CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
They can talk about 10 year product life cycles all they like, but we all know that their hand will once again be forced due to the premature launches from the competition.
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SCEA's Steinberg On 'Future-Proofing' A Ten-Year PS3
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
squatingyeti
non-sanctioned troll
tha_con said:
Potential, that's what we're paying for. Just like your statement has potential to be correct, but it doesn't look like it will live up to that "potential" at this stage.
MWS Natural
Member
kitch9 said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol Have you even been paying attention to what has been going on the past two years? I can't believe people are still on this "PS3 shall rise from the grave!!!11" shit. Sure the PS3 is becoming more competitive but to say that it will follow the PS2 is pretty ludicrous.
dead souls
Member
tha_con said:
You're referring to your own delusional posts with this statement, aren't you?
Pretty much. I really thought GAF collective was over this phase by now. I'm not saying that there won't be some kinda spike from time to time and maybe even a more permanent bump if Sony pulls something entirely unexpected (like some kinda must-have peripheral or game), but by and large, I think the PS3 is where it's going to stay.MWS Natural said:
Rollo Lawson
Banned
solid2snake said:
hilarious
whatever the plan is for ps4, i just hope developers get a big enough head start - so we dont have to wait so long for games next time
JoshuaJSlone
Member
My parent's lifespan didn't end when mine began.TheHeretic said:
Considering PS2 still hasn't, and Wii has been outpacing it... 2015? After I convert my old road car into a skyway flyer, I'll go pick up a $100 Wii.felipeko said:
I think those numbers came from a Nintendo sheet that only got as specific as yearly, so it would tend to hide the way quarterly numbers jump around. Still, having full years of 9 million, 7 million, and 7 million is pretty steady._leech_ said:
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Burai said:
Exactly. PS2 is doing amazing considering they weren't making any sort of plans for "10 year cycles" with their consoles back when they released it, now they're hoping for support like that for all three of their current platforms. It's understandable to doubt they can keep going for a full 10 years, but PS2 is getting games like Mercenaries 2, Force Unleashed, Dynasty Warriors 6 and Persona 4 this year and still pulling some rather strong numbers in the west, particularly during the holidays. To some people it may not look like they're going to pull a full 10 years with the PS2, but to those who are making money off of it, they sure as hell will.
Beer Monkey
Member
My launch PSP can't Skype so I guess they obsoleted my ass.
Omotesando
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS2 is still NOT in Gamecube/Xbox like status in its 11 year lifespan. Consoles with 100+ mil userbase do have that privilige.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Opiate said:
I see what you're saying, and this is the only instance in which I could see Sony sticking with the PS3 for ten years.
The problem I have with this though is that it's looking at the Playstation business in a bubble. The market has changed; I think Sony of all companies would find it foolish to keep playing the game under a set of old rules. We have to ask ourselves; will Sony go down with the ship, or will they do what Nintendo and Microsoft did and pull the plug earlier to increase their chances of fortune later? Looking at what the PS3 has done (and is doing) what is the long-term worth of staying in the race this long? Everyday they wait they lose ground to Microsoft in NA and the Wii worldwide. Is it wrong to assume they would want to level the playing field again by focusing full tilt on PS4?
Burai said:
Again, this is looking at the business in a bubble. Why exactly would people be picking the cheap PS3 over a cheap Wii?
Flakster99
Member
I haven't participated in these 10 year plan threads, but here goes.
Strictly speaking, Japan would like to have a word with Steinberg's ten-year plan. As would the DS, the PSP, the Wii, and their eventual successors, and whomever, whatever else becomes popular. Microsoft will look to continue building towards something better with 3rd parties as well. Nintendo, and to a lesser extent Microsoft, could fuck it all up in the next round, but I'll let the pundits and Sony execs entertain us with such thoughts.
I'm still trying to understand how Sony can calculate how many 'active users' the PS2 has. Worse still how Sony in this day and age of unpredictability can predict, take a stance on such a figure that is 7+ years away.
Hello to you too NES.
Strictly speaking, Japan would like to have a word with Steinberg's ten-year plan. As would the DS, the PSP, the Wii, and their eventual successors, and whomever, whatever else becomes popular. Microsoft will look to continue building towards something better with 3rd parties as well. Nintendo, and to a lesser extent Microsoft, could fuck it all up in the next round, but I'll let the pundits and Sony execs entertain us with such thoughts.
I'm still trying to understand how Sony can calculate how many 'active users' the PS2 has. Worse still how Sony in this day and age of unpredictability can predict, take a stance on such a figure that is 7+ years away.
Burai said:
Hello to you too NES.
Paracelsus
Member
Weisheit said:
Because a system with no strong support from third parties is basically a useless system for the mainstream.
PS3 is getting as many releases as the other competitors. The main difference here is the price.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
deepbrown said:
What first party games are coming out this year for the PS2?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Paracelsus said:
Anytime somebody says something like this I feel compelled to ask: Why would the PS3 be more successful with the same games? Your statement assumes the PS3 will be the preferred choice over the 360 and Wii.
Flakster99
Member
Paracelsus said:
Eloquently said.
The only reason I could see the PS3 - ie. not the market leading console, the PS2, and therefore under very different circumstances - surviving for ten years is one in which we take the concept that the market has changed in a different way. We consistently discuss what's happened in previous years, but the Wii sort of flies in the face of conventional wisdom and has disrupted the market - perhaps providing their opponents a different path by which to proceed.
What if by fracturing the market so strongly they've actually created some opportunity for the PS3 and 360 to work more similarly to PCs? It's no secret that there are plenty of people with old computers who actively still use them for this or that, whereas the rest of us - the more high-end users - tend to jump ship to the next shift sooner. Like people have mentioned before about Sony taking hardware that has failed in one purpose and shifted it towards another to great benefit, perhaps they could release firmware and peripherals for the PS3 that would essentially turn it into a TV-based entertainment PC. Now, obviously they could buy PCs for relatively the same price as the PS3 at some point and have them be more powerful, but the ease of use a console offers might provide it some advantage in such a direction. Convenience over power. That would of course assume that Sony sees that direction and decides to go there, blatantly bringing the confrontation with Microsoft to another level - one we know they're both heading for anyway.
Anyway, just thinking out loud.
What if by fracturing the market so strongly they've actually created some opportunity for the PS3 and 360 to work more similarly to PCs? It's no secret that there are plenty of people with old computers who actively still use them for this or that, whereas the rest of us - the more high-end users - tend to jump ship to the next shift sooner. Like people have mentioned before about Sony taking hardware that has failed in one purpose and shifted it towards another to great benefit, perhaps they could release firmware and peripherals for the PS3 that would essentially turn it into a TV-based entertainment PC. Now, obviously they could buy PCs for relatively the same price as the PS3 at some point and have them be more powerful, but the ease of use a console offers might provide it some advantage in such a direction. Convenience over power. That would of course assume that Sony sees that direction and decides to go there, blatantly bringing the confrontation with Microsoft to another level - one we know they're both heading for anyway.
Anyway, just thinking out loud.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
deepbrown said:
Well, you said:
deepbrown said:
So I'm wondering what games they are making for the system this year. Or is it that you are saying that it's just PR speak that they have to say they will support it even though in reality they won't?
Paracelsus said:
This is simply not the case: as of last count, the Wii had nearly twice as many titles released as the PS3 did in the US, and presumably that gap will grow.
It's particularly important to note this because many of the titles not being released are precisely the sorts of titles casual gamers tend to prefer -- licensed titles (Space Chimps: The Movie was a recent example, but other films like Meet the Robinsons and High School the Musical either never saw a release on that platform) and "party" games are specifically lacking in comparison to the competitor's.
Zombie James
Banned
Opiate said:
Hear that, Sony? You need more shit on your system to attract teh casuals.
1. Lair sequel.
2. Lair sequel with nothing but sixaxis mini-games.
3. Lair sequel with nothing but sixaxis mini-games and cute, pink dragons.
4. ???
5. Victory.
Cancel LittleBigPlanet immediately, we need Lair 2: Medieval Shenaniganz.
Paracelsus
Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I'm not a total imbecile. I never thought, NEVER, not even for a second, that PS3 can beat Wii.
You can stay here and argue all the way with those deluded people convinced PS3's rival is Wii.
Truth is that Wii is way beyond PS3, and that PS3 has to do whatever it takes to not end up like the Gamecube, and get the second place as soon as possible, in order to not lose what's left of its mindshare.
Now, the only thing left to do in order to do that is low the price as much as possible.
I don't believe in the "richer offer instead of a pricecut". I do even wonder if the 80gb SKU will survive this winter against the 360 without a pricecut.
Again, I find weird that there are still people who even bother themselves to answer to those who believe PS3 can beat Wii.
_leech_ said:
What do you want me to say? I don't personally enjoy many party games or licensed properties either, but they're clearly important to some people and are relevant parts of a system's catalog, particularly for the casual audience. The PS3 is lacking a robust library in this area compared to its competitors.
Someone stated something, I corrected it. I really didn't want to start an argument; this isn't a PS3 am doomed post.
charlequin
Banned
There's a reason the PS3 might have a ten-year lifespan, but that's because this console generation is going to go much longer than any before it due to the longer dev cycles and the hardware pricing decisions made upfront.
It's not going to be because Sony has some magic plan to assure a 10-year lifecycle for their system. What makes a system live past its successor's release is further game support. Hardware makers can't afford to spend their resources releasing new games for their old system when their new baby most needs it, so that would leave it open to third-parties -- who Sony have said they're not courting as aggressively this time, and who regardless never stick around on the also-ran systems after a new generation has begun.
What we can take away from this is that Sony is saying they won't leap to start the next generation -- that they'll keep this one going longer if they can help it rather than leap to a new launch to get a leg up on the next gen. Since Microsoft's focus on "profitability" suggests that they too will hold out for a while until their system can actually get down to more accessible prices, there's no obvious candidate to start the next gen and we probably will see it last 8 years as I suggest above.
It's really not. I think FPS might be literally the only genre in which PS2 did not hold a commanding lead in both quality and depth of its library over both competing systems. I seriously won't even believe someone who says they're a console gamer but couldn't find twenty games fully worthy of their time in the PS2 library.
Price drops don't boost consoles into new realms of sales (just eliminate losses taken as buyers at the last price point ran out), I know that you know this, so on its face this seems like a pretty odd argument to be making!
It's not going to be because Sony has some magic plan to assure a 10-year lifecycle for their system. What makes a system live past its successor's release is further game support. Hardware makers can't afford to spend their resources releasing new games for their old system when their new baby most needs it, so that would leave it open to third-parties -- who Sony have said they're not courting as aggressively this time, and who regardless never stick around on the also-ran systems after a new generation has begun.
What we can take away from this is that Sony is saying they won't leap to start the next generation -- that they'll keep this one going longer if they can help it rather than leap to a new launch to get a leg up on the next gen. Since Microsoft's focus on "profitability" suggests that they too will hold out for a while until their system can actually get down to more accessible prices, there's no obvious candidate to start the next gen and we probably will see it last 8 years as I suggest above.
Xisiqomelir said:
It's really not. I think FPS might be literally the only genre in which PS2 did not hold a commanding lead in both quality and depth of its library over both competing systems. I seriously won't even believe someone who says they're a console gamer but couldn't find twenty games fully worthy of their time in the PS2 library.
tha_con said:
Price drops don't boost consoles into new realms of sales (just eliminate losses taken as buyers at the last price point ran out), I know that you know this, so on its face this seems like a pretty odd argument to be making!
DeaconKnowledge
Member
_leech_ said:
Do you even know what you're arguing? Do you honestly believe everybody with a PS2 is buying MGS3, GoW2, and DMC3? While you may not acknowledge it, party titles and shovelware push sales of consoles. The PS3 lacking these will only look bad for it long term.
charlequin said:
Historically you are almost universally correct -- except, perhaps, for the example of the PS3 itself. After the price drop to 399 last Holiday Season, the PS3 has been consistently performing nearly 100% better YoY since that time, month after month, in the US.
It's possible this is a one time bump (as in, more price drops will not have this effect), and it's possible this was more due to other factors (such as a much better year in terms of game releases, and the Blu Ray victory), but regardless, the PS3 stands as one of if not the only example of a system benefitting significantly long term after a price drop.
I'm not exactly counting on sales increases, but it doesn't seem out of the question to me now.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
a lot of people are cynical about the ten year thing, but i always thought it was a legit agenda on sony's part. i mean yeah the ps4 may come a little before its predecessor is phased out. but the psp proved that you don't have to be on the top to have a succcesful platform and the return doesn't have to come istantaneously (i.e, not as fast as wii or ds)
plus, ten years isn't really that long, and this is gen is very unconventional so you cant cite the past as how console life factors in
plus, ten years isn't really that long, and this is gen is very unconventional so you cant cite the past as how console life factors in
Zombie James
Banned
Opiate said:
It's nothing personal, don't worry. I just find it stupid that in this generation people seem to be more preoccupied with systems getting horrible games than they are about getting them out. People should be striving for and demanding the best from third parties, not the other way around. Does that mean no party or licensed game ever? No, there can be good, quality party titles, but people shouldn't welcome the bad ones with open arms in hopes that their fucking grandmother might hold a controller for 10 seconds.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Paracelsus said:
I hear you, however opportunity cost alone suggests that Sony will not be as successful as necessary to maintain the PS3 (which is why I brought it up).
That's WHY the GameCube died an abrupt death: why buy a Cube when you can get more games for the PS2? PS3 is looking to draw an analogue with the Cube in this regard; people will forego the PS3 for the Wii as both consoles get cheaper. The rich get richer, the poor poorer.
This is why you hear Sony (and their devout fans) overstating the "value" of Blu-Ray as a reason for the PS3s long-term success: while it will no doubt move kit, it's not going to buoy the console in the face of a dwindling library, new competition from next-gen systems, and the inevitable cheap Wii (and 360) that will rear its head.
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