• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Rumor: Rockstar Lays Off 40 People From Red Dead Redemption Team

I always dreamed about going into game development but no way would I ever do it. If a game bombs, you're fired. If it does well, you're fired. If you've been around for 10 years and every game as been a success, you're fired.

Surely this type of thing will hurt game development with people avoiding it because of the horrible conditions.
 
Darklord said:
I always dreamed about going into game development but no way would I ever do it. If a game bombs, you're fired. If it does well, you're fired. If you've been around for 10 years and every game as been a success, you're fired.

Surely this type of thing will hurt game development with people avoiding it because of the horrible conditions.
Click to expand...

While sometimes it might seem like this sort of thing is the norm, bear in mind that the number of times this sort of thing happens is insignificant in comparison to the number of games being released.

In other words, you only hear about the bad stuff when bad stuff happens. When a game ships, successful or not, and nobody gets fired, it doesn't make the news.
 
TAYREL713 said:
Once the project concludes there is little to no need to retain that large a staff. When production on the next Rockstar San Diego project begins I am sure these men and women will be first on the list. It's not so much a fuck you for your hard work, more like our staffing needs at present cant handle such a large staff.
Click to expand...
but then those people should have been on short term contracts and paid at a higher rate to compensate the lack of security.
 
I blame Kotick.


Still, why aren't they contracted for 3/6 months? That way they will have a limited contract and no lay-offs would be possible. I thougth that was the most common thing, they contracted people in order to help finish/polish the game.

Or this is another Slowtaku "article"?
 
what the fuck, RDR is one of the best games I've ever played and its sold well. Was hoping these guys would be moving on to a new open world project soon

wtf R*
 
Well, if any consolation, it looks like the cuts were the typical cuts studios do after ramping up for a big production. People like testers, etc.
 
Shaka said:
This people, I read a long article on how this is an industry norm. Don't be alarmed.
Click to expand...

People can be alarmed at the fact that it's an industry norm, I just wouldn't want them to think that this is some particular cause for alarm specifically about R* San Diego :p
 
Seeing how long the game has been in development, I can see what they might have not broken even.

I believe it's the last game to be released from all the games from that Sony E3 2005 CG fest conference.
 
TAYREL713 said:
Once the project concludes there is little to no need to retain that large a staff. When production on the next Rockstar San Diego project begins I am sure these men and women will be first on the list. It's not so much a fuck you for your hard work, more like our staffing needs at present cant handle such a large staff.
Click to expand...


I think this says it all on the first page. This is normal for anything in the entertainment industry. What happens to actors when a movie is finished? or when a huge housing developement is finished? People have to go until they are needed again.

Good call....
 
Cornbread78 said:
I think this says it all on the first page. This is normal for anything in the entertainment industry. What happens to actors when a movie is finished? or when a huge housing developement is finished? People have to go until they are needed again.

Good call....
Click to expand...
This was my thought exactly (your link to entertainment industry). You see some actors working with same directors and such, but the reality is that they don't always fit the role.

Same thing for game development. Sometimes people don't have the same beliefs and ideas about an upcoming project (was a long article about that in EGMs recent MK cover mag) so they move along.
OR simply were hired for a game and if they made the cut to continue on -- then so be it. It's essentially the same idea as a "seasonal job" at a retailer. You're there to fill their needs, and when done, if they like you, you might stay.

I personally know someone in the Comic industry as well, and I will tell you it's the same exact way. Has worked for DC, Marvel, and a handful of other companies..including his own (which went under), but in the end -- after 30+ years of experience, he's just found it easier to remain freelance and work with the big companies as needed.

I'm not saying getting told you won't have a job is all daisies and fine, but I believe a lot of the people know this going into the gig.
 
:/

Draft said:
AAA game development.
Click to expand...
.

Stumpokapow said:
Err, this isn't a catastrophic layoff. They're not laying them off because their game sold poorly. They're laying them off because it takes a lot more people to finish a game than it does to pre-produce a game.
Click to expand...
.


Stumpokapow said:
Even when the industry was seeing much much much better days, there was a general cycle of hiring people for productions and laying them off afterward. This is very normal for the industry, for better or for worse. If anything, patches, maintenance, and DLC have ensured that this kind of imbalance in headcount is less of an issue now than ever because the kinds of people who would have been laid off now do a lot of jobs after game releases.
Click to expand...
Well that's true, but then again, with the way team sizes have ramped up during the last and especially this generation, there's still a lot more people getting laid off after a big project then, say, a decade ago.


edit: it actually doesn't really make sense to compare numbers with how much the industry has grown since then, but still.
 
Warm Machine said:
Who the hell expects a western to do anything near a contemporary game? It is almost a complete unknown genre. The numbers they did get are stunningly good and far more than I could have ever fathomed.
Click to expand...

Really? It didn't surprise me. The problem with western, pirates, samurai, etc settings is not that people don't care about them, is that the vast majority of past games set in those eras were shit. And then people look at the sales of shitty games and say "the setting doesn't sell". Just look at Patcher: expecting ALAN WAKE to be a blockbuster and RDR to bomb because "europeans don't care about westerns". Believe me, a R* game with a Pirate theme would sell even more than RDR. All it takes is a big name (Rockstar), the production values and ambition.

As for aproaching GTA sales, that's difficult, because it doesn't matter how good the game is, GTA is vastly overhyped and a significant portion of sales are made on that basis alone.
 
-PXG- said:
Yeah, I need something with more stability and security. Game development isn't that, especially at entry level. Maybe if I was a vet and had some years under my belt.

One small studio in Canada wanted to hire me, but decided not to, since it wasn't worth the time to have me relocated. But who knows, I could have payed for me relocation to Canada (I live in the US) only to be laid-off after the game was shipped. Yeah, that would have been really bad. Terribad. :lol
Click to expand...

Well, I can tell you that I personaly think I may get into this business, but I have absolutely no desire to be hired by anyone. If I do end up getting into this (and since I'm unempliyed at the moement I can just as well do it) it will be on my time with a group of other hardworking people, doying our thing and going the route of smaller, indy projects, sold digitally online and for PC, with maybe PSN/XBL as a future aim, as well as iPhone, etc.

It's much more secure if you do it right and without betting all your cards on it. But if what you want is to go the AAA route with big publishers/developers....well, prepare yourself to a life of uncertainty.
 
Stumpokapow said:
People can be alarmed at the fact that it's an industry norm, I just wouldn't want them to think that this is some particular cause for alarm specifically about R* San Diego :p
Click to expand...
Well yeah the industry definitely needs to change.
 
The core of the team is full time, and likely all of the hires made during the stages at which production ramped up were contractors. Meaning your time with the project and the company is finite. You may receive extensions depending on how the project goes, or you may not and you'll simply move on. There are advantages and disadvantages to being a contractor.

If the project and company are a gongshow you can opt out of further extension offers and ply your trade elsewhere.
 
Kind of sucks that they just released one if the best games of the year so far and have now been laid off. Hopefully they can find work somewhere else.
 
rainking187 said:
So I guess in the video game industry it's:
Game sells less than expected-Fire people.
Game sells better than expected-Fire people.
Click to expand...
..almost like you're getting paid by the job!

=8-o
 
I'm seriously thinking of joining a company that offers it's services to other studios instead
of working inside a studio. That means no bonuses, but at least you'll get treated with respect.
 
That's a bummer to hear. Best of luck to the folks affected.

If any of you are reading this and you're willing to relocate up to sunny Seattle, Microsoft Game Studios is hiring aplenty.

PM me for more details.
 
It's more a case that game production is run incredibly poorly. It's an immature industry.

I remember hearing that Splinter Cell Double Agent had like 400 people working on it at Ubisoft Montreal at peak- that's fucking poor management.

I almost wonder if they throw people at problems when shit gets tough instead of investing in people and managing a stable of talented people. There is also a bad structure to the way the whole thing works, with producers being held by the balls so they in turn hold the team by the balls. Internally everyone seems to be working against each other to deliver a product beyond the competition.
 
Visualante said:
I remember hearing that Splinter Cell Double Agent had like 400 people working on it at Ubisoft Montreal at peak- that's fucking poor management.
Click to expand...

It's assassin's creed 2. And this was 400 devs through out the world.
 
afternoon delight said:
... or recognized that it's employment and nothing is set in stone, nor fair.
Click to expand...
Then I guess the studio will just have to hope there's a never ending supply of competent, experienced employees for them to screw over as they surely won't want to return.
 
Those of you questioning the break-even point for RDR should know that, more often than not, a game's marketing budget is included in that figure.

The game had one of, if not THE most prolific campaigns I've seen in my life. You literally couldn't go more than 2 blocks without seeing a billboard/bus stop or other ad in many major cities. That kind of coverage costs $$$ and I'm sure played a significant role in the success of the product, for better or worse.

As previously noted in this thread, these types of layoffs happen all the time. You don't have to feel good about them, but they're pretty standard. That said, I've heard some TRULY horrifying things about the working conditions at R*SD and hope that those who lost their jobs can use this as an opportunity to find something more stable/reasonable.
 
I know this sting all too well, having just gone through it myself recently from somewhere else. I've always joked with friends that the entertainment industry is one of the few that reward a good job with a pinkslip. Good luck to those affected, hopefully they land on their feet.
 
One of the biggest issues in the industry is the fact that studios can't entertain a lot of employees for huge amounts of time because their jobs are tailor-cut to late production stages.

There are ways of dealing with that without firing people, obviously. I guess even the big ones aren't ready for that yet though. Which is bad form.
 
When the credits came up when passing RDR, it felt like movie credits x2. The staff was freaking huge on that game as well as all the outsourcing.

Having only a small portion get laid off isn't so bad. Also, no one knows what their next project is(Maybe it is known, I have no idea really), so finding places for everyone might not be in the cards.

I think people are reading into this way too much. Many industries need to hire a lot of people to get thru a contract/project. Layoffs after the fact is just the way it is.

RDR was a great game made by a lot of talented people. Props to them.
 
Pinzer said:
So if Rockstar's NY headquarters is the eye of Sauron, then the San Diego studio is Saruman? Which means San Diego is Isengard, which makes sense because Redwood Forest = Fangorn, and these layoffs are the ents siege of Isengard!!! It all makes complete sense!
Click to expand...

well actually, wall street is mordor and DC is isengard. that other stuff are just some orc hideaways.

and i hope this isn't true. if it is, i'm gonna boycott rockstar and pretend by doing so it matters.
 
Wouldn't this just amount to shrinkage after the game was released? I mean it's a huge game and they probably took on a lot of people just to finish it. You know, contract work?

I doubt that the core Red Dead/Midnight Club team was affected that much, if at all.
 
milkyjay20 said:
well actually, wall street is mordor and DC is isengard. that other stuff are just some orc hideaways.

and i hope this isn't true. if it is, i'm gonna boycott rockstar and pretend by doing so it matters.
Click to expand...
Ummm, why would you boycott Rockstar games when people are being laid off(which is a fairly normal occurence at the end of development cycles)? Especially when Rockstar isn't a publisher and is just a collection of different development studios under a banner name.
 
Madman said:
Ummm, why would you boycott Rockstar games when people are being laid off(which is a fairly normal occurence at the end of development cycles)? Especially when Rockstar isn't a publisher and is just a collection of different development studios under a banner name.
Click to expand...


Actually, R* is also a publisher. They're publishing LA Noire, for example.
 
2K is really being bad with the layoffs lately- first Firaxis now Rockstar. It's like they're an Acti-in-training or something.
 
Gorgon said:
Actually, R* is also a publisher. They're publishing LA Noire, for example.
Click to expand...
HungryHorace said:
It's fully owned by Take 2 so, effectively, it is a publisher.
Click to expand...
How does this work? Do they have actual control over purse strings?

My original question still stands obviously.
 
Hopefully, developers that have a history of doing this to their employees will not be sought out by game designers. They'll go to Valve, or other houses that don't treat them like shit.
 
Madman said:
How does this work? Do they have actual control over purse strings?

My original question still stands obviously.
Click to expand...
Would you be happy if he'd said he'd boycott T2? Don't really see the difference myself but if it keeps you happy.
 
bryehn said:
Wouldn't this just amount to shrinkage after the game was released? I mean it's a huge game and they probably took on a lot of people just to finish it. You know, contract work?

I doubt that the core Red Dead/Midnight Club team was affected that much, if at all.
Click to expand...
Expired contracts wouldn't be catagorized as layoffs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Take-Two lays off AI team
News 
6
244
Jet Set Willy replied
LTTP: Red Dead Redemption 2
2
76
2K
Heimdall_Xtreme replied
Red Dead Redemption 2 modder creates the perfect open-world game by turning Rockstar masterwork into Elden Ring
Trailer Indie 
5
178
CuteFaceJay replied
  • Locked
Red Dead Redemption 2 Enhanced Edition
News Rumor  2 3
111
2K
Mr Hyde replied
The next-gen version of Red Dead Redemption 2 won't come until late 2027
Rumor Platform 
11
479
MidGenRefresh replied
Top Bottom