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[Redd]

If that is the case why the crying about not enough 3rd party titles, Wii owner can play their Nintendo games on Wii, and other big hit games on PS360 with better graphic.

Well for me I just don't care as much as you about graphics. Sure would I love to play all my games in HD absoulutely. If some (let's be honest many of them won't)developers decide to go with the Wii I won't cry bitter tears..........good enough for you?

 

[fresquito]

Puzzle quest got great review all around, it is not suprising if someone thinks it is better than DMC4, but for Wii sports, I think the review does the game justice, not the sale number. Superman on N64 sold great too.

Wii Sports offers the best tennis controls in a videogame. The best golf controls in a videogame and the best bowling in a videogame. Bat swinging is better than button presses as well. Only Boxing is sucky. So yeah, the game does some things like no other game. If you are implying quality=complexity, you're wrong.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

Because they want developers to explore the fantastic possibilities of the wiimote. Once youve played godfather its really hard to go back to antiquated controlls. Just imagine the possibilites of full motion.

Is Wii remote patented? What are the odds that Sony or MS release something similar?

 

[PantherLotus]

This is the argument that prompted my ban-worthy mental explosion in that thread a couple weeks ago. Basically, you can't in one breath say "they're competing with Nintendo" on the Wii and in the next completely ignore that they're competing with each other on the other consoles.

One could make an argument about audiences, demographics, and whatnot, but using the top 10 on each and who published them is completely irrelevant. It is a tired and continually disproven argument.

Yes ultimately all games are competing. But the top selling games on a console determine the userbase and demographic of that console since they are usually the titles that push system sales. So Nintendo games selling the most on Nintendo consoles means the userbase is more likely to buy those type of games. So when PS leading sellers are in a variety of genres published by 3rd parties that means the userbase is more apt to purchase said games in those genres.


I guess you could say if you were jean manufacturer would you sell your jeans in shop A which sells 99% of "Shop A brand jeans" or shop B which sells a few"shop B brand jeans" but also jeans c, d, e.

edit:/just my opinion.

I think if you refer to my original statement which kswinton replied to, you'll see that's exactly what I already said. But with more style and grace.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

Wii Sports offers the best tennis controls in a videogame. The best golf controls in a videogame and the best bowling in a videogame. Bat swinging is better than button presses as well. Only Boxing is sucky. So yeah, the game does some things like no other game. If you are implying quality=complexity, you're wrong.

I played Wii sports actually, on the tennis game, you can't even control where your character is going, which really annoys me. I don't know, it think it is a game with cheap production value. I like Virtua Tennis way better.

Not sure about the golf tho.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

So how would you do it? Honest question. I ask because I've also resorted to that, and I don't see any objective alternative.

I... don't know... lol

That's a good question. But game critics should always work as reference not like absolute arguments....

 

[Threi]

Did people actually argue that they'd rather not have the game at all in any of those? And are they still around? If so, GAF is even more stupid than I thought.

The severity of their disdain depended on the person. But there where people who would rather the series got killed off then it get put on respective platforms. As well, like you said, there were some people who were merely disappointed. And of course people were in there for the lulz. So much shit happened in that thread that two huge generalizations got formed. You had a point in your previous post though, that what i say doesn't apply to all of GAF. It sure as hell does apply to some of GAF though. I would say your last post is half right though.

Some of GAF is stupider than you thought. Some of GAF is smarter than they are taken account for. Also, some of GAF is stupider than you could ever imagine.

 

[Sadist]

Well there goes the thread...

 

[Dr von plutt]

Is Wii remote patented? What are the odds that Sony or MS release something similar?

Nintendo doesnt have to. Because honestly i dont think ms or sony could even imagine such an innovative and revolutionary controller such as the wiimote.

After playing wii play, godfather and excite truck im done with better graphics.

 

[gtj1092]

Does it really matter what he thinks though? It matters what most consumers think.

I think thats the thing. I don't care about any companies sales or games sales. I guess because I'm a sega fanboy:lol , I'm used to being last . I just want the games I want. Wiisports selling means nothing to me. ps3 tanking in Japan means nothing to me. I only care about me when it comes to gaming.

Sorry but I'm selfish:lol :lol

 

[Sadist]

Nintendo doesnt have to. Because honestly i dont think ms or sony could even imagine such an innovative and revolutionary controller such as the wiimote.

After playing wii play, godfather and excite truck im done with better graphics.

You are so hilarious... -_-'

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The severity of their disdain depended on the person. But there where people who would rather the series got killed off then it get put on respective platforms. As well, like you said, there were some people who were merely disappointed. And of course people were in there for the lulz. So much shit happened in that thread that two huge generalizations got formed. You had a point in your previous post though, that what i say doesn't apply to all of GAF. It sure as hell does apply to some of GAF though. I would say your last post is half right though.

Some of GAF is stupider than you thought. Some of GAF is smarter than they are taken account for. Also, some of GAF is stupider than you could ever imagine.

I honestly think it was rather the shock, than actually people really wanting the series die or any other of the genius ideas that come from that thread....

 

[fresquito]

The series has done great numbers on the PS2.
Yakuza is definitely a viable series in Japan, and it's selling more with each installment. We don't know what the numbers will be in the end.

Problem being here PS3 is nothing like PS2. There's this thing that prevents PS3 games from doing big numbers, this thing called install base.

Now, I'm not saying it's not viable, I'm just saying the notion that PS2 series did great in the past is screwing some people's perception. PS3 ain't PS2.

I played Wii sports actually, on the tennis game, you can't even control where your character is going, which really annoys me. I don't know, it think it is a game with cheap production value. I like Virtua Tennis way better.

Not sure about the golf tho.

You cannot move your player, but you can swing your racket and create efffects, aim and imput force depending on how you swing. I'd trade movement for this anyday.

However I'm not arguing which game is better, just pointing that Wii Soports is not this stupid game that people enjoy for no reason. Wii Sports is a very well crafted game that shows how the wiimote can change the gaming experience for the better when done right.

I hate to see Wii Sports being downplayed just because it's simple, like it has nothing else.

 

[KTallguy]

Wii Sports offers the best tennis controls in a videogame. The best golf controls in a videogame and the best bowling in a videogame. Bat swinging is better than button presses as well. Only Boxing is sucky. So yeah, the game does some things like no other game. If you are implying quality=complexity, you're wrong.

Wow. :lol

Best is relative. They may be best for someone who has never played games before. But after playing the game a while, the shallowness of your options and the general impreciseness becomes obvious.

Holding the Wii remote isn't the same as holding a tennis racket, golf club, or baseball bat. Not even close. Many of the "correct" motions are counter-intuitive to how you'd play the sport in real life.

Problem being here PS3 is nothing like PS2. There's this thing that prevents PS3 games from doing big numbers, this thing called install base.

Now, I'm not saying it's not viable, I'm just saying the notion that PS2 series did great in the past is screwing some people's perception. PS3 ain't PS2.

The reception of Yakuza 3 is pretty damn good for the install base. The brand is viable, and will continue to sell in Japan (US is a different story). As the install base for the PS3 continues to grow in Japan, fans who played the first two on PS2 will want to continue playing the series.

I'm not saying that the game is going to beat Final Fantasy. But it's a great seller for SEGA in Japan.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

Nintendo doesnt have to. Because honestly i dont think ms or sony could even imagine such an innovative and revolutionary controller such as the wiimote.

After playing wii play, godfather and excite truck im done with better graphics.

They don't have to invent it, Nintendo did it, they just need to copy if there is no patent issues.

I played Wii play and Wii sports, maybe just me, but I didn't feel the control is accurate and good enough for me to give up the graphics.

 

[KTallguy]

double post.

 

[gtj1092]

I think if you refer to my original statement which kswinton replied to, you'll see that's exactly what I already said. But with more style and grace.

Yeah I guess you're right. But wait I'm always right Mind melting:lol

 

[jakershaker]

Did people actually argue that they'd rather not have the game at all in any of those? And are they still around? If so, GAF is even more stupid than I thought.

Well both DQ and MH will get inferior or last gen versions instead of fully realised next(current) gen one.

They'll still be great games but it's easy to see why people get upset.

Imagine a HD Dragon Quest on PS3/360 and compare it to the game that we'll get on DS. It's not the same game. Some people like the idea of what they could have done with the series on better hardware instead of what the DS brings.

Same with Monster Hunter. Instead of going on a console with good online 360/PS3 and with great graphics we get something that will pretty much be comparable with the PSP version more or less.

The Wii/DS bring new stuff to the table but looses some things too. Depending on what you belive would be better for the game decides on where you want it to go. I personally would be really upset if Square decided to take the next FF to Wii/DS or anything below 360/PS3. For me the graphics/music/world/detail is a big part of the experience and I want it in HD. Some games are the other way around.

And I do belive that some franchises should aim for diffrent consoles(and that they actually will) because it fits the game. Next gen GTA can't be done on anything less then 360 or PS3 for example, not with what they want to achieve. You can't create the next level of city simulation without the physics and graphics that those two consoles bring.

 

[Hero of Legend]

The Wii is also getting the new Bomberman retail game exclusively, and it looks like the best console Bomberman game since perhaps Bomberman Online, or perhaps Generation, keep in mind Online came in 2001, and Generation in 2002, so BWii (heh, pun unintended) is the best console retail Bomberman game in at least 6 years.

I'd say that's a bit of a big deal, and don't forget about Sonic and the Secret Rings, which proved to be the far better of the two Next Gen debut games for Sonic.

I'm sure by December we would have seen a ton of big new Japanese Third Party Wii exclusives.

 

[KTallguy]

And I do belive that some franchises should aim for diffrent consoles(and that they actually will) because it fits the game. Next gen GTA can't be done on anything less then 360 or PS3 for example, not with what they want to achieve. You can't create the next level of city simulation without the physics and graphics that those two consoles bring.

Wait... what's this? Logic? In this thread?

 

[fresquito]

Wow. :lol

Best is relative. They may be best for someone who has never played games before. But after playing the game a while, the shallowness of your options and the general impreciseness becomes obvious.

Holding the Wii remote isn't the same as holding a tennis racket, golf club, or baseball bat. Not even close. Many of the "correct" motions are counter-intuitive to how you'd play the sport in real life.

I didn't say they mimicked real life movements to its fullest. I said they are better than any other controls up until now, and they are. They are very well done, not perfect, but very, very well done and far more inmersive than a button press will ever be.

You can say all you want about them being counter intuitive, but the fact is that you can give the wiimote to a 64 years old woman and she will be playing. So there it goes the truth of your statement.

The reception of Yakuza 3 is pretty damn good for the install base. The brand is viable, and will continue to sell in Japan (US is a different story). As the install base for the PS3 continues to grow in Japan, fans who played the first two on PS2 will want to continue playing the series.

I'm not saying that the game is going to beat Final Fantasy. But it's a great seller for SEGA in Japan.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bomb or it's doing bad or it's not viable. I'm saying it will end with good numbers, nothing to write home about. Numbers that FFCC2 will easilly surpass, even when it's a spinoff. It's a matter of install base. Many strong series become less strong the moment they appear on PS3 in Japan, because the install base. And that's all I want to say.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The Wii is also getting the new Bomberman retail game exclusively, and it looks like the best console Bomberman game since perhaps Bomberman Online, or perhaps Generation, keep in mind Online came in 2001, and Generation in 2002, so BWii (heh, pun unintended) is the best console retail Bomberman game in at least 6 years.

I'd say that's a bit of a big deal, and don't forget about Sonic and the Secret Rings, which proved to be the far better of the two Next Gen debut games for Sonic.

I'm sure by December we would have seen a ton of big new Japanese Third Party Wii exclusives.

A mediocre game, being better than a absolute crap one, isn't a huge deal, honestly....

 

[Barakov]

Nintendo doesnt have to. Because honestly i dont think ms or sony could even imagine such an innovative and revolutionary controller such as the wiimote.

After playing wii play, godfather and excite truck im done with better graphics.

So do you get get payed by the hour or the number of posts you make? I hope for your sake it's the former rather than the latter.

 

[jakershaker]

Wait... what's this? Logic? In this thread?

Sorry. Will try to avoid logic the next time :lol

 

[Dr von plutt]

They don't have to invent it, Nintendo did it, they just need to copy if there is no patent issues.

I played Wii play and Wii sports, maybe just me, but I didn't feel the control is accurate and good enough for me to give up the graphics.

What can i say.. most people disagree with you.

 

[KTallguy]

You can say all you want about them being counter intuitive, but the fact is that you can give the wiimote to a 64 years old woman and she will be playing. So there it goes the truth of your statement.

I understand what you're trying to say by "best".
But I don't care if I can give my grandma the controller and she can play. She's not me.

I'm not saying Nintendo didn't do a very powerful thing. I agree that the accessibility of the Wii remote is awesome. But they're accessible at the cost of depth. For me, this is not something that I can enjoy. There needs to be a happy medium: Accessibility + Depth.

Many strong series become less strong the moment they appear on PS3 in Japan, because the install base. And that's all I want to say.

You're right, but at the same time you have to think about the audiences who are buying the platform. Just because the Wii install base is high doesn't mean that Wii owners are the same people who bought Monster Hunter, Fatal Frame, Tales, etc. Judging by the sales of Mario Party over Mario Galaxy, I'd say they're generally more casual fans.

Final Fantasy is a game that sells to casual users too, so it's expected to do well on any platform, but I doubt that RPG heads in Japan will run and buy a Wii to play a spinoff.

Anecdotally, my friends who play Monster Hunter in Japan aren't very interested in a Wii version, most of their excitement is about the new PSP version.

High Install Base =/= Guaranteed sales of franchises unless the audience is the same.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Third parties had no trouble taking a massive gamble when they switched dicks to Sony's PS1 even though Sony had yet to release a system and prove they would not be the next 3DO.

So... It isn't about what sells. It's about industry politics, money hats, and whiny, talentless fanboy devs being overgrown graphics whores (what's gameplay? said random whore) that also think Nintendo's "kiddy image" is something that was created a gen or two ago. It wasn't and they know it. They weren't born five minutes ago. Mario and Zelda have always been "kiddy." There is nothing about Nintendo today that is any different than the Nintendo of the 80's and 90's, where they had all kinds of games selling. Refrain from the easy waggle comebacks because R.O.B. will say hi and probably beat up your entire families in SSBB.

The games of those days were usually better because of the limits those systems had. The creativity and focus on gameplay, while also not overdoing the cinematic aspects lead to more great "great games", at a higher ratio than what we get today. Today we get a lot of "not bads", "pretty goods", "a couple of greats", and some hyped up bad games polluting videogame history forever as I cry more over being surrounded by so many mediocre/generic "good/great" games, and the legacy this will create. I can't wait for those in the future who will call HD grapics "crappy" or "last gen", while carrying on the notion that graphics mean everything and creativity means "no job" like philosophy.

The Wii may be gimped, but it does force those who dev for it to be more creative, less graphic whorey. I wouldn't mind more creative whores to balance things out at least. There are a few out there now.

Graphics whores will stop being such when they decide to focus on all areas of developing, while not being a snob or history-less prick about going back and opening their minds to what made all those classic games so "overrated and nostalgia ridden" in their eyes.

Learn from the greats, gain a creative soul, and give an FU to those who encourage/enforce the graphic whore law, a.k.a. your corporate pimps.

[/rant and whore word usage over]

 

[Xeke]

They don't have to invent it, Nintendo did it, they just need to copy if there is no patent issues.

I played Wii play and Wii sports, maybe just me, but I didn't feel the control is accurate and good enough for me to give up the graphics.

That's because you're a graphics whore.



Hell, the DS is my main gaming platform and I wish all games were announced for it.

 

[M°°nblade]

Did people actually argue that they'd rather not have the game at all in any of those? And are they still around? If so, GAF is even more stupid than I thought.

Why? It's not because you are prepared to lower your standards for DQIX, everyone else should. I'm not saying I rather want S-E to kill the DQ franchise, but the day they announced the DQIX for the DS game, it already died for me.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

Nintendo could have fixed the problem simply by making Wii more powerful, but they didn't. At $250 price point, I think Nintendo is the only company making money out of hardware, which make me think they could have used some more powerful CPU and GPU, but keep the same price, just don't make alot money on hardware, but will make it back on software.

 

[Xeke]

Why? It's not because you are prepared to lower your standards for DQIX, everyone else should. I'm not saying I rather want S-E to kill the DQ franchise, but the day they announced the DQIX for the DS game, it already died for me.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Why? It's not because you are prepared to lower your standards for DQIX, everyone else should. I'm not saying I rather want S-E to kill the DQ franchise, but the day they announced the DQIX for the DS game, it already died for me.

I love how you know what's better for DQ over Yuji Horii.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

That's because you're a graphics whore.



Hell, the DS is my main gaming platform and I wish all games were announced for it.

Thank god we have some alternatives other than DS. Imaging DMC4, NG2 on DS.
Game like DQ9 for DS has already turned some fans down. DQ9 for DS is purely a finacial decision. And DQ series is not known for outstanding graphics anyway, which can sort of work out on DS.

 

[TigersFan]

Next gen GTA can't be done on anything less then 360 or PS3 for example, not with what they want to achieve. You can't create the next level of city simulation without the physics and graphics that those two consoles bring.

I never thought the day would come when someone called GTA a simulation.

 

[Redd]

Nintendo could have fixed the problem simply by making Wii more powerful, but they didn't. At $250 price point, I think Nintendo is the only company making money out of hardware, which make me think they could have used some more powerful CPU and GPU, but keep the same price, just don't make alot money on hardware, but will make it back on software.

Man what I would give for a HD Wii. Can't really blame them though they tried going head to head with the competition last gen and got burned. I don't even think Nintendo knew the Wii would be this big so fast or they might have put a little more power under the hood. I blame all of you who didn't support the Gamecube last gen..........you know who you are, reap it.

 

[jakershaker]

I never thought the day would come when someone called GTA a simulation.

I'm not calling the game itself a simulation. But a living city is pretty much required to take the next step in the series.

 

[Xeke]

Thank god we have some alternatives other than DS. Imaging DMC4, NG2 on DS.

2D sprites FTW!

 

[Threi]

Thank god we have some alternatives other than DS. Imaging DMC4, NG2 on DS.

If Chrono 3, Street Fighter IV, Metroid Prime 4, No More Heroes 2, and Trackmania (3?) were announced on DS....















...i would just buy a DS.


And i would enjoy the games.


And i would be happy.


And not bitch how the industry is trying to screw me over.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I honestly think it was rather the shock, than actually people really wanting the series die or any other of the genius ideas that come from that thread....

Why? It's not because you are prepared to lower your standards for DQIX, everyone else should. I'm not saying I rather want S-E to kill the DQ franchise, but the day they announced the DQIX for the DS game, it already died for me.

Ok..., I was just owned....

 

[Sadist]

Why? It's not because you are prepared to lower your standards for DQIX, everyone else should. I'm not saying I rather want S-E to kill the DQ franchise, but the day they announced the DQIX for the DS game, it already died for me.

Hiya Moonblade! What ya' doing?

You know how I think about this one

 

[Durante]

There is nothing about Nintendo today that is any different than the Nintendo of the 80's and 90's

And there you have one of the reasons why some (especially Japanese) third parties may be wary of total Nintendo domination.

Why? It's not because you are prepared to lower your standards for DQIX, everyone else should. I'm not saying I rather want S-E to kill the DQ franchise, but the day they announced the DQIX for the DS game, it already died for me.

I'm not "prepared to lower my standards", because DQ is the one S-E franchise I don't care about.

But if a series I love went DS you can bet that there would be plenty gnashing of teeth, yet I'd still buy, play, and hopefully even enjoy it. As I said, it still beats not having a game at all -- if you can't see that then that is indeed idiotic.

 

[fresquito]

I understand what you're trying to say by "best".
But I don't care if I can give my grandma the controller and she can play. She's not me.

I'm not saying Nintendo didn't do a very powerful thing. I agree that the accessibility of the Wii remote is awesome. But they're accessible at the cost of depth. For me, this is not something that I can enjoy. There needs to be a happy medium: Accessibility + Depth.

Well, Wii Sports controls are deep in many senses. For istance, Tennis is very deep, only you cannot control the movement of your player (big thing, I know). But the swinging is really deep. You can do awesome effects and some crazy shots when you know how to do them. Golf controls are quite deep too, although spinning is lacking. Bowling controls are almost flawless.

Now, I'm not implying they are perfect or saying they cannot be improved or taken to new levels of depth. I'm saying they are really good. No sports game has perfect controls, it's just it's fun to complain about Wii Sports not being perfect while enjoying VT, which is also really far from perfection. Winning Eleven series have had some pretty control choices from the get go, and none complains about that.

Point being: Wii Sports does much more right things in the controls than wrongs, even for a hadcrore player, like myself. I simply want more. I want a full Wii Tennis with player movement, I want a full Wii golf and I already have a full bowling game :lol

You're right, but at the same time you have to think about the audiences who are buying the platform. Just because the Wii install base is high doesn't mean that Wii owners are the same people who bought Monster Hunter, Fatal Frame, Tales, etc. Judging by the sales of Mario Party over Mario Galaxy, I'd say they're generally more casual fans.

Final Fantasy is a game that sells to casual users too, so it's expected to do well on any platform, but I doubt that RPG heads in Japan will run and buy a Wii to play a spinoff.

Anecdotally, my friends who play Monster Hunter in Japan aren't very interested in a Wii version, most of their excitement is about the new PSP version.

High Install Base =/= Guaranteed sales of franchises unless the audience is the same.

Taking this into account, sooner or later, hardcore gamers will adopt the console with the biggest install base, because it won't only be MH3, it will be many other games. It's happened with DS, when the first RPGs were announced people said they wpouldn't sell, because the same reasons you named. Now DS is RPG land.

Of course there will be bombs left and right, but that's bound to happen in every system. None remembers the craying and laughs that AWDS' bombing caused in MC threads.

 

[jakershaker]

I'm still confused why people choose to focus only on graphics and control methods. It's not the only thing making a Wii game and 360/PS3 game different. Hardware enables you to do stuff, simple as that. Depending on what hardware each console has it decided which kind of games that can be made for it.

You can't boil it down to only being about graphics and controls. Games are about much more then that.

 

[xaosslug]

all I know is Wii's getting Oboro Muramasa Youtouden, and the day that shit's localisation is announced: I'M BUYING A Wii.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

If Chrono 3, Street Fighter IV, Metroid Prime 4, No More Heroes 2, and Trackmania (3?) were announced on DS....















...i would just buy a DS.


And i would enjoy the games.


And i would be happy.


And not bitch how the industry is trying to screw me over.

heh, if Street Fighter IV is announced as DS exclusive, see how many people will be happy.:lol

 

[Redd]

If Chrono 3, Street Fighter IV, Metroid Prime 4, No More Heroes 2, Mega Man Legends 3 and Trackmania (3?) were announced on DS....

...i would just buy a DS.


And i would enjoy the games.


And i would be happy.


And not bitch how the industry is trying to screw me over.

Heh fixed.

 

[Xeke]

heh, if Street Fighter IV is announced as DS exclusive, see how many people will be happy.:lol

If it were 2D and on the DS. Fuck yes.

It's at this point in the conversation where I start hoping your games get put on Wii or DS just to spite you because you're so against it for some reason.

 

[gtj1092]

I love how you know what's better for DQ over Yuji Horii.

Lets not act like this was a creative decision. Like you all claim its about the money. DQ always goes to the most popular system.

 

[virtuafightermaster]

If it were 2D and on the DS. Fuck yes.

It's at this point in the conversation where I start hoping your games get put on Wii or DS just to spite you because you're so against it for some reason.

DS's 2d ability probably not as good as Saturn, and Street Fighter 4 is in 3D. Thats why certain game is aimed for certain console with capable hardware power. I can see a watered down Wii version, but why would any one want to play it on Wii, it doesn't even take the advantage of the controller.

 

[M°°nblade]

I love how you know what's better for DQ over Yuji Horii.

What? I wasn't saying what's better for the series (however I'm sure a DS game is financially better) but what I'm interested in playing. And a DS game doesn't qualify for me. At least not for DQ.

Hiya Moonblade! What ya' doing?

Chillin' in a sales threa ofcourse

But if a series I love went DS you can bet that there would be plenty gnashing of teeth, yet I'd still buy, play, and hopefully even enjoy it.

True, it depends on your loyalty towards the franchise.