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[Fantasmo]

Because it doesn't affect me as a consumer AT ALL. I buy my games new. If for whatever reason I buy a used game in the future I will take this into account and decide if I need to play online bad enough to spend an extra $5 or 10. Sorry that doesn't seem that outlandish to me. But as a consumer that buys new I am not getting anything less or being asked to pay more. This practice puts the onus on Gamestop or a reseller. If they don't adjust their prices on used games then they are the ones ripping you off.

Are you trying to say that Gamestop is the only used industry out there? What about Ebay? What about Amazon? Amazon sells new and used books, new and used dvds, new and used EVERYTHING, do they not? So I totally disagree. No, this seems like a greed move.

They can drop prices on older stock, do some banner advertising for great old games on their website.

On top of that, I have to worry about server shutdowns and one system usage?

Wow.

 

[Kitschkraft]

here comes Hyperbole gaf. They are never gonna section off levels or single player portions with a pass. Think logically.

Can't stand people trying to base an argument on "Oh man, gaf hive mind!" Who is Hyperbole Gaf, is he/she a mod?

Seriously though, it seems that publishers can really give it to consumers if they control the on disk content of both the multi and single player. Developers like Cliffy B have talked about this before. I think Jaffe has as well. Not saying it's a certainty, but it's WELL within the ballpark of what we might start seeing in the future. Things have changed for the worst, no reason to assume the downward trend will stop.

Unless you think this is it, and that the industry is going to finally stop crying over used sales that affect every other product.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Are you trying to say that Gamestop is the only used industry out there? What about Ebay? What about Amazon? Amazon sells new and used books, new and used dvds, new and used EVERYTHING, do they not? So I totally disagree. No, this seems like a greed move.

They can drop prices on older stock, do some banner advertising for great old games on their website.

On top of that, I have to worry about server shutdowns and one system usage?

Wow.

No they are not the only used industry out there. But it's up to that industry to adjust. Why should the publishers care about them when they get nothing out of it? Like I said, of course it's a greed move but so is everything Gamestop does, and this is a response to that.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Price drop it is. Im passing on this for when it's 25 or less on Amazon.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

But doesn´t the online pass only cost like $10, is that too much for any average gamer who already pays that kind of money for any type of DLC, call me crazy and even i am from a third world country but that isn´t to much, well i think.

 

[fernoca]

Doesn't mean they will all have trials.

Well, that's why I said so far.
I remember that there were a game or tow that didn't offer trials, but don't remember the exact games; so I don' know if I imagined things.

As for the profile wouldn't that mean that profile would then have to be used always in order to use online for that game? What if the xbox's are shared but the profiles aren't?

Yep, kinda. Seems that as long as the main profile (the one you activated the trial) is there; other accounts can use it. At least based on first-hand impressions in the PS3 and what friends have told me on 360 games.

Though I've seen people around here having problems with it, and not being able to; so I don't know if it depends on the games or something else.

Price drop it is. Im passing on this for when it's 25 or less on Amazon.

That $25 copy will still have an online pass. Heck you can buy it for 1 cent new and still require an online pass; so yeah..you're still supporting what you're claiming not to.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

But doesn´t the online pass only cost like $10, is that too much for any average gamer who already pays that kind of money for any type of DLC, call me crazy and even i am from a third world country but that isn´t to much, well i think.

are you saying online multiplayer is dlc?

 

[Banjo Tango]

Which is why you actually have DLC(not online passes) that have real value like Stages, Characters(that aren't on disc day 1), etc.

I have much more of a problem with developers charging for map-packs and such since they can fragment the user base.

At any rate, I'm ducking out of the thread, but I definitely support this "online pass" move. That said, I never play fighting games online, so if someone insists on buying used and wants my pass code just PM me!

 

[Fantasmo]

No they are not the only used industry out there. But it's up to that industry to adjust. Why should the publishers care about them when they get nothing out of it? Like I said, of course it's a greed move but so is everything Gamestop does, and this is a response to that.

I don't deny that. But I won't support it and neither should anyone else. DD is out there. Sale price the games and you can reap the benefits and shut out Gamestop.

If they want to push Gamestop back, they can do it and make the people buying the product, us, happier, and still make money.

 

[Plywood]

But doesn´t the online pass only cost like $10, is that too much for any average gamer who already pays that kind of money for any type of DLC, call me crazy and even i am from a third world country but that isn´t to much, well i think.

It's not about price, it's about charging for features already on disc.

I think you guys underestimate the general consumer.

I do underestimate the general consumer because they've made horse armor and on disc DLC highly profitable business practices.

I have much more of a problem with developers charging for map-packs and such since they can fragment the user base.

But going by your logic that would mean that maps and other such things should be free, when they actually cost money to make, be tested and fine tuned.

 

[cpp_is_king]

I actually love online pass, I think it's brilliant and I wish more games would adopt it.

That being said, for those complaining, the future is 100% digital, so if you think it's bad now, just wait until you can't even buy non-digital games anymore.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

are you saying online multiplayer is dlc?

At this point in the industry it should be consider as one, at least for the ones buying the game used.

And also online pass is like the cd key to play online in pc games.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't deny that. But I won't support it and neither should anyone else. DD is out there. Sale price the games and you can reap the benefits and shut out Gamestop.

If they want to push Gamestop back, they can do it and make the people buying the product, us, happier, and still make money.

Why shouldn't I? If you want to vote with your wallet go ahead but don't tell me what I shouldn't support. I see zero problems with online passes and see ZERO ways it will effect me. Why should I be outraged?

 

[DatBreh]

It's not about price, it's about charging for features already on disc.

I do underestimate the general consumer because they've made horse armor and on disc DLC highly profitable business practices.

But going by your logic that would mean that maps and other such things should be free, when they actually cost money to make, be tested and fine tuned.

So are you saying that if they took it off the disc you wouldnt have a problem?

 

[Fantasmo]

Why shouldn't I? If you want to vote with your wallet go ahead but don't tell me what I shouldn't support. I see zero problems with online passes and see ZERO ways it will effect me. Why should I be outraged?

Don't be. Pay more for your games. I already illustrated the lack of savings.

 

[methos75]

I really don't see the anger here, we have known for nearly two and a half decades now that video game companies have been against the used game market and the rental market for games, nothing new here. Things like this were a fore gone conclusion of that distaste for the market, and have been predicted for quite some time now. People should of expected this.

The Used game market is on the path to extinction, that is fact. The push towards Digital Distribution is picking up speed and its only a matter of time before it supplants hard copies of games. The gaming retail market as we now know it is getting ready for a big shake up, and once the dust settles gamestops, and others are probably going to go belly up. The industry is evolving past them, and that is just how it is. So what are you guys going to do then, when there is no way to buy used at all. Cry some more?

As others have stated, this really doesn't affect me, I buy most games that I know I'll play online day one new. I really cannot feel sorry for others who feel jipped when they buy a used game and then have to pay for online, cause this has became routine enough that it should be expected. Personally I feel that those of us who actually support the devs by buying new, are entitled for things like free online over those who do not.

 

[Plywood]

I actually love online pass, I think it's brilliant and I wish more games would adopt it.

That being said, for those complaining, the future is 100% digital, so if you think it's bad now, just wait until you can't even buy non-digital games anymore.

By the future you mean 20+ years from now right?

Because if you think ISP's are going to their shit together across the globe, I'm going to laugh at you.

Hell here's just in the US: CC analyzes US Internet. Shocked to find 60% connections fail minimal mandated spec

Highlights from the Internet Access Services report include the following:
· 60% of connections were slower than the benchmark 4 megabits per second (Mbps)
download speed identified by the FCC as the minimum bandwidth generally required to
accommodate today’s uses: high-quality voice, data, graphics, and video.
· Growth of fixed broadband service appears to have flattened at 1% in the first half of
2010, to 82 million connections.

So are you saying that if they took it off the disc you wouldnt have a problem?

Online is expected to be there on disc in this day and age, not ripped away and packaged as a DLC feature.

 

[fernoca]

Don't be. Pay more for your games. I already illustrated the lack of savings.

But the only ones paying "more" are the ones buying it used, and they're even buying it used because they got it for less.

Unless you can find any evidence that shows that this game (or any that uses online passes and costs $59.99) was going to cost $49.99?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Don't be. Pay more for your games. I already illustrated the lack of savings.

But I'm not going to be paying more for my games? Don't you get that? I lose nothing with the inclusion of online passes. If I go to sell a game and now I have to ask for $5-10 less that's my decision to make. But it's not the publisher or developer's job to ensure the resale value of my game.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

Online is expected to be there on disc in this day and age, not ripped away and packaged as a DLC feature.

Ok so if you want to play online your solution is buy the game NEW, don´t understand wants the problem here, this practice even benefits the used games consumer because if you plan to buy MORTAL KOMBAT used then you know that the game should be with minus $10 because that is what cost to play online with the game.

 

[Fantasmo]

But the only ones paying more" are the ones buying it used, and they're even buying it used because they got it for less.

Unless you can find me any evidence that shows that this game (or any that uses only passes and costs $59.99) was going to cost $49.99.

And as I said the only reason I bought into the Lord of the Rings is because I was able to borrow and enjoy it. Why should the software industry get extra entitlement than any other author, developer, producer, director, product creator, or publisher?

 

[DatBreh]

Online is expected to be there on disc in this day and age, not ripped away and packaged as a DLC feature.

So just say you expect free online and not use the "on disc" excuse which is wearing thin already.


Anyway this benefits me because used game sellers are going to have to drop the price of these games by 10 bucks. A lot of games i dont care about the online portion at all so they can keep that for all i care.

 

[methos75]

By the future you mean 20+ years from now right?

Because if you think ISP's are going to their shit together across the globe, I'm going to laugh at you.

Hell here's just in the US: CC analyzes US Internet. Shocked to find 60% connections fail minimal mandated spec



Online is expected to be there on disc in this day and age, not ripped away and packaged as a DLC feature.

Even if not an industry standard next gen, I think we will see many games released same day at both retail and DD much like we saw with ME2 on the PSN, it only makes sense. And we will probably see a great many DD only games as well, it is where the industry is headed and the push this gen can only mean a greater push next gen. either way, the onset of the next gen is going to hurt stores like Gamestop to a degree.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

So lets say if you bought your game used at a price of $50, now you know that you should buy it at least at $45 because you will need to pay between $5-$10 to play online, there problem solved.

 

[Plywood]

Ok so if you want to play online your solution is buy the game NEW, don´t understand wants the problem here, this practice even benefits the used games consumer because if you plan to buy MORTAL KOMBAT used then you know that the game should be with minus $10 because that is what cost to play online with the game.

If I buy the game used they (the devs) should not be wanting extra money when they already got their cut. Do you see car companies complaining about used car sales?

Even if not an industry standard next gen, I think we will see many games released same day at both retail and DD much like we saw with ME2 on the PSN, it only makes sense. And we will probably see a great many DD only games as well, it is where the industry is headed and the push this gen can only mean a greater push next gen. either way, the onset of the next gen is going to hurt stores like Gamestop to a degree.

I can see DD and physical media in the future side by side as there will always be benefits for one or the other and and I believe it boils down to user preference.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

And as I said the only reason I bought into the Lord of the Rings is because I was able to borrow and enjoy it. Why should the software industry get extra entitlement than any other author, developer, producer, director, product creator, or publisher?

So because you borrowed a book from a friend you apply that to every industry? If your friend buys a ticket to a movie, concert or sporting event can you "Borrow" that experience to see if you like it?

 

[fernoca]

And as I said the only reason I bought into the Lord of the Rings is because I was able to borrow and enjoy it. Why should the software industry get extra entitlement than any other author, developer, producer, director, product creator, or publisher?

And again, what's stopping you from borrowing and enjoying (in this case) Mortal Kombat? Unless you're borrowing it with the intention to play online for weeks or months.

Plus you're saying that the game is costing more, I said, were's the proof that it is costing more?

I can try and contact some of the guys at Netherrealm and ask them if the game was going to cost $10 less before this "announcement" if you want?

 

[Gigglepoo]

online passes really do help developers crack into the used game market, but it sure sucks when you take the game to a friend's house.

Fighting games are at their best in head-to-head local matches anyway.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

If I buy the game used they (the devs) should not be wanting extra money when they already got their cut. Do you see car companies complaining about used car sales?

I can see DD and physical media both continuing side by side as there will always be benefits for one or the other and and I believe it boils down to user preference.

Again with these type of references, the fuck when did the gaming industry became the automobile industry, its not even remotely equal to try and put an example in that way, you sould make an analogy at least between some type of sofware used industry, that i don´t even know if some typ of software used industry exists.

 

[DatBreh]

If I buy the game used they (the devs) should not be wanting extra money when they already got their cut. Do you see car companies complaining about used car sales?

Surely you dont want new videogames marked up as much as new cars are.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

the auto industry has ways to get money out of used car sales. Extended warranties, if you take the car in to a dealer to get serviced, the whole "certified pre-owned" industry, that the videogame industry doesn't have the option of doing. Nobody is going to buy an extended warranty for a videogame, or a "certified pre-owned" copy of Halo. This is their way of getting money out of used game sales. It's the same shit.

 

[To Far Away Times]

If I buy the game used they (the devs) should not be wanting extra money when they already got their cut. Do you see car companies complaining about used car sales?

To be fair, cars degrade over time where as games should function the same from the day you buy them to 20+ years later. I think books and DVD's are good examples of entertainment products that don't really degrade over time and are easily borrowed or sold used.

 

[Boss Man]

I understand the reasoning (with used games), but the retail price should be dropped accordingly. Online is usually the most important, lasting aspect of a game for me and I'm not sure if I'm willing to be pushed up to $70 per game now.


e. Nvm, I just learned how 2 rede. This is definitely fair.

 

[outunderthestars]

I don't really see what the big deal is. The used price will just be $10 cheaper now.

 

[abstract alien]

Eh, I'll support the dev and buy it new. Online pass does absolutely nothing to me. Even still, the least I could do is pay them for their online servers if I don't want to support them while playing their game to death.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I can't force anger on this. This is actually smart. If I buy used and I want to take the game online, then I don't have an issue with this.

 

[Someone47]

I'm not surprised, almost every third party game these days has an online pass. But I don't mind it because I only buy new games. Of course it's a bit bummer when you loan a game that has an online pass to your friend.

 

[Kintaro]

To be fair, cars degrade over time where as games should function the same from the day you buy them to 20+ years later. I think books and DVD's are good examples of entertainment products that don't really degrade over time and are easily borrowed or sold used.

You don't think books and DVDs degrade over time? What? You don't think DVDs and such get nicked up over time? Books wear out? Really?

I'm not saying the car analogy is apt here, but your counter is just as weak if not more so.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

I understand the reasoning (with used games), but the retail price should be dropped accordingly. Online is usually the most important, lasting aspect of a game for me and I'm not sure if I'm willing to be pushed up to $70 per game now.


e. Nvm, I just learned how 2 rede. This is definitely fair.

So this thinking should be applied to ALL GAME THAT DON´T HAVE ONLINE then, like VANQUISH, BAYONETTA, HEAVY RAIN, etc.... YEAH! i don´t see that coming.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You don't think books and DVDs degrade over time? What? You don't think DVDs and such get nicked up over time? Books wear out? Really?

I'm not saying the car analogy is apt here, but your counter is just as weak if not more so.

I think what he means is you get the same experience from a book or dvd when you buy it used. You don't get the same experience from a vehicle. Your book or dvd doesn't lose value when if there is another printing or pressing next year. Nobody counts the mileage on your book or dvd. You don't have to take your DVD or book in to get serviced more often because it's used than if it were new.

 

[Clott]

What do you want? How is a company not going to protect an investment they just put 20 million into.

 

[jsnepo]

If you buy it new, you get the online pass. I don't understand what's the big deal. Why is it bad for the consumer? Books and cars do not connect to servers that is paid by the publisher and for that, I don't get the analogy.

 

[Jackson]

Used games tear into a publisher's revenue too much for them not to create innovative ways to attack the problem. This is a logical progression.

Like it or not, every game will be like this eventually. Well, until cloud gaming takes over that is and then used games won't even exist!

 

[satriales]

If you buy it new, you get the online pass. I don't understand what's the big deal. Why is it bad for the consumer?

What if you have multiple PS3s? or friends/family/flatmates who you sometimes share games with. I don't usually sell my games but I wouldn't buy MK with this online pass purely because I don't like the idea of it being activated once and then asking for more money if I pass the game on to my brother or let my flatmate play it.

 

[Spike]

Next Up: Single Player and Multiplayer portions to be sold separately.

 

[LowParry]

Ya know, we're going to get some tweet from Boon saying "Deal with it".

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What if you have multiple PS3s? or friends/family/flatmates who you sometimes share games with. I don't usually sell my games but I wouldn't buy MK with this online pass purely because I don't like the idea of it being activated once and then asking for more money if I pass the game on to my brother or let my flatmate play it.

If you bought a game on XBLA and you want to let your friend borrow it or pass it down to your brother what do you do?

 

[fernoca]

Next Up: Single Player and Multiplayer portions to be sold separately.

Which wouldn't be a problem neither, if priced accordingly:
$30 + $30 = $60 = Same price as the MSRP of most games

Doubt that will be $60 + $60 or something like that, heck it could be probably even be less; like $20/$30 if the single player is relatively simple/short.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

What if you have multiple PS3s? or friends/family/flatmates who you sometimes share games with. I don't usually sell my games but I wouldn't buy MK with this online pass purely because I don't like the idea of it being activated once and then asking for more money if I pass the game on to my brother or let my flatmate play it.

Just tell them that they can´t play online, problem solved, or if they want to play online they have to do it in your console.

 

[Spike]

Which wouldn't be a problem neither, if priced accordingly:
$30 + $30 = $60 = Same price as the MSRP of most games

Doubt that will be $60 + $60 or something like that, heck it could be probably even be less; like $20/$30 if the single player is relatively simple/short.

Do you really expect them to 'price accordingly?'