Nicktendo86
Member
Saw a debate on newsnight last night in the UK, some nutty Russian woman was comparing gay men to sex offenders. Not surprised this has passed if her views are widespread.
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Russia : Anti-Gay bill passes with 436-0 votes
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Aeriscloud
Banned
Wow, Fuck Russia.
This makes me feel very sick.
This makes me feel very sick.
It's funny for decades Americans railed against Russians/Soviets as godless communists. And that they were evil because they didn't embrace religion or Christianity. Now that they are heavily orthodox or religious again, now they are portrayed as nutjobs.
I think a lot of you folks need to see the real world more. Get outside the West. If Russia, India, and China are the future economic and military powers, take a look at their track records on a lot of things you folks think are universal such as human rights and tolerance.
India is a democracy, good luck trying to get gay rights there. I think the word itself is hilarious. How is Russia really any less democratic than the US? However shoddy the election was or how scared people were, Putin won the majority vote and has a high rating. You hear over and over again about how Putin used his influence to win over oligarchs and elites and used his connections to broadcast positive messages. How is that any different than what happens in the US elections? Don't people like Romney use their high connections to fund campaigns, or doesn't Obama use his influence in things like getting celebrities to promote him etc.
But that's all irrelevant. I'm saying a lot of folks here live almost in a bubble. Because you see/live one way, it's probably the same all over. Take a look at the US for example. Try getting gay marriage passed in Texas and then compare it to Russia.
North America and Western Europe, the only true tolerant and safe places for gay/lesbian rights pretty much.
You think racism in America is shocking to you, and how it's 2013, in India, there is still widespread and mainstream discrimination against slightly darker people. Not of a different race but the darker you are the worse you bare treated.
I think a lot of you folks need to see the real world more. Get outside the West. If Russia, India, and China are the future economic and military powers, take a look at their track records on a lot of things you folks think are universal such as human rights and tolerance.
India is a democracy, good luck trying to get gay rights there. I think the word itself is hilarious. How is Russia really any less democratic than the US? However shoddy the election was or how scared people were, Putin won the majority vote and has a high rating. You hear over and over again about how Putin used his influence to win over oligarchs and elites and used his connections to broadcast positive messages. How is that any different than what happens in the US elections? Don't people like Romney use their high connections to fund campaigns, or doesn't Obama use his influence in things like getting celebrities to promote him etc.
But that's all irrelevant. I'm saying a lot of folks here live almost in a bubble. Because you see/live one way, it's probably the same all over. Take a look at the US for example. Try getting gay marriage passed in Texas and then compare it to Russia.
North America and Western Europe, the only true tolerant and safe places for gay/lesbian rights pretty much.
You think racism in America is shocking to you, and how it's 2013, in India, there is still widespread and mainstream discrimination against slightly darker people. Not of a different race but the darker you are the worse you bare treated.
That belief is pretty wide spread in America as well.
Acting like a similar bill wouldn't get a decent amount of support in the US congress is being naive.
That's humanity for you. I've never understood this personally. And I have 'personal' reasons. But since when is the passage of time seen as progress only and not regression? I see it used all the time.
It's 2013, it's not 1953 etc. As if the passage of time changes it permanently. Would you say abortion rights are better now in a lot of states or better back then? Do people honestly believe things can't go back to the way they were? It's the nature of humanity. Sometimes change takes time, sometimes it's rapid. But change can also mean regression.
Going to be an interesting latter half of this century to see the way humanity changes, if at all.
Shadow2222
Member
Disgusting. I never knew they were so opposed to gay rights. Scratch that off my possible travel list.
It could get several votes, but it would never pass; let alone unanimously.
Sure there is. There are at least five posters from Russia, actually.
I apologise in advance for the long rant, but I thought it might be interesting for someone.
As for the bill — that's what you get for 70 years of the Soviet rule and 20 more years of weird interim. One essential thing that needs to be understood about modern Russian history is that there were no revolution, no lustration like in Poland and the Czech Republic, hence a lot of the people who were in power back in the USSR still run the country today, in exactly the same crooked ways and with the exact same corrupt mindset. Those Communist officials who were most profoundly atheistic also suddenly became extremely and publicly religious (and stopped being Communist, too). This made the state machine corrupt, self-contained and often ineffective from way one, in fact all of those features just carried over from the old Communist state.
It's also interesting to consider the reasons behind people disliking homosexuals. They, of course, are also mostly connected to the Soviet mindset and not religion. Homosexuality was decriminalised only 20 years ago and up until then 500-1000 people were getting up to 5 years in prison annualy (about a 1000 per year till late 1980s, 538 in 1989, 497 in 1990, 462 in 1991, 227 in the first half of 1992 according to the wikipedia article). On top of that, homosexuality was often assaulted by official propaganda. How do you suppose people who lived in that environment for the entirety of their lives treat it like a normal thing?
As a result, the majority of the population is, indeed, homophobic, especially older people. Anecdotal evidence suggests that younger people tend to be more accepting of it, and it is the normal state of things after all, so it should get better once a generation or two pass.
Where did this bill even come from? Well, the president and his supporters (and, by extension, the parliament which does the president's bidding anyhow) not only bear the quintessence of this very specific Soviet mindset, but are also very nostalgic of the USSR itself. All of these new laws and slight attunements are a consequence of that. Of course they can't bring the Soviet Union back, the tide has long since turned, but getting the current country even closer to it in small details is likely their purpose. By the way, it's not that all the people have the Soviet mindset — some were able to change and then there's a new generation of people who never lived in the USSR on the way, and there are some signs of change here and there thanks to that.
Thanks for this post. It's always useful to put things in perspective. Honestly, what worries me the most isn't a law approved by an old oligarchy, it's the fact that younger people are raised in a racist environment, where hating is encouraged. The pics posted in this thread are terrible.
BlazingDarkness
Member
lolrussia
I read about that bill few days ago. It's a horrible news. :/ I feel really sorry for gay people living in Russia.
It's far from being as bad as in Russia, but it's also not so great. The community is pretty divided on the matter of LGBT tolerance. On one hand we have central and left-wing parties that support gay communities (currently we even have a gay and a transgender member of parliament) and the Government Plenipotentiary for Equal Treatment even decided to undertake a honor patronage of Pride Parade this year. On the other hand, right-wing parties openly call homosexuals "deviants", "fags", that we are sick and should be treated, say that gay sex is immoral and devoted of love and even equate it to bestiality or pedophilia. And of course there are these guys:
As Magni said, homosexuality was never criminalized here and Poland was one of the first countries in Europe to legalize it. However, we still don't even have civil union here. There was a discussion about this issue in the Parliament few months ago (there was a reading of three different drafts for the bill), but the discussion itself was disheartening (to say the least) and eventually no draft was accepted for further readings.
It's far from being as bad as in Russia, but it's also not so great. The community is pretty divided on the matter of LGBT tolerance. On one hand we have central and left-wing parties that support gay communities (currently we even have a gay and a transgender member of parliament) and the Government Plenipotentiary for Equal Treatment even decided to undertake a honor patronage of Pride Parade this year. On the other hand, right-wing parties openly call homosexuals "deviants", "fags", that we are sick and should be treated, say that gay sex is immoral and devoted of love and even equate it to bestiality or pedophilia. And of course there are these guys:
As Magni said, homosexuality was never criminalized here and Poland was one of the first countries in Europe to legalize it. However, we still don't even have civil union here. There was a discussion about this issue in the Parliament few months ago (there was a reading of three different drafts for the bill), but the discussion itself was disheartening (to say the least) and eventually no draft was accepted for further readings.
they win
Wow I swear I've seen these guys as the villains in some anime.
Gatekeeper
Member
Now this is a valid reason to boycott an Olympics.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/urge-united-states-olympic-committee-and-committees-other-nations-boycott-2014-winter-olympics-sochi/Jv81cG3H
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/urge-united-states-olympic-committee-and-committees-other-nations-boycott-2014-winter-olympics-sochi/Jv81cG3H
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Not a surprise after what has happened lately. Like I said in the first post, promoting any rights to sexual minorities are seen as an attack towards old gender roles that society is based upon so one can not expect to see any progression in the foreseeable future.
ps. I visited St.Petersburg again and you can just see the traditional family values everywhere. Women look very feminine and beautiful - you rarely see Russian girls who do not dress up when they walk in public. If you gaffers want to watch gorgeous females just book a hotel and spend one day sipping drinks in Nevsky Prospekt. I've been in many countries but damn...nothing comes close lol.
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