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[Kintaro]

I think what he means is you get the same experience from a book or dvd when you buy it used. You don't get the same experience from a vehicle. Your book or dvd doesn't lose value when if there is another printing or pressing next year. Nobody counts the mileage on your book or dvd. You don't have to take your DVD or book in to get serviced more often because it's used than if it were new.

Ah, not its the same "experience."

This isn't really true either. A new DVD will probably work in your player out of the package. A used one may lock up in a spot or two where it wouldn't have before. Why? Wear and tear. That used book could be missing some pages. So on and so forth. What do you do when this happens? If you like it enough, you go out and buy a new one.

It is really not a given at all that one will receive the same experience, value, or whatever from a used product. However, that is something that is usually understood going into the act of purchasing used.

It all feels like one more pain in the ass to me. =/ Pay for more maps. Pay for more characters. Pay for extra costumes. Input more shit for DLC. Input shit for online passes so I can enable fucking PEER TO PEER. Which retailer do I buy from for the good DLC? Which DLC is the good DLC? Which version of the game is better? Blargh.

All for what? There isn't even any evidence these passes, extra DLC and shit even affects sales one bit.

=/

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Ah, not its the same "experience."

This isn't really true either. A new DVD will probably work in your player out of the package. A used one may lock up in a spot or two where it wouldn't have before. Why? Wear and tear. That used book could be missing some pages. So on and so forth. What do you do when this happens? If you like it enough, you go out and buy a new one.



=/

But you don't buy it expecting it to lock up, you buy it expecting you will be able to watch the movie no different than the new copy. If you buy a used car you can't expect it will be in the same condition as a new one, because the condition and wear and tear on a car matters a lot more than with a book or dvd.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

If you buy it new, you get the online pass. I don't understand what's the big deal. Why is it bad for the consumer? Books and cars do not connect to servers that is paid by the publisher and for that, I don't get the analogy.

The servers are paid by the publishers...why not charge everyone for online multiplayer new and used?

 

[satriales]

If you bought a game on XBLA and you want to let your friend borrow it or pass it down to your brother what do you do?

Well that's actually the reason I sold my 360. I initially thought Xbox Live would be tied to the console but then I realised it was only linked to the gamertag and so my brothers would have to use my gamertag if they wanted to play online. Then the final straw was when I bought Test Drive Unlimited and there was only one save slot so I'd have to also share my saved game. Buying seperate live accounts for everyone in my family was completely out of the question and so I just got rid of the lot.

With PSN I can share my details and play PSN games on several consoles, maybe that will also work with these unlock codes?

 

[Glass Joe]

For those complaining, keep in mind that the publisher isn't going to care. They wouldn't make a dime off your used game purchase, so why would they care if you're mad? If it forces you to buy new (or to DL the code), then and only then are you a customer in their eyes.

It sucks for us, but I totally get it and it's smart. As long as the packaging states something to the effect, I'm fine with it.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

It all feels like one more pain in the ass to me. =/ Pay for more maps. Pay for more characters. Pay for extra costumes. Input more shit for DLC. Input shit for online passes so I can enable fucking PEER TO PEER. Which retailer do I buy from for the good DLC? Which DLC is the good DLC? Which version of the game is better? Blargh.
=/

Don´t think that that applies to PS3 though or does it?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The servers are paid by the publishers...why not charge everyone for online multiplayer new and used?

these aren't meant to cover server costs. This is an attempt to get a piece of the HUGE used game market. Nothing more or less. And I can't blame them. It's a pretty easy and obvious way to do it, and it won't cost them a thing or hurt their own brand.

 

[fernoca]

What if you have multiple PS3s? or friends/family/flatmates who you sometimes share games with. I don't usually sell my games but I wouldn't buy MK with this online pass purely because I don't like the idea of it being activated once and then asking for more money if I pass the game on to my brother or let my flatmate play it.

Multiple PS3s? Activate the account on each PS3, which you probably already did. (depends on the game though)

Friends to share/lend? They can use the trial, if they're planning to play for weeks/months, then pay the $10 for the pass. if not, they can still play the rest of the entire game anyway​

In this game, you don't unlock specific things online (except achievements/trophies); so the only thing they're locking away for people that don't have a pass, is the option to play with people online. You still have access to the entire 28 characters roster, 30 stages, 300+ unlockables (pictures, art, etc.), Story Mode, Challenge Tower, offline coop (up to 4 players) and so on.

 

[Shambles]

Glad I'm getting out of console gaming when shit like this shows up. Does nothing but legitimize pirates and hurt the real people paying their salaries. If they want to sell half a game they can charge me half the price. So either i'm going to see it on the shelf for 30$ at launch, or easily walk right on by it. Guess which one it's going to be.

Funny to read all the morons in this thread who are being lead by the collar down this slippery slope trying to justify what these companies are trying to force down their throats.

here comes Hyperbole gaf. They are never gonna section off levels or single player portions with a pass. Think logically.

2005 GAF:

here comes Hyperbole gaf. They are never gonna section off multiplayer portions with a pass. Think logically.

2015 GAF:

here comes Hyperbole gaf. They are never gonna section off playtime per week with a pass. Think logically.

 

[Apath]

Hahahaha

Was going to buy a brand new copy on launch day, but because of this? I'm going to buy it used. Good thing too -- was considering making some friends chip in on the $60+ since they're probably going to play it more than me.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Glad I'm getting out of console gaming when shit like this shows up. Does nothing but legitimize pirates and hurt the real people paying their salaries. If they want to sell half a game they can charge me half the price. So either i'm going to see it on the shelf for 30$ at launch, or easily walk right on by it. Guess which one it's going to be.

Nothing you said is remotely relevant to the subject of online passes. Nobody is selling you half a game. You are being charged the same and getting the same content. Nothing changes. If you buy it used and buy half a game, take that up with Gamestop or the reseller, because you are buying it direct from them. If I sell you a 1991 Accord and it's a lemon, is that Honda's fault?

 

[Jackson]

Glad I'm getting out of console gaming when shit like this shows up. Does nothing but legitimize pirates and hurt the real people paying their salaries. If they want to sell half a game they can charge me half the price. So either i'm going to see it on the shelf for 30$ at launch, or easily walk right on by it. Guess which one it's going to be.

Funny to read all the morons in this thread who are being lead by the collar down this slippery slope trying to justify what these companies are trying to force down their throats.

If you buy the game new it is $60 and you get online and offline. If you buy it used it's $40, if you want to play the used game online it costs $10 more, thus $50.

What are you complaining about?

This has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with the used game market eating into publisher sales.

 

[LowParry]

Glad I'm getting out of console gaming when shit like this shows up. Does nothing but legitimize pirates and hurt the real people paying their salaries. If they want to sell half a game they can charge me half the price. So either i'm going to see it on the shelf for 30$ at launch, or easily walk right on by it. Guess which one it's going to be.

Funny to read all the morons in this thread who are being lead by the collar down this slippery slope trying to justify what these companies are trying to force down their throats.

Did you even read the topic and what people are talking about?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Well. Having read this. I have a simple thing to say. If WB joins in on this online pass bullshit they've lost a customer because they'll go on my do not buy list right along with EA and other companies pulling this bullshit.

 

[Shambles]

Did you even read the topic and what people are talking about?

The part where companies are so confident in consumers stupidity that they can start removing entire sections of a game they sell to you in order to sell it to you again? Yeah, that wasn't hard to get. And we thought paying space bucks for 100kb unlock codes for content already on disk was bad enough.

 

[Kintaro]

But you don't buy it expecting it to lock up, you buy it expecting you will be able to watch the movie no different than the new copy. If you buy a used car you can't expect it will be in the same condition as a new one, because the condition and wear and tear on a car matters a lot more than with a book or dvd.

You underestimate the stupidity of modern man my friend. =)

 

[DryEyeRelief]

For those complaining, keep in mind that the publisher isn't going to care. They wouldn't make a dime off your used game purchase, so why would they care if you're mad? If it forces you to buy new (or to DL the code), then and only then are you a customer in their eyes.

It doesn't affect the people who will buy this game used. The used price will go down to compensate for the online pass. The customers who want to resell the game are the actual ones that this is directed to. There's less of a reward to give this game to gamestop and you may be motivated to just put the game on a shelve when you're done with it.

 

[Jackson]

The part where companies are so confident in consumers stupidity that they can start removing entire sections of a game they sell to you in order to sell it to you again? Yeah, that wasn't hard to get. And we thought paying space bucks for 100kb unlock codes for content already on disk was bad enough.

Are you illiterate?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The part where companies are so confident that they can start removing entire sections of a game they sell to you in order to sell it to you again? Yeah, that wasn't hard to get. And we thought paying space bucks for 100kb unlock codes for content already on disk was bad enough.

But they aren't removing anything if you buy new. This will literally have zero effect if you buy the game new. If you buy it used you aren't their customer. Take it up with the person you bought it from.

Are you illiterate?

He doesn't have time to read he's busy pirating and hacking and sticking it to the man.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

Glad I'm getting out of console gaming when shit like this shows up. Does nothing but legitimize pirates and hurt the real people paying their salaries. If they want to sell half a game they can charge me half the price. So either i'm going to see it on the shelf for 30$ at launch, or easily walk right on by it. Guess which one it's going to be.

Funny to read all the morons in this thread who are being lead by the collar down this slippery slope trying to justify what these companies are trying to force down their throats.

Nothing what you have said is what we are discussing in this thread, you should actually see how much content MORTAL KOMBAT offers with its $60 price tag, much more than some games.

 

[Shambles]

Are you illiterate?

Illiterate enough to pretend your comments are worth reading.

 

[fernoca]

Glad I'm getting out of console gaming when shit like this shows up. Does nothing but legitimize pirates and hurt the real people paying their salaries. If they want to sell half a game they can charge me half the price. So either i'm going to see it on the shelf for 30$ at launch, or easily walk right on by it. Guess which one it's going to be.

Funny to read all the morons in this thread who are being lead by the collar down this slippery slope trying to justify what these companies are trying to force down their throats.

Legitimize pirates how? The same pirates that can't (normally) play online anyway? So this won't affect them in any case.

100% of this game is fully playable without the online pass. Online you use the exact content you play online, no more no less. The online pass is not required to advance the story, not required to unlock stuff, not required for anything, other than to play with people online.

Hahahaha

Was going to buy a brand new copy on launch day, but because of this? I'm going to buy it used. Good thing too -- was considering making some friends chip in on the $60+ since they're probably going to play it more than me.

So, what's the difference now. Unless you were planning on having 10 other friends to buy it.
But if it were only 2 other friends. 3 each at $20. You said you weren't going to play that much, so you'll be fine with just the trial.

The other 2, one will get the pass, the other one might need to shell out $10 if he really wants to play online. So that one ended paying $30 for that full game; instead of $60.

 

[DatBreh]

Ah, not its the same "experience."

This isn't really true either. A new DVD will probably work in your player out of the package. A used one may lock up in a spot or two where it wouldn't have before. Why? Wear and tear. That used book could be missing some pages. So on and so forth. What do you do when this happens? If you like it enough, you go out and buy a new one.

It is really not a given at all that one will receive the same experience, value, or whatever from a used product. However, that is something that is usually understood going into the act of purchasing used.

It all feels like one more pain in the ass to me. =/ Pay for more maps. Pay for more characters. Pay for extra costumes. Input more shit for DLC. Input shit for online passes so I can enable fucking PEER TO PEER. Which retailer do I buy from for the good DLC? Which DLC is the good DLC? Which version of the game is better? Blargh.

All for what? There isn't even any evidence these passes, extra DLC and shit even affects sales one bit.

=/

Except the PS3 version of Batman AA sold more than the 360 version. Im pretty sure the Joker DLC had a lot to do with that. Every retailer wants to sell more copies at their place of business and the good DLC certainly helps that.

 

[Apath]

Legitimize pirates how? The same pirates that can't (normally) play online anyway? So thsi won't affect them in any case.

100% of this game is fully playable without the online pass. Online you use the exact content you play online, no more no less. The online pass is not required to advance the story, not required to unlock stuff, not required for anything, other than to play with people online.

Which is a significant part of the game -- especially for a fighter. If I didn't suck so much at fighters, the lack of the ability to play online would hurt a lot.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

Except the PS3 version of Batman AA sold more than the 360 version.

Yeah i think that was an isolated case because the PS3 SLIM came out around that time.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Which is a significant part of the game -- especially for a fighter. If I didn't suck so much at fighters, the lack of the ability to play online would hurt a lot.

But you can play online if you buy the game new. They aren't taking anything away from their customers. They aren't selling you any less of a game than they would before.

 

[subversus]

lol

You get inconvenienced and the game you bought new is worth less. There is zero consumer benefit with these.

the main consumer benefit from this is that the next game will be made and it will have high production values.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

Which is a significant part of the game -- especially for a fighter. If I didn't suck so much at fighters, the lack of the ability to play online would hurt a lot.

When did online in a fighting game became relevant, do we even have a statistics or numbers that prove this, because for me playing a fighting game is with my bros over my place.

 

[LowParry]

Which is a significant part of the game -- especially for a fighter. If I didn't suck so much at fighters, the lack of the ability to play online would hurt a lot.

But you can play online. Be it new or used. Used is just a little extra work in putting in some money to pay for an online key where as the used copy you purchase will be less than retail price.

When did online in a fighting game became relevant, do we even have a statistics or numbers that prove this, because for me playing a fighting game is with my bros over my place.

To be fair, online is a pretty big deal these days. Arcades are a thing of the past. No many play fighters locally. If they do, that's great. But there's a majority out there that would rather play at home, online.

 

[Apath]

But you can play online if you buy the game new. They aren't taking anything away from their customers. They aren't selling you any less of a game than they would before.

This is going in circles.

He claims that the lack of a play pass doesn't gimp the game -- I argue it does. The fact is it's punishing people who go through a used outlet. Now however you justify that is one way or another. I am personally against practices that undermine consumers, and as such, am against this.

But you can play online. Be it new or used. Used is just a little extra work in putting in some money to pay for an online key where as the used copy you purchase will be less than retail price.

Buying used is buying a gimped product.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This is going in circles.

He claims that the lack of a play pass doesn't gimp the game -- I argue it does. The fact is it's punishing people who go through a used outlet. Now however you justify that is one way or another. I am personally against practices that undermine consumers, and as such, am against this.

But it's not undermining consumers, it's undermining Gamestop. If they don't lower their used game prices based on the fact that THEY are selling you a game with no online, they are the ones undermining consumers. I don't think anyone is getting punished. If you buy the game new and from the publisher (i.e. a sale that they get something out of) then you get everything. If you buy it used you are buying it used. That's your own risk and you are entering a sales contract with gamestop or the dude on craiglist or ebay. The publisher has nothing to do with it.

 

[fernoca]

Which is a significant part of the game -- especially for a fighter. If I didn't suck so much at fighters, the lack of the ability to play online would hurt a lot.

Yeah, but "his pirates" aren't able to play the game online anyway, so how does that legitimize pirating?

In your case, you'll be fine with the trial. It's a significant part when it comes to play with others, but the entire game can be played offline. And if you're into friend so much, 4 people can play at the same time together in the same room..without an online pass.

And the ones that care enough, will buy the game new..and get a pass. Nothing to lose.

 

[Glass Joe]

It doesn't affect the people who will buy this game used. The used price will go down to compensate for the online pass. The customers who want to resell the game are the actual ones that this is directed to. There's less of a reward to give this game to gamestop and you may be motivated to just put the game on a shelve when you're done with it.

I understand that it affects consumers who want to trade in / sell the game. I'm OK with that. The publisher has no reason to cater to someone who's reselling their product. In fact, I'm sure they'd rather not have the competition. But it's too bad that there's probably no way to verify whether or not a code has been used. If I buy Mortal Kombat new and decide it sucks, then instead of going online for no reason, I'd prefer to get the maximum trade value. That won't be possible.

I also understand that it affects resellers like Gamestop. Again, I'm okay with that. Publishers probably secretly hate places like that.

 

[LowParry]

This is going in circles.

He claims that the lack of a play pass doesn't gimp the game -- I argue it does. The fact is it's punishing people who go through a used outlet. Now however you justify that is one way or another. I am personally against practices that undermine consumers, and as such, am against this.

Alright. I get that. So even if the price of the used game is say $40, that extra cash out for online play is still unfair when people are willing to pay $50 - 60 new? It's a double edged sword really. I dunno. I see both sides yet I wouldn't have a problem of being on either.

 

[Apath]

But it's not undermining consumers, it's undermining Gamestop. If they don't lower their used game prices based on the fact that THEY are selling you a game with no online, they are the ones undermining consumers. I don't think anyone is getting punished. If you buy the game new and from the publisher (i.e. a sale that they get something out of) then you get everything. If you buy it used you are buying it used. That's your own risk and you are entering a sales contract with gamestop or the dude on craiglist or ebay. The publisher has nothing to do with it.

The fact is that buying the game used means (most likely) buying a game without online -- which is a gimped product. Thus it's punishing consumers who buy their games used.

Alright. I get that. So even if the price of the used game is say $40, that extra cash out for online play is still unfair when people are willing to pay $50 - 60 new? It's a double edged sword really. I dunno. I see both sides yet I wouldn't have a problem of being on either.

I agree -- I can definitely see the other side of the argument. This of course doesn't mean you can no longer save money buying used, it just means the publisher has to get an extra $10. I understand where the publishers are coming from, but it's harmful to me and my buying habits.

Yeah, but "his pirates" aren't able to play the game online anyway, so how does that legitimize pirating?

I didn't agree with the legitimizing pirating point.

In your case, you'll be fine with the trial. It's a significant part when it comes to play with others, but the entire game can be played offline. And if you're into friend so much, 4 people can play at the same time together in the same room..without an online pass.

And the ones that care enough, will buy the game new..and get a pass. Nothing to lose.

I personally won't be affected by this -- hence why I'm going to buy it used. But online play is a significant part of games these days; especially competitive multiplayer games like FPS, RTS, or fighters. Since it's such a significant part of the package, removing it from used players gives them a lesser experience. It punishes used buyers which was my entire point with my reply to your post.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

4 people can play at the same time together in the same room..without an online pass.
And the ones that care enough, will buy the game new..and get a pass. Nothing to lose.

This is what i like of MORTAL KOMBAT and underestimate people when they say that mortal kombat doesn´t has value.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The fact is that buying the game used means (most likely) buying a game without online -- which is a gimped product. Thus it's punishing consumers who buy their games used.

When you buy it used you aren't buying THEIR game. They've already sold it to the original consumer and satisfied their end of the contract by giving that person a full game. If you buy it 2nd hand and it's no longer complete that's not their problem.

 

[DatBreh]

This is going in circles.

He claims that the lack of a play pass doesn't gimp the game -- I argue it does. The fact is it's punishing people who go through a used outlet. Now however you justify that is one way or another. I am personally against practices that undermine consumers, and as such, am against this.

Buying used is buying a gimped product.

Why should a company care about someone who isnt one of their customers? Their obligation is to the customers who buy their products in a way they earn money from. You are not in that group so they should not care about your convenience.

You keep saying punishing consumers, YOU ARE NOT THEIR CONSUMER IF YOU BUY USED!

When these practices start interfering with customers who buy their products new i will be the first to complain.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

When you buy it used you aren't buying THEIR game. They've already sold it to the original consumer and satisfied their end of the contract by giving that person a full game. If you buy it 2nd hand and it's no longer complete that's not their problem.

Yeah i understand your thinking but people don´t see it like that.

 

[Glass Joe]

Shambles accidentally uncovered another great reason for publishers to do this. This is a deterrent to piracy. Pirates won't be able to play online without a code, after all, so they'd have incentive to buy the game (or at least a code).

 

[Apath]

When you buy it used you aren't buying THEIR game. They've already sold it to the original consumer and satisfied their end of the contract by giving that person a full game. If you buy it 2nd hand and it's no longer complete that's not their problem.

What the hell are you talking about? What difference does it make whose game it is? I understand that the publisher isn't seeing any profits of a used game sale, but it doesn't change the fact that by putting this system into place, it is punishing consumers who buy the game used.

This is just like Microsoft, instead of adding value to their Gold membership, instead took away features from Silver members, like demos without the current weak long delay. I understand where they are coming from, but I do not agree with the practice, as it's harmful to me as a consumer.

Why should a company care about someone who isnt one of their customers? Their obligation is to the customers who buy their products in a way they earn money from. You are not in that group so they should not care about your convenience.

You keep saying punishing consumers, YOU ARE NOT THEIR CONSUMER IF YOU BUY USED!

When these practices start interfering with customers who buy their products new i will be the first to complain.

Why should I care what benefits them any more than what benefits me? By your very logic we should be against this on the foundation of this taking away some of our power as a consumer.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yeah i understand your thinking but people don´t see it like that.

What's funny is that some people's response to this is "Fuck publishers! I'm buying it used just to spite them!" when in reality the used sellers are the ones ripping them off in this scenario. The new game market is completely unchanged by this. If you want to boycott anyone boycott gamestop if they keep selling used games for the same price.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What the hell are you talking about? What difference does it make whose game it is? I understand that the publisher isn't seeing any profits of a used game sale, but it doesn't change the fact that by putting this system into place, it is punishing consumers who buy the game used.

Re-read those two sentences. 100 times if you have to.

 

[Apath]

What's funny is that some people's response to this is "Fuck publishers! I'm buying it used just to spite them!" when in reality the used sellers are the ones ripping them off in this scenario. The new game market is completely unchanged by this. If you want to boycott anyone boycott gamestop if they keep selling used games for the same price.

I buy from GoHastings.com B2G1 $1 sales they have pretty often.

Telling someone they shouldn't "boycott" this because nothing will be changed by a couple people is like telling someone they shouldn't vote because one vote is nothing compared to the masses.

Re-read those two sentences. 100 times if you have to.

Yes? I already said I understand why they're doing this.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

But it's not undermining consumers, it's undermining Gamestop. If they don't lower their used game prices based on the fact that THEY are selling you a game with no online, they are the ones undermining consumers.

You know what. Screw it. I had a nice rant but you know what it won't mean a damn thing because for every person willing to stand up and say enough is enough there are 100 sheep bending over to say thank you, may I have another. So screw it.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yes? I already said I understand why they're doing this.

So then why do you expect them to have any obligation to you if you are not their consumer.

Does Honda owe you anything if you buy a used car from your neighbor?

Does Sony owe you anything if you buy a used TV off Craigslist?

Why do video game publishers have to be an exception?

You know what. Screw it. I had a nice rant but you know what it won't mean a damn thing because for every person willing to stand up and say enough is enough there are 100 sheep bending over to say thank you, may I have another. So screw it.

Fight the good fight, brother.

 

[Fantasmo]

The way I see it is that I lose value, because since they have to stick it to big bad Gamestop I not only take a $10-15 hit on my own resale value should I not enjoy it, but also still have to pay $60 AND have to convince friends to come to my house to play, AND can't bring it to my friend's house down the street for online play and hand the controller around.

Street Fighter 4 and Super Street Fighter 4 were great products and didn't employ this stuff, and they sold millions. Plus I got a bunch sold by bringing it to a different friends' houses.

So instead of $60 or potentially $120+ from my free marketing, they now get nothing. Too risky.

 

[Apath]

So then why do you expect them to have any obligation to you if you are not their consumer.

Does Honda owe you anything if you buy a used car from your neighbor?

Does Sony owe you anything if you buy a used TV off Craigslist?

Why do video game publishers have to be an exception?

You're arguing: Why they should/should not do this.
My argument: This act is harmful to me and other consumers, so I will vote with my dollar like a good consumer in a capitalist economy.

I don't disagree with what you're saying -- Warner Brother Games or whoever is publishing this owes me nothing as a consumer as long as they want my business. Since this practice is something that is harmful to consumers, I will vote with my dollar against it and not buy the game new.

 

[sixghost]

But it's not undermining consumers, it's undermining Gamestop. If they don't lower their used game prices based on the fact that THEY are selling you a game with no online, they are the ones undermining consumers. I don't think anyone is getting punished. If you buy the game new and from the publisher (i.e. a sale that they get something out of) then you get everything. If you buy it used you are buying it used. That's your own risk and you are entering a sales contract with gamestop or the dude on craiglist or ebay. The publisher has nothing to do with it.

Gamestop buys the game for $10 less, sells it used for $10 less. Online passes don't effect Gamestop one bit unless you want to argue that it would deter people from trading-in/buying the game used in the first place. If anything it might help them, as they will now have an excuse to badger you to buy MS points cards when you buy a game like this used.

I think someone said it earlier in the thread. Online passes do nothing but inconvenience the consumer. Even if you buy it new you get the fun of entering in a 30 digit code, and a game with reduced resale value.

 

[LowParry]

You know what. Screw it. I had a nice rant but you know what it won't mean a damn thing because for every person willing to stand up and say enough is enough there are 100 sheep bending over to say thank you, may I have another. So screw it.

Hey, millions over in COD land do it.