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[Red Scarlet]

If 'gambit system ftw', why would you be inputting every character's action every time on active mode, dralla?

 

[crowphoenix]

I'd consider myself a moron and very rarely do I have any problem with P3's AI. But then, I'm normally issuing out commands and actually healing/buffing my own team. Just because I'm the one stat buffing and healing doesn't mean they're retarded. And sure, Yukairi will occasionally do a full heal when I wanted her to do a party heal. But you know what else? It hasn't once cost me a match. If I died, it was because I made a stupid decision or missed.

 

[Jigsaw]

She can walk through my teammates, and when Elmdor almost kills her, she sometimes will try to attack one of the assassins. Maybe they changed her AI in the PSP version (I don't know what version you're playing, but you spelled Rafa differently), but in the PS1 version it is a flip of a coin for what she does. It's not my fault at all for what the computer does when it's probably impossible to block her escape route.

im playing the psp version,since they retranslated the game her name is now rapha

and its definitively possible to block her way(ive made it ),because she can only move 3-4 tiles (no move+ skills or acceccoires equipped)

 

[Askia47]

P3 so far is fine AI wise, i thought it would be a problem, but actually its pretty decent. FFXII's AI is a little slow, and the enemies are little TOO fast. So I end up dying more than i hope too.
Playing without gambits is also fun but alot slower. I need to play more of FFXII though, in the 1 1/2 years I've had it ive only played 14 hours.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I've never blocked her way in the PS1 one, and really, I tended to die more against the ninja when she would walk right up to them before anyone could go, then get killed by the ninja afterward. Same kinda thing in the Elmdor fight; he'd hit her, then she'd go and smack an assassin then die afterward. I tend to space my people out (can't do it too much in Elmdor), but there is definitely space for her to move to safety if she so choose, and has never done so. So I really don't see how it is my fault for her being stupid.

 

[dralla]

I used the gambit to level my characters, I also didn't see the battle options until a long ways into the game so I used it for quite a bit. gambit system is great

 

[Joule]

The only thing I hated about gambits is that they weren't all available from the start. Come on I want to cure blind here.

 

[Red Scarlet]

You could cure blind from the start, which made not buying too many gambits really easy to go through the game with. You could just set 'any ally->eyedrop (or the spell)' and it would use an eyedrop to cure blindness. There was pretty much no point to get the status-specific ones.

I used the gambit to level my characters, I also didn't see the battle options until a long ways into the game so I used it for quite a bit. gambit system is great

Why wouldn't you just use them for the rest of the game?

 

[Joule]

You could cure blind from the start, which made not buying too many gambits really easy to go through the game with. You could just set 'any ally->eyedrop (or the spell)' and it would use an eyedrop to cure blindness. There was pretty much no point to get the status-specific ones.

I have no idea why that didn't cross my mind all those times I got blinded. I still think they should give you all the gambits outright though.

 

[dralla]

it could get boring letting the CPU do all the work for me, good change of pace. I would switch between the 2 methods

 

[MisterHero]

Are there more examples than FFXII and P3? It didn't bother me at all in either game, but I can see how it could be really fustrating if it didn't do what you wanted at a vital moment. For P3 I felt it simulated the idea of crawling with friends really well though. You can tell them what you would prefer them to do, but sometimes they would still fuck up. :lol

You basically program your allies' AI in FFXII. :lol

I actually found it interesting but I can imagine a lot of people wouldn't like it.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I have no idea why that didn't cross my mind all those times I got blinded. I still think they should give you all the gambits outright though.

Doing that lowered the gambits I'd buy by quite a bit.

it could get boring letting the CPU do all the work for me, good change of pace. I would switch between the 2 methods

I enjoyed the game MUCH more when I had my gambits set up incorrectly and they would only heal outside of battle; I had to heal in battle.

 

[dralla]

I don't think "incorrectly" is the right word, there's no wrong and right way to use the gambit system.

 

[suzu]

I think if you're having problems with FF12's AI, you're programming them wrong. :[ P3's party AI wasn't bad, although they could've probably gave a few more options to mess around with.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Well, it was incorrect in that they wouldn't heal when I needed them to in battle, because I set their priority number lower than 'attack enemy'. I didn't fully understand gambits until the second time I played.

 

[Gendal]

I adored FFXII's gambit system. P3 not so much. I could kinda sorta get P3 not to aggravate me so much if I kept adjusting each members pattern all the time, but then I should have just gotten full control to begin with.

Otherwise, CPU controlled party members suck.

 

[Diablos]

Ah yeah, if it counts as someone just mentioned, FF Tactics. AI Rafa is sooooooooooooooo stupid, let's walk INTO THESE NINJA or THESE ASSASSINS.

That always drove me crazy. I guess you could look at it as added challenge... har

Generally speaking, I hate CPU controlled party characters in excess, especially in RPG's.

 

[Flynn]

Artificially inflated difficulty.

Could that be it? I get that same feeling from the damn escort quests in Mystery Dungeon. The more I think about it the more I believe that Shiren, simpler, is a vastly better game.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I echo the hate for CPU-controlled party members. Let's look at the possibilities:

* They are effective, and basically do what you want them to do. Because AI just isn't advanced enough in any field, let alone game development, this means that the combat system is shallow enough that the few basic actions the AI can handle (heal when wounded, attack most of the time, use magic occasionally) can suffice. Which means combat sucks.

* They are ineffective, and they don't do what you want. This is the most common scenario. It makes combat arbitrary and more dependent on luck than skill. Alternatively, combat is made so easy that it doesn't matter if the AI screws up. Either way, it sucks.

Maybe there's a small boost to immersion by not being able to directly control your party (although I'd question this, because in reality, you'd be able to give people orders and instructions that you can't in any game), but this questionable boost is more than counteracted by the severe loss in combat depth and increase in player frustration/disconnectedness.

 

[Lain]

CPU controlled party members in turn based RPGs don't bother me too much, when i can tweak said AIs so that they'll act the way I want them to (BG2, FFXII). It ends up making the game more immersive as I only have to really worry about my character while still allowing me to take control of every single character if I want.

 

[FromTheFuture]

In turn-based games? Yeah, that blows because, well, whats the point? But FFXII Gambits worked great, imo.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I had no issue with how it was implemented in P3. The tactics I was able to set them to usually was enough for me to get them to do what I wanted them to do once I figured out the nuances for each. The main issue I really had was that the main character dying meant game over even if the rest of the party was perfectly fine.

 

[grenadeguru]

Yep, hate. I just have no desire to play RPGs with CPU controlled party members at all. I will completely discount a game on that basis alone. That and lame poncy elves.

 

[vertopci]

I don't get why everyone has a problem with the P3 AI. They pretty do whatever you tell them to if you give them the command.

The only problem I had was Mitsuru constantly using Marin Karin when she first joins you.

 

[justchris]

FFXII's gambit system worked great. It was user-programmable AI.

Persona 3, for the most part, wasn't that bad, but having to change the AI every round in some fights got tedious. In that scenario, I'd rather just control my characters.

 

[Ranger X]

Why specify TURN_BASED ?

AI controlled characters DO suck in real time RPGs too.

 

[mollipen]

AI controlled party members are the future, a future I await with open arms and a smiling face.

You people who hate them are helping to keep me from this future, and that instead makes me sad.

 

[Lakupo]

I loved gambits. It took a lot of tedium out of the RPG level grind. I definitely stuck to Wait and managed like crazy in boss fights, but I was happy to let the game play itself in between. The game was in the planning!

I don't get why everyone has a problem with the P3 AI. They pretty do whatever you tell them to if you give them the command.

The only problem I had was Mitsuru constantly using Marin Karin when she first joins you.

"Obey my command!" No, kill it!

I didn't get far enough in the original to really see if it got better there, but in FES, I've actually noticed the AI get smarter over time. When Knock Down became an available tactic, I've noticed even class A moron Stupei starting to knock down all of the enemies on Act Freely, where he didn't do that before. On the other hand, I haven't seen Yukari use Charmdi on me yet, which is pretty annoying, but hasn't led to much grief except for getting spirit drained like crazy.

Ultimately, the AI party members are gravy in P3. Mostly helpful, but the onus is on you to utilize Personas effectively and stay alive. It doesn't matter if they die, but it's game over if you die. It's effectively a solo+ RPG. Which really ties in well with the game's story and game play style. It's about your interactions with other people, not just commanding everyone to do what you want. It's not for every game, but it fits perfectly with P3.

Plus, I like how AI players and having only the main change personas really streamlines the experience. Battles are faster, and I go nuts fusing personas for myself, I'm glad I don't have to worry about everyone else.

* They are effective, and basically do what you want them to do. Because AI just isn't advanced enough in any field, let alone game development, this means that the combat system is shallow enough that the few basic actions the AI can handle (heal when wounded, attack most of the time, use magic occasionally) can suffice. Which means combat sucks.

This doesn't have to be the case though. The AI in a lot of games isn't advanced because not enough attention is paid to it because of time or money restrictions, but even with current technology, AI could be made a lot better to keep up with complex game systems with just some actual effort.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I thought it was manageable in Fallout, haven't played NWN1.

Yeah, because you can do everything by yourself pretty much without relying on your allies. The little bit that you do need them they function, but it mostly works just because you don't need to rely on them most of the time.

On the other hand, in a NWN1... it's D&D. D&D is a party-based game. You can only control one character while the rest are AI controlled. It's horrible, simply horrible. With certain (melee-focused) classes you can sort of manage, but it's pretty stupid.

For another game that I don't think has been mentioned, it's a minor issue, but it did annoy me how in Lunar: Eternal Blue you couldn't control Lucia. She has so many great magic spells, but whether they help you or not is pretty much totally random... bah.

AI controlled characters DO suck in real time RPGs too.

Yes, like NWN1.

 

[Red Scarlet]

AI controlled party members are the future, a future I await with open arms and a smiling face.

You people who hate them are helping to keep me from this future, and that instead makes me sad.

You wanting the game to play the game for you makes me sad.

 

[lyre]

Could that be it? I get that same feeling from the damn escort quests in Mystery Dungeon. The more I think about it the more I believe that Shiren, simpler, is a vastly better game.

I was actually being sarcastic.

Tho considering Pokemanz has 493 monsters, over 500 moves, and who knows how many items plus TMs and HMs, that sort of thing really throws a few things (like gameplay balance, difficulty, AI schemes, etc) right out the window. While I love the PMD games personally, the games really could use a hell of a lot of streamlining when it comes to ... everything.

And yes, with a very few exceptions, simpler is always better.

 

[Error]

You wanting the game to play the game for you makes me sad.

I don't mind AI controlled characters, when done well (ie Persona 3) it can feel immersive. Sure, there were times I wondered why the AI was so dumb, but other times I actually cheered whenever they did something that impressed me. Koromaru sure was one intelligent dog!

I'm pretty open minded when it comes to AI in rpgs, when it's well implemented it can work really well, I think.

Someone complained about AI controlled characters in a game with a real time battle system, but I don't see how you could control everyone all the time in a real-time battle system.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

FFXII seriously? Your allies do whatever you tell them to do. And you can override what they're doing unless it's the last possible second.

You might be thinking of the spell queue problem (cannot cast different magic at once, damn limitations of PS2) which indeed sucks ass.

Persona 3, for the most part, wasn't that bad, but having to change the AI every round in some fights got tedious. In that scenario, I'd rather just control my characters.

You know about the tactics default option in the system menu right? Just make someone your designated healer or just press triangle if you want them to attack instead of magic. It's not perfect but I can deal.

 

[Philthy]

I actually rather like it. At least, in Persona 3 FES they've been doing what I've wanted the entire game so far. In fact, it's relaxing not having to hit the X button 4 times really fast in every battle turn. Now I just have to hit one. Go me, I guess.

 

[Error]

You might be thinking of the spell queue problem (cannot cast different magic at once, damn limitations of PS2) which indeed sucks ass.

Don't think the Hardware has anything to do with that, it's a rule of the game and the game is balanced around that rule.

 

[bryehn]

Give me a hollar when you play the game on active and controlling everyone's single action, okay?

I loved FFXII so much because it gave me the chance to do that for a few hours and then set gambits to take over for the next few for a bit of a break.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Don't think the Hardware has anything to do with that, it's a rule of the game and the game is balanced around that rule.

Balanced? Enemies can (and do) physically attack you while you're waiting for the previous spell to clear. If all actions were delayed, I would understand but it's not the case.

 

[Yaweee]

Best solution? AI if you want it, control if you want it, just like all of the recent Dragon Quests and remakes do.

 

[Error]

Balanced? Enemies can (and do) physically attack you while you're waiting for the previous spell to clear. If all actions were delayed, I would understand but it's not the case.

Do you mean, when they do a couple of hits consecutively? If so, that's normal. You can do the same. I don't know, I never felt I was gimped by that Queue thing.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Do you mean, when they do a couple of hits consecutively? If so, that's normal. You can do the same. I don't know, I never felt I was gimped by that Queue thing.

On some hunts it was annoying. Just staring at your teammate waiting and waiting while the enemy is slamming you...

edit: It was also a reason I rarely used flare because it took so damn long.

 

[hamdammage]

So it's okay to justify a horrible design decision with "That's part of the challenge." these days? When did this happen?

I guess some people here don't consider it horrible and can enjoy the damn game.

 

[Dirtbag]

Could only find a japanese screen...

But I'm sure if you played this level, you remember it in every language.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I loved it in FF XII. It had a sort of army general feel to it; the commander issuing orders and tactical parameters to his troops.

But to this day is still sometimes drives me insane in FFT. Just yesterday I had Rapha get herself killed twice in Yardow.

 

[Flynn]

I was actually being sarcastic.

Tho considering Pokemanz has 493 monsters, over 500 moves, and who knows how many items plus TMs and HMs, that sort of thing really throws a few things (like gameplay balance, difficulty, AI schemes, etc) right out the window. While I love the PMD games personally, the games really could use a hell of a lot of streamlining when it comes to ... everything.

And yes, with a very few exceptions, simpler is always better.

I'm with you. But in a way your sarcasm was getting at something about the PMD games -- the grind, which in a way is a form of contrived difficulty.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Could only find a japanese screen...

But I'm sure if you played this level, you remember it in every language.

Yellow why are you so USELESS?!

 

[rollingstart]

I like CPU controlled party characters. I like to play a role in the game and not one of a babysitter. If the devs are also able to get in the characters attitude in the fighting style, that also builds the experience.