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[The Albatross]

If there's one bright spot in any of this its that it should hopefully help settle the stupid comments you get around every election that the US should have an online voting system or you could be able to vote on your phone, or facebook, iMessage, or some other method.

Voting machines should always be disconnected, manually run, and should have a printed paper trail that's verifiable, with double receipts. One anonymous receipt for the voter, one anonymous receipt for the precinct.

What would have happened had Hillary not conceded due to this very thing?

It wouldn't have gone over well for Hillary and likely would have been settled by the Supreme Court in favor of Trump given that he won the electoral college, and probably would have pushed back any of the Russia/Trump investigation given that the focus would have been on election interference, not campaign and administration connections.

There's also no evidence that the election results were affected by cyber attacks on the election infrastructure. Voting machines are not connected to the internet. There is evidence that Russia influenced the election with things like promoting/creating fake news, financing disinformation campaigns, and more, but not that results were altered. Those on the Right often portray polling as hilariously wrong, but, in truth, the polls were mostly right. Nationally, Clinton won by about the margin of error of the polls, around 2%. Regionally, Trump's late surge carried him in states that made sense for him to carry, and polls in those states taken close to election day reflected that.

I think that this is part of a longer game by Russia than influencing the 2016 results. I think they're gathering data for how to influence future elections with targeted disinformation campaigns.

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

I dunno, this all seems like a lot of hot air. If huge numbers of people were prevented from voting at the last minute we'd have heard at least a rumble or something about it from the 10's to 100's of thousands of people affected. Especially by now.

I guess you missed the part where it said they tried to delete and/or alter voter data.

 

[DeviantBoi]

Hacking the databases and changing information would be stupid. That leaves a trail and might have put into question the election results.

All they need are the names, emails, and addresses of the voters and they can weaponize that information to target them with fake news.

 

[TheCochese]

Hacking the databases and changing information would be stupid. That leaves a trail and might have put into question the election results.

All they need are the names, emails, and addresses of the voters and they can weaponize that information to target them with fake news.

That might be their secondary goal.

 

[The Albatross]

I guess you missed the part where it said they tried to delete and/or alter voter data.

I don't think anybody missed it. I think you're missing that poster's point (and my point from page 1). If voter rolls were altered prior to the election, preventing people from voting, then it would have been widely reported by voter watchdog groups, which by and large, reported a "more normal" election than in both 2008 and 2012 where reports of voting irregularities were higher than 2016 (and with good reason -- turnout was lower in 2016 and there were fewer "non-regular" voters [e.g., Obama was much more inspiring to people who don't normally vote than Clinton or Trump]).

It's definitely an issue and should push election officials to increases security and double-down on "dumb" voting machines, something that neither Republicans nor Democrats have strongly pushed for especially since the 2000 election.

Paper + marker + manual submission + double paper receipts.

I think hacking into election voter roles isn't to alter the results of an election, it's multi-fold, but primarily:

• Get voter data for 2018 and 2020 to spread misinformation based on direct voter data
• A propaganda campaign in Russia (We're so powerful the Americans think we hacked their voting system! -- this has actually widely gone on from Russian state media already; a lot of people in the West think too narrowly and don't consider that the primary objective of Russian interference in foreign elections is a domestic strategy within Russia)
• Unsettle the US and lead to more distrust in the Democratic process

 

[theWB27]

I dunno, this all seems like a lot of hot air. If huge numbers of people were prevented from voting at the last minute we'd have heard at least a rumble or something about it from the 10's to 100's of thousands of people affected. Especially by now.

Regardless if anybody can determine what the outcome was...all of this isn't close to being hot air. It's strange to see this brushed off.

 

[kirblar]

That might be their secondary goal.

Yup, one of their goals all along was to put distrust in the system. Its why they attack on both the far left and right.

 

[Theonik]

Voting machines should always be disconnected, manually run, and should have a printed paper trail that's verifiable, with double receipts. One anonymous receipt for the voter, one anonymous receipt for the precinct.



It wouldn't have gone over well for Hillary and likely would have been settled by the Supreme Court in favor of Trump given that he won the electoral college, and probably would have pushed back any of the Russia/Trump investigation given that the focus would have been on election interference, not campaign and administration connections.

The problem is that the software that is loaded on those machines is extremely difficult to verify, an attack on the software vendors as is increasingly appearing to be the case here can have profound influence on the result and could largely go undetected. The possibilities for abuse are limitless. And even a paper trail (that if you wanted to have any hope of verifying you'd' have to have the voter deposit on their own) would have to be counted by hand to ensure the integrity of the results or there is little benefit of having it. Electronic voting also has very little benefit, it makes elections cheaper potentially, though in practice it hasn't due to the cost of the infrastructure, at the cost of integrity.

 

[GameAddict411]

The only way to punish Russia is by increasing sanctions even more, but I wonder how much they interfered with Euopean elections? I doubt it's just the US. Either way, this is huge. I hope they get to the bottom of it.

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

I don't think anybody missed it. I think you're missing that poster's point (and my point from page 1). If voter rolls were altered prior to the election, preventing people from voting, then it would have been widely reported by voter watchdog groups, which by and large, reported a "more normal" election than in both 2008 and 2012 where reports of voting irregularities were higher than 2016 (and with good reason -- turnout was lower in 2016).

It's definitely an issue and should push election officials to increases security and double-down on "dumb" voting machines, something that neither Republicans nor Democrats have strongly pushed for especially since the 2000 election.

Paper + marker + manual submission + double paper receipts.

Didn't Trump announce that he was scaling back funding for the group that oversees these voting machines/process like a week after he was elected? I see things being much worse and him possibly getting re-elected again because of these kind of steps he's been putting in place.

 

[Sulik2]

When all the dust clears on this election it sure seems like Russia had far, far more effect on this election directly than anyone realized. Maybe the democrats don't need to quite view themselves as losing touch with the American public if Russia directly changed or affect voting machines.

So the best case scenario is now Trump, his cabinet, campaign and Paul Ryan executed for treason and direct voter machine tampering found requiring a complete do over of the 2016 election. Now I know what to dream about.

 

[gutterboy44]

There were massive voter disenfranchisement issues during this election. Did we really go through every one and make sure they were just good ol' GOP fuckery and not something more malicious? That seems impossible to guarantee. I don't think Russian hacked an election win, but all of this including the DNC hacks and fake news propaganda efforts all play their part in undermining our democracy, pulling the strings, and causing public distrust in US governance. All of these are a win for Russia.

What happens in 2018 if there is a massive swing left? My guess is magically all the right start crying bloody murder about hacked voting machines and we are really in for a shit show.

 

[The Albatross]

Didn't Trump announce that he was scaling back funding for the group that oversees these voting machines/process like a week after he was elected? I see things being much worse and him possibly getting re-elected again because of these kind of steps he's been putting in place.

Trump may very well have said that, but he was probably talking about how the FEC, Federal Election Commission, oversees campaign finance -- which has been a campaign talking point of his. As dumb as Trump is, as dumb as most of his supporters are, making a speech about undermining voter machine integrity is not one that would even play well with his base. In either event, though, the president doesn't control the purse strings, congress does, so the president can't cut funding to the FEC.

The more likely thing Trump will do is not appoint any new commissioners to the FEC. Only one commissioner has been appointed to the FEC since 2008, and all of their terms have expired and they're serving without renewed terms. As Trump has done with other Administration appointments, he seems committed to not appointing new commissioners which serves to undermine their effectiveness.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

The person who knows the most about the cyber just moved into the White House. We'll finally get to the bottom of this.

What if trump just gives so little shits about anything that he's just letting barron run everything via surrogacy?

 

[deadlast]

The person who knows the most about the cyber just moved into the White House. We'll finally get to the bottom of this.

How come his hands are bigger than Donald's?

 

[The Albatross]

How come his hands are bigger than Donald's?

Because his real dad probably has pretty big hands.

 

[TheCochese]

Because his real dad probably has pretty big hands.

I said goddamn

 

[4Tran]

The problem with trying to pin the blame on Russia is that they're just doing what the GOP has been doing, and at a smaller scale to boot. So as long as they're doing what half of the American political system is happy with, I doubt there's going to be any consequences. The US is going to have to clean up their own broken house first.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

So few people vote. If they were smart, they would try to figure out who were least likely to vote and go from there.

I don't get it. The way I understand it, the Russians could have manipulated registration data to prevent people from voting. These people wouldn't have found out until they showed up at the polls. Targeting people who wouldn't have showed up doesn't make sense. I would be pissed if I had prior confirmation that I was registered, then show up to the polls and I can't vote because there's something wrong with my registration. I would think it would be pretty easy to prove that someone has tampered with that data.

 

[ErasureAcer]

This shit was obvious from Arizona in the primary. People registered to a party and then having their affiliation switched or purged from the rolls altogether, even as active voters in recent elections. Someone was messing with rolls. It's been there clear as day. Finally glad this is getting the attention it deserves.

 

[KernelPanic]

Should switch to only paper ballots. I think some country in Europe did this out of fear of Russian hackers.

Lol @ not making voting critical infrastructure.

 

[thelatestmodel]

Should switch to only paper ballots. I think some country in Europe did this out of fear of Russian hackers.

Lol @ not making voting critical infrastructure.

Coming from the UK I was always surprised and alarmed that the US doesn't use paper ballots.

All it does is open up an attack vector. Paper ballots are much safer.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I guess you missed the part where it said they tried to delete and/or alter voter data.

"Tried" doesn't mean they succeeded

Regardless if anybody can determine what the outcome was...all of this isn't close to being hot air. It's strange to see this brushed off.

You are taking my post out of the context of the original response. That comment is a reference to the number of actual votes being affected significantly. Obviously this is a serious offense by the Russians regardless of whether they accomplished anything or not.

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

"Tried" doesn't mean they succeeded

True indeed.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Could they have hacked the Dem primaries? My info was wrong and I was changed to unregistered when I tried to vote.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Could they have hacked the Dem primaries? My info was wrong and I was changed to unregistered when I tried to vote.

Considering they easily hacked the DNC, I don't see why not.

 

[StarCreator]

Coming from the UK I was always surprised and alarmed that the US doesn't use paper ballots.

All it does is open up an attack vector. Paper ballots are much safer.

While I recall electronic voting machines being used in my district from 2000 through 2012, there actually was a switch to paper in 2016. The counting is still done by machine (the paper is scanned in), but the paper is retained so it could be manually counted if needed.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Is it still a cold war when US government owned systems are being attacked.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

Could they have hacked the Dem primaries? My info was wrong and I was changed to unregistered when I tried to vote.

I think they basically looked at how non-standardized the voting across the country is and were like fuck this shit.

One of the mysteries about the 2016 presidential election is why Russian intelligence, after gaining access to state and local systems, didn't try to disrupt the vote. One possibility is that the American warning was effective. Another former senior U.S. official, who asked for anonymity to discuss the classified U.S. probe into pre-election hacking, said a more likely explanation is that several months of hacking failed to give the attackers the access they needed to master America's disparate voting systems spread across more than 7,000 local jurisdictions.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Could they have hacked the Dem primaries? My info was wrong and I was changed to unregistered when I tried to vote.

Yup.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

"Tried" doesn't mean they succeeded
.

This article is a bit misleading because the term 'incursion' suggests the hackers were successful in bypassing security.

 

[Theonik]

While I recall electronic voting machines being used in my district from 2000 through 2012, there actually was a switch to paper in 2016. The counting is still done by machine (the paper is scanned in), but the paper is retained so it could be manually counted if needed.

That's not as re-assuring as you think as the only way you can find out is after the fact and only if a manual recount is done and it is very rare that this is done.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Edit:
Notice the smirk.

First thing I noticed when watching that clip.

 

[AlphaDump]

I dunno, this all seems like a lot of hot air. If huge numbers of people were prevented from voting at the last minute we'd have heard at least a rumble or something about it from the 10's to 100's of thousands of people affected. Especially by now.

We have to be careful about this kind of stuff because we are spying too. Is it this bad? Probably not, but that's impossible to know for sure.

Well this is an interesting defense...

We dont even know what the attacks were. A deleted database would be pretty straight forward and much easier to identify. If registration could be revoked/granted, and i could mail in a ballot, that would be much harder to trace.

Either way the borderline whataboutism in your second response is glaring as fuck.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Well this is an interesting defense...

We dont even know what the attacks were. A deleted database would be pretty straight forward and much easier to identify. If registration could be revoked/granted, and i could mail in a ballot, that would be much harder to trace.

Either way the borderline whataboutism in your second response is glaring as fuck.

I don't think so. I remember some high profile NSA spying on Germany a couple years back.

 

[Bleepey]

The novelist inside of me is thinking....

What if Russian hacks reveal they made Hillary win the popular vote? What if they were trying to be the good guys but failed miserably!

That would be

 

[AndyD]

I do wonder what it will take to put in bipartisan federal legislation to strengthen the voting system on a national basis. Clearly the constituion does not contemplate modern times and technologies in this area.

 

[AlphaDump]

I don't think so. I remember some high profile NSA spying on Germany a couple years back.

That doesnt invalidate your whataboutism. Sorry.

Every US citizen should be concerned, especially when the winners are being investigated for collusion on a massive scale.

You seem to want to say it isnt a big deal and brush it aside. That is some glaring shit dude.

 

[Skellig Gra]

That doesnt invalidate your whataboutism. Sorry.

Every US citizen should be concerned, especially when the winners are being investigated for collusion on a massive scale.

You seem to want to say it isnt a big deal and brush it aside. That is some glaring shit dude.

I said the exact opposite actually

...Obviously this is a serious offense by the Russians regardless of whether they accomplished anything or not.

 

[AlphaDump]

I said the exact opposite actually

Only after being called out by other posters.


And I am responding to your first page comments

I dunno, this all seems like a lot of hot air. If huge numbers of people were prevented from voting at the last minute we'd have heard at least a rumble or something about it from the 10's to 100's of thousands of people affected. Especially by now.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Only after being called out by other posters.


And I am responding to your first page comments

As I said before that is a direct response to someone talking about actual voting tallies being materially affected. Not the Russian spying overall.

 

[AlphaDump]

As I said before that is a direct response to someone talking about actual voting tallies being materially affected. Not the Russian spying overall.

You came into this thread handwaving it as if they just hit delete a bunch of times.


And that still doesnt justify your whataboutism. Which is still glaring as fuck.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

So is it possible they fucked with the voting data of anyone likely to vote against Trump? How is the election not compromised at this point? The states he won were from such narrow margins that it's impossible to believe some of this didn't have an effect.

Not likely, that would be an act of war. Remember Russia did not think trump would win, they just wanted to sow doubt about Hillarys win.

 

[The Albatross]

Coming from the UK I was always surprised and alarmed that the US doesn't use paper ballots.

All it does is open up an attack vector. Paper ballots are much safer.

Many states use paper. Mine does. Like almost everything in the US, it is up for states to implement it how they want to do it.

 

[Condom]

Is it still a cold war when US government owned systems are being attacked.

Is the US in war with Iran, China, North-Korea, France, Germany and pretty much the whole of South America?

Calm down with the war talk Americans.

 

[theWB27]

"Tried" doesn't mean they succeeded



You are taking my post out of the context of the original response. That comment is a reference to the number of actual votes being affected significantly. Obviously this is a serious offense by the Russians regardless of whether they accomplished anything or not.

Ah my bad then

 

[Extra Sauce]

Is the US in war with Iran, China, North-Korea, France, Germany and pretty much the whole of South America?

Calm down with the war talk Americans.

Joke's on you, I'm not American!

 

[captive]

its crazy how this isnt getting any traction. Initial report said 8 states, now its 39. Thats insane.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Hillary: "Our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years, but all the time. So let's do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear.

so long as those values are droning people, warrantless interrogation, endless war, corporate welfare, etc.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Holy shit