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Saints Row demo out on Xbox Live Marketplace
- Thread starter Scotch
- Start date
Campster said:
Excuse my ignorance. I'm talking about the system Lucasarts is using with Indy, and Ubi is using with Assasins. What is the technical term?
Is it a blend of ragdoll and canned animations? What do I call it to avoid the correction of individuals like yourself? Please teach me.
I'm kind of "meh" on it. It imitates GTA right down to the glitches and technical sloppiness. Framerate goes to hell when driving in a semi-populated area, screen tears all over the place. I wasn't expecting a next-gen GTA to look like Crysis, but it'd be nice if they could have at least paid attention to factors like that have a more noted effect on the gameplay, like framerate and pop-up
The city is all a dank muddy-brown blur without any notable landmarks or distinctive areas. It's fun to screw around for a bit, but actually pretty difficult to get exciting car chases started. Streets only seem slightly more populated than any other game of this type. The map is a slight improvement but getting around still feels a bit like Pacman.
Driving around feels a bit like GTA on easy mode -- cars rarely flip, and can take a lot more damage. Seems harder to shake the cops, but the cops themselves are a lot less aggressive.
On the plus side, shootouts are top notch. The shotgun is especially satisfying, especially at close range where guys go flying
GTA3 is probably the best of its kind. Map design is pretty crucial, and so far I think it's had the coolest map.....since then everything's felt really flat and nondescript.
The city is all a dank muddy-brown blur without any notable landmarks or distinctive areas. It's fun to screw around for a bit, but actually pretty difficult to get exciting car chases started. Streets only seem slightly more populated than any other game of this type. The map is a slight improvement but getting around still feels a bit like Pacman.
Driving around feels a bit like GTA on easy mode -- cars rarely flip, and can take a lot more damage. Seems harder to shake the cops, but the cops themselves are a lot less aggressive.
On the plus side, shootouts are top notch. The shotgun is especially satisfying, especially at close range where guys go flying
GTA3 is probably the best of its kind. Map design is pretty crucial, and so far I think it's had the coolest map.....since then everything's felt really flat and nondescript.
I also played a bit more, and it really isn't as bad as I first thought. The mechanics seem fairly decent for this type of game and the world seems like it could be quite entertaining.
Visually, it's a bit better than I first thought as well. The level of detail is pretty impressive at times, though I still feel that 2002's Wreckless DOES look more impressive (they both have full shadows, large cities, accurate reflections, and complex geometry - SR offers better texture detail while Wreckless CRUSHES it in terms of effects, lighting, and framerate). That really remains the one serious issue for me. I tried to ignore it, and at times, it doesn't really get in the way, but the framerate *IS* low. When the action heats up, you enter a building, or anything interesting shows up on screen...the framerate slows to a crawl. It was so low at points that I would have been reaching for the options menu and cranking things WAY down if it were a PC game. I'm hoping that the final does run better, as the current performance is just too low.
I like some of the little details, though. In particular, I noticed that they keep the music thumping when you jump from a vehicle. With 5.1, this is actually quite a nice effect (it even emulates distance well).
Visually, it's a bit better than I first thought as well. The level of detail is pretty impressive at times, though I still feel that 2002's Wreckless DOES look more impressive (they both have full shadows, large cities, accurate reflections, and complex geometry - SR offers better texture detail while Wreckless CRUSHES it in terms of effects, lighting, and framerate). That really remains the one serious issue for me. I tried to ignore it, and at times, it doesn't really get in the way, but the framerate *IS* low. When the action heats up, you enter a building, or anything interesting shows up on screen...the framerate slows to a crawl. It was so low at points that I would have been reaching for the options menu and cranking things WAY down if it were a PC game. I'm hoping that the final does run better, as the current performance is just too low.
I like some of the little details, though. In particular, I noticed that they keep the music thumping when you jump from a vehicle. With 5.1, this is actually quite a nice effect (it even emulates distance well).
I've been playing the demo quite a bit and it's exactly what I expected... which means its mediocre at best. I'm all for copying game designs that work, but there are already 4 current-gen GTA games and Saints Rows is just a clone to add on to the pile. The demo is alright (6.5 out of 10), but this formula alone just doesn't cut it for what I expect with next-gen.
marvelharvey
Member
I'm starting to think that Marketplace demos aren't good for publishers. There have been 3 recent games that were on my 'might buy' list, that have then been transfered onto my 'no buy' list within a few minutes of playing the game... including this one. To be fair, I'm not a free-roaming game/GTA fan and I was hoping for this to the game that might draw me into the genre. BUT NO, it's a carbon copy like many people have pointed out already, it's almost on the verge of copyright infringement.
marvelharvey
Member
Oh indeed... great for us-Rogue5- said:
Incorrect. There IS self-shadowing in Wreckless. All buildings cast full shadows on all vehicles and vehicles themselves cast shadows UPON themselves (at least the player car). The shadows are lower resolution, but they are indeed present.Helznicht said:
Unlike SR, I believe that Wreckless truly excels in motion, but you can see it here. I can't find any shots demonstrating environmental shadow, but I assure you, they are there and you will see them if you play it.
Also take a look at these shots from the second game (which supported 720p)...
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0502/game050209d.shtml
I agree that it goes WAY over the top with lighting, but it looks really neat and there isn't much else like it (visually). For an early 2002 game, it's pretty mindblowing...
Ragdoll is procedural in that the physics of the person are calculated in realtime but the physics are insanely skewed (joints bend at impossible angles, torso and limbs have no weight and flop around wildly). Ragdoll is so unrealistic and so uniformly deployed that it does seem "canned" at this point. It's been around for so many years I tend to wonder why we haven't evolved....wouldn't it just be a matter of adding in different weight values for the body and limbs, and more strictly limiting the body's flexibility?Goreomedy said:
Canned animations are always obviously canned, but tend to be way more convincing.
Demos tend to attract a lot of people that aren't interested in the particular genre of the game. Most people download the demo just because it's something new, and disregard whether or not it will appeal to them. I expect that until the game/demo scene gets so busy that people don't have time to check out demos of stuff they wouldn't otherwise care about, the "demo reactions" threads will be mostly negative.
Not that that should absolve totally crappy demos (99 Nights) or anything...
Not that that should absolve totally crappy demos (99 Nights) or anything...
Just played the demo. One of the better GTA clones I must say.
I think the actual shooting is better and more satisying(bad day to be a ingame civilian) than in GTA. I like that you can build your character but it robs the story of some personality which I don't like in this case(the ones in Vice City & San Andreas brought alot to the experience). But then again, I liked seeing 'myself' on screen. Im kinda split.
The driving isn't good though. While it's certanly functionial and easy to control(unlike the Getaway) it's not as fun as the one in GTA by a longshot.
The ai in the game is very twitchy. It has improvements and more variation than GTA but they also end up doing more stupid things due to it. Like one guy jumping over a fence, running 5meters and then jumping back over again to my side(click *boom*).
The voice-acting while good is not on a GTA level. The GTA characters have way more 'passion' in their delivery and are actually really interesting to listen to.
Saints Rows is definetly violent. Wide eyes open during the intro, surprised me I must say.
The enviroments while well done aren't as interesting as those seen in the genre leader(one funny thing, I crashed into the demo wall on the bridge and it sent me flying to the other side of the city hitting into another demo wall haha).
While you can definetly do alot of crazy stuff, the tone seems more down to earth which was nice. I give the game/demo a thumbs up.
I think the actual shooting is better and more satisying(bad day to be a ingame civilian) than in GTA. I like that you can build your character but it robs the story of some personality which I don't like in this case(the ones in Vice City & San Andreas brought alot to the experience). But then again, I liked seeing 'myself' on screen. Im kinda split.
The driving isn't good though. While it's certanly functionial and easy to control(unlike the Getaway) it's not as fun as the one in GTA by a longshot.
The ai in the game is very twitchy. It has improvements and more variation than GTA but they also end up doing more stupid things due to it. Like one guy jumping over a fence, running 5meters and then jumping back over again to my side(click *boom*).
The voice-acting while good is not on a GTA level. The GTA characters have way more 'passion' in their delivery and are actually really interesting to listen to.
Saints Rows is definetly violent. Wide eyes open during the intro, surprised me I must say.
The enviroments while well done aren't as interesting as those seen in the genre leader(one funny thing, I crashed into the demo wall on the bridge and it sent me flying to the other side of the city hitting into another demo wall haha).
While you can definetly do alot of crazy stuff, the tone seems more down to earth which was nice. I give the game/demo a thumbs up.
marvelharvey said:
How's that fair? You admit you don't like this style of game, go in knowing full well what style of game it is and say it's now a bad tool for publishers?
border said:
Yep, see above. Plus there's a known segment of GTA haters here.
As stated before the Tomb Raider sold me on the game, and I was much more forgiving of Chrome Hounds because I knew it wasn't representative of the final game (being more online focused).
I liked the whole gang warfare aspect. I started some shit with some blue wearing bangers, and they brought out their sleek cars, so I stole one, and later on saw the same low-nose car coming my way, so I thought I'd do a head on collision, only I used the car as a ramp instead and went flying. Then I blew it up with a pipe bomb.
It's a fun game, but Dead Rising is what's getting my money this month.
It's a fun game, but Dead Rising is what's getting my money this month.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
ATTENTION NON-THIRTEENTHERS:
I'd recommend practicing in the demo as much as possible.
The demo was pretty fun. There were a lot of glitches. The frame rate needs work. The physics were pretty good and the AI did some cool things from time to time. One funny moment I drove over something that exploded and my car caught fire. I bailed and my hommie got out kind of late and caught fire. He started running and screaming and then the car blew up throwing him and killing him. Pretty funny.
Father_Mike
Member
Grrrr I have been downloading for over 10 hours now!!!
border said:
v.bad voice acting, relatively shallow and dull demo. But singularly the most 'next gen' thing I've played on the 360.
Gorgeous realtime cutscenes, modelling and loads of characters on screen at the same time. Makes that bit in Kameo look like a bad joke.
So it seems the little white box is capable of nice things. Shame not many people are really tapping it.
Neat! It's GTA with an engine that isn't ass ugly and gunplay that actually feels intuitive.
It doesn't reach the production quality of a Rockstar game(particularly narrative), but this seems like a nice holdover until GTA4.
Shame I can care less though.
It doesn't reach the production quality of a Rockstar game(particularly narrative), but this seems like a nice holdover until GTA4.
Shame I can care less though.
Best GTA clone I've played so far. Same as everyone else it seems that the shooting aspect feels a lot better in Saints. And I found myself giggling like a school girl as I plowed into several elderly people walking down the street. Wife yelled at me for running over grandpa and then back up and peeling out over his corpse. Nice sized demo that I'll get my fun out of.
Interested to see more of the online part of this before I'd buy. Is it just co-op missions or what?
Interested to see more of the online part of this before I'd buy. Is it just co-op missions or what?
border said:
It sounds like you're describing only the worst of the ragdoll out there. Max Payne 2, Half-Life 2, and even a low-level release like Urban Chaos: Riot Response have great ragdoll effects, IMO. They're still some exaggeration, and there are still problems with limbs clipping through each other, but the joints do have reasonable limitations and the bodies have a believable amount of mass and weight.
Like many things, I think that the effectiveness of ragdoll depends on the implementation and execution by the developer more than the technology itself being flawed.
AtomicShroom
Member
Here's my impressions, not that anyone cares:
- Poor car physics/handling/feel. It feels like the cars are glued to the ground. Sometimes I bumped into something, only to be magically pushed back by some invisible force. Cars get stuck in objects/terrain too easily. This is currently my biggest complaint about the game. I hope they can tweak it before the release.
- Poor sound balance. Some sounds/voices are too loud, while others are too quiet.
- Not enough blood!! Why aren't there blood splatters/traces when I run over people? wtf? This is a M-Rated game. I want buckets of blood!
- Police not aggressive enough.
- Objects/cars dissappear too fast, sometimes before your very eyes.
- City layout could be better. I often found myself in frustrating dead-ends.
- Tearing and choppy framerate at times. However it's not such a big deal.
+ Best attempt at a GTA clone yet.
+ Very nice graphics for the genre.
+ Physics on objects and pedestrian owns me.
+ Awesome gunplay. I really like the feel of the shotgun.
+ Cutscenes and presentation are very nice.
+ Awesome character customization. GTA needs this, and more.
+ Nice little additions, like warp to shore, stamina bar, GPS, etc...
+ Nice AI so far. Cops taking cover behind their opened car doors, etc.
- Poor car physics/handling/feel. It feels like the cars are glued to the ground. Sometimes I bumped into something, only to be magically pushed back by some invisible force. Cars get stuck in objects/terrain too easily. This is currently my biggest complaint about the game. I hope they can tweak it before the release.
- Poor sound balance. Some sounds/voices are too loud, while others are too quiet.
- Not enough blood!! Why aren't there blood splatters/traces when I run over people? wtf? This is a M-Rated game. I want buckets of blood!
- Police not aggressive enough.
- Objects/cars dissappear too fast, sometimes before your very eyes.
- City layout could be better. I often found myself in frustrating dead-ends.
- Tearing and choppy framerate at times. However it's not such a big deal.
+ Best attempt at a GTA clone yet.
+ Very nice graphics for the genre.
+ Physics on objects and pedestrian owns me.
+ Awesome gunplay. I really like the feel of the shotgun.
+ Cutscenes and presentation are very nice.
+ Awesome character customization. GTA needs this, and more.
+ Nice little additions, like warp to shore, stamina bar, GPS, etc...
+ Nice AI so far. Cops taking cover behind their opened car doors, etc.
bengraven
Member
AtomicShroom said:
You got it there pretty much. Although I disagree with two things: I thought the city layout was fairly good and the physics on peds was actually pretty bad.
I have complaints about this game, but I can't help feeling I like it a lot, despite them all. My only really bad complaint (other than cop cars disappearing when I jump on them) would have to be really ****ing bad voice acting with some NPCs. That opening cinema and first mission cinema had some really ****ing cheesy lines AND bad pacing BETWEEN lines.
Still. Day One game for me.
scooby_dooby
Banned
dark10x said:
The framerate never "slows to a crawl" you wanna see that, go play BFME sometime.
As for looking better then wreckless...:lol
Oh ya....that looks fantastic
It doesn't look great in that shot, but it looks amazing in person still today. You couldn't possibly trying to downplay what the game did back then and how good it still looks today (considering). The lighting and effects are more impressive looking that SR, I believe.
Take a look at the sequel (720p even)...
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0502/game050209d.shtml
As far as framerate, I disagree, SR slows to a crawl at times. It seems decent (though full of tearing) while simply driving around, but as soon as the action heats up or you enter a building, it becomes incredibly choppy. The church was especially bad (remindd me of playing Quake on a 486).
pr0cs
Member
I only played this for a bit this morning before I headed off to work this morning. The demo took 6+ hours last night to download so obviously it's popular.
The character customization is really great, I thought Oblivion was good but this game is even better. The voice acting is top notch, the story is perhaps cliche but good enough, rescued by the voice acting no doubt.
I don't understand how people can even say this game looks anythign like GTA:SA or :VC. The game world is a LOT nicer in SR, the dynamic shadows, the lighting changes as it switches from light to dark, all make the world seem a LOT more real. GTA:VC felt like a sandbox, very sterile, SR feels a lot more like a living city.
I don't like the controls (at least for driving) but I realize that it's a demo and it's been proven that the final version you're able to remap the trigger buttons for gas/break or any combination.
Considering how old the demo is (E3) it plays really well, there are slowdowns and some tearing but the game is still quite playable and I'm confident that the final game will be a lot smoother.
Don't play this game when you have kids around, obviously the content and language aren't something you want to subject them to but as far as fun goes this and Dead Rising are confirmed to be my next 2 retail games.
The character customization is really great, I thought Oblivion was good but this game is even better. The voice acting is top notch, the story is perhaps cliche but good enough, rescued by the voice acting no doubt.
I don't understand how people can even say this game looks anythign like GTA:SA or :VC. The game world is a LOT nicer in SR, the dynamic shadows, the lighting changes as it switches from light to dark, all make the world seem a LOT more real. GTA:VC felt like a sandbox, very sterile, SR feels a lot more like a living city.
I don't like the controls (at least for driving) but I realize that it's a demo and it's been proven that the final version you're able to remap the trigger buttons for gas/break or any combination.
Considering how old the demo is (E3) it plays really well, there are slowdowns and some tearing but the game is still quite playable and I'm confident that the final game will be a lot smoother.
Don't play this game when you have kids around, obviously the content and language aren't something you want to subject them to but as far as fun goes this and Dead Rising are confirmed to be my next 2 retail games.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Played a good protion of the demo last night, and thought that it was fun. I liked the graphics and setting, but I just kept thinking that it was just another copy of GTA. Not in a bad way, mind you, just that it seemed to have copied the format very well.
I'm not completely sold on it, but it looks like it will be fun down the line when I'm looking for something new to play and there is a lull in releases. I'll be interested in seeing the reviews and GAF opinions on the final release.
I'm not completely sold on it, but it looks like it will be fun down the line when I'm looking for something new to play and there is a lull in releases. I'll be interested in seeing the reviews and GAF opinions on the final release.
I'm betting it'll get knocked a ton for being GTA but not being GTA. Every little thing about this game will be nitpicked to death despite it being good. But since it's not GTA those little things will not be overlooked. Tough treaddin for GTA clones but that's the biz.Kung Fu Jedi said:
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
PhatSaqs said:
Hey, you can swim in the game! That's a huge improvement over GTA!
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
dark10x said:You can swim in GTA-SA and the upcoming Vice City Stories...
I haven't played SA, so go figure. Well, guess that isn't a selling point for Saint's Row then.