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Rumor: Wii U final specs

Thanks, I had too. I also see if it's a bad rumor about the PS4 or Xbox 720 people say "yeah this rumor is not true at all" but if it's a good rumor about them it's "this is true for sure" but that's what I see, I don't know about you guys.
There are, at the very least, three groups of people (actually there are more and in the end it's all about individuals, but whatever, let's keep it simple):

Group 1: Believes any positive rumor about the PS4 no matter what, discredits/ignores any negative rumor about the PS4.

Group 2: Believes any positive rumor about the 720 no matter what, discredits/ignores any negative rumor about the 720.

Group 3: Believes any positive rumor about the Wii U no matter what, discredits/ignores any negative rumor about the Wii U.

If someone can't see all the groups, he's part of the problem.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
RE: AMD email

Is it possible some xbot intercepted these emails and impersonated AMD customer service email to fool the questioners?
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Someone ought to ask via paper mail and see if they get a different response.
 

Ryoku

Member
RE: AMD email

Is it possible some xbot intercepted these emails and impersonated AMD customer service email to fool the questioners?
The two responses we've seen so far have been different. A bot wouldn't be able to do that (it'd be the same exact response). Zora's email was in question form, to which the AMD representative replied with "That's correct."
 
The idea that AMD tech support is privy to knowledge on an unreleased product for which they won't even be providing support for and have no qualms violating strict NDA is absurd.

I cannot fathom why anyone is taking these emails seriously beyond a huge dose of confirmation bias.
 

The_Lump

Banned
The idea that AMD tech support is privy to knowledge on an unreleased product for which they won't even be providing support for and have no qualms violating strict NDA is absurd.

I cannot fathom why anyone is taking these emails seriously beyond a huge dose of confirmation bias.

Yeah it's more than a bit fishy. But why would a random customer support rep have plucked that gpu out of the air? It almost perfectly matches what some trusty people deem likely in the console (I'm assuming 'modified' means lower clock, smaller die and not with the whole mcm package, just the gpu alone).

Either the CS rep reads gaf, or somehow they innocently found the info. Or the 3x people that have now received that same reply are lying.
 
The idea that AMD tech support is privy to knowledge on an unreleased product for which they won't even be providing support for and have no qualms violating strict NDA is absurd.

I cannot fathom why anyone is taking these emails seriously beyond a huge dose of confirmation bias.

Should I make a CamStudio video showing my process and showing me opening the emails? Would that be enough to convince you? It's possible the rep is mistaken but I will bet a ban that I didn't fabricate the emails
 

pramath

Banned
Should I make a CamStudio video showing my process and showing me opening the emails? Would that be enough to convince you? It's possible the rep is mistaken but I will bet a ban that I didn't fabricate the emails

Actually, that's not a bad idea. Go for it.
 
Should I make a CamStudio video showing my process and showing me opening the emails? Would that be enough to convince you? It's possible the rep is mistaken but I will bet a ban that I didn't fabricate the emails

He's not saying the email is fake. He's saying AMD Support wouldn't know anything about the gpu.
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Yeah it's more than a bit fishy. But why would a random customer support rep have plucked that gpu out of the air? It almost perfectly matches what some trusty people deem likely in the console (I'm assuming 'modified' means lower clock, smaller die and not with the whole mcm package, just the gpu alone).

Either the CS rep reads gaf, or somehow they innocently found the info. Or the 3x people that have now received that same reply are lying.

Did you not read the emails that are being sent, they specifically asked if they were using the e6760, it wasn't 'plucked out of the air'.

Additionally we have already had another AMD employee post at Beyond3D that the Tech Support team do not know which product has gone into the Wii U, and that in fact even the majority of the GPU engineering teams at AMD do not know either, and that only a small amount of them that specifically worked on the design are in the know and none of them are talking about it.

But, probably better to ignore that and come up with theories about why is must be true, I guess. :p
 
I'm not saying you fabricated any email.

I'm saying that the person who sent you the email isn't conceivably privy to this sort of information.

To believe they are is to be deliberately obtuse to the implausibility and ridiculousness.
Yeah it's more than a bit fishy. But why would a random customer support rep have plucked that gpu out of the air? It almost perfectly matches what some trusty people deem likely in the console (I'm assuming 'modified' means lower clock, smaller die and not with the whole mcm package, just the gpu alone).

Either the CS rep reads gaf, or somehow they innocently found the info. Or the 3x people that have now received that same reply are lying.
No "trusty person" has ever deemed the E6760 likely - if you're referring to bg, I believe he just thought it may be somewhat similar.

GAF -> Tech Support -> GAF
 
But why would a random customer support rep have plucked that gpu out of the air? It almost perfectly matches what some trusty people deem likely in the console

Too me whenever something like this perfectly matches the (obscure) rumors, it sometimes makes me wonder if the rumors werent the source rather than vice versa.

I had the same feeling when I was "interrogating" that DaE guy about the Durango dev kit. Sometimes I had a feeling what he was telling me matched too well with the rumors. As if he knew what I expected to hear.

Who's to say this guy answering the email doesn't read GAF, or even go on youtube videogame videos about the Wii U?
 
Too me whenever something like this perfectly matches the (obscure) rumors, it sometimes makes me wonder if the rumors werent the source rather than vice versa.

I had the same feeling when I was "interrogating" that DaE guy about the Durango dev kit. Sometimes I had a feeling what he was telling me matched too well with the rumors. As if he knew what I expected to hear.

Who's to say this guy answering the email doesn't read GAF, or even go on youtube videogame videos about the Wii U?

This is getting into some crazy conspiracy theory territory...
 
Let's talk about crazy.

A) Random tech support are privy to NDA'd information on an unreleased product they will never provide tech support on and can disclose it at their leisure.

B) Random tech support aren't privy to NDA'd information on an unreleased product they will never provide tech support on and even if privy, despite how implausible, wouldn't disclose it.

One of these throws reason and common sense out the window.
 

The_Lump

Banned
Did you not read the emails that are being sent, they specifically asked if they were using the e6760, it wasn't 'plucked out of the air'.

Additionally we have already had another AMD employee post at Beyond3D that the Tech Support team do not know which product has gone into the Wii U, and that in fact even the majority of the GPU engineering teams at AMD do not know either, and that only a small amount of them that specifically worked on the design are in the know and none of them are talking about it.

But, probably better to ignore that and come up with theories about why is must be true, I guess. :p


Havnt read the sent email, no. Do you have a link? If that's the case then agreed, it wasn't plucked out of the air.

If someone hasn't read all the info or you feel the need to advise them of something, then you can do so in a friendly fashion. I'm not personally vested in the Wii U having a e6760, so there would be no reason for me to "come up with theories as to why it must be true". I'm merely voicing my ideas/opinions, as are you and as is the b3d poster you're referring to. This is a forum. Forums are for discussing :D

I'm not saying you fabricated any email.

I'm saying that the person who sent you the email isn't conceivably privy to this sort of information.

To believe they are is to be deliberately obtuse to the implausibility and ridiculousness.
No "trusty person" has ever deemed the E6760 likely - if you're referring to bg, I believe he just thought it may be somewhat similar.

GAF -> Tech Support -> GAF

That's what I'm saying. That it's likely to be something along these lines. Sorry, may have worded it wrong, but that's what I meant. And not just bg, others have mentioned along the way that its likely very close to this sort of gpu.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Should I make a CamStudio video showing my process and showing me opening the emails? Would that be enough to convince you? It's possible the rep is mistaken but I will bet a ban that I didn't fabricate the emails

Unless you're making the bet with a mod what's the point? Just last week Wario64 bet a ban that Brad from Giant Bomb wouldnt get the Mile High Club achievement, and Wario lost, but nothing happened.
 
Oh there were people. There are still probably people clinging to the idea that there's some huge server CPU just waiting to melt their Wii U the moment they turn it on.
That's what I'm saying. That it's likely to be something along these lines. Sorry, may have worded it wrong, but that's what I meant. And not just bg, others have mentioned along the way that its likely very close to this sort of gpu.
I know what you're saying - that the E6760 was brought up as something similar to what Nintendo might end up with.

General consistent sentiment has, afaik, been that it's adapted an R7__ base and that it's DirectX 10.1 equivalent with additional features, and that it's also likely to use DDR3. I don't think any of those in the know have indicated this has changed.
 
I'd rather have people call into question the legitimacy of the info than the legitimacy of my pictures which are real
People aren't calling into question your receiving of a genuine email. Or at least I'm not.

But one has to be incredibly credulous to believe the actual message from Tech Support.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Are they? I can edit my comment if they are...all I'm saying is that I'd rather have people call into question the legitimacy of the info than the legitimacy of my pictures which are real
I believe you. However:

- There's a very small chance that that's the chip Wii U uses.
- There's a much smaller chance that, if above is true, a random tech support guy would know the info.

My guess is that the support guy is BS you or trying to be helpful by giving information he found out... from GAF. :)
 

The_Lump

Banned
Oh there were people. There are still probably people clinging to the idea that there's some huge server CPU just waiting to melt their Wii U the moment they turn it on.
I know what you're saying - that the E6760 was brought up as something similar to what Nintendo might end up with.

General consistent sentiment has, afaik, been that it's adapted an R7__ base and that it's DirectX 10.1 equivalent with additional features, and that it's also likely to use DDR3. I don't think any of those in the know have indicated this has changed.


Well, some have said the rv700 was a placeholder for something still in development (we know the gpu was finished in Jan/Feb 2012) I think wsippel noted a couple days ago that the gpu was possibly having yeild problems, which could imply whatever it is it's not 40nm. And the additional GPRs Matt mentioned could apparently imply Nintendo trying to seek closer parity with dx11 (from b3d). Arkham confirmed SM 4.0 was a basis point, and the final hardware will likely acheive higher. (We also know the connection between the green hills compiler being used in both Wii U and e6760, but I'm not sure of its significance) All highly speculative, but these tidbits of info do add up and paint a bigger picture.

My 2 cents. I didnt think it's a e6760. I think it's plausible that its descended from the production process that resulted in the e6760 (Nintendo said to AMD "hey we want a gpu which can do this", AMD said "hmmm, we have something in the pipeline which fits the bill which will be ready in 2012, let's use that as a starting point. In the meantime this Rv700 should give you roughly the same raw performance")
 
Having worked in a call center, etc before, all I can say it is highly likely that they are getting paid jack shit and will just tell people what they want to hear. I highly doubt it's some sort of silly conspiracy
 
I'm not saying you fabricated any email.

I'm saying that the person who sent you the email isn't conceivably privy to this sort of information.
No "trusty person" has ever deemed the E6760 likely - if you're referring to bg, I believe he just thought it may be somewhat similar.

GAF -> Tech Support -> GAF


Quite true, whatever the chip is, might be similar in efficiency as the e6760, but will have different features in the architecture designed and customised for wii u.

Placeholder chips in devkits serve to simulate the final environment of the retail system but are only there as a workaround until final retail chips are released in the devkits which happened only a couple of months ago.

There is a possibility that a 4850 and an e6760 may have been used in an early devkit at one stage of the console development cycle as a placeholder so maybe thats where the rumours come from, but the final silicon will be customised optimised and more efficient. However, customisation and optimisation does not mean the final chips will be faster or slower or the same performance as the placeholder cards, as that is determined by the final clocks nintendo will use to balance heat and stability of system.

We get confused with TFLOP ratings but if we go on the rating used originally based on the r700 series in 2008 then we are looking at something around 1TFLOP as the maximum you can expect from the gpu.
If you look at the rating by 2012 standards then it will be something around the 540-600 GFLOP mark. Those who might want to compare the gpu to console perspectives can say the gpu might be 5x xenon as the HD4850 is around that ballpark when taking the more advanced architecture and gflop rating into consideration compared to the 2005 xenon chip at 240GFLOP

Having 5x the gpu processing is balanced out however because the wii u cpu will be clocked lower than the ps3 or xbox 360 cpu's and perform at most 2x faster as it will be helped by having coprocessors such as a dsp and an arm chip for i/o as well as the gpgpu functions of the GPU. Coupled with having OoOE, 2GB of ram and having a large cache and edram the system synergystically could perform between 3x-4x faster than the xbox 360 while also taking the gamepad into consideration. Which means in realistic terms 720p at 60fps with 4x AA and twice the number of effects compared to last generation. but not much more than that or 1080p with slightly more effects compared to last gen at 30fps. What this might mean subjectively depending on how you see things may not be such a large visual jump but it would be joy to play console games in these settings i can assure you of that.

It can be said that the wii u can be seen by comparing it to be a gamecube to wii progression in relation to the ps360. But if wii was a full generational leap by gamecube standards when it released in 2006 it still would have only been around half the power of the 360 if it released at a $249 price point and maling profit. Going from there it is natural to see the progression that the wii u is now starting to reveal itself to be.

Compared to a mythical full graphical generational leap original wii which would have been around 120GFLOPS in 2006, we are probably looking at a gpu slightly faster than a 4850 in speed for a full generational leap for the wii u while also taking an extra year into consideration and the additional evolution in effects that modern gpu's now provide. All while maintaining the price under 300 when taking the gamepad into consoderation and at least breaking even on launch day.
 

ozfunghi

Member
Actually... what are the options to start from the e4690?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4307/amd-launches-radeon-e6760

Architecture = RV730 (RV7xx was it, right?)
TDP = 25 W
Process = TSMC 55nm

Could easily be scaled down, lower the wattage... could ALU's be added? Clockspeed dropped?

So someone on B3D has also now uttered to possibility of this chip. Anyone of the more tech savvy folk care to chime in? Matt said the final WiiU GPU had less GPR's than the E6760. The E4690 even consumes less power while on 55nm. And the architecture is a better match according to the leaked specs. Could Nintendo have taken this chip and shrunk it, while adding some features, maybe more SPU's?
 

FyreWulff

Member
A couple of podcasts have suggested Nintendo is making a mistake by not bundling in a Wiimote. But I don't see why that would be when the last six consoles all only came with one controller. And most of them didn't let you use controllers from previous generations.

They all fell asleep when Reggied pointed out that there's already 100 million Wiimotes floating out there. It's more like buying a new console for your Wiimote than buying a Wiimote for your Wii U in terms of marketshare.
 
It comes with a game that requires it for multiplayer.

But that's like saying you needed a second Wiimote to play multiplayer on Wii Sports.
But you shouldn't forget that a strong marketing and saling point of the system is it's local assymetrical gameplay capability. However, Nintendo did get away in some regions by not selling the 3DS LL with a power supply which is even more outrageous than this.

So to sum up, complains critisizing Nintendo for not including the Wiiremote (at least in the 350 SKU) are reasonable.
 
I guess the question is who started the rumor in the first place?

It's crazy. It didn't start as a rumor. This is where it all started.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37795868&postcount=7756

And here were my next two posts about it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37796165&postcount=7763

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37802086&postcount=7906


Somehow as time passed with random discussions where other tidbits (i.e. me finding an AMD PR about the E6760's design emphasizing general processing, and Azak, I believe, talking about Green Hill and their involvement with the GPU) were talked about here and there. It eventually left the WUST and went from just being a comparison GPU to being the "actual" GPU or a modified version being in Wii U.
 
I rarely post in here, but I always lurk. In regards to the AMD email, whether it ends up true or not, I would put almost 0 weight in the AMD Tech Support Rumor. I Manage Tier I and Tier II Support for a Software Company. Tier I Support is mainly made up of people that have little training and its frequently outsourced to a separate company. Really doubt that they would have any kind of information in regards to the Wii U's GPU is. Just my opinion from someone in the Tech Support field.
 
I'm sure reps from AMD have seen this thread and would've fired everyone attached to that ticket # if that were true. Info getting out, false or true, is a huge huge HUGE no-no in tech support. Even moreso if it may be a trade secret. I've personally had to fire tech support reps for speaking out of their boundaries.
 
It's crazy. It didn't start as a rumor. This is where it all started.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37795868&postcount=7756

And here were my next two posts about it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37796165&postcount=7763

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37802086&postcount=7906


Somehow as time passed with random discussions where other tidbits (i.e. me finding an AMD PR about the E6760's design emphasizing general processing, and Azak, I believe, talking about Green Hill and their involvement with the GPU) were talked about here and there. It eventually left the WUST and went from just being a comparison GPU to being the "actual" GPU or a modified version being in Wii U.

Goodness, I've been meaning to post for the longest time that I was the one who initially dug up some press from last year on the e6760, which was being targeted at casino machines and such. I sent it to you via PM because I thought it was a good indicator of what kind of chip AMD could put together for low power solutions. I had typed in "MCM" among other things in a search and it popped up.

That now all these rumors are being formed around that is really quite amazing. It's all foolishness too. We know as fact that the GPU will be CUSTOM. Also that MCM includes a gig of GDDR5, and all signs point to "No" as far as that type of RAM goes in Wii U.

I still believe we can use the e6760 as a piece of evidence as to what AMD could achieve within a given wattage. That's at 40nm, RAM included, and clocked at 600 Mhz. Shrink it to 32nm, subtract that RAM from the total, and downclock it to 480 Mhz (while adding only 160 shaders) and I think you could get the chip to around 25 Watts.
 
I'm sure reps from AMD have seen this thread and would've fired everyone attached to that ticket # if that were true. Info getting out, false or true, is a huge huge HUGE no-no in tech support. Even moreso if it may be a trade secret. I've personally had to fire tech support reps for speaking out of their boundaries.

I agree. All of our Tech Support are required to sign NDA's.
 
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