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[Smiley90]

Here's a random, probably simple question I have that maybe chemistry-GAF can answer. How the hell do you make a 5 N calcium hydroxide solution? I'm running a fermentation soon attempting to verify some results from a recently published paper in which they maintained the pH of their growth medium using 5 N calcium hydroxide. Well, the thing is, calcium hydroxide is hardly soluble in water... something like 1.5 g/L. I know that calcium hydroxide and water makes something referred to as "lime water" but that's about as far as my knowledge of calcium hydroxide goes. Any thoughts? Do I just dump in the appropriate amount of calcium hydroxide with water, mix it well, then separate out the water from the remaining solid? It just seems... not right.

Any help is appreciated. Hopefully I'm not making myself look too stupid by asking this.

First thing when it comes to solubility I always do is check the pH. It might seem obvious since you're making a pH buffer, but what pH do they make their solution at? And at what temperature do they mix the ingredients?

Tons of stuff e.g. Heats up when mixing (looking at you methanol) which makes things not mix well/mix better.

 

[RumblingRosco]

First thing when it comes to solubility I always do is check the pH. It might seem obvious since you're making a pH buffer, but what pH do they make their solution at? And at what temperature do they mix the ingredients?

Tons of stuff e.g. Heats up when mixing (looking at you methanol) which makes things not mix well/mix better.

So, I forgot to come back to this, but I was using this mixture to maintain pH in a continuous fermentation I'm running. turns out, I just put the damn thing on a stir plate with a stir bar inside and the pump works just fine pushing the mixture through as long as I had a wide enough line to transfer it. Thanks for the input though!

In other news, I was recently awarded a 2-year grant (really, a fellowship) from the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) National Institute of Food and Agriculture's (NIFA) Agriculture and Food Research Initiative (AFRI) Fellowships Grant Program... also holy shit that is a mouthful. But, basically, it's a 2-year grant that covers full tuition, stipend, and about $2,500 for supplies and another $2,500 a year for travel costs to conferences. Really, I'm pretty damn excited for this as when I first started my Ph.D. research I received a 3-year fellowship from my university. My advisor is thrilled - I've become an essentially "free" student for him now for what will be 5 years with him only spending time (which of course is pretty hard to put a price on) and the cost of some lab supplies. And, for me, it means we've now got a hard deadline for me to graduate of August 2016 or so which would put me at an exact 5 years for my Ph.D. work.

I'm excited for all of this to say the least.

 

[Smiley90]

Congratz Sora! that's awesome.


My committee member FORGOT MY COMMITTEE MEETING. Well that was awkward. I even sent out two reminder emails. Which he both didn't see. and he forgot to put it in his calendar.

 

[Smiley90]

Anyone else here going to the ASCB conference in Philly this week?

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Nah maybe in the next year or so once. Anyways should we create a proper science OT that covers biology, chemistry, organic chemistry physics, etc? I was wondering since this 6 years old thread was recently bumped since someone had a question. Well back to studying for my molecular biochemistry final.

 

[Bedameister]

Nah maybe in the next year or so once. Anyways should we create a proper science OT that covers biology, chemistry, organic chemistry physics, etc? I was wondering since this 6 years old thread was recently bumped since someone had a question. Well back to studying for my molecular biochemistry final.

Jeah that would be cool.

 

[Entropy912]

So, I forgot to come back to this, but I was using this mixture to maintain pH in a continuous fermentation I'm running. turns out, I just put the damn thing on a stir plate with a stir bar inside and the pump works just fine pushing the mixture through as long as I had a wide enough line to transfer it. Thanks for the input though!

In other news, I was recently awarded a 2-year grant (really, a fellowship) from the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) National Institute of Food and Agriculture's (NIFA) Agriculture and Food Research Initiative (AFRI) Fellowships Grant Program... also holy shit that is a mouthful. But, basically, it's a 2-year grant that covers full tuition, stipend, and about $2,500 for supplies and another $2,500 a year for travel costs to conferences. Really, I'm pretty damn excited for this as when I first started my Ph.D. research I received a 3-year fellowship from my university. My advisor is thrilled - I've become an essentially "free" student for him now for what will be 5 years with him only spending time (which of course is pretty hard to put a price on) and the cost of some lab supplies. And, for me, it means we've now got a hard deadline for me to graduate of August 2016 or so which would put me at an exact 5 years for my Ph.D. work.

I'm excited for all of this to say the least.

Congratz on your fellowship Soka, don't spend it all in one place.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Congratz on your fellowship Soka, don't spend it all in one place.

Thanks!

Also, a general question. What software does everyone here use for graphing? My lab uses mainly SigmaPlot and some Excel, but I'm wondering if better options exist. SigmaPlot is powerful but seems needlessly obtuse.

 

[Dennis]

I use SigmaPlot. I like it a lot even though it could be more user-friendly. But at the end of the day what matters is that the results looks awesome.

I do always do a lot of post in Illustrator.

And 5 years is below average length for a US Ph.D. I guess.

I did mine in 3 years exact, suckers!

 

[Smiley90]

I use SigmaPlot. I like it a lot even though it could be more user-friendly. But at the end of the day what matters is that the results looks awesome.

I do always do a lot of post in Illustrator.

And 5 years is below average length for a US Ph.D. I guess.

I did mine in 3 years exact, suckers!

theoretical physics?

 

[theepicoftyler]

Thanks!

Also, a general question. What software does everyone here use for graphing? My lab uses mainly SigmaPlot and some Excel, but I'm wondering if better options exist. SigmaPlot is powerful but seems needlessly obtuse.

I've used Igor Pro in the past. I've never used SigmaPlot so I don't know how it compares, but Igor is pretty robust.

 

[jchap]

Latex makes the most beautiful documents and Matplotlib makes the most beautiful plots. Not terribly user friendly but once you get some good templates coded you can put others to shame. Also both are free.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

So what's new my fellow scientist? How are your research, etc coming along?

 

[nelchaar]

Holy shit there's a scientist OT on Gaf! I just got my PhD (Oncological sciences) in October and trying to go about finding a decent job without a post-doc. So far I got an ok clinical lab liaison position but it's not as fulfilling as I hoped.

On a side not, did you guys see that Bob Weinberg (famous cancer scientist. The discoverer of the first human oncogene) got 3 papers retracted this week? 2 from genes and dev, one from CELL!

 

[Horatorobor]

Would you consider math a science?

 

[Smiley90]

Holy shit there's a scientist OT on Gaf! I just got my PhD (Oncological sciences) in October and trying to go about finding a decent job without a post-doc. So far I got an ok clinical lab liaison position but it's not as fulfilling as I hoped.

On a side not, did you guys see that Bob Weinberg (famous cancer scientist. The discoverer of the first human oncogene) got 3 papers retracted this week? 2 from genes and dev, one from CELL!

in the same week? wtf? link?

why don't you wanna do a post-doc?

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Holy shit there's a scientist OT on Gaf! I just got my PhD (Oncological sciences) in October and trying to go about finding a decent job without a post-doc. So far I got an ok clinical lab liaison position but it's not as fulfilling as I hoped.

On a side not, did you guys see that Bob Weinberg (famous cancer scientist. The discoverer of the first human oncogene) got 3 papers retracted this week? 2 from genes and dev, one from CELL!

Link? I should read more science articles. Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[DrFurbs]

I actually use publisher for plots because of its really nice snapping and alignment tools.

/social scientist here

 

[swordfishtrombones]

Link? I should read more science articles. Does anyone have any recommendations?

http://retractionwatch.com/2015/03/19/two-more-retractions-appear-for-prominent-mit-cancer-researcher-robert-weinberg/

Regarding the generation of figures/plots: matlab and Illustrator to combine it and clean it up. Reading Tufte helped a lot to create better figures.

 

[Hypron]

I tend to use pgfplots for plotting 2D data because it integrates perfectly in Latex (and you can also use tikz commands to annotate the plot). It's time consuming but I find that it gives the best results visually.

 

[Alcoremortis]

So, my baymate just proved that eppendorf tubes are fermions.

ScienceGAF, what journal should he get this amazing result published in? (I was considering the Journal of Irreproducible Results, but I dunno)

 

[FO-totality]

So, my baymate just proved that eppendorf tubes are fermions.

ScienceGAF, what journal should he get this amazing result published in? (I was considering the Journal of Irreproducible Results, but I dunno)

Do some mechanical modeling of the physics of it all and submit it to Sigbovik next year.

 

[FO-totality]

Speaking of SIGBOVIK, the Association for Computational Heresy (ACH) had their annual meeting today and released their yearly proceedings so you can read all that sciency, nerdy, funny, complex math and computational humor. Or something. It's something at least.

http://sigbovik.org/2015/
http://sigbovik.org/2015/proceedings.pdf

The venerable Tom Murphy, VII, Ph.D. aka "Tom7", probably best known online for his SIGBOVIK 2013 paper "The First Level of Super Mario Bros. is Easy with Lexicographic Orderings and Time Travel...after that it gets a little tricky" (Paper here, first video on the program here), released a new paper (page 85 of this year) and video entitled "The Portmantout" where in which he uses computer programs to string together every word in the english language into one massive portmanteau. He even published the entire 'word' at the end of the paper. My god.

He also had another paper this year called "Red i removal with artificial retinal networks" that I haven't had a chance to read yet.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Sitting here at about midnight wrapping up a draft for a $10,000 USDA grant. Not due until Tuesday, but my university requires running grant proposals through their on-campus grant office a few business days ahead of time.

And man, I cannot tell you how overly complicated these grant offices are. I mean, seriously, the couple of forms I have to fill out look like they're in a foreign language. My adviser hates them too (which is why he's glad I'm in charge of this proposal). Is this a relatively common feeling across the globe, or am I just whining/is my university uniquely complicated?

The real life-saver in all of this is the accountant in my department. She's become my best friend this week.

 

[The Lamp]

Sitting here at about midnight wrapping up a draft for a $10,000 USDA grant. Not due until Tuesday, but my university requires running grant proposals through their on-campus grant office a few business days ahead of time.

And man, I cannot tell you how overly complicated these grant offices are. I mean, seriously, the couple of forms I have to fill out look like they're in a foreign language. My adviser hates them too (which is why he's glad I'm in charge of this proposal). Is this a relatively common feeling across the globe, or am I just whining/is my university uniquely complicated?

The real life-saver in all of this is the accountant in my department. She's become my best friend this week.

How does it work? Do you have to reach a certain # of $ each year in grants?

I was always bewildered about the details of the process, because my professors rake in literally millions of dollars in grants for themselves each year. In fact, when reporting their contributions to the university in their performance review, grants less than $3M are not reported because they're minor lolol

 

[RumblingRosco]

How does it work? Do you have to reach a certain # of $ each year in grants?

I was always bewildered about the details of the process, because my professors rake in literally millions of dollars in grants for themselves each year. In fact, when reporting their contributions to the university in their performance review, grants less than $3M are not reported because they're minor lolol

That last part is crazy to me. I'm at one of the top 10 engineering schools in the world. I don't put much stock in those rankings, but just trying to give you an idea that I'm at a relatively reputable school. Anyway, I can't imagine a world where a $2.5M grant is considered minor.

Y'all on some George Church-level funding where ever you're at Lamp.

Anyway, I'm just a grad student. There's certainly no requirement for grad students in my department to earn X amount of funding per year - in fact, I'd say less than 20% of grad students in my department ever serve as PIs on a grant. Probably lower than that. For me though, grant-writing is my favorite part of research. I've written 2 NSF proposals and 1 USDA proposal so far (received funding only from the USDA grant), but as I'm nearing graduation I can't really be bothered to apply for another multi-year grant, so this $10,000 one is just a 12-month project I am trying to pick-up from the USDA, just for fun. Helps to keep my grant-writing skills in practice I think too.

 

[The Lamp]

That last part is crazy to me. I'm at one of the top 10 engineering schools in the world. I don't put much stock in those rankings, but just trying to give you an idea that I'm at a relatively reputable school. Anyway, I can't imagine a world where a $2.5M grant is considered minor.

Y'all on some George Church-level funding where ever you're at Lamp.

Anyway, I'm just a grad student. There's certainly no requirement for grad students in my department to earn X amount of funding per year - in fact, I'd say less than 20% of grad students in my department ever serve as PIs on a grant. Probably lower than that. For me though, grant-writing is my favorite part of research. I've written 2 NSF proposals and 1 USDA proposal so far (received funding only from the USDA grant), but as I'm nearing graduation I can't really be bothered to apply for another multi-year grant, so this $10,000 one is just a 12-month project I am trying to pick-up from the USDA, just for fun. Helps to keep my grant-writing skills in practice I think too.

You know what lol, the number was probably $300,000 and I didn't remember correctly. That actually makes more sense lol, although I have had professors pull in grants at the level of millions. My department gets a crazy shit-ton of grants. My thermo prof from MIT gets grants from like DARPA and other crazy shit practically every year.

 

[RumblingRosco]

You know what lol, the number was probably $300,000 and I didn't remember correctly. That actually makes more sense lol, although I have had professors pull in grants at the level of millions. My department gets a crazy shit-ton of grants. My thermo prof from MIT gets grants from like DARPA and other crazy shit practically every year.

Ah yeah, that makes a bit more sense. Yeah, million+ grants aren't uncommon around here. We recently attempted to pull in a $30,000,000 DARPA grant - got down to being one of the last 4 teams, but alas, it wasn't in the cards. MIT though, yeah, it's on a whole other level. As I mentioned above, check out George Church's research group - just the number of post docs he has shows how well-funded he is (or, at least, how easily he attracts post-docs that are self-funded).

 

[RumblingRosco]

So I get to present my findings at a "USDA project directors (PDs) meeting" based on the first year of my research related to a USDA grant I received. The meeting is in about a week, so I've got most of my presentation ready at this point. It seems like the audience will be other PDs and then various USDA/government officials/scientists. Has anyone ever presented at a government meeting before? I have experience with oral presentations at conferences, but never at something government-related, and so I'm looking for any knowledge y'all may have.

I mean, my plan is just to prepare my presentation based on the guidelines they've given me, act/dress professionally, and not stress out. I feel like that's generally a good plan to follow.

 

[Smiley90]

Just handed in my Master's thesis, defending in 3 weeks

it's like someone just lifted a goddamn globe off my back, that was pure stress and panic the last few weeks

 

[opticalmace]

Just handed in my Master's thesis, defending in 3 weeks

it's like someone just lifted a goddamn globe off my back, that was pure stress and panic the last few weeks

Congrats, what was it on?

 

[Smiley90]

Congrats, what was it on?

"The discovery of several novel deflagellation genes and the identification of ADF1"

A ciliary stress-response involved in e.g. polycystic kidney disease we use green algae as a model organism for! I extended the pathway from 3 isolated and 2 identified genes to 8 isolated and 6 identified genes.

 

[opticalmace]

"The discovery of several novel deflagellation genes and the identification of ADF1"

A ciliary stress-response involved in e.g. polycystic kidney disease we use green algae as a model organism for! I extended the pathway from 3 isolated and 2 identified genes to 8 isolated and 6 identified genes.

Okay, now assume my background is in astronomy, not biology. Congrats, what was it on?

 

[Smiley90]

Okay, now assume my background is in astronomy, not biology. Congrats, what was it on?

"The discovery of several novel deflagellation genes and the identification of ADF1"

A ciliary stress-response involved in e.g. polycystic kidney disease we use green algae as a model organism for! I extended the pathway from 3 isolated and 2 identified genes to 8 isolated and 6 identified genes.

I mean... uh...

okay so you know how sperm (and other) cells have those little tails they use for swimming, right? Those are called cilia or flagella. Now when cells are exposed to stress (say, acid, temperature, etc), they want to protect themselves. Cilia are organelles that grow from the inside of the cell and protrude out, so they're a structural weak point in the cell. So to protect themselves, they cut off their tails and turtle up. Now, if the cell can't do that, that creates problems, as you can imagine. Cells might die/become sick/go figure. One of the things that can happen is that in your kidneys or lungs, they encounter toxic material. Think.... tobacco. or whatever. so to protect themselves, they need to get rid of their tails. Now, the problem is - what if they have a mutation and can't get rid of the tails! that causes things like polycystic kidney disease. google it for gross pictures. But how does the cell normally get rid of the tail? That's what I'm trying to study. So I've introduced mutations in the genome of the organism we use to study this process (algae? you know what algae are, right. green little floaty things.) and checked whether they can or can't shed their tails. Those that can't shed their tails I've tried to identify what's responsible. before my thesis, people only knew 2 genes/proteins involved. Now i've identified 4 more! so we have a much better idea of what's going on. Now someone (NOT ME) has to check what those proteins i've found might do in humans and if they are also involved in tail-shedding in humans. if so, we might be better able to understand what goes wrong when people get kidney disease and will be better able to help them.

Makes more sense now? I wish I could think of some astronomy metaphors but I really can't. lol

 

[opticalmace]

"The discovery of several novel deflagellation genes and the identification of ADF1"

A ciliary stress-response involved in e.g. polycystic kidney disease we use green algae as a model organism for! I extended the pathway from 3 isolated and 2 identified genes to 8 isolated and 6 identified genes.

I mean... uh...

okay so you know how sperm (and other) cells have those little tails they use for swimming, right? Those are called cilia or flagella. Now when cells are exposed to stress (say, acid, temperature, etc), they want to protect themselves. Cilia are organelles that grow from the inside of the cell and protrude out, so they're a structural weak point in the cell. So to protect themselves, they cut off their tails and turtle up. Now, if the cell can't do that, that creates problems, as you can imagine. Cells might die/become sick/go figure. One of the things that can happen is that in your kidneys or lungs, they encounter toxic material. Think.... tobacco. or whatever. so to protect themselves, they need to get rid of their tails. Now, the problem is - what if they have a mutation and can't get rid of the tails! that causes things like polycystic kidney disease. google it for gross pictures. But how does the cell normally get rid of the tail? That's what I'm trying to study. So I've introduced mutations in the genome of the organism we use to study this process (algae? you know what algae are, right. green little floaty things.) and checked whether they can or can't shed their tails. Those that can't shed their tails I've tried to identify what's responsible. before my thesis, people only knew 2 genes/proteins involved. Now i've identified 4 more! so we have a much better idea of what's going on. Now someone (NOT ME) has to check what those proteins i've found might do in humans and if they are also involved in tail-shedding in humans. if so, we might be better able to understand what goes wrong when people get kidney disease and will be better able to help them.

Makes more sense now? I wish I could think of some astronomy metaphors but I really can't. lol

Ha, that is awesome. Thanks for explaining it. You did well because I managed to follow. It'll be good practice for your defence, anyway.

Good luck!

 

[Smiley90]

Ha, that is awesome. Thanks for explaining it. You did well because I managed to follow. It'll be good practice for your defence, anyway.

Good luck!

Haha I have to do the same when explaining it to friends and family, so I have some practice lol

 

[Bedameister]

Just handed in my Master's thesis, defending in 3 weeks

it's like someone just lifted a goddamn globe off my back, that was pure stress and panic the last few weeks

Only the last few weeks? Man your Master's thesis sounds like vacation. But congrats.

Still got some month to go.. But I have to present my results so far on our seminar in a few days. Still want to do so much stuff until then.

 

[Smiley90]

arghhhhhhh

so the lab I volunteered&worked in for 2 years and then did 2 years of my MSc dropped me as first author because of the former-second author's "continued supervisiory role and leadership in pulling together the final manuscript" after most it was my work, my MSc thesis and I had to leave the lab in January because there was no funding to keep me on. And this was all after the submission was delayed for a year because my PI decided to run for political office instead of us working on the paper for submission before my leaving

so. fucking. mad.

Spoiler

I'm second-in-name co-first author still but fuck that shit

 

[Bedameister]

arghhhhhhh

so the lab I volunteered&worked in for 2 years and then did 2 years of my MSc dropped me as first author because of the former-second author's "continued supervisiory role and leadership in pulling together the final manuscript" after most it was my work, my MSc thesis and I had to leave the lab in January because there was no funding to keep me on. And this was all after the submission was delayed for a year because my PI decided to run for political office instead of us working on the paper for submission before my leaving

so. fucking. mad.

Spoiler

I'm second-in-name co-first author still but fuck that shit

Oh wow that sounds so fucked up. Really sorry to hear that.
Did you work there for 4 years and didn't get paid at all? That would be insane.


I started my PhD yesterday. It's a little bit hard to really get back into work because I really didn't do much since I wrote my master thesis and I don't have that much confidence in my new project. But my boss wants me to do it so I'll do it.
But feels good to finally get paid

 

[Smiley90]

Oh wow that sounds so fucked up. Really sorry to hear that.
Did you work there for 4 years and didn't get paid at all? That would be insane.


I started my PhD yesterday. It's a little bit hard to really get back into work because I really didn't do much since I wrote my master thesis and I don't have that much confidence in my new project. But my boss wants me to do it so I'll do it.
But feels good to finally get paid

nono payment isn't the issue, it's about the publication.

All combined it was ~1.5 year MSc, ~1.5 year full-time paid research assistant, ~1 year volunteering

started PhD
get paid

does not compute

 

[Dennis]

arghhhhhhh

so the lab I volunteered&worked in for 2 years and then did 2 years of my MSc dropped me as first author because of the former-second author's "continued supervisiory role and leadership in pulling together the final manuscript" after most it was my work, my MSc thesis and I had to leave the lab in January because there was no funding to keep me on. And this was all after the submission was delayed for a year because my PI decided to run for political office instead of us working on the paper for submission before my leaving

so. fucking. mad.

Spoiler

I'm second-in-name co-first author still but fuck that shit

Will it say "These authors contributed equally" after your names?

If so, then it is absolutely still a first-author publication for you and you can treat it as such.

 

[Smiley90]

Will it say "These authors contributed equally" after your names?

If then, it is absolutely still a first-author publication for you.

it will, and it'll have an asterisk

but my name will still come second, I'm not buying the whole "it's the same as if you were first!"

if it was the same why would they have changed it.

e.g. how would I even put that on a resume? with asterisk and add THESE AUTHORS CONTRIBUTED EQUALLY? that just seems odd

it still doesn't properly reflect what actually happened and that's what's bugging me the most. It's not like I rightfully get bumped down the list because someone ended up doing a lot more work afterwards.

 

[Dennis]

On your CV you can Bold your name in the Publication list and write "First author articles in bold".

Unless they are stupid they will know that it is a shared first authorship.

But hey I totally get that having you name first is preferable. But obviously I can't judge whether you or the other guy deserve it more.

 

[Reeks]

Jaded as fuck 5th year PhD student here. I study the development of the cortex in mouse models of autism. We're a two-photon lab and I do chronic in vivo imaging of neuronal structures ... I picked such a hard project - I want to go back in time to my first year and slap my overly ambitious self across the face #hindsight

it will, and it'll have an asterisk

but my name will still come second, I'm not buying the whole "it's the same as if you were first!"

if it was the same why would they have changed it.

e.g. how would I even put that on a resume? with asterisk and add THESE AUTHORS CONTRIBUTED EQUALLY? that just seems odd

it still doesn't properly reflect what actually happened and that's what's bugging me the most. It's not like I rightfully get bumped down the list because someone ended up doing a lot more work afterwards.

I think that should be fine. I'm about to publish with co-first authorship as well. It counts!

 

[Smiley90]

Jaded as fuck 5th year PhD student here. I study the development of the cortex in mouse models of autism. We're a two-photon lab and I do chronic in vivo imaging of neuronal structures ... I picked such a hard project - I want to go back in time to my first year and slap my overly ambitious self across the face #hindsight



I think that should be fine. I'm about to publish with co-first authorship as well. It counts!

wait

waaaait

holy shit

what lab are you in?

I started my job in a "two-photon in vivo neuronal imaging in the context of autism" lab 3 months ago. Our two labs MUST know each other.

 

[Dennis]

Can love blossom in the laboratory?

Stay tuned.

 

[Smiley90]

Can love blossom in the laboratory?

Stay tuned.

Well we don't study mice so I know I'm not his lab manager, but it can't be too far off!

 

[ugaboga232]

Jaded as fuck 5th year PhD student here. I study the development of the cortex in mouse models of autism. We're a two-photon lab and I do chronic in vivo imaging of neuronal structures ... I picked such a hard project - I want to go back in time to my first year and slap my overly ambitious self across the face #hindsight



I think that should be fine. I'm about to publish with co-first authorship as well. It counts!

Good luck, about to start my phd soon in a vaguely similar field of cortex 2 photon in vivo stuff.

Still chronic 2 photon in vivo modeling is atrocious, have you considered something like clarity to add some pretty pictures? It is an annoying technique but damn if the pictures aren't pretty (plus who doesn't like 50 gb images of cortex)

 

[RumblingRosco]

it will, and it'll have an asterisk

but my name will still come second, I'm not buying the whole "it's the same as if you were first!"

if it was the same why would they have changed it.

e.g. how would I even put that on a resume? with asterisk and add THESE AUTHORS CONTRIBUTED EQUALLY? that just seems odd

it still doesn't properly reflect what actually happened and that's what's bugging me the most. It's not like I rightfully get bumped down the list because someone ended up doing a lot more work afterwards.

Personally, I value co-first authors equally, but a lot of people seem to not believe in it. Also, in citation, it'll always be Author #1 et al., not Author #1 and Author #2 et al.

I'd fight back if possible. Hard to do though.

 

[Smiley90]

Personally, I value co-first authors equally, but a lot of people seem to not believe in it. Also, in citation, it'll always be Author #1 et al., not Author #1 and Author #2 et al.

I'd fight back if possible. Hard to do though.

Exactly! That's what I mean too. If it wasn't a big deal then why change it.

It's kiiind of hard to fight back when they're submitting on Friday and informed me yesterday. It wasn't much of an "invitation to discuss", more of a "we made up our mind and this is to inform you". I e-mailed back that I was very saddened by the choice and would have pushed much harder to submit while I was still in the lab instead of being okay with delaying submission. Not much i can do at this point.

It's also a) my first paper, b) I did literally most of the work, it's nowhere near equal. The e-mail "informing me" literally stated "person X's role in supervising/training a lot of people involved in the project" (true, she did train the people, but she didn't do any of the work herself - and she also wasn't team lead/supervisor directly, that was me, she only provided some input at lab meetings just like everyone else in our lab) "and her leadership in pulling together the final manuscript" (which I wrote 50% of myself and is based heavily on my thesis)

just frustrating because we delayed submission for a year so my PI could dabble in politics. then we had no funding to keep me on... sigh.