I think the communities of their big multiplayer franchises right now are just as if not more unsatisfiable so I can't really see why this should be an issue
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Rumor: Half Life 3 still not in full development
- Thread starter iNvid02
- Start date
I think the communities of their big multiplayer franchises right now are just as if not more unsatisfiable so I can't really see why this should be an issue
So it's self entitled gamers? Good going self entitled gamers, you just weren't satisfied in ruining Mass effect but now you also have to ruin Half life? Bastards...
I seriously doubt Valve are looking at their fanbase and that is what they see, a ravenous horde of Orcs waiting for them to disappoint us so we can eat them alive. They have built a re-pore with their audience over a number of years and they're always promoting this sense of community. Whatever their justification for basically making like the Brotherhood of Steel and taking all of the good shit deep underground, I doubt cynicism surrounding people crucifying them for Half Life 3 not being incredible is one of them.
So fans should have taken the ME3 ending and been happy with it? Is that what you're suggesting? The backlash to that was not born out of entitlement, it was sense and good taste prevailing over complete and utter stupidity.
You're calling me stupid, because I'm calling the internet outrage of self entitled brats, a little over the top? This is not an academic discussion about whether the ending of ME3 was satisfying or not. It's about how the audience responded to the creators.
Critique the game all you want, by all means. I'm saying, there wouldn't have been an outcry in the first place, had the previous hours of ME1, 2 and 3 not been so great. People loved that shit. But they all seemed to forget this the last minute of ME3. And they went completely bonkers.
By all means, keep critiquing. But please learn the difference between criticism and throwing shit on paintings with demands of having a new one.
hobblygobbly
Member
HL1+2 were amazing because of how they changed the FPS genre in many respects, widely innovating. I don't think Valve wants to make a new Half-Life just to continue the story. HL1+2 were successes due to how it managed the narrative as a FPS and it was new at the time. I don't think Valve wants to simply repeat that with HL3, I think Valve will only make HL3 if it can innovate on some area again, maybe it's VR? I don't know. Personally to me just a continuation of the story would be a let down especially for having to wait that long. I think the pressure of HL3's expectations/meme status is more demotivating than motivating really.
hah. but seriously. Game developers, designers, they have quit their jobs because literally, changing a few things in a game that the players love (the reloading time in one of the call of duties, for instance) resulted in outcries and death threats to families.
What is this shit, folks? This feeling of democracy in gaming is so different than other types of media.
Perhaps a history of paying inflated prices for experiences that didn't deserve it has led us to this point. You want to blame anyone, blame the big publishers.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
In every single bit of Internet outrage since 1997 in the landmark Picard vs. Kirk debate on trekker.org, there have been "death threats." Using the fringe element to call the entire fan base "entitled brats" is sort of silly. Every movement has people issued "death threats." If we used them to discredit some side of a movement, there wouldn't be anything left. That doesn't excuse shitty people doing shitty things, but some amount of assholes are going to attach themselves to any movement.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of ME fans wrote letters, Tweeted and baked cupcakes.
But this is kind of the point, isn't it? People cared that much about it because they were so personally invested in the story, and as a storyteller I can't imagine this isn't what you want. It's not the fault of the people that were invested for being angry when the creator of it basically takes a giant shit on their chest, is it?
You also can't say that people don't want HL3 so bad because they basically left the players up in the air about a lot of things in terms of story. You cannot get much more of a cliffhanger ending than what they did in Episode 2, and I actually feel kind of pissed that a creator of something like that would leave people that actually give a shit about your story hanging like this.
I hope it's a vr only game. It'd be worth just to see the mental hoops some people will jump through to convince themselves that it's not a proper Half Life. It'll be like the people that say FFXI and XIV aren't real Final Fantasies but multiplied by about 1000.
Also, it'd be great.
But they'll never make a new one, so never mind.
Stilton Disco
Member
Indeed. Mass Effect fans weren't pissed off because they felt entitled to having their every whim catered to, or demanding to have some impossible to achieve work of super fiction, they were pissed off because the ending of Mass Effect 3 is shit.
It's an unsatisfying incorreherent torrent of garbage for the last hour+ of the game, with the final 15 minutes just a festering pile of unsatisfying bollocks. And that's even after the extended cut.
All the anti consumerist arseholes yelling about 'entitled gamers' never seem to take this fact into account. As a product, Mass Effect 3 was fundamentally broken and substandard because of that ending, which is particularly irksome given it's importance to the overarching narrative, and given the fact that the prior games endings are fucking amazing.
People go on about the fans hating 3 because it didn't end in sunshine and rainbows, but ME2's ending is almost universally adored by the fans, and in it the entire cast can fucking die, including Shepard. It can be as miserable as fuck, and it's applauded for it, because it's bloody brilliant.
So yeah, if Valve are seriously pointing to the fan reaction to the ending of ME3 being utter shite, as a reason they don't want to make HL3, then they're being anti consumerist pricks.
As is anyone who calls angry customers, demanding for a broken product they paid money for to be fixed, 'entitled'.
I'm new be nice
Member
Mass Effect had such dramatically different challenges to its narrative also.
Half-life is a linear game, Mass Effect had so many choices, all of those choices were suppose to have an effect on the final outcome, and the disappointment came from the fact that that didn't happen.
It's like apples to oranges.
ashecitism
Member
Don't think they care about cutting edge technology anymore. Their last big game in that department was HL2 after all. Hell, their big features for Source 2 are multithreading, streaming, 64bit support, multi-API support, better tools.
I think they are probably experimenting and brainstorming for something ground-breaking that will justify the game. Half-life 2 has physics and the gravity gun, Portal has portals. Valve is all about creating something that feels truly unique and developing a game around that and I think they are struggling to find what that might be for the next one.
They want to WOW people like they did with their previous games and won't settle for anything less. Things is... inventing is pretty hard and I do think they should have a lot more people actively thinking about it than they do.
I do not see them as a developer nowadays and that is really sad since I used to hold them at the very top. Maybe it's because of people like me that they are so scared.
They want to WOW people like they did with their previous games and won't settle for anything less. Things is... inventing is pretty hard and I do think they should have a lot more people actively thinking about it than they do.
I do not see them as a developer nowadays and that is really sad since I used to hold them at the very top. Maybe it's because of people like me that they are so scared.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
With it being this long now, makes me wonder if we will ever actually see HL2 Episode 3 or HL3. Maybe Valve are not really sure how to finish the story and would rather wait for a good idea or just leave it alone, rather than release it with a sub par story.
I personally think they should cross the story over with Portal (with it being set in the same universe) 2 player co-op (Gordon and Chell) would be awesome, just imagine all the crazy fun that could be had when Portal Gun meets Gravity Gun
The story could have Gordon going to Aperture to retrieve something that could maybe help stop the Combine (good excuse to include GLaDOS in the game) and could set up some fun scenarios involving GLaDOS messing with Gordon and the Combine. He meets Chell and they team up, escape Aperture and head off to stop the Combine in an epic final battle.
I personally think they should cross the story over with Portal (with it being set in the same universe) 2 player co-op (Gordon and Chell) would be awesome, just imagine all the crazy fun that could be had when Portal Gun meets Gravity Gun
The story could have Gordon going to Aperture to retrieve something that could maybe help stop the Combine (good excuse to include GLaDOS in the game) and could set up some fun scenarios involving GLaDOS messing with Gordon and the Combine. He meets Chell and they team up, escape Aperture and head off to stop the Combine in an epic final battle.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Pretty sad if they are afraid of the internets. If the script is finished and that excuse is real, they basically dont have self respect for their work and any balls to release it.
That game is loved by the majority of people and there isnt a backlash for the ending.
You dont even hear the downgrade arguments anymore (and those were stupid and a small minority in the first place).
Wut?
That game is loved by the majority of people and there isnt a backlash for the ending.
You dont even hear the downgrade arguments anymore (and those were stupid and a small minority in the first place).
I've read here and there that the ApSci VR demo sports PBR (it's a little hard to tell from the footage released given its VR nature). I imagine Valve doesn't want to go into specifics about the rendering side of things at this stage as doing so would just lead to people demanding a game to be shown off -- the elements it's talked about thus far are all things it's demonstrated using Dota 2.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
I can kinda understand where they're coming from - Peoples expectations regarding Half-Life 3 would be ENORMOUS. I mean, what everyone would expect is for Valve to revolutionize the First Person Shooter genre like they did with Half-Life 1 and (sorta) did with Half-Life 2 (even though I still think that game has insane pacing issues) - So yeah, if there would've been a window to do this with VR / Vive, great, people would've been going crazy for that, but I doubt the typical Half-Life formula even works in VR and the tech itself still needs a shit ton of R&D before it all really works.
I'm sure Valve knows that a VR Half-Life could be something people would be insanely excited about and since they're very money-oriented, one could argue that they could make it just to sell a shit ton of Vive's, but I'm pretty sure they'd never let the brand get tarnished simply by releasing Half-Life when the VR Tech just isn't there yet.
Look at Duke Nukem and all these vaporware games - people build up all these expectations and it's always insanely difficult (and by this point maybe even impossible) to live up to the hype.
I'm sure Valve knows that a VR Half-Life could be something people would be insanely excited about and since they're very money-oriented, one could argue that they could make it just to sell a shit ton of Vive's, but I'm pretty sure they'd never let the brand get tarnished simply by releasing Half-Life when the VR Tech just isn't there yet.
Look at Duke Nukem and all these vaporware games - people build up all these expectations and it's always insanely difficult (and by this point maybe even impossible) to live up to the hype.
These developers are quitting AAA development. The outcry by "entitled" gamers is a symptom of AAA development practices that has been waiting to happen for years. The cycle of hype alongside the constantly increasing cost to play these games over the last few years (the "HD tax", F2P mechanics in full price games, season passes) creates massive expectations among a group of primarily straight white men who are already heavily catered to. If those expectations aren't met (or if they perceive themselves as being ignored), the backlash is naturally going to be crazed. This is the bed that companies like EA and Activision made for themselves.
On topic though, this rumour is bullshit. Valve operate under a completely different paradigm than EA/Bioware, why would they concern themselves with a public company that makes shortsighted decisions against their own self-interest on the regular. If they were so scared of fan backlash, creating HL3 would be the "safe" option rather than codeveloping a Counter-Strike sequel, a Portal sequel, a Left4Dead sequel, and rebuilding DOTA in Source while pumping huge amounts of money into it. All of the above get the usual "NOT REAL GAEMS" response, primarily from the same demographic weaned on AAA blockbusters Valve is so apparently scared of.
The rumour also contradicts itself, claiming Valve are under no financial pressure yet also stating that Valve move staff to more profitable titles (which also contradicts Valve's very public policy of allowing staff to self-organise).
We'll most likely start hearing about HL3 soon after Vive ships, by which point DX12/Vulkan will be ramping up in support, DOTA2 Reborn/Source 2 will have come out of beta, and Steam controllers will have been on the market a couple of months.
Krusenstern
Banned
Valve makes so much money out of Steam and their F2P/Multiplayer games, I think they will never release a story-driven single player game like Portal or HL ever again.
Dangansona
Member
Pretty sure it means with the amount of hype the game has that of it isn't perfect the legion of angry gamers will kick and scream on the Internet and that has scared them from committing to a sequel that they may still care about.
If this rumor is to be trusted.
Chezzymann
Member
At this point I feel half life is more of a meme in the public consciousness now than a video game franchise.
The little evidence we have that both L4D3 and HL3 exist suggests that the former is much further along. It's looking more and more likely that L4D3 is a 2016 title, in which case Valve won't be uttering a word about HL3 until 2017 at the earliest.
That was a misunderstanding. There was no Episode Four, just Return to Ravenholm, which was to be set be a side story to Episode Two.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
You took the words out of my mouth ! (or keyboard but whatever!). Fans disliked the ending to ME3 because it was rancid compared to the quality fans were used to even within ME3 itself.
Valve is shortsighted to make ME3's ending a factor because the it has nothing to do with entitlement but rather unsatisfactory with the finished game and people have the right to criticize said game company for not delivering. I am not saying that Valve should make HL3 perfect but I highly doubt they'll reach the lows Bioware reached with ME3.
ashecitism
Member
JaseC, how long till TF2 will be surpassed as their longest gestating project?
That'll happen on October 3rd, so exactly 10 weeks from today. I have a reminder set in my phone so I don't forget to make a thread.
I still think they'd be the best fit out of any studio taking on the project.
Yeah, Arkane would certainly be a good fit.
BossDarkseid
Member
Laidlaw confirmed that Ep 4 + RtR were the same thing though?
Is the evidence you're referring to the JIRA leaks? If so I get where you're coming from, but I would imagine the reason for L4D3s supposed progress is that they were bringing over the L4D2 content to Source 2 (as also seen in the leaked slides showing L4D2 maps with massively improved assets), most likely as a way to test and iterate the Source 2 tools. It's hard to say when we only have a glimpse of what's going on, a huge amount of HL3 art assets likely already have been built up over the years but they wouldn't have been documented on the JIRA tracker we saw at the time.
That part of the Half-Life wiki is poorly worded. What he said is that Gabe was in fact referring to RtR:
That + the Valve bug tracker photo showing some L4D3-related entries + GAFer Jshackles (creator of Enhanced Steam) being asked if he was at Valve to participate in L4D3 playtesting.
Visualante2
Member
Timing of this rumour is interesting to me because TI5 is happening. Lots of outsiders visiting Valve this week.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
The thing is, I don't trust the current valve to be able to deliver. Their output since 2007 makes me question them and their ability, even with portal 2.
My expectations for Half-Life 2 at the time were huge, and Valve managed to exceed them. Then with Episode 1 and 2, and Portal, they completely blew me away all over again. I have confidence they could do it again with Half-Life 3, so it would be a massive shame if they lack that confidence.
Besides, ME3 garnered such a backlash because it was self-evident to anyone with half a brain how the ending and terrible writing ruined the core of the entire franchise. It wasn't merely a disappointing sequel.
Besides, ME3 garnered such a backlash because it was self-evident to anyone with half a brain how the ending and terrible writing ruined the core of the entire franchise. It wasn't merely a disappointing sequel.
ashecitism
Member
The JIRA leaks happened two years ago, still sticking to them as a definitive evidence might not be wise. For example there was no VR group back then, and look where it is now. Chet Faliszek, who's like the lead writer for L4D has been on it for more than a year, so show knows how that affected L4D3. Is the campaign done already etc And he's not the only one who left that or other group to join VR.
And Gooseman seeing it in person then later sharing Valve told him which software they used for generating random ivys for it. But again this was first half last year, we have no idea in what condition L4D3 is.
And Gooseman seeing it in person then later sharing Valve told him which software they used for generating random ivys for it. But again this was first half last year, we have no idea in what condition L4D3 is.
Mark Laidlaw apparently responded to this rumor in an email.
Ah, yeah, that, too.
PodcastFips
Member
Probably not a good idea, because Destiny.
If it happens Steam won't be available for at least 5 days when it shows up on Store.