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[Mumei]

I have seen a lot of arguments about whether or not this stuff works, and if it does, whether or not it is effective for dating relationships, and lastly whether or not it is ethical, but not so much about what it is we're talking about. So to move things in that direction, when I have read about the PUA community, this is what I have come across (and this website, though not this article, was linked to me by the friend I mentioned in the earlier discussion in Dating Age which this current topic stemmed from):

An often unremarked (partly because it goes against the reigning feminist narrative) structural unfairness between the sexes is the amount of effort the average man has to put into dating and relationships to keep them going, compared to the feeble efforts women usually expend on dating momentum and relationship management. The fact is that men (without game) *do* have to commit more energy to courtship and relationships because young, fertile women are the sex in higher demand. Women have to do all of not messing up their looks. (The effort to apply make-up and buy stylish, sexy clothes is nothing compared to the psychological, provisioning and logistical efforts men bring to the table.)

But as we here at the Chateau are fond of saying: life is unfair. Get used to it. Double standards exist and aren’t going anywhere because many of them are emergent properties of fixed, innate sex-based characteristics. Men have no more moral basis to bitch about dating energy expenditure than do women about slut shaming.

But thanks to the wonders of game, men can limit their relationship energy requirements while maximizing the impact each unit of spent energy has on women’s interest levels. In layman’s terms, men can easily spice up relationships (and dates) with almost no effort by employing the drive-by tease. Examples:

- Flush the toilet when she’s in the shower.
- Snap wet towel at her butt. (Should just barely cross line of genuine pain.)
- “Happy Valentine’s Day!” [give her a wrapped box of condoms]
- Put a “pinch my butt” post-it note on her back as she’s heading out for work.
- Slip her car into neutral when she’s driving. (Note: not recommended on women with exceptionally bad driving skills.)
- Turn the light off or unplug her dryer when she’s doing her hair.
- Pretend to throw her cat out the window. (A full throwing motion accompanied by frantic mewing will boost dramatic effect.)
- Never miss a chance to turn a serious question into a glib answer.
- Pretend to accidentally cut off your finger in the kitchen. (Use gobs of ketchup.)
- Replace her cosmetics with crayons.
- Put her panties on her cat (Don’t put them on the dog if the dog is yours. There are some lines not meant to be crossed.)
- Draw smiley faces or penises on her tampons.
- Paint a picture of her. With great fanfare, unveil a stick figure drawing.
- Pull weeds from the yard. Put them in a vase with a sincere love note attached. (Act offended if she doesn’t swoon for your weeds. Keep up the pretense for weeks.)
- Place a giant stuffed animal or clown doll in bed, facing her. When she wakes up, she’ll freak.
- Walk around casually at home with your dick hanging out of your jeans crotch. Call her a perv for noticing.
- Turn her shirts inside out.
- Put a Baby Ruth in her shoe. “Omg, I think the cat pooped in your shoe.”
- Dutch oven. Shower oven. Car oven.
- Honk her tits. Make loud honking noise. Bonus points if you use an air horn.

The drive-by tease is, typically, the non-verbal equivalent of the cocky/funny neg. More elaborate forms qualify as pranks. The DBT subliminally asserts male dominance as well as creativity, both of which are catnip to women. Dominance assertion is telegraphed in any act where the subtext is “I don’t care if you’re offended by this.” Girls like men who don’t walk on eggshells around them. But why?, you ask. Well, because men like that are interpreted by women to have options, that is, a take it or leave it attitude toward women. And a man who can walk away without much fuss is a desirable man. That doesn’t sound very romantic, but in practice when you act like this type of man your life will feel romantic as you are showered with women’s loving romantic love bombs.​

This, of course, is one of the mild ones with relatively little overt misogyny. And needless to say, this does not sound like the most immature, trite, evolutionary psychology nonsense driven pablum. Not at all.

Anyone else have "game" tips they would like to share?

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I've read both of those books. Manipulated man is interesting. Gotta say, much of the feminist stuff I've seen is far more vile (*cough*SCUM MANIFESTO*cough*). There are many valid questions about man's role in society, and about the usual dogma that women are always the oppressed gender.

I'm not really here to have some relative vile-ness debate, because I know nothing of cum manifesto, but Manipulated Man is definitely vile.

To the point where I'd never personally call it "interesting." You can discuss societies roles without repeatedly saying females lack intelligence. The entire book is an endless bash of women.

The book does touch on some interesting topics, almost like PUA material in that way, but it's so laced with misogyny I can't take anyone seriously who expresses anything but disgust for the book.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I'm not really here to have some relative vile-ness debate, because I know nothing of cum manifesto, but Manipulated Man is definitely vile.

To the point where I'd never personally call it "interesting." You can discuss societies roles without repeatedly saying females lack intelligence. The entire book is an endless bash of women.

The book does touch on some interesting topics, almost like PUA material in that way, but it's so laced with misogyny I can't take anyone seriously who expresses anything but disgust for the book.

hehe

 

[Vermillion]

To much hostility in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU8PhsJU4BA&t=1m09s

 

[Vermillion]

I have seen a lot of arguments about whether or not this stuff works, and if it does, whether or not it is effective for dating relationships, and lastly whether or not it is ethical, but not so much about what it is we're talking about. So to move things in that direction, when I have read about the PUA community, this is what I have come across (and this website, though not this article, was linked to me by the friend I mentioned in the earlier discussion in Dating Age which this current topic stemmed from):

An often unremarked (partly because it goes against the reigning feminist narrative) structural unfairness between the sexes is the amount of effort the average man has to put into dating and relationships to keep them going, compared to the feeble efforts women usually expend on dating momentum and relationship management. The fact is that men (without game) *do* have to commit more energy to courtship and relationships because young, fertile women are the sex in higher demand. Women have to do all of not messing up their looks. (The effort to apply make-up and buy stylish, sexy clothes is nothing compared to the psychological, provisioning and logistical efforts men bring to the table.)

But as we here at the Chateau are fond of saying: life is unfair. Get used to it. Double standards exist and aren’t going anywhere because many of them are emergent properties of fixed, innate sex-based characteristics. Men have no more moral basis to bitch about dating energy expenditure than do women about slut shaming.

But thanks to the wonders of game, men can limit their relationship energy requirements while maximizing the impact each unit of spent energy has on women’s interest levels. In layman’s terms, men can easily spice up relationships (and dates) with almost no effort by employing the drive-by tease. Examples:

- Flush the toilet when she’s in the shower.
- Snap wet towel at her butt. (Should just barely cross line of genuine pain.)
- “Happy Valentine’s Day!” [give her a wrapped box of condoms]
- Put a “pinch my butt” post-it note on her back as she’s heading out for work.
- Slip her car into neutral when she’s driving. (Note: not recommended on women with exceptionally bad driving skills.)
- Turn the light off or unplug her dryer when she’s doing her hair.
- Pretend to throw her cat out the window. (A full throwing motion accompanied by frantic mewing will boost dramatic effect.)
- Never miss a chance to turn a serious question into a glib answer.
- Pretend to accidentally cut off your finger in the kitchen. (Use gobs of ketchup.)
- Replace her cosmetics with crayons.
- Put her panties on her cat (Don’t put them on the dog if the dog is yours. There are some lines not meant to be crossed.)
- Draw smiley faces or penises on her tampons.
- Paint a picture of her. With great fanfare, unveil a stick figure drawing.
- Pull weeds from the yard. Put them in a vase with a sincere love note attached. (Act offended if she doesn’t swoon for your weeds. Keep up the pretense for weeks.)
- Place a giant stuffed animal or clown doll in bed, facing her. When she wakes up, she’ll freak.
- Walk around casually at home with your dick hanging out of your jeans crotch. Call her a perv for noticing.
- Turn her shirts inside out.
- Put a Baby Ruth in her shoe. “Omg, I think the cat pooped in your shoe.”
- Dutch oven. Shower oven. Car oven.
- Honk her tits. Make loud honking noise. Bonus points if you use an air horn.

The drive-by tease is, typically, the non-verbal equivalent of the cocky/funny neg. More elaborate forms qualify as pranks. The DBT subliminally asserts male dominance as well as creativity, both of which are catnip to women. Dominance assertion is telegraphed in any act where the subtext is “I don’t care if you’re offended by this.” Girls like men who don’t walk on eggshells around them. But why?, you ask. Well, because men like that are interpreted by women to have options, that is, a take it or leave it attitude toward women. And a man who can walk away without much fuss is a desirable man. That doesn’t sound very romantic, but in practice when you act like this type of man your life will feel romantic as you are showered with women’s loving romantic love bombs.​

This, of course, is one of the mild ones with relatively little overt misogyny. And needless to say, this does not sound like the most immature, trite, evolutionary psychology nonsense driven pablum. Not at all.

Anyone else have "game" tips they would like to share?

Lmao, this all sounds like just being a dick for the hell of it.

I can imagine this on a sitcom.

 

[Unicorn]

Y'all can use this PUA stuff but at some point you are going to have to act like a normal person. At that point the female will probably realize that your real self is not nearly the same as the facade you put up to meet them.

Better to find someone who like the real you not the you acting. If the real you sucks it's probably better in general to try and better yourself. Seems like a more reasonable long term solution as opposed to a bandage.

This. I hung around a group of PUA types for a brief spurt. The inevitable truth is that they all wind up alone, with a lot of notch marks on their bed posts. They are still unhappy, have little self worth, and are alone.

 

[Vermillion]

This. I hung around a group of PUA types for a brief spurt. The inevitable truth is that they all wind up alone, with a lot of notch marks on their bed posts. They are still unhappy, have little self worth, and are alone.

Seems to me like it works if you just want to get laid.
Or want to become Barney Stinson*.

If you want a serious relationship - well, for that, you'd need someone who knows you. Eventually, sex becomes... different.

*Speaking of whom: "I love my life, but I'm not sure that I like that I love my life.**
**Something like that, I'm paraphrasing.

But some people enjoy it, and if so, good for them.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

hehe

LOL, one of the better typos in history.

 

[Uncompromisable]

This. I hung around a group of PUA types for a brief spurt. The inevitable truth is that they all wind up alone, with a lot of notch marks on their bed posts. They are still unhappy, have little self worth, and are alone.

Hi.

I was 5 years in the PUA community, now i have a girlfriend who I live with.

 

[Az987]

Seduction-age |OT| The only way to win is to play the game

I propose this GIF to be included in the OP

I forgot I had this on my computer. Put it in the OP too.

 

[Ultima_5]

- Flush the toilet when she’s in the shower.
- Snap wet towel at her butt. (Should just barely cross line of genuine pain.)
- “Happy Valentine’s Day!” [give her a wrapped box of condoms]
- Put a “pinch my butt” post-it note on her back as she’s heading out for work.
- Slip her car into neutral when she’s driving. (Note: not recommended on women with exceptionally bad driving skills.)
- Turn the light off or unplug her dryer when she’s doing her hair.
- Pretend to throw her cat out the window. (A full throwing motion accompanied by frantic mewing will boost dramatic effect.)
- Never miss a chance to turn a serious question into a glib answer.
- Pretend to accidentally cut off your finger in the kitchen. (Use gobs of ketchup.)
- Replace her cosmetics with crayons.
- Put her panties on her cat (Don’t put them on the dog if the dog is yours. There are some lines not meant to be crossed.)
- Draw smiley faces or penises on her tampons.
- Paint a picture of her. With great fanfare, unveil a stick figure drawing.
- Pull weeds from the yard. Put them in a vase with a sincere love note attached. (Act offended if she doesn’t swoon for your weeds. Keep up the pretense for weeks.)
- Place a giant stuffed animal or clown doll in bed, facing her. When she wakes up, she’ll freak.
- Walk around casually at home with your dick hanging out of your jeans crotch. Call her a perv for noticing.
- Turn her shirts inside out.
- Put a Baby Ruth in her shoe. “Omg, I think the cat pooped in your shoe.”
- Dutch oven. Shower oven. Car oven.
- Honk her tits. Make loud honking noise. Bonus points if you use an air horn.

That reads like an attempted cracked article

 

[Unicorn]

Hi.

I was 5 years in the PUA community, now i have a girlfriend who I live with.

Not to belittle you, but how long have you been together and how long have you been living together?

 

[Uncompromisable]

Not to belittle you, but how long have you been together and how long have you been living together?

been together for 2, living together for 1.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Hi.

I was 5 years in the PUA community, now i have a girlfriend who I live with.

So even with all the PUA "skills" it took you 5 years to get a girlfriend?

 

[Snakeyes]

Persona reference.

US. GAMERS.

"Hey, let's just go somewhere and spend time doing XOXO "

 

[Vermillion]

So even with all the PUA "skills" it took you 5 years to get a girlfriend?

No disrespect, but that's hardly some way to discredit it. People who don't use it take years to find appropriate mates as well.

 

[cashman]

I have seen a lot of arguments about whether or not this stuff works, and if it does, whether or not it is effective for dating relationships, and lastly whether or not it is ethical, but not so much about what it is we're talking about. So to move things in that direction, when I have read about the PUA community, this is what I have come across (and this website, though not this article, was linked to me by the friend I mentioned in the earlier discussion in Dating Age which this current topic stemmed from):

An often unremarked (partly because it goes against the reigning feminist narrative) structural unfairness between the sexes is the amount of effort the average man has to put into dating and relationships to keep them going, compared to the feeble efforts women usually expend on dating momentum and relationship management. The fact is that men (without game) *do* have to commit more energy to courtship and relationships because young, fertile women are the sex in higher demand. Women have to do all of not messing up their looks. (The effort to apply make-up and buy stylish, sexy clothes is nothing compared to the psychological, provisioning and logistical efforts men bring to the table.)

But as we here at the Chateau are fond of saying: life is unfair. Get used to it. Double standards exist and aren’t going anywhere because many of them are emergent properties of fixed, innate sex-based characteristics. Men have no more moral basis to bitch about dating energy expenditure than do women about slut shaming.

But thanks to the wonders of game, men can limit their relationship energy requirements while maximizing the impact each unit of spent energy has on women’s interest levels. In layman’s terms, men can easily spice up relationships (and dates) with almost no effort by employing the drive-by tease. Examples:

- Flush the toilet when she’s in the shower.
- Snap wet towel at her butt. (Should just barely cross line of genuine pain.)
- “Happy Valentine’s Day!” [give her a wrapped box of condoms]
- Put a “pinch my butt” post-it note on her back as she’s heading out for work.
- Slip her car into neutral when she’s driving. (Note: not recommended on women with exceptionally bad driving skills.)
- Turn the light off or unplug her dryer when she’s doing her hair.
- Pretend to throw her cat out the window. (A full throwing motion accompanied by frantic mewing will boost dramatic effect.)
- Never miss a chance to turn a serious question into a glib answer.
- Pretend to accidentally cut off your finger in the kitchen. (Use gobs of ketchup.)
- Replace her cosmetics with crayons.
- Put her panties on her cat (Don’t put them on the dog if the dog is yours. There are some lines not meant to be crossed.)
- Draw smiley faces or penises on her tampons.
- Paint a picture of her. With great fanfare, unveil a stick figure drawing.
- Pull weeds from the yard. Put them in a vase with a sincere love note attached. (Act offended if she doesn’t swoon for your weeds. Keep up the pretense for weeks.)
- Place a giant stuffed animal or clown doll in bed, facing her. When she wakes up, she’ll freak.
- Walk around casually at home with your dick hanging out of your jeans crotch. Call her a perv for noticing.
- Turn her shirts inside out.
- Put a Baby Ruth in her shoe. “Omg, I think the cat pooped in your shoe.”
- Dutch oven. Shower oven. Car oven.
- Honk her tits. Make loud honking noise. Bonus points if you use an air horn.

The drive-by tease is, typically, the non-verbal equivalent of the cocky/funny neg. More elaborate forms qualify as pranks. The DBT subliminally asserts male dominance as well as creativity, both of which are catnip to women. Dominance assertion is telegraphed in any act where the subtext is “I don’t care if you’re offended by this.” Girls like men who don’t walk on eggshells around them. But why?, you ask. Well, because men like that are interpreted by women to have options, that is, a take it or leave it attitude toward women. And a man who can walk away without much fuss is a desirable man. That doesn’t sound very romantic, but in practice when you act like this type of man your life will feel romantic as you are showered with women’s loving romantic love bombs.​

This, of course, is one of the mild ones with relatively little overt misogyny. And needless to say, this does not sound like the most immature, trite, evolutionary psychology nonsense driven pablum. Not at all.

Anyone else have "game" tips they would like to share?

These are all awful pranks

 

[Nerds with Guns]

So even with all the PUA "skills" it took you 5 years to get a girlfriend?

What type of fuck shit measuring stick is this? This is what has dudes fucked up in the first place. They think they have to have a girlfriend in order to be “complete” and “happy”. So they start to stress and worry over something that isn't even a big deal. Not everyone wants a girlfriend and sure as hell not everyone in pickup wants a girlfriend.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I forgot I had this on my computer. Put it in the OP too.

Sure, why not.

 

[low-G]

The more you BELIEVE a girl enjoys whatever you do or say, even if she acts taken aback, offended, whatever the better your chances of successful seduction.

Well, maybe this is only true if you're coming from a more timid or 'beta', as it were, place. But it has worked amazingly for me.

I've noticed a bunch of small breakthroughs in my personal life in this way, never shying away from whatever physical contact I want (that is stuff like never doing hover hands, hands on the waist even if you have a boyfriend), and there is a way to speak down without being outright demeaning or at all negative (she does something you like, say 'good girl').


There's a whole other set of guys (who probably are reading a bodybuilding forum or car tuning forum instead of NeoGAF, but there are probably a few here too) that have an issue where they're trying to employ PUA or otherwise trying to act 'alpha' but it isn't genuine. They're imitating what they believe is the way to act in control.

In the end, all these actions are just basic confidence. If you feel good about yourself it becomes simple to make some joke, she acts offended (but you know she likes it), you joke harder. I guess it's really a lot of instinct and experience when it comes down to it, and I'm a quick learner.

I wish I could better describe it, but with experience and intuition you'll get it. I know I still doubt myself enough that I back down before I really should. Girl likes me, blah blah blah I'm being a bit edgy in some way, she reacts funny, I take it back (ugh, embarrassing), but no she likes it... Never gonna doubt that 'pushy pushy monkey brain' (that's the smart part's name) again.

 

[Dude Abides]

Hi.

I was 5 years in the PUA community, now i have a girlfriend who I live with.

What happens in this community? Do you have weekly meetings? Do they give you a merit badge if you manage to insult 10 women in one night?

 

[Plywood]

"Hey, let's just go somewhere and spend time doing XOXO "

 

[Puddles]

I find much of the criticism pretty amusing, but also sad in a way.

First of all, "Just be yourself," or "PUA teaches you to be fake." In general, the people who will seek out this material are not satisfied with themselves and the responses they're getting in the dating world. Why shouldn't someone work to change himself if he doesn't like the results he's been getting? He should just stay "himself" and unhappy? That's ridiculous. You wouldn't tell an obese person to just be true to himself; why would you say that to a guy who fails over and over again with women?

Second, "PUA material is manipulative." I don't see that at all. If giving yourself the best chance to succeed is manipulative, then millions of people are manipulating others every single day. Why wouldn't you want to go with an approach that has a higher success rate than "Hi, I'm John, what's your name?" Especially if "Hi, I'm John, what's your name?" hasn't been working for you?

As long as you're ethical and don't get creepy, I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to give yourself every possible advantage when it comes to finding a partner. You get one life to live; why not go for as much happiness as you can?

 

[serotonina]

I have seen a lot of arguments about whether or not this stuff works, and if it does, whether or not it is effective for dating relationships, and lastly whether or not it is ethical, but not so much about what it is we're talking about. So to move things in that direction, when I have read about the PUA community, this is what I have come across (and this website, though not this article, was linked to me by the friend I mentioned in the earlier discussion in Dating Age which this current topic stemmed from):

An often unremarked (partly because it goes against the reigning feminist narrative) structural unfairness between the sexes is the amount of effort the average man has to put into dating and relationships to keep them going, compared to the feeble efforts women usually expend on dating momentum and relationship management. The fact is that men (without game) *do* have to commit more energy to courtship and relationships because young, fertile women are the sex in higher demand. Women have to do all of not messing up their looks. (The effort to apply make-up and buy stylish, sexy clothes is nothing compared to the psychological, provisioning and logistical efforts men bring to the table.)

But as we here at the Chateau are fond of saying: life is unfair. Get used to it. Double standards exist and aren’t going anywhere because many of them are emergent properties of fixed, innate sex-based characteristics. Men have no more moral basis to bitch about dating energy expenditure than do women about slut shaming.

WTF is this shit?

In a stable and healthy relationship you will have an equilibrium between "efforts" to make it works.
Otherwise, you have to bail out.

But thanks to the wonders of game, men can limit their relationship energy requirements while maximizing the impact each unit of spent energy has on women’s interest levels. In layman’s terms, men can easily spice up relationships (and dates) with almost no effort by employing the drive-by tease. Examples:

- Flush the toilet when she’s in the shower.
- Snap wet towel at her butt. (Should just barely cross line of genuine pain.)
- “Happy Valentine’s Day!” [give her a wrapped box of condoms]
- Put a “pinch my butt” post-it note on her back as she’s heading out for work.
- Slip her car into neutral when she’s driving. (Note: not recommended on women with exceptionally bad driving skills.)
- Turn the light off or unplug her dryer when she’s doing her hair.
- Pretend to throw her cat out the window. (A full throwing motion accompanied by frantic mewing will boost dramatic effect.)
- Never miss a chance to turn a serious question into a glib answer.
- Pretend to accidentally cut off your finger in the kitchen. (Use gobs of ketchup.)
- Replace her cosmetics with crayons.
- Put her panties on her cat (Don’t put them on the dog if the dog is yours. There are some lines not meant to be crossed.)
- Draw smiley faces or penises on her tampons.
- Paint a picture of her. With great fanfare, unveil a stick figure drawing.
- Pull weeds from the yard. Put them in a vase with a sincere love note attached. (Act offended if she doesn’t swoon for your weeds. Keep up the pretense for weeks.)
- Place a giant stuffed animal or clown doll in bed, facing her. When she wakes up, she’ll freak.
- Walk around casually at home with your dick hanging out of your jeans crotch. Call her a perv for noticing.
- Turn her shirts inside out.
- Put a Baby Ruth in her shoe. “Omg, I think the cat pooped in your shoe.”
- Dutch oven. Shower oven. Car oven.
- Honk her tits. Make loud honking noise. Bonus points if you use an air horn.

The drive-by tease is, typically, the non-verbal equivalent of the cocky/funny neg. More elaborate forms qualify as pranks. The DBT subliminally asserts male dominance as well as creativity, both of which are catnip to women. Dominance assertion is telegraphed in any act where the subtext is “I don’t care if you’re offended by this.” Girls like men who don’t walk on eggshells around them. But why?, you ask. Well, because men like that are interpreted by women to have options, that is, a take it or leave it attitude toward women. And a man who can walk away without much fuss is a desirable man. That doesn’t sound very romantic, but in practice when you act like this type of man your life will feel romantic as you are showered with women’s loving romantic love bombs.

This, of course, is one of the mild ones with relatively little overt misogyny. And needless to say, this does not sound like the most immature, trite, evolutionary psychology nonsense driven pablum. Not at all.

Anyone else have "game" tips they would like to share?

I don't even...

This is the most stupid and obnoxious list of advices ever.
It seems like those advices that couples without children gives to couples with children.

 

[twofold]

Snipped Heartiste Stuff

Roissy is such an asshole. I had a friend who was obsessed with his stuff and it turned his girlfriend into a wreck. He also became more of a dick to the folks in our social circle in an effort to be more 'alpha' and people eventually started to dislike being around him.

You don't have to be a dick like that to shift the relationship in your favour.

Hi.

I was 5 years in the PUA community, now i have a girlfriend who I live with.

I'd say you're the exception more than the rule, bud. I spent about 2 years actively in the community and the majority of the folks I met there are in the same place today than they were then.

Personally, I had fun screwing random chicks at first, but I actually started to get lonely after a while and I was getting rather depressed.

Still, through sleeping around a ton, I learned a lot about what I want out of a girl and I've found a girl that meets my criteria. It's also nice to know that, if things went wrong, I'd be able to find another top quality girl without too much worry.

What happens in this community? Do you have weekly meetings? Do they give you a merit badge if you manage to insult 10 women in one night?

It's more of a support network than anything, and an easy way to meet guys who like to go out a lot. I met a few really great guys through it that I consider some of my best friends, but I also met a ton of creepy guys who I hope to never meet again, hah.

 

[Puddles]

Question: if guys are able to successfully use some of this material to get women to willingly go home with them and have 100% consensual sex, is there anything unethical about that?

I say there isn't, but judging from the responses in this thread, some would say that there is. If so, what is unethical?

 

[Vermillion]

Question: if guys are able to successfully use some of this material to get women to willingly go home with them and have 100% consensual sex, is there anything unethical about that?

I say there isn't, but judging from the responses in this thread, some would say that there is. If so, what is unethical?

It's exploiting a weakness.

Usually daddy issues, lets be honest.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

It's exploiting a weakness.

Usually daddy issues, lets be honest.

You need to watch less How I Met Your Mother

 

[Vermillion]

You need to watch less How I Met Your Mother

I've already watched all of the episodes, lol. And it's hilarious, so

Besides, it's probably true anyways. They've got to have some reason for letting blatant insults get them into bed faster

 

[Steelrain]

Sigh... I knew this thread wasn't going to go well. If I go into another OT and start shitting all over it I'd probably be banned though.

 

[Chinner]

do any of you guys support the use of suppliments to help seduce women?

 

[Antagon]

do any of you guys support the use of suppliments to help seduce women?

You mean chloroform? Sure.

 

[serotonina]

Question: if guys are able to successfully use some of this material to get women to willingly go home with them and have 100% consensual sex, is there anything unethical about that?

I say there isn't, but judging from the responses in this thread, some would say that there is. If so, what is unethical?

Ethical or unethical is not the point.

It gives you a bad perception of how relationship (and one night stands) really works.
At some point, you will need something more than consensual sex, and you will fail miserably in attaining it.

Also, as in competitive sports, if you need steroids to give you a shortcut to perform at high levels maybe you weren't supposed to be there at that point.

 

[akachan ningen]

look at all these people wanting to win the argument

 

[SmokyDave]

- Walk around casually at home with your dick hanging out of your jeans crotch. Call her a perv for noticing.

I don't call this a prank, I call this 'Tuesday'.

 

[Ikael]

There is one piece of advice that the PUA community has which I definitely agree with:

Never take advice about attracting women, from a woman.

There is no wider gap than that between what women find attractive, and what women rationalize as attractive.

That's entirely true, but it is also true for us men as well. Humans in general are extremely self - desilusional, and we like to hold dear false images of ourselves specially when it comes to love matters. "I would only fall in love with a women with intelligence and heart, regardless of her l... loook at this titties OMFG she must be mine!". Women do the very same thing, but I have noticed a little tad more prevalence on this issue, and I think that this has to do with societal preassure - we don't bat an eye if a man admits that he is just interested in sex, yet if a girl does the same she is labelled as a slut.

 

[Vermillion]

Hey, more xkcd:

 

[twofold]

Ethical or unethical is not the point.

It gives you a bad perception of how relationship (and one night stands) really works.
At some point, you will need something more than consensual sex, and you will fail miserably in attaining it.

Also, as in competitive sports, if you need steroids to give you a shortcut to perform at high levels maybe you weren't supposed to be there at that point.

That's not true at all. I had no problem at all finding a girl for a relationship once I decided I wanted one. I was also able to choose from a variety of different girls instead of settling for the first one that gave me any attention. I've been with my girlfriend now for about 9 months. We get on well personality wise, are compatible in bed and I love being around her - the fact that we met each other and hooked up during the first date was never a problem.

Your point about steroids is just stupid. What's wrong with improving yourself to be a better person?

Funnily enough, I actually heard about the pua thing from a post on this forum years back. Some guy referenced 'The Game' and, out of curiousity, I bought the book.

As a result of reading the book, my life and goals changed dramatically. I've met tons of amazing women and my social skills have improved immeasurably. I also decided to quit my job and start doing marketing online which provided me with a great income and allowed me to spend two years travelling. As a bonus, I'm in the best shape of my life.

I don't think the pua community is perfect, but it has helped me (and others) out tons.

 

[lopaz]

I'm not really here to have some relative vile-ness debate, because I know nothing of cum manifesto, but Manipulated Man is definitely vile.

To the point where I'd never personally call it "interesting." You can discuss societies roles without repeatedly saying females lack intelligence. The entire book is an endless bash of women.

The book does touch on some interesting topics, almost like PUA material in that way, but it's so laced with misogyny I can't take anyone seriously who expresses anything but disgust for the book.

I can't remember too much of it, was a long time ago, and I may be confusing it with other, similar material I've read, but I didn't find any notion that 'females lack intelligence'. Certainly not. In fact, it portrays women as having a devious sort of intelligence whereupon they feign helplessness to provoke a man into doing work for them.
The argument is women are more than capable of doing things themselves, but frequently are able to play on the male's ego to save labour.

Two examples:
- men buying women drinks at the bar. What, are the women broke or something?
- men frequently taking responsibility for more manual household chores, like fixing washing machines

 

[serotonina]

That's not true at all. I had no problem at all finding a girl for a relationship once I decided I wanted one. I was also able to choose from a variety of different girls instead of settling for the first one that gave me any attention. I've been with my girlfriend now for about 9 months. We get on well personality wise, are compatible in bed and I love being around her - the fact that we met each other and hooked up during the first date was never a problem.

Your point about steroids is just stupid. What's wrong with improving yourself to be a better person?

Funnily enough, I actually heard about the pua thing from a post on this forum years back. Some guy referenced 'The Game' and, out of curiousity, I bought the book.

As a result of reading the book, my life and goals changed dramatically. I've met tons of amazing women and my social skills have improved immeasurably. I also decided to quit my job and start doing marketing online which provided me with a great income and allowed me to spend two years travelling. As a bonus, I'm in the best shape of my life.

I don't think the pua community is perfect, but it has helped me (and others) out tons.

Good post, can see the marketer in you.

Anyway, good for you being the exception to the rule. You grew up as a person and gave yourself a goal.
Getting into shape, finding a new job and so on is something that you do by yourself, boosting your confidence and aiming high, not with silly opener and whatever a PUA do this days to touch some boobies.

I'm not criticizing who is using this method to know new girls and whatnot, I'm criticizing the method itself as it's a layer of lies most desperate people will cover themselves to be on par with others.

Let's make an example.
Almost in every PUA thread people talks about the "nagging" technique, on how you have to show you are dominant as that what girls likes and so on.
Now, you are either dominant or you are not. There's no magic potion, spell or set of words that will make you an "alpha male".
So, basically, you are cheating by lying to yourself and to people around yourself.
You are not an alpha male, you are not dominant and when your "game" is getting loose everything you fabricated will crumble.

You can boost your confidence, be more secure about yourself, self-esteem and whatever, but you will never be dominant just because you want to be.

Of course you don't have to necessary be yourself. If you are an obnoxious prick, or a complete egoistic asshole you may change your attitude, but for real, and not by just pretending.

That's why I'm saying resorting to PUA as some sort of science is like using steroids or, even better, Synthol.
You may look cool and strong, but if something goes wrong you collapse.

You need practice, you need to be a better person, not a better swinger.

 

[Puddles]

"You are either dominant or you are not."

What? Anything can be learned. Anything can be practiced and perfected.

Naturally dominant or not, most people shrink under pressure. This isn't something unique to the guys who would use PUA material.

 

[DrBo42]

Need a shower after reading this thread. It's like an instruction manual on how to be empty inside. Yikes.

 

[djtiesto]

So much class these PUA fellas. So much class.

More:
http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/
http://therawness.com/valuing-time/

Ahhh, Heartiste was formerly known as Roissy, one of the most infamous of the PUA's/evolutionary psychologists/paleocons. I'd read that blog occasionally just for the "trainwreck" aspect of it (similar to how an adjusted, non racist would peruse stormfront out of morbid curiosity)... Roissy is pretty much the epitome of PUA-as-sociopath, I was actually wondering if you were familiar with his "work", Devo.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

I got game.

Yes I do.

I got game.

How about you?

 

[twofold]

Good post, can see the marketer in you.

Anyway, good for you being the exception to the rule. You grew up as a person and gave yourself a goal.
Getting into shape, finding a new job and so on is something that you do by yourself, boosting your confidence and aiming high, not with silly opener and whatever a PUA do this days to touch some boobies.

I'm not criticizing who is using this method to know new girls and whatnot, I'm criticizing the method itself as it's a layer of lies most desperate people will cover themselves to be on par with others.

Let's make an example.
Almost in every PUA thread people talks about the "nagging" technique, on how you have to show you are dominant as that what girls likes and so on.
Now, you are either dominant or you are not. There's no magic potion, spell or set of words that will make you an "alpha male".
So, basically, you are cheating by lying to yourself and to people around yourself.
You are not an alpha male, you are not dominant and when your "game" is getting loose everything you fabricated will crumble.

You can boost your confidence, be more secure about yourself, self-esteem and whatever, but you will never be dominant just because you want to be.

Of course you don't have to necessary be yourself. If you are an obnoxious prick, or a complete egoistic asshole you may change your attitude, but for real, and not by just pretending.

That's why I'm saying resorting to PUA as some sort of science is like using steroids or, even better, Synthol.
You may look cool and strong, but if something goes wrong you collapse.

You need practice, you need to be a better person, not a better swinger.

I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about PUA stuff. See, the negging, and the routines, and all that other bullshit is a very small part of the 'community'. That sort of thinking is very outdated and isn't too popular nowadays.

There's another movement that says that the way to getting better with girls is to improve yourself and learn to get better socially without using routines; i.e. become a more naturally attractive guy - that's the part that I subscribe to. I can count on one hand the amount of routines I've ever used on a girl; they're just weird to me. Think of it as "self help for men", rather than just "getting laid". This is what's known as 'inner game'.

'Outer game' basically encompasses everything else; how to start a conversation, how to escalate things physically, how to take a girl out of the club and handle her friends. Simple, basic things. You can still be yourself and talk about whatever you want (I had a chat with an Aussie girl about Starcraft once, haha), but having a bit of a framework ensures that things are always moving forwards and you're improving your chances of hooking up.

 

[Uncompromisable]

I'd say you're the exception more than the rule, bud. I spent about 2 years actively in the community and the majority of the folks I met there are in the same place today than they were then.

Personally, I had fun screwing random chicks at first, but I actually started to get lonely after a while and I was getting rather depressed.

Still, through sleeping around a ton, I learned a lot about what I want out of a girl and I've found a girl that meets my criteria. It's also nice to know that, if things went wrong, I'd be able to find another top quality girl without too much worry.



It's more of a support network than anything, and an easy way to meet guys who like to go out a lot. I met a few really great guys through it that I consider some of my best friends, but I also met a ton of creepy guys who I hope to never meet again, hah.

I guess we're both exceptions. I know a handful of others that "graduated" from it too, many never made much progress, and some will be players till they die.

The bolded sentence is key and has been a very strong benefit that has helped me deal with relationship problems with minimal stress.

I also agree with the support network aspect, that really is one of the strongest advantages.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I can't remember too much of it, was a long time ago, and I may be confusing it with other, similar material I've read, but I didn't find any notion that 'females lack intelligence'. Certainly not. In fact, it portrays women as having a devious sort of intelligence whereupon they feign helplessness to provoke a man into doing work for them.
The argument is women are more than capable of doing things themselves, but frequently are able to play on the male's ego to save labour.

Two examples:
- men buying women drinks at the bar. What, are the women broke or something?
- men frequently taking responsibility for more manual household chores, like fixing washing machines

The book repeatedly outright states that women lack intelligence.

There is even a chapter entitled "Her stupidity makes woman devine."

On the very first page of the book, the author makes this statement:

Women let men work for them, think for them and take on their responsibilities -- in fact, they exploit them. Yet, since men are strong, intelligent and imaginative, while women are weak, unimaginative, and stupid, why isn't it men who exploit women?

Again.. first page of the book.

The book is FULL of just as bad and worse statements. She very briefly makes the claim that women are actually "born equal" to men, then never once says anything other than women being stupid manipulative liars.

You aren't the first person who read the book, and for some reason walked away thinking it was "interesting," somehow not noticing that the entire book is a hate filled rant.

And while admitting that men are often "foolish," the book also attempts to suck the dick of collective man as often as it can as well.

A chapter entitled "the fair sex" begins with:

To someone from outer space surely men would appear infinitely more worthy of admiration than women, for man has intelligence as well as beauty.

The book is a joke. It was written to appeal to bitter woman hating men.

 

[Poindexter]

do any of you guys support the use of suppliments to help seduce women?

I used to stuff a cucumber down my pants to make it look like I had a huge wang.

 

[FelixOrion]

I make paintings with my Ford Ranger.

Am I a PUA?

 

[low-G]

It's exploiting a weakness.

Usually daddy issues, lets be honest.

All sex is manipulation at some point, if you're going to use that reasoning.