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[Jarate]

wat

The original game is honestly one of the most broken games on the SNES

but anyway, I assume he means magic spam, which invalidates a lot of the game since you can just get bosses stuck in loops.

I'm hoping that they possibly add in some of the missing features that were originally designed to be on the SNES CD release. There's a whole slew of cut content in the original game that i'd love to see.

 

[Deleted member 286591]

The original game is honestly one of the most broken games on the SNES

but anyway, I assume he means magic spam, which invalidates a lot of the game since you can just get bosses stuck in loops.

I'm hoping that they possibly add in some of the missing features that were originally designed to be on the SNES CD release. There's a whole slew of cut content in the original game that i'd love to see.

Yeah, magic was broken. And hit detections, even movements were brok... Fuck, game was indeed broken.

 

[Father_Brain]

They're seriously not allowing video recording of this at PAX?

 

[Alec]

I'm hoping that they possibly add in some of the missing features that were originally designed to be on the SNES CD release. There's a whole slew of cut content in the original game that i'd love to see.

The game was at its earliest stages of development when it was thought to be a CD game. It was when this and Chrono Trigger were still one game. Seeing as how we have never seen so much as a prototype screenshot from this era, I doubt it ever got past the concept art phase.

http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features/liners/seikendensetsubox.shtml

He talks about seeing screen mock ups from Toriyama, so that's probably as far as it got.

 

[Jarate]

The game was at its earliest stages of development when it was thought to be a CD game. It was when this and Chrono Trigger were still one game. Seeing as how we have never seen so much as a prototype screenshot from this era, I doubt it ever got past the concept art phase.

There used to be a giant gamefaqs thread from the early 2000's dealing with all the missing content. Glitches, useless doors that should lead to places, missing bosses. There was a lot of stuff that was cut

 

[Alec]

There used to be a giant gamefaqs thread from the early 2000's dealing with all the missing content. Glitches, useless doors that should lead to places, missing bosses. There was a lot of stuff that was cut

Can you find it? I looked but found nothing like what you describe. The most comprehensive list I found is here: https://tcrf.net/Secret_of_Mana_(SNES)

 

[Grampasso]

These guys look straight out of an 80s anime

In the original game the fantastic music heard during this scene could only heard again in a secret place if I remember well.

 

[Yu Narukami]

I found out a few days ago after 25 years that you are supposed to attack when the bar is at 100%. Wat?? I kept mashing as a kid.

 

[Skulldead]

The original has hilariously broken gameplay, though.

As much i really like secret of mana, this statement is 95% true.... This is a truly broken game overall.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The game was at its earliest stages of development when it was thought to be a CD game. It was when this and Chrono Trigger were still one game. Seeing as how we have never seen so much as a prototype screenshot from this era, I doubt it ever got past the concept art phase.

http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features/liners/seikendensetsubox.shtml

He talks about seeing screen mock ups from Toriyama, so that's probably as far as it got.

Indeed. People have this long-standing misconception that Secret of Mana was a CD game with lots more content at some point and that Square simply deleted a bunch of assets to make it fit into a cartridge. That wasn't the case. The original CD game was an action RPG called Chrono Trigger and it didn't really get past the planning stages on paper documents.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1259013
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1196519

The CD game was canceled but Square recycled parts of its ideas into three different games: a sequel to Final Fantasy Adventure, a second game called Chrono Trigger (which reuses the title of the CD game but is different), and Chrono Cross.

Gaia's Navel for example appears in both Secret of Mana and Chrono Cross (although to be precise it was originally an idea for the canceled Famicom Disk Game Seiken Densetsu: The Emergence of Excalibur).

Gaia's Navel in Seiken Densetsu: The Emergence of Excalibur:

Gaia's Navel in Secret of Mana:

Gaia's Navel in Chrono Cross:

 

[AgentOtaku]

Maybe it's the contrast of the photo but I think the game looks fucking great here

hell yeah it does

My hype is thru the f'ing roof!!!!

 

[Astrael]

I found out a few days ago after 25 years that you are supposed to attack when the bar is at 100%. Wat?? I kept mashing as a kid.

Yeah it always felt like it was an early attempt to mix the trendy (at the time) ATB timing with a real-time button response. You had to wait your turn to attack properly, basically. You can get away with mashing on the early rabbites but, I can't imagine how hard the game was if you kept going haha.

If they got the shopkeepers to dance in Adventures of Mana, it seems like a weird oversight to not at least re-use that animation in this game. Hope the omission is just because it's still in development :<

 

[Alec]

Indeed. People have this long-standing misconception that Secret of Mana was a CD game with lots more content at some point and that Square simply deleted a bunch of assets to make it fit into a cartridge. That wasn't the case. The original CD game was an action RPG called Chrono Trigger and it didn't really get past the planning stages on paper documents.

Love your retrospective threads. Thanks for the hard work.

 

[Syril]

There were hit detection issues, but part of it was also the weird design where if something was in hitstun, it would register exactly one additional hit and then take the damage immediately after it recovered.

Indeed. People have this long-standing misconception that Secret of Mana was a CD game with lots more content at some point and that Square simply deleted a bunch of assets to make it fit into a cartridge. That wasn't the case. The original CD game was an action RPG called Chrono Trigger and it didn't really get past the planning stages on paper documents.

It's funny because the final game has parts that feel like they were cut down for space but were likely cut down to meet deadlines.

 

[Begaria]

Some more offscreen footage of Secret of Mana from PAX - the longest gameplay video I've found so far. The person playing is a pretty diehard Secret of Mana fan, literally starting their youtube channel off with a Let's Play of the original.

https://youtu.be/goHqKktAN18

Includes the Mantis Ant fight!

 

[zeopower6]

I guess this explains the lack of footage but the word of mouth impressions seem very good!

Shopkeepers probably should dance. I hope someone brings that up.

 

[Nerrel]

Some more offscreen footage of Secret of Mana from PAX - the longest gameplay video I've found so far. The person playing is a pretty diehard Secret of Mana fan, literally starting their youtube channel off with a Let's Play of the original.

https://youtu.be/goHqKktAN18

Includes the Mantis Ant fight!

Music sounds identical to the original.... ? Definitely seems like midi. The game looks pretty good here at least, but the animations during the cutscene are pretty stiff. They basically kept all the 16-bit jankiness of movement and it looks so much worse in a full 3D game. Otherwise it looks much better overall in motion than the screenshots have been suggesting. Hopefully the water palace has some nice effects so it also doesn't look as shitty in motion.

Voice acting is awful. It's going to be Japanese voices or nothing, if that's an option.

 

[preta]

Music sounds identical to the original.... ? Definitely seems like midi. The game looks pretty good here at least, but the animations during the cutscene are pretty stiff. They basically kept all the 16-bit jankiness of movement and it looks so much worse in a full 3D game. Otherwise it looks much better overall in motion than the screenshots have been suggesting. Hopefully the water palace has some nice effects so it also doesn't look as shitty in motion.

Voice acting is awful. It's going to be Japanese voices or nothing, if that's an option.

Presumably there's a soundtrack toggle, like in Adventures of Mana, or the newly arranged soundtrack is still in production, or both. It was definitely announced to have a fully arranged soundtrack.

Where are you hearing any voice acting in that video?

 

[lwilliams3]

Music sounds identical to the original.... ? Definitely seems like midi. The game looks pretty good here at least, but the animations during the cutscene are pretty stiff. They basically kept all the 16-bit jankiness of movement and it looks so much worse in a full 3D game. Otherwise it looks much better overall in motion than the screenshots have been suggesting. Hopefully the water palace has some nice effects so it also doesn't look as shitty in motion.

Voice acting is awful. It's going to be Japanese voices or nothing, if that's an option.

Yeah, I definitely don't like that they didn't reimagined the animation for the game to properly used the 3D models. 3D aside (in which I still prefer the original sprite and background work compared to what I have seen), it seems like it is too much like the original for it to be interesting IMO.

I hope that they at least redo the music. Maybe seeing the remade DQ7 and FFIII raised my expectations to what should be changed.

 

[DonMigs85]

If the script hasn't been augmented much I dunno if it's worth it either. I remember Woolsey had to cut the dialog down a lot due to space

 

[zeopower6]

Music sounds identical to the original.... ? Definitely seems like midi. The game looks pretty good here at least, but the animations during the cutscene are pretty stiff. They basically kept all the 16-bit jankiness of movement and it looks so much worse in a full 3D game. Otherwise it looks much better overall in motion than the screenshots have been suggesting. Hopefully the water palace has some nice effects so it also doesn't look as shitty in motion.

Voice acting is awful. It's going to be Japanese voices or nothing, if that's an option.

Part of the initial announcements were:
fully rearranged soundtrack and Japanese voice/subs for the English version.

To add to that, the game will have language options which will allow players to experience the game using Japanese voices and/or subtitles.
A NEWLY ARRANGED SOUNDTRACK: We're excited for you to hear a beautiful, newly arranged soundtrack that pays tribute to the original.

 

[jb1234]

Where are you hearing any voice acting in that video?

You can just *barely* hear Randi talk when announcing his surprise there's a rabbite.

 

[preta]

You can just *barely* hear Randi talk when announcing his surprise there's a rabbite.

Ah, yeah, I hear it now.

 

[Psxphile]

At least the characters and enemies aren't stuck only attacking in the four cardinal directions. Seeing that Rabite try to tackle diagonally blew my mind. I find that to be a significant change, enemies were a lot easier to dodge when you knew the extent to which their basic attacks could conceivably reach.

 

[caffeware]

Some more offscreen footage of Secret of Mana from PAX - the longest gameplay video I've found so far. The person playing is a pretty diehard Secret of Mana fan, literally starting their youtube channel off with a Let's Play of the original.

https://youtu.be/goHqKktAN18

Includes the Mantis Ant fight!

I'm so getting this.

 

[Darg]

The original game is honestly one of the most broken games on the SNES

but anyway, I assume he means magic spam, which invalidates a lot of the game since you can just get bosses stuck in loops.

I'm hoping that they possibly add in some of the missing features that were originally designed to be on the SNES CD release. There's a whole slew of cut content in the original game that i'd love to see.

Yup, they have an opportunity to fix either most or all of this stuff now. Would be worth getting if they manage to fix them just for the potentially better 3-player action alone if the fixes/changes would come to pass.

Bonus points if they manage to make magic somewhat less turn-based esque in that there is not much of any way to avoid it, to actually being avoidable at all times even if difficult to do so. It would add and enchance the action-zeldaish-free movement aspect of the game. Doubt they will change it but we'll see.

 

[zeopower6]

Yup, they have an opportunity to fix either most or all of this stuff now. Would be worth getting if they manage to fix them just for the potentially better 3-player action alone if the fixes/changes would come to pass.

Bonus points if they manage to make magic somewhat less turn-based esque in that there is not much of any way to avoid it, to actually being avoidable at all times even if difficult to do so. It would add and enchance the action-zeldaish-free movement aspect of the game. Doubt they will change it but we'll see.

Well, at this point the game is probably in cleanup stages since there are about 5 months left to release. Hopefully they have a lot of press interviews at TGS that ask about progress and what they will be doing in the time before February.

 

[LiQuid!]

Some more offscreen footage of Secret of Mana from PAX - the longest gameplay video I've found so far. The person playing is a pretty diehard Secret of Mana fan, literally starting their youtube channel off with a Let's Play of the original.

https://youtu.be/goHqKktAN18

Includes the Mantis Ant fight!

Not sure if the player is bad or if the Mantis is still cheap as f with unavoidable attacks, haha

 

[DonMigs85]

I wonder how the bosses that used balls for necks and limbs are gonna look and animate now.

 

[Claude Augario]

I wonder how the bosses that used balls for necks and limbs are gonna look and animate now.

Gonna need a 3D version of this monstrosity.

 

[Darg]

Well, at this point the game is probably in cleanup stages since there are about 5 months left to release. Hopefully they have a lot of press interviews at TGS that ask about progress and what they will be doing in the time before February.

Yeah, for sure.

Not sure if the player is bad or if the Mantis is still cheap as f with unavoidable attacks, haha

Most of it looked avoidable, the only question mark in there is that breath attack as it looked fishy from where the player was standing.

I'm not sure if they removed some attacks from the Mantis or not so i can't really tell if thats the case since it didn't perform a few moves in that vid that were unavoidable in the original.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

I've heard about Secret of Mana for about as long as I can remember.

Kinda want to get into it, but I'm wondering if it'll be better to wait for the Remake.

 

[SkylineRKR]

As much i really like secret of mana, this statement is 95% true.... This is a truly broken game overall.

Yeah I remember getting stun locked against a wall for the entirety of my healthbar.

 

[kubricks]

Just watched the gameplay video, day fucking 1 for me! ;D

 

[Loudninja]

Yeah looking really good to me cant wait.

 

[LiQuid!]

Gonna need a 3D version of this monstrosity.

 

[120v]

Yeah, for sure.



Most of it looked avoidable, the only question mark in there is that breath attack as it looked fishy from where the player was standing.

I'm not sure if they removed some attacks from the Mantis or not so i can't really tell if thats the case since it didn't perform a few moves in that vid that were unavoidable in the original.

iirc most attacks in SoM are unavoidable unless you're way out of range. i don't think i've ever avoided that breath attack

battle system is basically ATB without turn base, and you can move around obviously. as opposed to something like zelda or Ys

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Love your retrospective threads. Thanks for the hard work.

Thanks!

Some more offscreen footage of Secret of Mana from PAX - the longest gameplay video I've found so far. The person playing is a pretty diehard Secret of Mana fan, literally starting their youtube channel off with a Let's Play of the original.

https://youtu.be/goHqKktAN18

Includes the Mantis Ant fight!

Wtf lol

 

[CTLance]

I can't NOT buy a Secret of Mana rerelease. However: No merchant dance, no buy.

I'm only half joking. OK, three-quarters. But still. There are limits. Like a lack of dancing merchants. This is integral to the Secret of Mana experience. If they leave that out, I will spend the entirety of the game looking for other omissions and be unable to enjoy the game. They need to hit that balance between cutesy whimsical stuff and exploding skeleton death animations (or floating porn books).

 

[Darg]

iirc most attacks in SoM are unavoidable unless you're way out of range. i don't think i've ever avoided that breath attack

battle system is basically ATB without turn base, and you can move around obviously. as opposed to something like zelda or Ys

I was thinking more about the mantis fight, however you're right for the most part.

Magic is mostly the one thats fully unavoidable full stop. Non-magic based moves especially projectiles of certain enemies (the bee for example) are avoidable even without moving far out of range, they were doable albeit some of the attacks of certain enemies and bosses was very sketchy/impossible. You had to get out of the way right before it attacked and depending on how far you made it to the side or back.

It's basically a hybrid of sorts, it gives you some leeway to avoid them (possible) while not giving you any room to dodge certain other kinds of attacks. This can include some non-magic based ones. It's unrefined is all i can say about it....which is why i am hoping they could refine it and fix a few other flaws, they had/have the chance to make it into what i feel it could of been and probably what should of been and personally it would have been not only a better single player experience but especially the multi-play portion would get a nice boost.

That breath attack in the remake seems like it is more of the same which is a shame if that is the case but i need to seem more of the remake in action. I can only imagine the fights that are purely magic-based unless they change things up for the remake.

 

[jonno394]

I wish Square Enix gave this sort of attention to gems from SNES era Enix like Illusion of Time and Terranigma. This artstyle and gameplay engine would seemingly fit both of those titles. Im unsure who even owns the rights to those games though :/

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I wish Square Enix gave this sort of attention to gems from SNES era Enix like Illusion of Time and Terranigma. This artstyle and gameplay engine would seemingly fit both of those titles. Im unsure who even owns the rights to those games though :/

It's probably only a matter of time. These kinds of remakes of old classics is a new strategy by the new SE president who only came into the picture in 2013 after Yoichi Wada left, and Secret of Mana sold 3 times more copies than Illusion of Time so obviously it has priority.

 

[Alec]

I watched that remake footage and was disappointed they didn't try to see if cheesing the Mantis Ant still works.

https://youtu.be/X4CwB6hSNQI

Also surprised how difficult it was for me to find on YT. Apparently not many people know about this.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

It's probably only a matter of time. These kinds of remakes of old classics is a new strategy by the new SE president who only came into the picture in 2013 after Yoichi Wada left, and Secret of Mana sold 3 times more copies than Illusion of Time so obviously it has priority.

Can the world ends with you be considered a classic? Plz square

 

[Loudninja]

It's probably only a matter of time. These kinds of remakes of old classics is a new strategy by the new SE president who only came into the picture in 2013 after Yoichi Wada left, and Secret of Mana sold 3 times more copies than Illusion of Time so obviously it has priority.

Secret of Evermore please.

 

[zeopower6]

I watched that remake footage and was disappointed they didn't try to see if cheesing the Mantis Ant still works.

https://youtu.be/X4CwB6hSNQI

Also surprised how difficult it was for me to find on YT. Apparently not many people know about this.

I am sure a few people did but no one filmed it. They seem to not want this on social media.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Is this going to be digital only? Or will it get a physical release?

 

[Professor Beef]

I watched that remake footage and was disappointed they didn't try to see if cheesing the Mantis Ant still works.

https://youtu.be/X4CwB6hSNQI

Also surprised how difficult it was for me to find on YT. Apparently not many people know about this.

holy shit

 

[Lindsay]

battle system is basically ATB without turn base, and you can move around obviously.

I wonder why they didn't go with this system for Chrono Trigger? That games battles and attacks had a good deal of emphasis on positioning, sans a way to reliably position your characters.

 

[Widge]

Some more offscreen footage of Secret of Mana from PAX - the longest gameplay video I've found so far. The person playing is a pretty diehard Secret of Mana fan, literally starting their youtube channel off with a Let's Play of the original.

https://youtu.be/goHqKktAN18

Includes the Mantis Ant fight!

Liking what I see here.

Also, as she replies in the comments "what's NeoGAF?"