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[Wiktor]

Right, another Apple innovation that everyone else quickly copied.

I don't think it was innovative as it was done before. Heck..Ovi store was actually announced almost a year before Appstore launched, not to mention there were cellphone net stores long before that.

I think that's the case with most of Apple's contributions. THey aren't really an innovative company, as their solutions are usually preceeded by other companies. What Apple lacks in innovation though, they make up in spades with influence. They take good ideas, polish them into greatness and make them popular enough to change the whole landscape.

 

[Wiktor]

So why don't you just buy one of those then

I did and I propably will again in the future. I'm just saying it can be done.

 

[border]

I think this is not always the case. There is an interview of Bill Gates in 2003 and he talks about tablets being the future, but that they need to find a way to make it valuable for businesses.

If I said that flying cars are the future, does that make me an innovator? Or is the innovator the company that successfully designs, builds, and markets a flying car?

Prophecies and analysts talk about the future. Innovators are the ones that make it happen.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I don't think it was innovative as it was done before. Heck..Ovi store was actually announced almost a year before Appstore launched, not to mention there were cellphone net stores long before that.

I think that's the case with most of Apple's contributions. THey aren't really an innovative company, as their solutions are usually preceeded by other companies. What Apple lacks in innovation though, they make up in spades with influence. They take good ideas, polish them into greatness and make them popular enough to change the whole landscape.

Pretty much this. Let's not forget how slow Apple is to change too. Look how long it took to get several features on just the iPhone alone long after the iPhone first launched. Many of those features were standard on other phones and platforms. Apple can be just as slow.

 

[Vyer]

I don't think it was innovative as it was done before. Heck..Ovi store was actually announced almost a year before Appstore launched, not to mention there were cellphone net stores long before that.

I think that's the case with most of Apple's contributions. THey aren't really an innovative company, as their solutions are usually preceeded by other companies. What Apple lacks in innovation though, they make up in spades with influence. They take good ideas, polish them into greatness and make them popular enough to change the whole landscape.

Innovation and invention are two different things. Just because there was some semblance of a thing in existence before doesn't mean it's not an innovation.

 

[planar1280]

Not really. My sister and wife hate them for the same reason - too big/heavy and can't be used outside. Change both of those aspects and they'll jump all over one. I imagine they're not alone.

Phone is for outside use

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Apple's strength isn;t being first to market, it's getting to market at the right time.

Lots of products are ahead of their time, and crash and burn. Jobs was adpet at seeing what their core failings were, getting them fixed, and getting to market what the market was ready for. It can't be understated how important that is.

 

[Troll]

Is there a place to watch it live??

 

[Jayayess1190]

According to AnandTech the W700 has an IvyBridge Processor, while the W510 has an atom-family chip.

speaking of atom: intel previously talked about the possibility to bring passive cooling to atom powered x86 machines to compete with arm, but I am not sure if any of the announced models do have that ( transformer 810 or what it was called for example)

There are netbooks that use Atom and are fanless already.

 

[dLMN8R]

Is there a place to watch it live??

I think live.twit.tv will cover it live + commentary from Tom Merrit and other people from Tech News Today.

 

[tino]

I think a big problem was also calling it a Kindle. Kindle is a name so associated with e-readers. It'd be like if apple called the iPad the iPhone Fire. Most people I know didn't know it was a tablet, just a color e-reader. And someone looking for a reader likely would go for the far less expensive e-ink verision.

I think the low sales of low end cheap tablet can be compared to low sales of low end DSLR: people who care enough about this kind of products usually are willing to pay more for better quality; people who don't care about it (the core feature) enough will only buy it if its trendy.

 

[border]

I guess you could argue that Kinect is really just an extension of concepts introduced by the Wii (and frankly the Kinect has a LOT of problems, I don't think it was ready for prime time) but yeah there is still a lot of innovation there.

Where is the innovation with Kinect? As far as the base technology goes, wasn't that an external buyout? Isn't it mostly rooted in tech already established by the Wii and PS2's Eyetoy?

And as far as the software goes, there is almost zero innovation. Almost everything is a tiresome imitation of something the Wii already did. Most of their launch lineup was "Me too" games that aped Wii titles (Joy Ride - Mario Kart, Kinect Sports - Wii Sports, Dance Central - Just Dance, and a million Wii Fit clones). While the controller-free set up seems exciting, it actually enables a much more narrow and shallow range of ganes/genres than any other motion control setup......nobody is ever going to be playing Zelda or Mario with it. So while it appears innovative on the surface, it ends up being a pretty huge step back.

On top of that, Kinect was a ridiculously reactionary product. I'd argue that it's yet another example of Microsoft failing to innovate, then showing up to the market YEARS late and trying to use their fortune to buy their way in. They were 6-7 years late on game consoles, 4 years late on smartphones, 4 years late on motion controls, and will be nearly 3 years late on tablets. So they're getting slightly faster at least

 

[D4Danger]

ignore this. I can't read.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Where is the innovation with Kinect? As far as the base technology goes, wasn't that an external buyout? Isn't it mostly rooted in tech already established by the Wii and PS2's Eyetoy?

The hardware (made by Primesense) isn't what is innovative about Kinect it's the software which is entirely Microsoft's creation. Producing an affordable 3D depth sensor for retail and creating software that allows it to track 20-40 points on a human body in a 3D environment in real time. You might think the games are mostly imitations but the tech itself, despite being far from perfect in its current state (largely due to the limited hardware, rather than the software), is very impressive and isn't in any way building on what the Wii and Eyetoy (a standard webcam with motion tracking and limited 2D hand/head tracking) did from a technical perspective, even if it's ultimately still mostly just being used for dancing/sports games. The range of none-gaming uses and "hacks" that flooded YouTube after Kinect's launch says more about what it enabled as a product than, say, Dance Central.

 

[Izick]

So is everybody still shitting on this because it's Microsoft and nothing has been announced? I'm actually excited, I really dig Windows 8, and I would love to see it on a tablet.

 

[Windu]

So is everybody still shitting on this because it's Microsoft and nothing has been announced? I'm actually excited, I really dig Windows 8, and I would love to see it on a tablet.

there have been a lot of tablets already announced though, so i'm not sure why everyone is so excited.

 

[JaggedSac]

On top of that, Kinect was a ridiculously reactionary product. I'd argue that it's yet another example of Microsoft failing to innovate, then showing up to the market YEARS late and trying to use their fortune to buy their way in. They were 6-7 years late on game consoles, 4 years late on smartphones, 4 years late on motion controls, and will be nearly 3 years late on tablets. So they're getting slightly faster at least

How can they have been late to game consoles? And why only 6-7 years? Consoles have been around for far longer than that.

 

[border]

How can they have been late to game consoles? And why only 6-7 years? Consoles have been around for far longer than that.

I'd probably say that Microsoft wouldn't have really been in a position to produce and manufacture a mass-market game console prior to 1995. 1995 was really when gaming exploded into the mainstream as well. If they really wanted to get in on the ground floor, they should have been around for the first true 3D generation of systems.

94/95 was also when Microsoft began working on the DirectX API. Having a DirectX console would have probably wiped out OpenGL, and given them pretty massive control of game development market.

It's a little harder to fault them here, because I don't recall how developed DirectX was in 95 and 96. You can't launch a system mid-generation....so if DirectX wasn't ready for prime time around the launch window of the PSX/N64 they pretty much would have had to wait another 5 years.

 

[maeh2k]

Where is the innovation with Kinect?

And as far as the software goes, there is almost zero innovation.

Games aren't the only pieces of software that use Kinect. See Kinect used in operation

You don't see anyone playing Wii in the OR

 

[TheFightingFish]

Yeah as I said in my post I give Microsoft all the credit in the world for what they have done with Xbox, there is a whole laundry list of innovation there. I guess you could argue that Kinect is really just an extension of concepts introduced by the Wii (and frankly the Kinect has a LOT of problems, I don't think it was ready for prime time) but yeah there is still a lot of innovation there.

MS does have good skunkworks and maybe we have different definitions but I don't think you can really claim to have innovated something until you get it out of R&D and create a marketable product. As you say Microsoft sucks at following through on its ideas.

Maybe this is just slightly sour grapes from a Microsoft employee who works in the Server and Tools division (and I don't want to sound too salty here). But I wonder how many folks who start talking about this "lack of Microsoft innovation" and they really have no clue about anything that Microsoft does that's not Windows, a phone or maybe Xbox. 's a pretty big company here, and there is a pretty crazy amount of innovation here going on in all sorts of areas around servers, developer tools, business services, cloud computing and what not. I think if all you care about is gadgets and games your perspective on if Microsoft is innovative or not might differ quite a bit from someone who actually has a holistic view of the company.

But yeah, that being said I can't dispute that we have plenty to prove in the consumer gadget space. I just want to see us really take something and push it and I hope that Windows 8 is that push. There has been too much ping-ponging of direction previously and we really need the full company behind this. I really hope this is something good that we are getting here on Monday.

 

[Raistlin]

Marketing won't solve it completely because on the surface it will all look the same. So I still think this thread is a good example of the potential confusion. For people to know the difference they will have be more engaged.

I think the most hysterically inept move thus far is after going with WinRT as the name for their 'Metro' runtime API ... which (obviously) resides on both ARM and x64 ... to then changing Windows on ARM to Windows RT as the official public name of the ARM OS.

Seriously?

lol

Still no leaks, eh?

I'm impressed.

A few rumors are stating this may actually be related to XTV and Verizon.

So possibly an actual IPTV service, which I'd assume would include at least some supported platform info. Maybe even some HW news like Loop if it's true.

 

[clav]

A few rumors are stating this may actually be related to XTV and Verizon.

So possibly an actual IPTV service, which I'd assume would include at least some supported platform info. Maybe even some HW news like Loop if it's true.

I think Verizon's announcement is just a formality as news has reported the new Quantum package (300 Mbps download/65 Mbps upload).

That teaser just flashed devices that use the Internet, and it even says "FIOS" at the end.

http://youtu.be/wVqO7s3rN7I

Their latest video blabs about that package:

http://youtu.be/3hsMxzMTlT0

 

[Gary Whitta]

The hardware (made by Primesense) isn't what is innovative about Kinect it's the software which is entirely Microsoft's creation. Producing an affordable 3D depth sensor for retail and creating software that allows it to track 20-40 points on a human body in a 3D environment in real time. You might think the games are mostly imitations but the tech itself, despite being far from perfect in its current state (largely due to the limited hardware, rather than the software), is very impressive and isn't in any way building on what the Wii and Eyetoy (a standard webcam with motion tracking and limited 2D hand/head tracking) did from a technical perspective, even if it's ultimately still mostly just being used for dancing/sports games. The range of none-gaming uses and "hacks" that flooded YouTube after Kinect's launch says more about what it enabled as a product than, say, Dance Central.

It would be even more impressive if it actually fucking worked as advertised. I think I'm going to unplug mine as I'm sick of the hand-waving icon popping up every time I dare move while I'm watching a video, or getting kicked out to a menu if I shake a bottle of juice.

 

[brotkasten]

Guys, what if Microsoft is going to announce the Halo movie tomorrow?!

 

[border]

It would be even more impressive if it actually fucking worked as advertised. I think I'm going to unplug mine as I'm sick of the hand-waving icon popping up every time I dare move while I'm watching a video, or getting kicked out to a menu if I shake a bottle of juice.

We were getting the wave icon when we did pretty much anything with our hands. After the last dashboard update they made it super-aggressive about trying to pick up hand movement....it really shouldn't pop that garbage up until your hand has at least gone back and forth a couple times. Completely irritating when you're trying to watch a movie.

I've placed a book in front of the sensor now, so we can keep using the voice controls.....though I guess the people that mounted their Kinect on the wall are just permanently fucked.

 

[Windu]

Guys, what if Microsoft is going to announce the Halo movie tomorrow?!

directed by quentin tarantino

 

[clav]

Guys, what if Microsoft is going to announce the Halo movie tomorrow?!

Written by Gary Whitta.

shyamalantwist.jpg

 

[Damon Bennet]

I can actually imagine a kick ass halo movie with huge budget. i dont even like the franchise, but I can clearly see it in front of me. would watch

 

[Xun]

Apple's strength isn;t being first to market, it's getting to market at the right time.

Lots of products are ahead of their time, and crash and burn. Jobs was adpet at seeing what their core failings were, getting them fixed, and getting to market what the market was ready for. It can't be understated how important that is.

Indeed.

Also it'll be interesting to see what Microsoft show.

 

[Sean]

I think it's gotta be more significant than the current rumors.

If this ends up just being another Nook tablet but running Windows instead of Android, everyone is gonna be pissed off. Especially the press that have to fly halfway around the world again after just returning from E3 days ago.

 

[Cheebo]

I think it's gotta be more significant than the current rumors.

If this ends up just being another Nook tablet but running Windows instead of Android, everyone is gonna be pissed off. Especially the press that have to fly halfway around the world again after just returning from E3 days ago.

MS also has to worry about pissing off the OEM's. Next to MS Office their main business is selling OS's to OEM's. A Nook Tablet is more an e-reader sort of device which wouldn't directly compete with the OEM created Win 8/RT Tablets going up against iPad.

 

[D4Danger]

I think it's gotta be more significant than the current rumors.

If this ends up just being another Nook tablet but running Windows instead of Android, everyone is gonna be pissed off. Especially the press that have to fly halfway around the world again after just returning from E3 days ago.

The disappointment is already setting in and they haven't even done anything.

 

[quaere]

MS also has to worry about pissing off the OEM's. Next to MS Office their main business is selling OS's to OEM's. A Nook Tablet is more an e-reader sort of device which wouldn't directly compete with the OEM created Win 8/RT Tablets going up against iPad.

And what choice do those OEMs have now? Google is doing the same thing. There are no other available platforms.

 

[border]

If this ends up just being another Nook tablet but running Windows instead of Android, everyone is gonna be pissed off. Especially the press that have to fly halfway around the world again after just returning from E3 days ago.

I think most of the tech press is already in California, if not already in Los Angeles.

And what choice do those OEMs have now? Google is doing the same thing. There are no other available platforms.

Microsoft is apparently trying to charge OEMs like $80 for a WindowsRT license. How furious would they be if MS partnered up on a $200-300 tablet? When the OS alone costs that much, how could they ever hope to compete on price? It'd leave them struggling to create a tablet for maybe $100-150 in parts and assumbly costs.

 

[dLMN8R]

These latest rumors are just making even less sense. No shit....a Windows-based tablet is going to have Xbox Live in it? That's a "rumor"? It's a "surprise"?

How ignorant is the tech press here? Have they really ignored literally everything about Windows 8 that Microsoft has talked about for the last year?

 

[Raistlin]

These latest rumors are just making even less sense. No shit....a Windows-based tablet is going to have Xbox Live in it? That's a "rumor"? It's a "surprise"?

How ignorant is the tech press here? Have they really ignored literally everything about Windows 8 that Microsoft has talked about for the last year?

It's become increasingly clear to me that the tech press is barely better than the gaming press.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Is this 3:30 pacific or eastern?

 

[Windu]

Is this 3:30 pacific or eastern?

pacific

These latest rumors are just making even less sense. No shit....a Windows-based tablet is going to have Xbox Live in it? That's a "rumor"? It's a "surprise"?

How ignorant is the tech press here? Have they really ignored literally everything about Windows 8 that Microsoft has talked about for the last year?

yeah a lot of these rumors have been horrible

 

[saltywalrus]

And what choice do those OEMs have now? Google is doing the same thing. There are no other available platforms.

Tizen, Ubuntu, Bada, WebOS, MeeGo, Boot 2 Gecko. trolololololol

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

pacific

wow where do they get off

 

[Technosteve]

Guys, what if Microsoft is going to announce the Halo movie tomorrow?!

BeliVE

 

[lupinko]

Yeah Microsoft has never innovated. They've followed the model of a lot of biz giants, which is to wait for someone else to innovate then buy them or beat them with a similar product backed up by greater resources. Even MS-DOS was an acquisition.

The exception for me would be Xbox, which at least innovated an online ecosystem for consoles that had never really existed before.

You can make the argument that Sega did it first with the Dreamcast, and to a much, much, much, much, much lesser extent, the Saturn.

 

[goomba]

You can make the argument that Sega did it first with the Dreamcast, and to a much, much, much, much, much lesser extent, the Saturn.

 

[Sean]

I think most of the tech press is already in California, if not already in Los Angeles.

Yeah I guess that's true. Just that I was listening to the Vergecast the other day and Topolsky was speculating that it'd be a huge announcement based on the Microsoft PR lady urging him to fly out there (Verge is NY-based).

If it turns out to be something minor like a new Nook running Windows I suspect he'll be pretty disappointed.

 

[saltywalrus]

Topolsky was speculating that it'd be a huge announcement based on the Microsoft PR lady urging him to fly out there (Verge is NY-based).

Megaton prediction: MS announces the next Xbox is going to be a Windows RT tablet with an 8 core ARM chip, on sale this fall for $300. The tablet can be used like a Wii U controller, or you can play the games on the tablet screen instead of a TV. WP8 is announced for all major carriers with new hardware, and all apps created for WP will run on all Windows 8 or RT computers.

BOOM MS taking over this bitch.

 

[goomba]

Megaton prediction: MS announces the next Xbox is going to be a Windows RT tablet with an 8 core ARM chip, on sale this fall for $300. The tablet can be used like a Wii U controller, or you can play the games on the tablet screen instead of a TV. WP8 is announced for all major carriers with new hardware, and all apps created for WP will run on all Windows 8 or RT computers.

BOOM MS taking over this bitch.

So how does it connect to your TV?

 

[Vanillalite]

It's become increasingly clear to me that the tech press is barely better than the gaming press.

Maybe that's why Vox decided to get a gaming site, Polygon, to go along with their tech site, the Verge!

 

[Windu]

So how does it connect to your TV?

magic

 

[jbug617]

wouldn't the Tech press kill Microsoft if the announcement was going to be small.

 

[saltywalrus]

So how does it connect to your TV?

Wireless stream to a small device similar to an Apple TV. Optional BluRay addon for backward compatibility and movies.