Finale Fireworker
Member
Your opinions on Star Wars are going to START Wars.
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Sakurai discusses George Lucas and fan criticism
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
Your opinions on Star Wars are going to START Wars.
Nothing weird about it.
I am simply tired of every thread devolving into this shit. I'm done pretending to be nice and pandering to the fans who steer every Smash thread into this direction. No one gives a fuck but the Melee fans from way back when. This is the truth.
I enjoyed Melee too, but holy hell. When will it end? When? Then we're gonna pretend Smash 4 isn't a great game lol. What a joke some of these people are. It's gone from discussions that had merit to full blown bitching.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I imagine all devs will feel this way at some point. Criticism is how we get better games and movies though.
As for the "You can't experiment" thing, I disagree. I don't see many Star Wars fans giving George Lucas flak for Strange Magic, and I've seen Sakurai get nothing but praise for Kid Icarus: Uprising.
I think there is a legitimate gripe to be had if fans think a creator is trying to experiment on something they love, and something that has an established franchise DNA. If you want to experiment do something new.
I think there is a legitimate gripe to be had if fans think a creator is trying to experiment on something they love, and something that has an established franchise DNA. If you want to experiment do something new.
Starsailor
Banned
well he was wrong.
SW7 is at same bar than SW4 and just under SW5.
5 > 4 > 7 > 6 > 3 > 1 > 2
SW7 is at same bar than SW4 and just under SW5.
5 > 4 > 7 > 6 > 3 > 1 > 2
Starsailor
Banned
I read the piece. Guess he's not a fan of criticism of some of his choices.
I love Smash 4, I'm surprised that I do considering how much I disliked Brawl. Melee is by far the best one in every way and smash 4 was the right step in bringing that back.
I wish he'd get over some damn hang ups, though. Like why is there more FE characters? If it was just Ike, Marth and Lucina it wouldn't such an issue. Dark Pit? Why? Don't care if he worked on the previous game there's no reason for his inclusion. Ridley would be a great choice but he doesn't include him for idiotic reasons.
I kinda wish that he wouldn't be involved with Smash 5 just so we finally get the characters we want(Bayonetta being in is fantastic though). The gameplay is there, now's the time to bring in some more of the heavily requested characters.
I love Smash 4, I'm surprised that I do considering how much I disliked Brawl. Melee is by far the best one in every way and smash 4 was the right step in bringing that back.
I wish he'd get over some damn hang ups, though. Like why is there more FE characters? If it was just Ike, Marth and Lucina it wouldn't such an issue. Dark Pit? Why? Don't care if he worked on the previous game there's no reason for his inclusion. Ridley would be a great choice but he doesn't include him for idiotic reasons.
I kinda wish that he wouldn't be involved with Smash 5 just so we finally get the characters we want(Bayonetta being in is fantastic though). The gameplay is there, now's the time to bring in some more of the heavily requested characters.
In fact, gameplay wise, smash has not been the same without HAL.
Even from a competitive standpoint melee is not attractive. There's only like 3 viable go to fighters for the competitive scene. While the smash 4 has a decent amount for the choosing. I see more diversity in use of characters for smash 4.
Melee having 3 viable characters is bullsh*t.
Anyway, smash 4 having 60 characters doesn't matter if you don't like the game engine, as the game limits what each one of those characters can do.
Dark Pit is the key to all this, because he's a cooler character than we've ever had before.
Sorry but you have no idea what you're saying
Melee has way more than 3 viable characters, granted half the cast is considered not viable but that's the case for most fighting games. Just don't talk about stuff you clearly have no idea about.
SporeCrawler
Member
I dont get the EP3 haters. 1,2 have its problems sure but 3 is one of the best
Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Peach
C. Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ice Climbers
There's a few more I could throw in but they don't strike me as well as these. Of course some of these have a hard time performing well by themselves, but they are all seen often in quality tournament play by a few well-known players.
Oh, because it makes a lot more sense to think that videoganes of the nintendo 64 and gamecube era were made by one person xD
And people don't say that it was all HAL or anything. People simply like to point out that, even though sakurai was the director, he was just one person. The games were developed by HAL (including sakurai), not sakurai alone. Therefore, saying "sakurai made melee" is ridiculous.
Haha I guess I pinched a few nerves with this post. But don't assume I don't know anything because we differ on opinions.
Whenever I watch streams and go to local melee tournaments, it's always the same characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, C. Falcon). Obviously the meta is there for a reason, but its one of my least favorite aspects of melee. It has depth in actual game physics but not in viable characters.
TheDinoman
Member
Well of course he didn't make Melee literally by himself. But that doesn't mean he wasn't the mastermind behind everything. Technically speaking, he didn't make Brawl and Smash 4 by himself either.
Like, look at Metal Gear, and how people say it's the product of Hideo Kojima. Of course other people worked on it, but Kojima was still the one calling all the shots. That's how it's been with Sakurai and Smash.
Interesting and unflattering comparison for him to make. Lucas fucked up as badly as possible with the prequels, and therefore fans wanted him gone. They were perfectly right to. At this stage I'd like Sakurai gone due to his inability to add good single player modes and unwillingness to represent the Nintendo franchises I personally care the most about. But I'd also agree that both men deserve massive credit for their wonderful achievements.
The point wasn't that you hadn't added enough Nintendo characters, the point was that many of us would be happy if it was a Nintendo-only series, and that every non-Nintendo character is a step away from that. Cloud, in particular, is a character not even remotely related to Nintendo. Personally, I love Cloud, and bought him immediately. But I would like to see the next Smash go back to being Nintendo only or close.
As long as the dude gets this, then everything's fine. I just don't like the way he makes artists out to be martyr's because some people online criticise their work.
Anyway, Melee and Kid Icarus are Sakurai's two masterpieces. Kid Icarus tells me he needs to stretch his wings more often and try new things.
The point wasn't that you hadn't added enough Nintendo characters, the point was that many of us would be happy if it was a Nintendo-only series, and that every non-Nintendo character is a step away from that. Cloud, in particular, is a character not even remotely related to Nintendo. Personally, I love Cloud, and bought him immediately. But I would like to see the next Smash go back to being Nintendo only or close.
As long as the dude gets this, then everything's fine. I just don't like the way he makes artists out to be martyr's because some people online criticise their work.
Anyway, Melee and Kid Icarus are Sakurai's two masterpieces. Kid Icarus tells me he needs to stretch his wings more often and try new things.
But we'd lose so many unique movesets. After the loss of Snake, I'm not sure if we can stand to lose the 6 we have now. And I'm sorry, but Dillon is a bit on the obscure side to be a proper replacement for Sonic (not you, but someone else humored the idea a while back).
TheDinoman
Member
You know, as bad as the prequels were, they weren't really George's greatest sin.
His greatest sin was taking the original movies we all loved and locking them away in his closet forever in favor of his special editions. If the OT were rereleased in their pure, unaltered state, I'd drop all charges with George and stop mentioning him altogether.
His greatest sin was taking the original movies we all loved and locking them away in his closet forever in favor of his special editions. If the OT were rereleased in their pure, unaltered state, I'd drop all charges with George and stop mentioning him altogether.
I don't give a single shit about movesets, I really don't. I don't see the issue that way. And I'd like to see a reduction in characters anyway, so a reduction in movesets is what I want. Smash Wii U already has too many characters.
One of the reasons I like MKX's roster so much is they weren't afraid to viciously cut and trim the roster from MK9 to make it small, interesting and relatively balanced.
As long as each character is remotely viable, I don't see the problem. Melee had fewer characters, & half of that roster is shit competitively. Besides, there's not a lot of big Nintendo franchises left besides Splatoon & (to an extent) Rhythm Heaven to pull from without scraping the bottom of the barrel. Besides, it's a fighting games. Unique movesets are a big deal.
TheDinoman
Member
Well, considering this is a fighting game, I think you kind of should.
I don't play the game competitively, so again, that's not a concern of mine. I just want a small, focused roster, where in each game every character is pretty much reinvented. So Mario would play differently each time, and would feel like a different character each time. That's what I'd like.
I know it's not how most fighting games work, but it's what I'd like.
I just play it to have fun, and I play 80% in single player. I'm no fighting game fan.
Again, Smash 4 is just as balanced (or within MKX's ball-park of balanced). Each character, with enough practice, can stand a chance in competitive play. And as much as I love Melee, I can't say the same for that game.
You're a very small demographic and voice with that unfortunately. But even in fighting games returning fighters still have the same movesets intact.
Most fighting game franchises retain the movesets of their returning characters in later installments. They just receive varying degrees of changes depending on how long the character has been away from the franchise. Take Charlie Nash for example, he plays completely different in SFV than he did in the Alpha games since his long absence gave Capcom room to experiment. But for someone like Ryu (who's always around), he's largely unchanged beyond the new V-Mechanics & balancing adjustments to fit the new engine.
And that's why people like to point out that brawl and smash 4 were made by a different developer.
A director having a lot of influence doens't change the importance of the development team.
Sakurai clearly changed the direction were smash was going with brawl, but the transition could have been different. With a different developer like, i don't know
HAL (which had experience making smash games).Now it doesn't matter. Brawl was the base for smash 4, and smash 4 will be the base for the next game.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I love how people point this yet every fucking time we only see Fox, Falco, Marth and Falcon. Maybe Shiek and Jiggs on the blue moon, but Peach and IC aren't as abundant as you may say it.
And even then I remember people going "oh Yoshi is good too because a tourney player uses him so well!" when he's one of the crappier characters in the game.
It's pretty clear that Smash 4 wasn't only a celebration of Nintendo characters, but video games in general. It completely embraced the all-star fighter that it is, and adding non-Nintendo characters doesn't take away from that.
Smash 4 has over 50 characters and is just fine balance wise. It is the most balanced in the series, patches are to thank for that, but your reasoning above doesn't really explain what's so bad about having a large unique roster. Also, MKX doesn't have and 8 player mode and is a completely different game in scale. Terrible comparison. I love the amount of options and varying movesets.
To be fair, a number of their gripes with the recent Smash games are somewhat justified. While Smash 4 is a solid game in its own right, it's not as fun to watch as Melee (at the metagame's current state, anyway). I say this as a competitive player of both. Plus they've kept that game alive for years, that deserves some credit.
Yes, hope the next entry will bring us John Cena, Shrek and Goku.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I say smash 4 has been incredibly fun to watch, especially as of late, the Ike vs sonic match at MVG is still incredible to watch, so much tension and it made people notice how viable Ike really is.
TheDinoman
Member
Sakurai did include characters many people wanted. Little Mac, Mega Man, Bayonetta, Palutena, Shulk, Bowser Jr., etc
Are we still hung up over Ridley and K. Rool or something?
Are we still hung up over Ridley and K. Rool or something?
That plus salt over Corrin & Bayonetta.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I don't know why people would be hung up on ridley, he has his own level in Smash 4 dedicated to him.
Unless he's just too faithful in that level for some, and people would prefer him to be an awkward bowser sized chicken dragon. :^)
Green Mamba
Member
There's nothing faithful about beating up Ridley in order to get him to fight for you.
Coffee Dog
Banned
That's true. He should have been a metal face/yellow devil style boss encounter, not a teamup.
I think Sakurai got the balance just right, because Smash is a love letter to fans so I think he does hear them out on somethings wrong. Some Melee fans just took it personal, hence this good game by accident bullshit.
Lucas however... Taking those original cuts of the OT to the vault is just a dick move.
That's kind of the fun part of Smash 4 for me. Watching the meta develop.
Rekki-Maru
Banned
It's not the same- he wasn't just getting shit from fans. His peers were giving him shit for going digital vs film for ep 1. It was easier/cost less to make the movies he wanted but at the price of lost jobs for people.
Green Mamba
Member
So, "stop disliking what I like?"