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[maxcriden]

But the data also show something else:

Wealthier parents have been stepping up education spending so aggressively that they're widening the nation's wealth gap. When the Great Recession struck in late 2007 and squeezed most family budgets, the top 10 percent of earners — with incomes averaging $253,146 — went in a different direction: They doubled down on their kids' futures.

Their average education spending per child jumped 35 percent to $5,210 a year during the recession compared with the two preceding years — and they sustained that faster pace through the recovery. For the remaining 90 percent of households, such spending averaged around a flat $1,000, according to research by Emory University sociologist Sabino Kornrich.

"People at the top just have so much income now that they're easily able to spend more on their kids," Kornrich said.

Between 2007 and 2011, enrollment at private elementary and secondary schools whose annual tuition averaged $28,340 jumped 36 percent, according to federal data. The intensified reach for the costliest schools occurred even as enrollment in private schools overall fell.

Most families can't compete. Incomes have barely budged for most Americans since 1980 after accounting for inflation. For the top 10 percent, IRS data show pay has jumped 80 percent after inflation. For the top 1 percent, it's soared 177 percent

On top of that, there are the tutors. An average SAT tutor advertised through WyzAnt charges $51.20 an hour, double the average U.S. wage.

Thomas Piketty, the French economist whose exploration of tax data helped expose the wealth gap, has argued that education "is the most powerful equalizing force in the long run."

Affluent parents tend to get what they pay for: Their children score 125 points higher on SATs than those from the poorest homes, up from a gap of 90 points during the 1980s, according to research by Reardon, the Stanford professor.

"The worry is that it becomes a feedback loop, where the children of the rich do the best in school, and those who do best in school become rich," Reardon said.

Some middle-income parents have come to feel that personal sacrifices are an acceptable price for giving their child a potential edge.

Tysha Wheeler-Timmons of Rahway, New Jersey, a contract coordinator for a pharmaceutical company who is married to a truck driver, earns modest pay. But she took a part-time security job to pay for $3,000 in tutoring for her daughter, Shayla, a high school senior aiming for an Ivy League bioengineering degree.

Full article at the link: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/school-spending-affluent-widening-wealth-164018926.html

Selected comments (I got a bit carried away with these this time):

When I call parents of problem kids about getting their kids to get their work done or to come to FREE after-school tutorials to get caught up or for help. I GET NO SUPPORT OR HELP. NADA. ZIP. NOOOOOTHIIIING. At best, I get some lip service but the next day, week, month, nothing changes. No matter how much I call. IT IS NOT ECONOMICS OR UNDER-FUNDED SCHOOLS. My grandparents, parents, and I learned far more than these kids at schools with half the resources BECAUSE OUR PARENTS VALUED DISCIPLINE AND EDUCATION.

We have a sick society, sick values, with parents who no longer buy into this nation's traditional values re work and education. I DO NOT SEE ANY FIX ON THE HORIZON.

Perhaps if a public school education was what it used to be, then all kids would be prepared for higher education. We waste 100's of millions on schooling illegal aliens and protecting bad teachers with tenure. The rich have always been able to send their kids to the best schools, everyone else would too if they had the means. Part of the problem is that many parents expect the schools to raise their kids, and they aren't involved with their what their child is doing there.

I went to an excellent private high school and studied hard to achieve the best grades possible, mostly A's. I thought intelligence and good grades were a gateway to success. At my 30 year reunion, I met a lot of classmates that were more successful than me. These classmates didn't achieve better grades, but in the long run, they were successful. The common denominator was none of our families were wealthy. Building wealth doesn't always build intelligence, nor does it build success. There are also a lot of wealthy failures out there. If you're not wealthy, just try to put yourself in the best possible light, have a conscience and focus. We all gauge success differently.

Make no mistake about it, the spending has nothing to do with them trying to "widen the wealth gap", it has everything to do with the abject failure we call the public school system which has been ruined by teachers' unions, heavy handedness from the federal government, core curriculum, and that stupid "Let's Move" campaign that is basically starving our children while they're at school.

If the middle class and poor had the money they would be doing the same thing. This is why we need to have school vouchers for those who want to send their kids to private schools. This would give the poor and the middle class a more even playing field.

This is as bad an article as I have read in a long time, preschool has zero to do with wealth..... zero........ taxes and regulations squeeze the middle class so much that they live pay check to pay check and can't save and invest, so that leaves only a very small percent of people the ability to grow wealth, also successful people have great contacts and can get their children a leg up when they look for work... If progressive policies worked the former Soviet Union would be the economic power and have a huge immigration problem, so as we move politically left expect the gap between rich and poor to continue to grow, of course we have been for a decade that's why its happening now

We live in one of the top school districts in the state, yet my toddler is in private pre-school. He won't go to public school, either.

Fifty years ago, living in a good school district was enough. I got a great education living where I did, but that no longer matters. Even good districts dumb down huge swaths of curricula. I want my son and future son or daughter (too soon to know the sex yet) to have the same opportunities I did. Unfortunately, that means private schooling.

I hate these articles. Is yahoo trying to rub it in that we are all uneducated trash if we aren't on the Forbs list? Of course rich people are going to have better educated kids. What is the surprise. Does the poll also show that rich people are also prone to make good looking offspring. Rich men who get a trophy wife are more likely to have good looking kids. Same goes for athletic parents. Sure there are always exceptions,but generally money can buy everything. Including buying your way into a better gene pool.

Hire me as an SAT tutor if old. Seriously. That's a lot of dough.

 

[bro1]

I see no problem with anybody spending as much as they can afford to get their children the best education possible. When I was living in South Carolina, my wife and I spent $15K a year to put our kid in private elementary school because we didn't want to put him in Public school. We couldn't afford it but we found a way to cut out many things in our lives to make it possible. We now live in a Chicago suburb and have our kid in public school as the tax base here makes it possible.

As for the comments from that site, the union bashing and federal government hating is hilarious. My favorite comment has to be about the guy who is complaining that we are starving our children due to the new food guidelines. The teachers arent the problem, the government isnt the problem, its the bad parenting and the overpopulation.

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

 

[LegendofLex]

I find the comments to be more fascinating than the article, really (my wife is a teacher). Really great representations of a lot of common opinions about education:

1) It is actually true that many parents today don't have a clue about how to help their kids succeed, or don't put forth effort when asked. (There are, of course, lots of parents who do as well.)

EDIT: this, also

When you are single parent and have to work two jobs because of the wealth gap, there is really no time or energy for your kids education.

2) There have always been bad teachers. My mother-in-law is in her 50s and described a particularly bad one from her childhood. These bad teachers are not some innovation of the last 30 years that have flourished thanks to tenure protections. Tenure is a flawed system, but it is not designed to protect them. It is designed to protect teachers from being dismissed for political reasons (they can, however, still be dismissed, but just cause is required). It's the same logic used in the justice system--if you tenure your staff, they don't have to worry about being fired just because they rule a certain way (judges) or teach something that certain people don't like (see this thread for examples).

3) Vouchers are an interesting idea, but without creating more and better alternatives to public schools, they won't actually solve any of the problems. People often cite the spending gap between public and private schools (the cost per student at a private school is about 66% that of a public school) as evidence that public school is wasteful, but most of the difference is due to better teacher pay at public schools (private school teachers make about 75% as much as public school teachers--and are definitely not paid enough) and services like buses. And that's, I believe, before you factor in how much the parents spend on their own. You get some benefits like smaller class sizes, but the main "difference in where your money is going" amounts to smaller paychecks for teachers and fewer student services.

4) I've seen enough "middle class people living paycheck to paycheck" to know that most of them would have a much easier time if they accepted a more modest standard of living. Even I'm not saving as much as I should, but I'm still investing in my retirement, and I know that my problem is not my take-home pay but my standard of living.

5) I like how many people who know nothing about education outside of the fact that they went to school as kids have decided that they know how bad the curriculum is today.

6) It's always amusing to see people shoot the messenger.

 

[WorldStar]

More power to them

 

[shira]

We waste 100's of millions on schooling illegal aliens and protecting bad teachers with tenure.

Ouch. Low blow.

 

[Dougald]

I see no problem with anybody spending as much as they can afford to get their children the best education possible. When I was living in South Carolina, my wife and I spent $15K a year to put our kid in private elementary school because we didn't want to put him in Public school. We couldn't afford it but we found a way to cut out many things in our lives to make it possible. We now live in a Chicago suburb and have our kid in public school as the tax base here makes it possible.

As for the comments from that site, the union bashing and federal government hating is hilarious. My favorite comment has to be about the guy who is complaining that we are starving our children due to the new food guidelines. The teachers arent the problem, the government isnt the problem, its the bad parenting and the overpopulation.

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

Dude that's a pretty disgusting sentiment

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Dude that's a pretty disgusting sentiment

yeah, i saw that too and was like 😳 wow kinda gross!

 

[theechrisfox]

Those SAT instructors better stack their cash, because that test in particular is trending toward being belly-up at some point. And people who can afford to send their kids to expensive private schools are essentially being treated to the illusion of a better education than public schools. I think this article is trying to jam the wealth gap problem into a place where it doesn't really make sense.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I see no problem with anybody spending as much as they can afford to get their children the best education possible. When I was living in South Carolina, my wife and I spent $15K a year to put our kid in private elementary school because we didn't want to put him in Public school. We couldn't afford it but we found a way to cut out many things in our lives to make it possible. We now live in a Chicago suburb and have our kid in public school as the tax base here makes it possible.

As for the comments from that site, the union bashing and federal government hating is hilarious. My favorite comment has to be about the guy who is complaining that we are starving our children due to the new food guidelines. The teachers arent the problem, the government isnt the problem, its the bad parenting and the overpopulation.

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

You want to cull those who can hear? Jesus christ dude that's horrible!

 

[SimleuqiR]

When I call parents of problem kids about getting their kids to get their work done or to come to FREE after-school tutorials to get caught up or for help. I GET NO SUPPORT OR HELP. NADA. ZIP. NOOOOOTHIIIING. At best, I get some lip service but the next day, week, month, nothing changes. No matter how much I call. IT IS NOT ECONOMICS OR UNDER-FUNDED SCHOOLS. My grandparents, parents, and I learned far more than these kids at schools with half the resources BECAUSE OUR PARENTS VALUED DISCIPLINE AND EDUCATION.

We have a sick society, sick values, with parents who no longer buy into this nation's traditional values re work and education. I DO NOT SEE ANY FIX ON THE HORIZON.

When you are single parent and have to work two jobs because of the wealth gap, there is really no time or energy for your kids education.

 

[davepoobond]

You want to cull those who can hear? Jesus christ dude that's horrible!

no, i believe that means cull the people who have been heard talking

 

[Uncle_Classy]

The problem here isn't so much that the rich can afford to give their children the best education they can. It's that education costs have been inflated so much that now it is ONLY the very wealthy who can afford to buy their children decent educations, thereby creating the feed-back loop which the article mentions. Middle and low income families can't afford good education, meaning their children won't have a chance at any kind of upward mobility. It's a classic case of the rich staying rich and the poor staying poor.

 

[whatsinaname]

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

But what if the first people culled are those that can't spell? What then?

 

[AstroNut325]

I'm not in the top 10% but I'm trying to find a way to get a home in a good school district in Southern California (Los Angeles). Unfortunately, that means buying a house I can technically cannot afford. My other option is private school. But that's $10-12K a year. I'm trying my best to find some other means of making money alongside my job.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I think almost everyone wants best for their children and education is one of the ways to help them in their future no matter rich or poor. Money makes it easier and there are many parents that will sacrifice a lot for education. There are also a lot of parents that do not know what to do or look at education as a ROI for their family's future.

 

[outunderthestars]

More power to them

Have to say that I agree.

 

[numble]

Those SAT instructors better stack their cash, because that test in particular is trending toward being belly-up at some point. And people who can afford to send their kids to expensive private schools are essentially being treated to the illusion of a better education than public schools. I think this article is trying to jam the wealth gap problem into a place where it doesn't really make sense.

I don't think its an illusion. The top colleges usually have around 40% of students that came from private schools, when nationally 90% of students go to public schools. If you look at the percentages of public school students that went to magnets like the Stuyvesants and Bronx Sciences, the percentage of students at top colleges that went to a "normal" public school is even lower.

 

[ICKE]

Thank God we don't have a privatized university system in Finland. We might not be able to compete with the best (for example Helsinki is usually ranked around 50-60) but at least over here you have to pass an admission test. If you have enough motivation then you will get inside and there are no tuition fees.

Education should be state funded and based on personal achievement. You can never discount social factors of course, people from broken families have a tough road even if these possibilities exist, but we as a society should not exacerbate the gap.

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

 

[Kraftwerk]

I see no problem with anybody spending as much as they can afford to get their children the best education possible. When I was living in South Carolina, my wife and I spent $15K a year to put our kid in private elementary school because we didn't want to put him in Public school. We couldn't afford it but we found a way to cut out many things in our lives to make it possible. We now live in a Chicago suburb and have our kid in public school as the tax base here makes it possible.

As for the comments from that site, the union bashing and federal government hating is hilarious. My favorite comment has to be about the guy who is complaining that we are starving our children due to the new food guidelines. The teachers arent the problem, the government isnt the problem, its the bad parenting and the overpopulation.

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

what the fuck?

 

[Vicetrailia]

Thank God we don't have a privatized university system in Finland. We might not be able to compete with the best (for example Helsinki is usually ranked around 50-60) but at least over here you have to pass an admission test. If you have enough motivation then you will get inside and there are no tuition fees.

Very nice, but what happens if you screw up the first time, can you redeem yourself? It's not like you get one opportunity and it's over right?

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

What happens when you tie the education system to property tax.

Schools suffer in poverty stricken areas suffer and thus the majority suffer.

Even worse is when fed/state funding to help schools in low income areas still make their way help schools in wealthier areas than the low income areas.

 

[The Technomancer]

As with most of these kind of stories

No doy

 

[ICKE]

Very nice, but what happens if you screw up the first time, can you redeem yourself? It's not like you get one opportunity and it's over right?

You can take the test as many times as you want.

I did not study hard enough on my first try, the competition for law school is rather fierce. The good thing is that even though people come from different backgrounds you know that everyone has put in a lot of effort.

 

[xnipx]

So when everybody who can afford to sends all their kids to private school and due to the demand all the decent to great teachers leave public school then what?

 

[jay]

I can't believe teachers make that much money!

Wait, wrong thread.

 

[Deified Data]

Impossible to feel bad about rich parents investing in their childen's future - that's a responsible use of wealth if I ever saw one. I'm more concerned with the causes of the wealth gap, not the (positive in this instance) effects. You can argue that educating the rich is only going to make them richer, but I'd never want to live in a world where families were encouraged to invest less in their kids.

 

[theechrisfox]

I don't think its an illusion. The top colleges usually have around 40% of students that came from private schools, when nationally 90% of students go to public schools. If you look at the percentages of public school students that went to magnets like the Stuyvesants and Bronx Sciences, the percentage of students at top colleges that went to a "normal" public school is even lower.

I would be more interested to see what kind of financial background those students at top colleges have. If the correlation can be boiled down to socioeconomic status then of course public school students from middle to low income families won't be going to a very expensive secondary school. I think there is a lot more that goes into admissions decisions than private vs. public primary education.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

What happens when you tie the education system to property tax.

Schools suffer in poverty stricken areas suffer and thus the majority suffer.

Even worse is when fed/state funding to help schools in low income areas still make their way help schools in wealthier areas than the low income areas.

Actually this is how it's handled in NJ. We have a program here called ABBOT which funnels more money into the lower income school districts. The results: not great. It has been proven that pouring more and more money into schools doesn't always mean you get better results.

 

[Sai-kun]

ugh why'd i laugh lmao

 

[numble]

I would be more interested to see what kind of financial background those students at top colleges have. If the correlation can be boiled down to socioeconomic status then of course public school students from middle to low income families won't be going to a very expensive secondary school. I think there is a lot more that goes into admissions decisions than private vs. public primary education.

Of course it doesn't boil down to just private vs public schools, but if you have an indicator that private schools are over-represented at top colleges, your inclination is that private schools are just an illusion of better education versus public schools?

 

[Lonely1]

Of course it doesn't boil down to just private vs public schools, but if you have an indicator that private schools are over-represented at top colleges, your inclination is that private schools are just an illusion of better education versus public schools?

What makes a top college "top"?

 

[LegendofLex]

Impossible to feel bad about rich parents investing in their childen's future - that's a responsible use of wealth if I ever saw one. I'm more concerned with the causes of the wealth gap, not the (positive in this instance) effects. You can argue that educating the rich is only going to make them richer, but I'd never want to live in a world where families were encouraged to invest less in their kids.

I don't feel bad for the rich kids, nor do I think there's a problem with rich parents investing in their children. I do feel bad for not-rich kids whose parents don't have the opportunity to invest in their children and who thus aren't given the same fair shake as the rich kids. And I especially feel bad for the vicious cycle this creates where the poor have less opportunity to become not-poor than the rich have to remain rich.

 

[theechrisfox]

Of course it doesn't boil down to just private vs public schools, but if you have an indicator that private schools are over-represented at top colleges, your inclination is that private schools are just an illusion of better education versus public schools?

Yes, I would say parents who can afford $15k in tuition for their 5th grader are more likely to spend $80k on tuition for their college freshman. There is no way to grade the quality of instruction at different schools, but isn't that the point of putting an objective price tag on something?

 

[numble]

Yes, I would say parents who can afford $15k in tuition for their 5th grader are more likely to spend $80k on tuition for their college freshman. There is no way to grade the quality of instruction at different schools, but isn't that the point of putting an objective price tag on something?

The top schools are need blind these days with generous no-loan financial aid policies. Low income families do not make decisions on these schools based on ability to pay.

 

[Plywood]

As long as I get to be a mutant, bro.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Funniest part is about people's incomes not increasing since 1980s yet rich people's incomes have, with inflation, somewhere around 150%.

And the poor are welfare queens living large.

It is simple. Government issues currency, follow the currency and see where it lands, and they you will see who the system benefits the most.

 

[LegendofLex]

The top schools are need blind these days with generous no-loan financial aid policies. Low income families do not make decisions on these schools based on ability to pay.

No, instead these low income families make all their decisions based on ability to pay--many of which impact their kids' achievement and thus their potential to even be accepted into top schools in the first place. I don't think most of them set out to say "well, I'm not going to support my kid in school." I think most of them are stuck trying to meet other needs, such as struggling to put food on the table, care for old or sick relatives, find basic childcare, etc. and simply don't know what they need to do to help their kids do well in school in the first place.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I feel real bad for poor-mid rich parents who are well meaning but have no choice but to send their kids to a local public school and run a proverbial gauntlet.

I heard problem kids (behavioral disorders and so on) are notoriously high in number at poor public schools. Can't be good for the learning environment.

 

[numble]

No, instead these low income families make all their decisions based on ability to pay--many of which impact their kids' achievement and thus their potential to even be accepted into top schools in the first place. I don't think most of them set out to say "well, I'm not going to support my kid in school." I think most of them are stuck trying to meet other needs, either because they are struggling to put food on the table, care for sick relatives, find basic childcare, etc.

I don't know why you think I disagree with you, the poster I am talking to seems to believe that spending money on kids education is just an illusion of usefulness.

 

[LegendofLex]

I don't know why you think I disagree with you, the poster I am talking to seems to believe that spending money on kids education is just an illusion of usefulness.

I'm not (necessarily) disagreeing with you. It's just context that I think is missing if we're going to get into the idea that anyone can (actually or theoretically) go to any school because there's such a thing as gift aid.

 

[Parch]

More power to them

Correct. I'm not sure what people expect or what they want as a solution. I do not think more money should be poured into the public education system. It's not fair to those who decide to not have children.

There needs to be a basic education provided from public schools, plus other options for those who want it. And as mentioned, how much evidence is there that private schools are significantly better than public school? How seriously students apply themselves in school is a bigger factor IMO.

If parents want their kid to have a perceived better education, then they can pay for it, not society. The option for a private education will always be there.

 

[Persona7]

yeah, i saw that too and was like �� wow kinda gross!

kinda? Straight sociopath.

 

[numble]

I'm not (necessarily) disagreeing with you. It's just context that I think is missing if we're going to get into the idea that anyone can actually go to any school because there's such a thing as gift aid.

But his argument is that the only reason that low income individuals don't go to good colleges as much is because their parents don't want to pay for it. It all begins with the argument that private schools don't offer a better education than public schools.

 

[LegendofLex]

Correct. I'm not sure what people expect or what they want as a solution. I do not think more money should be poured into the public education system. It's not fair to those who decide to not have children.

It's absolutely fair. Just because you don't have children doesn't mean you don't benefit in any way whatsoever from the children that other people have--those children are likely to be your future doctor, fireman, accountant, local representative, etc.

But his argument is that the only reason that low income individuals don't go to good colleges as much is because their parents don't want to pay for it. It all begins with the argument that private schools don't offer a better education than public schools.

Sure. And you provide one good counterpoint: there's gift aid that makes it so they don't need to pay. But I'm providing another (messier) interpretation that doesn't even presume that the parents will be able to help the kid achieve at the level they'd need to to have a shot at those top schools in the first place!

 

[zero shift]

Make things similar to the Finnish model. Ban private education, make school funding federal, mix kids by income, performance, and ethnicity.

Actually this is how it's handled in NJ. We have a program here called ABBOT which funnels more money into the lower income school districts. The results: not great. It has been proven that pouring more and more money into schools doesn't always mean you get better results.

You have to mix the poor kids with the rich kids. That is the crux of the issue. Time and time again that is shown to be THE most effective thing to do.

 

[Masquerader]

I feel real bad for poor-mid rich parents who are well meaning but have no choice but to send their kids to a local public school and run a proverbial gauntlet.

I heard problem kids (behavioral disorders and so on) are notoriously high in number at poor public schools. Can't be good for the learning environment.

Trust me, it isn't. It's also awful when you need to take a shit, but the toilets are filthy, so you go to the staffroom toilets instead, and get shouted at for not wanting to catch fucking dysentery, or some shit like that.

Also, to be unable to sit down in a chair when you get into class is frankly horrid.

Then there are the teachers. Oh God, the teachers.

Half of them are OK! Fine enough.

But because they went to college and then university, and are, as teachers, now firmly middle-upper class (here in the UK), they have nothing but contempt for their pupils. Never once have I ever not been sneered at for being unable to afford the branded school uniform, and instead choosing to buy the label and sew it onto an uncomfortable jacket myself.

And they're old enough to remember corporeal punishment, and seem to yearn to use it again. You can just... Tell.

I am in College now, though. So there's that. Even when you are but a statistic and are loathed by every elitist teacher that there is, you can still make it, even with them belittling you and your efforts at every move. So there's that. Even when being held back, you can still prevail.

I'm able to actually get a seat in College, BTW.

 

[ezrarh]

Actually this is how it's handled in NJ. We have a program here called ABBOT which funnels more money into the lower income school districts. The results: not great. It has been proven that pouring more and more money into schools doesn't always mean you get better results.

Unfortunately, a lot of the things that happen outside the school will affect the kids' performances. This doesn't mean you shouldn't put money into lower income schools but you'd have to be wise about spending money on what's most effective.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

This generation needs a good World War or Vietnam to cull the heard.

We don't need one we already have a privatized prison industry and a war on drugs to keep those poors from bothering you ever again.

 

[bro1]

Never thought quoting bart simpson would be so controversial
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701234/quotes