EP, most projects would gladly take more QA, 1-2 more programmers, etc.)

An EP feels redundant compared to a Lead Producer, if the two exist (last I checked, they do).

What happened to Josh, though, happened to me: Feargus assigns Directors (Technical, Design, etc.) to projects so he can bill the publishers for the Director’s time vs. pay for it himself. However, half that Directors time is likely spent in non-project meetings, if they're not already on other projects and being billed there as well. :/

Now, that’s not bad business, but again, when your role is Design Director of the company, you’re supposed to be overseeing all the projects at the company, not just one.

When it happened to me, it definitely created challenges to being able to spend time on other projects (but at the same time, at least having a title gave work some definition, so it wasn't all bad).

Anyway, the EP position just feels like production bullshit to me and an excuse to draw more blood from the publisher.

Nov 5, 2018

Oh, I didn't know Obsidian got royalties with KOTOR2. I thought that before PoE, they only got royalties from NWN2.

Most people didn't, Feargus mandated that royalties (from any game) would only be dispersed amongst upper management, in %s according to ownership in company (which meant Chris Jones and I didn't see much, but the other three did).

As a result, not many people knew we were getting royalties at all because they'd never see any sign of it.

In the initial projections for PoE1, they were planning the same %s when royalties came in as well. This may have changed since, but that was the pattern for the years I was there.

Nov 5, 2018
...
Without BioWare, Fallout would have been the only other claim to fame in the first few years (Black Isle couldn't make engines to save our lives, frankly, and we spent a lot of money and time trying to no effect: Stonekeep 2, for example, or trying to license other engines like Lithtech for TORN).

Even though the Infinity Engine games made money, Lionheart, Planescape: Doomguard, TORN, BG3, Van Buren, and Stonekeep 2 didn't (if they shipped at all). While some of these didn't have a high cost, some did (esp. TORN and SK2).

EDIT: Also Planescape: Torment didn't do bad, but it didn't do great, either, I wouldn't necessarily count that as a financial win for the studio as much as "well, it helped us tread water for a while."
...

While I think BIS deserves credit for some of the Infinity Engine games, without BioWare's engine, I don't think it would have lasted as long or gained the reputation it did (and Fargo is to be thanked for securing the D&D license, not Black Isle, since Black Isle didn't exist back then - it was Dragonplay).

* My opinion was Fallout 1 arguably wasn't BIS, it had been its own thing for a while, and even at the start of Fallout 2, they were considering branching Leonard, Jason, and Tim into their own sub-division within BIS so Tim could work more freely, but that didn't happen.

Nov 5, 2018
You're right, it’s not the same thing - "shameful" refers to bugs on release.

In both FNV and PoE2, all parties were aware enough bugs were present to compromise the quality of the game (same with KOTOR2, but the internal mandate was "ship it anyway" - the owners didn't want to lose royalties from missing the target date and they figured we'd "get it right next time").

Over time, whatever royalties came in from KOTOR2 didn't make up for the quality of release (which I've taken responsibility for on the design side). I'd rather we suffered some financial hardship (within reason) and released something better for the studio's first product. Because we didn't, I think that became a habit over time.

A PD can have some control over a game’s release (and delays, say, by adding features), but rarely 100%.

As you go farther down the hierarchy ladder, that control over release quickly becomes non-existent unless you find a crash bug or cannot-progress A bug (which will stop a game's release, if only for a day or two until fixed).

Nov 2, 2018
As an example, if you load of PoE2 and notice it’s not reacting to what Eder did in your party PoE1 (or other choices you made after spending 40-100-200 hrs playing the first game), that may not technically be gamebreaking, but if you care about the narrative, it’s serious, and I wouldn’t play any farther once I noticed that and wait for a fix (or refund, if it's within the Steam refund time frame).

The reason is simple – the game didn’t crash, sure, but I couldn't be sure what content I might be missing based on that early error, even if the game was technically working fine in all other respects.

BTW, that latter example is a perfect thing QA can miss, especially newcomers to the title or ones that didn't have a chance to play PoE1 to notice a disconnect. (Developers are more likely to notice bugs like that, if they have the time or inclination to play the game.)

Nov 1, 2018
I still think the game will be good, it's the upper management hijinks that make me roll my eyes (and don't get me wrong, I thought having Rich Taylor on the project was great).

I said as much before so I don't know if this is a change of opinion, but I do think Tim and Leonard would be happier at some place else where the tides of management make more sense (and are more respectful of the team and the process, which I don't think is the case right now).

Oct 31, 2018

As far as we know he left for Blizzard on his own. Are there anyone else who could have replaced him?

Did an Exec Producer... who is somehow different from a Lead Producer, unless incompetent, in which case, you should fire the Lead Producer... need to be replaced?

I'd say no. It's a bullshit position designed to generate income from a publisher, I see no value in it. But okay, Obsidian, good one. Applause.

I have heard of new Exec Producer positions at Obsidian, and it simply reinforces the harm the position causes/will cause. I mean - would you really want Chris Parker as Exec. Producer on your project? I say nay, and I say it with confidence.

Oct 31, 2018
Well, in an added bit of hilarity (which I learned from an upper management stupid admission while they were complaining about their own decision putting them out - sorry, dummies, maybe you should manage?) Josh is now the Exec. Producer (what) on Tim and Leonard's project, replacing Rich Taylor (nooooo, he was good whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy).

But (and here's the 2nd kicker), Josh started his EP'ing off by F'ing off a month off to go do talks elsewhere, so... why does this position exist again? Does the Lead Producer do nothing?

Tim... Leonard... leave already. Reitre. Both. They don't deserve you.

Note I don't blame Josh so much for having a vacation, as it was likely his vacation he had in place once Pillars 2 had shipped (and I don't think Rich's resignation was planned for at all)... BUT, if you are Exec. Producer on a game that may be on its final stages, going on extended vanishing vacation = nope.

(Apparently, the amount of attention Josh gave to the project on his first week was pretty dismal, though, so it may for the best. It even got to the point upper management got complaints - as was relayed to me, the Leads called Josh out on his behavior, which I would have loved to have seen - esp. if Leonard was involved in the raking-across-the-coals.)

I do blame whoever thought it was fucking brilliant to make Josh an Executive Producer when a Design Director should already have enough to do... but whatever, I can guess why: a Design Director you can't charge Take-Two for, but an Executive Producer you can charge Take-Two for to offset your new house costs.

God, what garbage. I hope Take-Two knows Josh is gone for a month when you send them the "budgets", Feargus.

Oct 28, 2018
...
Me being forced out = While they still wanted me to work on Tyranny and made me an offer to do so, I'm sure that was a reluctant offer (and Obsidian hadn't been doing much to support Tyranny anyway) to appease Paradox, justify some costs, and also minimize bad press (since I'd still be "working" for them) - as such, the "forced out" I'd argue still holds water.

Oct 24, 2018
...
Yeah, I think there were Tweets around that time from Darren Monahan (@darrenmonahan) and Chris Parker (@Parker_CPaul) begging him to come back to Obsidian (jokingly, but any studio's lucky to have Jon). He was great to work with on the DLCs.

When I was doing the Microsoft thing at E3, I got a chance to chat with Todd Howard - and Todd even asked how Jon was doing, specifically (they liked working with him, too).

Sep 30, 2018
Justin is one of the favorites, likely because Ferg hand chose him to come on board. Ferg raised him up from junior, and I think he was a textbook case of Ferg trying to train a producer to do everything exactly the way Ferg wanted from start to finish.

I’ve never worked directly with him, so I don’t know if he’s a good producer or not, though (I don’t mean that as a slam, I honestly don’t know).

I have worked with Brandon, though, and I think Brandon’s a good producer, so I was happy to hear he was leading the charge on the POE2 DLCs.

Jul 30, 2018
It wouldn’t make much financial sense for Josh to leave for a year after PoE2’s release anyway: Any % of financial compensation Ferg gives him from Pillars would most likely be tied to him remaining working at the company, so he’d want to wait a few financial quarters and cool his heels until after, say, a Complete Pillars edition when the numbers are likely maximized and only then seriously consider departing (I don’t know about any financial % for consoles, but that could drag out the time as well until those sales come in). Also, I strongly doubt Ferg would pay what's due when it came in, he'd try to ration the payments out as slowly as possible if past practice is to be believed.

If Josh is planning to chill for a year, though, and rebalance Pillars without directing/write the Pillars PNP and oversee Indiana that may be the plan (I don’t know): Those kinds of tasks are faaaaaaaar easier than being a Project Director and are an effective way to coast out the rest of his time at Obsidian if he’s burnt out, as indicated - usually when someone indicates (publicly) they're "burned out" and they are downscoping their own duties, that's sometimes an indication they may be looking to move on - and it's already selling the move to the public as well. Again, I don't know for sure, so this is just a guess.

May 19, 2018
I think this is what you're saying, but the reason BG2 didn't get an immediate sequel wasn't due to sales, it was more b/c BioWare was sick with dealing with Black Isle and Interplay by that point (and maybe Atari, too).

I'm sure both Black Isle and Iplay wanted another BG3, but I don't think BioWare wanted to do a 3rd game with them (although they did finish off the series with ToB, and did let Black Isle continue to license the Infinity Engine).

Apparently, even the negotiations for BG2 were pretty... strained, but BioWare was in a position to negotiate better terms, so they did for BG2, but I don't know if they needed Black Isle/Interplay anymore (or the D&D franchise) to go off and do RPGs on their own and make their own ip.

Also, I think BioWare wasn't happy when Black Isle did Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (I don't get the impression BioWare were consulted about the name or the game at all, it was a surprise to them). While BioWare didn't own "BG," they were still tied pretty heavily to the name, and they had some concerns Dark Alliance could hurt the brand. BIS did have the rights to use BG, however.

May 12, 2018
It's not balls, I’m not brave for saying any of this. Normally, in the game industry (or any industry), there’s always the fear of speaking up because the people are in control of your job and your livelihood – sometimes even after you leave. Silence, threats, fear of future unemployment, and concealment of bad or unethical practices isn’t something that makes the industry or employee’s lives any better – it’s often done for the benefit of a few. Many employees never even know what’s going on until layoffs happen.

I took certain steps to make fear, threats, and control a non-issue, so it’s not really bravery as much as freedom. Before saying anything, I made sure it could be confirmed (and if evidence is deleted or can’t be found, that’s even better), that I was prepared for any response, and I was 100% determined to fight it. I fought it while I was there, and I’ll fight it after I leave.

I will say all of this could have been avoided if these practices hadn’t been done in the first place – I mean, seriously, you don’t have to try to hire your underage kids – aside from being illegal, it’s unethical. If the attempt had been successful, it was something that could have done serious damage to the entire company, and it was being done for the benefit of a very few.

What made some of the practices worse was Obsidian management would make the exact opposite stand in public (ex: continually blaming the publisher for incidents the developer caused to generate sympathy, like they did with Microsoft and others that got torpedo’d by seeming revelations – although I think Feargus was banking on Microsoft not giving a shit what was said or even notice what was being said).

The Stormlands cancellation got latched onto b/c it’s a good underdog story that transitioned into a good crowdsourcing story, but it’s not the truth. And I'm sure many ex-Stormlands devs who were laid off or quit could attest to that - but they still wouldn't know everything.

Also, speaking out about publishers also jeopardized the entire company as well and did hurt our future prospects (Feargus was told by publishers to stop broadcasting information, and that did jeopardize our relationships during the pitch process). They rarely worked with the same publisher twice. I do (even ones Obsidian used to work with), and I do so often – and there’s a good reason for it.

The industry’s not perfect, but if you're in upper management and rely on fear, concealment, or enforced silence to protect bad behavior, that needs to change, and it needs to be called out – either internally, and if that fails, externally. I do think that once something’s brought to light, people will start examining patterns and begin to question similar behaviors.

May 11, 2018
Be careful, it's one of Feargus's oldest friends. Feargus didn't tell us he hired him until after it had happened, and we all got pretty uncomfortable when the news was passed along (we didn't always hear about new hires at a PD level, which I thought was a mistake - but Feargus knew there'd be contention if we hired him, so he just went ahead and did it).

I could deal with it as long as he was on other outsourced projects, but when those failed and got removed from Obs (and with good reason), I was sad to hear he became part of the core company, since even though I liked him, I thought he was symptomatic of the nepotism corporate culture that was growing in the company.

May 11, 2018
...
And this was while the other senior artists at Black Isle were busy hosting Quake servers in the middle of the day and letting Stonekeep 2 burn (which Colin McComb and I would write haikus to each other about, since it was symptomatic of how Black Isle Studios was run - the privileged could goof off all day, get "milestone bonuses" that no one else got, but the people actively making games and making progress didn't get or request the same treatment). Colin writes amazing haikus, btw. They're deadly. Also, I was one of the ones who, when learning that BIS's SK2 lead producer was hired at Obsidian, we all got a cold shiver in our stomachs (part of the reason was he, again, Feargus's friend).

I did make the mistake of asking Tim to come back and work with the ex-BIS crew (Obsidian) - if I could go back in time, I'd order my younger self to spare Tim the agony. He tried to educate, and it wasn't well-received.

May 11, 2018
Feargus is not a sociopath. What Feargus has is pre-millennial entitlement and a lack of empathy.

He continually makes decisions concerning employees without taking the time to ask how he would feel if situations were reversed. I’m not talking about me, I’m talking about the employees – ex: the refusal to pay back the paychecks for people who sacrificed - these employees understood empathy.

When he makes a decision, the decision is governed by how it benefits him, and if it feels fair – to him. So when Feargus told me he never promised to pay back employees, he was being genuine - he was focused on the promise part, not what was right.

This isn’t the best way to view a situation because if you're convinced the sun revolves around you, it's really hard to see the universe any other way.

Even putting employees aside, this entitlement caused tremendous problems with publishers, which I've already discussed. Even more concerning was when Feargus directly experienced being “unfairly” treated by publishers, that didn’t stop him from using the exact same practices with contractors and employees reporting to him – he didn’t take the time to translate his own experiences and see how they might apply to others should he do the same thing – he just passed the bad behavior along.

One could argue he has empathy and disregards it, but the end result is the same: he makes decisions accordingly.

 

[Black_Stride]

There is no proof of MS meddling in any of the studios they bought, quite the opposite. This could be typical Obsidian mismanagement nonsense or over-exaggeration from Avellone.

Thats true.
MS has in recent history has basically let studios do whatever they want to do.
So yeah might just be Obsidians own fault.

This honestly reeks of bad mannagement, if true.

Avowed was a dream project for many Obsidian employees. If they get shifted around or demoted, most employees would leave in that situation. Creative pursuit > money in game development industry.

If its Obsidians own management doing the reshuffling we cant really blame MS they left Obsidian to their own vices and this is what we got.

Who were the leads? Surely we could scour their LinkedIn profiles and Twitter Accounts to see where they went. This wreaks of BS and only 1 person is talking about it.

Sounds like a man with Integrity - Chris Avellone - Wikipedia

He may hold some grudges considering his past.

Im too lazy to do the work off a rumor about a game that doesnt seem all that close.
But the Art Director on Avowed (not Art Lead as Chriss mentioned) hasnt updated their Linkedin?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthansenart/

 

[Bryank75]

These things happen when you just go out and buy tons of studios....

Goals, culture and other things all need to be aligned to make sure the company doesn't fall apart.

Just look at Blizzard, it took longer but the bigger company slowly destroyed the culture of the smaller one.... there is always a dominant.

 

[Irobot82]

Who were the leads? Surely we could scour their LinkedIn profiles and Twitter Accounts to see where they went. This wreaks of BS and only 1 person is talking about it.

Sounds like a man with Integrity - Chris Avellone - Wikipedia

He may hold some grudges considering his past.

Oh boy. Maybe read this thread
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/chris-avellone-is-fighting-back-update-6-26-21.1549758/

 

[Nvzman]

Even though there is no definitive proof yet the game is undergoing serious management issues, is it really that hard to believe that maybe MS is just awful at managing studios? Halo Infinite and 343i are pretty perfect examples for this, they've continually fucked up big time and MS still refuses to completely restructure them.
If you ask me, from what we've seen with studios like Rare and Obsidian, it seems that the problem with MS is not that they are being too overly controlling, its that they aren't putting any control over the studios at all, and as a result there's a complete lack of direction whatsoever. Studios are allowed to make whatever the hell they want (which is not a bad thing mind you), but it genuinely feels like Microsoft has no quality control involved, like they really don't care if the game is in shit shape or not. Its a completely different environment compared to Nintendo and Sony, where you do feel like they genuinely care about the quality and production efficiency of their games.

Also before anyone starts shouting "fanboy/hater" or whatever the fuck, I own a Series X and GamePass. MS is amazing on a service front, but I still firmly stand by that their first party work has been largely forgettable or shit since 2010. Flight Simulator and Forza are pretty much the only two franchises that really deliver on the quality front, Gears 5 was close but imo the gameplay was extremely stale.

 

[Irobot82]

Isn't Adam Brenneke the Project Lead on grounded? I thought it was his baby/creation? He was the lead programmer on Pillars 1 and 2.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

I am not surprised by this. Let's be honest the owners got a lot of money, got replaced, now everyone may feel down. They quit or are removed, the environment gets worse. New management tries to keep things afloat, but the mindset is set now.

 

[Bernkastel]

Even though there is no definitive proof yet the game is undergoing serious management issues, is it really that hard to believe that maybe MS is just awful at managing studios? Halo Infinite and 343i are pretty perfect examples for this, they've continually fucked up big time and MS still refuses to completely restructure them.
If you ask me, from what we've seen with studios like Rare and Obsidian, it seems that the problem with MS is not that they are being too overly controlling, its that they aren't putting any control over the studios at all, and as a result there's a complete lack of direction whatsoever. Studios are allowed to make whatever the hell they want (which is not a bad thing mind you), but it genuinely feels like Microsoft has no quality control involved, like they really don't care if the game is in shit shape or not. Its a completely different environment compared to Nintendo and Sony, where you do feel like they genuinely care about the quality and production efficiency of their games.

Just so you know Chris Avellone claims this is the fault of Obsidian's management. If you are gonna cause drama over his tweet atleast look into what he is bitching about since he left Obsidian.

 

[Black_Stride]

These things happen when you just go out and buy tons of studios....

Goals, culture and other things all need to be aligned to make sure the company doesn't fall apart.

Just look at Blizzard, it took longer but the bigger company slowly destroyed the culture of the smaller one.... there is always a dominant.

Damned if you do damned if you dont.

If MS meddles with Obsidian people are up in arms.
If MS doesnt meddle with Obsidian people are up in arms.

 

[Heisenberg007]

If its Obsidians own management doing the reshuffling we cant really blame MS they left Obsidian to their own vices and this is what we got.

True. Not blaming MS, as it could be Obsidian's internal management, but guys like Booty and Phil need to interfere and fix this either way. If they don't, they will also be responsible as Obsidian is a part of XGS now.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Even though there is no definitive proof yet the game is undergoing serious management issues, is it really that hard to believe that maybe MS is just awful at managing studios? Halo Infinite and 343i are pretty perfect examples for this, they've continually fucked up big time and MS still refuses to completely restructure them.
If you ask me, from what we've seen with studios like Rare and Obsidian, it seems that the problem with MS is not that they are being too overly controlling, its that they aren't putting any control over the studios at all, and as a result there's a complete lack of direction whatsoever. Studios are allowed to make whatever the hell they want (which is not a bad thing mind you), but it genuinely feels like Microsoft has no quality control involved, like they really don't care if the game is in shit shape or not. Its a completely different environment compared to Nintendo and Sony, where you do feel like they genuinely care about the quality and production efficiency of their games.

Well, when you get new people, things change. The vision now must be different from the one they had at the beginning.

 

[Black_Stride]

I am not surprised by this. Let's be honest the owners got a lot of money, got replaced, now everyone may feel down. They quit or are removed, the environment gets worse. New management tries to keep things afloat, but the mindset is set now.

Obsidians management didnt change?
And thats what Chris is bitching about right now.

Well, when you get new people, things change. The vision now must be different from the one they had at the beginning.

The whole thing with MSs new purchase strategy is basically continue doing what you were doing.
With or without MS money assuming what Chris is saying is true.....this was the outcome.

 

[Kerotan]

I don't care about rumors, i'm gonna rate the finished product. If it sucks, so be it. But i hope not.

It could be the next halo and launch broken years from now.

 

[Ceadeus]

I don't see how the team would go wrong, from their past works they've been doing so good.

 

[Gameplaylover]

It could be the next halo and launch broken years from now.

Thank you for your concern, time will tell.

 

[TheGrat1]

"Rumor"

 

[Nvzman]

Just so you know Chris Avellone claims this is the fault of Obsidian's management. If you are gonna cause drama over his tweet atleast look into what he is bitching about since he left Obsidian.

Oh yes, I'm fully aware. I'm not "causing drama", I'm saying if Microsoft paid money so that they could have full control over Obsidian, they should be using it. Naughty Dog allegedly had a ton of staff leaving inbetween Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us Part 2 (much worse than the alleged Obsidian situation), and yet Sony was still able to get them to deliver on their end. That's how project management works. This isn't fanboying drama, its just an observation I've noticed for years. Obviously its a problem within Obsidian, but that doesn't mean MS can't do anything about it.

 

[reksveks]

Isn't Adam Brenneke the Project Lead on grounded? I thought it was his baby/creation? He was the lead programmer on Pillars 1 and 2.

I quite like Grounded and once we get a proper release, going to jump in

 

[Irobot82]

I quite like Grounded and once we get a proper release, going to jump in

Yessir! I play with my kids actively after every update. Great game.

 

[Punished Miku]

Oh yes, I'm fully aware. I'm not "causing drama", I'm saying if Microsoft paid money so that they could have full control over Obsidian, they should be using it. Naughty Dog allegedly had a ton of staff leaving inbetween Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us Part 2 (much worse than the alleged Obsidian situation), and yet Sony was still able to get them to deliver on their end. That's how project management works. This isn't fanboying drama, its just an observation I've noticed for years. Obviously its a problem within Obsidian, but that doesn't mean MS can't do anything about it.

Sony had a whole VR studio do nothing for 5 years, and then get closed - allegedly. Naughty Dog may just have competent management within their own studio. From most interviews, they say repeatedly that Sony is as hands off as possible.

Nintendo is really the only one that we know for sure literally gets involved in each individual project, embeds a producer from their own staff on each game if its made by an outside studio, and regularly reviews the game and offers criticism and suggestions. The Luigi's Mansion 2 Iwata Asks is a good example of that. Cancelling Metroid Prime 4 and starting over is another example.