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[M3d10n]

Could the sega CD have done the game in real time? Were its scaling/rotation ablitites beyond the SVP chip used in virtua racing?

No way. Just watch it on youtube yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InF4Gzy3ifI, specially at 7:00.

There are some crazy ass polycounts in the later levels that might be beyond PSOne territory. Also, the geometry in the backgrounds doesn't jitter/stutters, which means high-precision calculations which were simply not possible on a 16-bit machine.

 

[VARIA]

Wow, that EGM magazine scan sounds like Sega propaganda.

Did the writers even know the difference between FMV backgrounds and actual polygon environments?

 

[cheststrongwell]

isn't this the game that Dave Halverson called "the greatest game that will likely ever be made"?


Or was that Tempest 2000 for the Jaguar?

He thought every shit game was the best game ever made. I still think Gamefan was the best game mag ever.

 

[Foxix Von]

I still really need to pick this game up along with some other sega cd gems.

 

[cheststrongwell]

I wonder why Sega CD games are never released on stuff like PSN or Virtual Console. I'd kill for Snatcher on my PS3 or Vita.

 

[StarCreator]

I wonder why Sega CD games are never released on stuff like PSN or Virtual Console. I'd kill for Snatcher on my PS3 or Vita.

Sonic CD was re-released for pretty much everything except DS/Vita though!

 

[cheststrongwell]

Sonic CD was re-released for pretty much everything except DS/Vita though!

Sorry, I meant good Sega CD games.

 

[MrCunningham]

No way. Just watch it on youtube yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InF4Gzy3ifI, specially at 7:00.

I really loved this game. yeah it used pre-rendered video backdrops, but it was an enjoyable experience for what it was. The game did display real polygons, but only for the ships and a few scant other objects. But I don't imagine that the hardware could output a large number of polygons in real time. The music in this game is great as well... it doesn't use recorded redbook audio like most of the other Sega CD games, so the tracks are being generated from the actual Sega CD hardware using PCM. The music had a really bassy arcade sound to it.

The Sega CD was really much better at sprite scaling than anything else. Soul Star was the perfect example of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMjGyhDNiA&feature=player_detailpage#t=75s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IYUuk-DLl8&feature=player_detailpage#t=140s

The game almost could pass for a Sega System arcade game at times.

 

[forknknife]

I really loved this game. yeah it used pre-rendered video backdrops, but it was an enjoyable experience for what it was. The game did display real polygons, but only for the ships and a few scant other objects. But I don't imagine that the hardware could output a large number of polygons in real time. The music in this game is great as well... it doesn't use recorded redbook audio like most of the other Sega CD games, so the tracks are being generated from the actual Sega CD hardware using PCM. The music had a really bassy arcade sound to it.

The Sega CD was really much better at sprite scaling than anything else. Soul Star was the perfect example of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMjGyhDNiA&feature=player_detailpage#t=75s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IYUuk-DLl8&feature=player_detailpage#t=140s

The game almost could pass for a Sega System arcade game at times.

holy shit, if I had seen this game as a kid I would have gone bananas!

 

[revolverjgw]

Wow, that EGM magazine scan sounds like Sega propaganda.

Did the writers even know the difference between FMV backgrounds and actual polygon environments?

EGM writers in that era didn't know shit, especially Semrad

 

[Mindman]

I had no idea this game had FMV backgrounds! I don't recall it looking hideous like the other FMV games.

Great game and soundtrack, though.

 

[GDGF]

One of my first fanboy rages (sad because I was 19-ish at the time) revolved around an editorial in EGM by Ed Semrad about this game -- how the poly count of the backgrounds in Silpheed will kick Starfox to the curb.

It just baffled me because after seeing the game in action I knew those backgrounds were prerendered and streaming.

Someone pull that issue up and repost that editorial, please.

I remember that. Pissed me off at the time too

 

[MrCunningham]

holy shit, if I had seen this game as a kid I would have gone bananas!

Sprite scaling and rotation was really what the Sega CD really did best. Forget about all that FMV nonsense...

Adventures of Batman and Robin for the Sega CD was another good example of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5ebpKFC0hI&feature=player_detailpage#t=1804s

The game itself wasn't particularly great. But it is am excellent tech demo of what the Sega CD could do. Though this game came out in 1995 and by then everyone was being wowed by the Playstation and Sega Saturn to really notice it much.

 

[J2d]

Music kicked ass though

Yes! I still listen to it and some remixes.

 

[Sapiens]

If anyone is interested, here are the reviews for both games from EGM.

For added hilarity, please note that Ed Dickrad (or Semdick) is the first reviewer on Silpheed. Dude couldn't even admit when he was wrong.

Starfox was mesmerizing in 1993 - Silpheed really was an average game.

 

[iidesuyo]

Could the sega CD have done the game in real time? Were its scaling/rotation ablitites beyond the SVP chip used in virtua racing?

No way. The SVP was an exceptionally capable processor in 1994, the Mega CD was released 3 years prior.

AFAIK the Mega CD just added another 68000, please correct me

 

[racerx77]

No way. The SVP was an exceptionally capable processor in 1994, the Mega CD was released 3 years prior.

AFAIK the Mega CD just added another 68000, please correct me

Sega SVP specs
Manufacturer
Sega

Introduced
1994

Discontinued
1994

Type
Digital signal processor

Processor
Samsung SSP160x

Frequency
23MHz

Memory
Two independent high-speed RAM banks, accessed in single clock cycle, 256 words each
16 × 16-bit multiply unit
32-bit ALU, status register
Hardware stack of 6 levels
128KB of DRAM
2KB of IRAM (instruction RAM)
Memory controller with address mapping capability
2MB of game ROM



Sega CD specs


Motorola 68000 16-Bit @ 12.5 MHz (syncs with Genesis 68000 CPU)


Hardware Graphic Processor (Custom ASIC Chip)
Biaxial Rotation, Scaling, Zoom
Number of Simultaneous Colors On-Screen (Gameplay): 64 out of 512 color pallette
Supported Display Resolutions: 320 x 224 Pixels and 256 x 224 Pixels
Number of Simultaneous Colors On-Screen (Full-Motion Video): 128 to 256 (Cinepak and TruVideo Modes)
Video Size: From 1/4 to Full-Screen
Advanced compression scheme
Software-based upgrade

RAM
6 Mb (Program, Picture & Sound Data)
512 Kb (PCM Waveform Memory)
128 Kb (CD-ROM Cata Cache Memory)
64 Kb (Backup Memory)
Boot ROM
1 Mb (CD Game Bios, CD Player Software, CD+G Compatible)
CD-ROM

ISO-9660 Mode 1 Compliant - 1x Speed Drive (150 Kb/sec)
Rotational Direction: Counter-Clockwise (Against Surface Read)
CD Access Time 0.8 Seconds Minimum ~ 1.4 Seconds Maximum (800 ms ~ 1400 ms)
Average: 0.8 Seconds (800 ms)
Storage Media
Compact Disc Read-Only Memory (CD-ROM) Disc: 500 MB Maximum Capacity
Supported Disc Types: 5 inch (12 cm) and 3 inch (8 cm)

Sound Circuitry
Ricoh RF5C164 Chip @ 12 MHz Max
PCM Sound Source: Stereo, 8 Channels
Sampling Wavelength: 32 KHz Max (44.1 KHz Max for CDDA)
16-Bit D/A Converter
8x Internal Over-Sampling Digital Filter
Supported Audio Formats: ISO-9660 Mode 1, Red Book (CDDA), CD+G

 

[racerx77]

I figured I would post this too, since apparently Sega was going to use the SVP for many more games, but went with the 32X instead.

MAIN PROCESSORS:
Twin Hitachi (SH2) 32-bit RISC processors
- Clock speed of 23 MHz per processor
- 40 MIPS

CO-PROCESSOR:
32X VDP (Video Display Processor)
- 50,000 texture-mapped polygons per second
- Texture mapping
- Hardware scaling and rotation

ADDITIONAL PROCESSORS WITH GENESIS:
Genesis 16-bit Motorola 68000 CPU
- Clock speed of 7.67 MHz
Genesis 8-bit Z80 (I/O device, sound and Master System CPU)
- Clock speed of 3.58 MHz

ADDITIONAL PROCESSORS WITH SEGA CD:
Sega CD 16-bit Motorola 68000 CPU
- Clock speed of 12.5 MHz
Custom ASIC graphics processor
- Hardware scaling and rotation

VIDEO:
- 32,768 simultaneous colors on screen
- 320 x 224 resolution
- Overlays video over existing Genesis/Sega CD video
- Cinepak and TruVideo capabilities with Sega CD

MEMORY:
512k (4 MBit) additional RAM to Genesis/Sega CD memory

AUDIO:
Stereo PCM chip
- Audio mixes with Genesis Yamaha YM2612 and PSG chips
- Adds an additional 2 sound channels

STORAGE:
CD-Rom with Sega CD
- 150 kbytes/sec CD Drive Speed
- Compatible with audio CD, CD&G, SegaCD and JVC X'eye
Cartridge
- Compatible with Genesis models 1, model 2, JVC X'eye, and Sega CDX



It would have been really neat to see what could have been done with the Genesis, 32x, and sega CD processors all working together.

 

[iidesuyo]

Wasn't the Mega Drive/Genesis simply used as a gateway by the 32X? Their power couldn't be bundled. Again, please correct me, it's just some shady stuff I remember from magazines back in the 90's.

 

[EdgeXL]

I know, a scan. I'll remove if you want me to!

I remember this issue. It is also worth mentioning that when EGM reviewed both games Starfox got a higher score AND was also EGM's Gold award winner. Even Ed Semrad gave Starfox a higher score. Ed's opening column about Silpheed was just trolling for exposure.

EGM was a bit sensationalist back then. Remember when they ran a banner ad in one issue proclaiming that the boss code for Street Fighter II was inside?

 

[@MUWANdo]

Wasn't the Mega Drive/Genesis simply used as a gateway by the 32X? Their power couldn't be bundled. Again, please correct me, it's just some shady stuff I remember from magazines back in the 90's.

The 32X is very dependent (and hamstrung) by the hardware in the Megadrive, it wasn't just using the console as a conduit to the TV or whatever. Getting the most out of it required careful delegation of all four available processors (the two SH-2's in the 32X, and the 68k/Z80 in the MD). In something like Knuckles Chaotix, for example, they're using the MD to draw the backgrounds and the 32X to draw the sprites and other environmental objects (IIRC).

One really simple way to observe the roles of the various processors is to unplug the cable connecting the 32X to the MD during gameplay--the 32X layer will disappear from the screen, the MD layer will still be visible.

 

[Sapiens]

Wasn't the Mega Drive/Genesis simply used as a gateway by the 32X? Their power couldn't be bundled. Again, please correct me, it's just some shady stuff I remember from magazines back in the 90's.

From what I understand, the two systems actually layered the video, which is why you had that cable passthrough.

A lot of game used the Megadrive VDP to produce backgrounds and then the 32X to handle Sprites.

There are quite a few games where the MD base is still doing a lot of heavy lifting.

 

[MrCunningham]

From what I understand, the two systems actually layered the video, which is why you had that cable passthrough.

A lot of game used the Megadrive VDP to produce backgrounds and then the 32X to handle Sprites.

There are quite a few games where the MD base is still doing a lot of heavy lifting.

The 32x really is one of the most convoluted pieces of gaming hardware ever made. The 32x feeds into the Genesis, while the Genesis inputs back to the 32x via an external cable. Then the 32x outputs everything to the TV through its own video display processor. It must have driven quite a few developers mad.

And from what I understand, the Sega CD mostly just processed everything through its own 68000 then handed that off to the slower 68000 in the Genesis.

Trying to figure out how the 32x-CD process works much be pretty confusing to explain.

 

[Foxix Von]

The 32x really is one of the most convoluted pieces of gaming hardware ever made. The 32x feeds into the Genesis, while the Genesis inputs back to the 32x via an external cable. Then the 32x outputs everything to the TV through its own video display processor. It must have driven quite a few developers mad.

And from what I understand, the Sega CD mostly just processed everything through its own 68000 then handed that off to the slower 68000 in the Genesis.

Trying to figure out how the 32x-CD process works much be pretty confusing to explain.

And this is assuming that the 32x even works in the first place...

*grumble grumble*

 

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, Silpheed's backgrounds are indeed FMV, really impressive FMV. It's probably because they look so good that some people keep thinking that actually they're real-time, but of course they aren't; the Sega CD could never handle that kind of 3d geometry. Only the ships and such are actually being drawn. Still though, it's an amazing looking game. That and SoulStar are two of the most visually impressive games for the system.

In comparison, there's still some debate about how, exactly, Starblade for the Sega CD does its polygons... is it FMV, is it preset vertexes being sent to the system (because the game runs like a movie, and you have no control over either your ship, where you're looking, speed, or anything, you could preset everything like that). or what? It's tricky.

The 32x really is one of the most convoluted pieces of gaming hardware ever made. The 32x feeds into the Genesis, while the Genesis inputs back to the 32x via an external cable. Then the 32x outputs everything to the TV through its own video display processor. It must have driven quite a few developers mad.

And from what I understand, the Sega CD mostly just processed everything through its own 68000 then handed that off to the slower 68000 in the Genesis.

Trying to figure out how the 32x-CD process works much be pretty confusing to explain.

The issue with the Sega CD is that the bandwidth of the connection port between the Genesis and Sega CD is limited. As a result, Sega CD games actually have some graphical limitations cart games don't; for instance, animation may have to be cut back in Sega CD games versus the Genesis (that is, for games that push the hardware of course), because of the limited size of the connecting bus. I believe that this is one of the reasons why Pier Solar ended up being a cart game with an optional music-only CD, instead of having a Sega CD release -- the limited bus size would have been an issue.

As for the 32X, yeah, the main limitation is that the Genesis is still doing one of the graphical layers, so anything being done by the Genesis still has the Genesis's graphical limitations.

 

[M3d10n]

(In comparison, there's still some debate about how, exactly, Starblade for the Sega CD does its polygons... is it FMV, is it preset vertexes being sent to the system (because the game runs like a movie, and you have no control over either your ship, where you're looking, speed, or anything, you could preset everything like that). or what? It's tricky.

I thought Starblade was FMV because the enemies are draw using wireframe... but at some point large asteroids do occlude enemy ships and you can destroy parts of the large battleships in the background, so there is something else going there. BTW, the arcade is real-time: it uses Namco's first gen polygon arcade hardware.

I think the backgrounds must be some sort of 2D animation, either bitmap or 2D vector based (like Out of This World and Flashback), because they always run smoothly and the game only slowdowns when there's many big wireframe ships on-screen.

The issue with the Sega CD is that the bandwidth of the connection port between the Genesis and Sega CD is limited. As a result, Sega CD games actually have some graphical limitations cart games don't; for instance, animation may have to be cut back in Sega CD games versus the Genesis (that is, for games that push the hardware of course), because of the limited size of the connecting bus. I believe that this is one of the reasons why Pier Solar ended up being a cart game with an optional music-only CD, instead of having a Sega CD release -- the limited bus size would have been an issue.

I think the expansion port worked pretty much like a 2nd cartridge slot. However, anything rendered in the Sega CD RAM would need to be copied into the Genesis VRAM before being displayed and I don't think the Genesis could go beyond 20fps while doing this at full screen.

This means that anytime you see a Sega CD game running at 60fps, it means all graphics are being handled by the Genesis.

 

[MrCunningham]

I thought Starblade was FMV because the enemies are draw using wireframe... but at some point large asteroids do occlude enemy ships and you can destroy parts of the large battleships in the background, so there is something else going there. BTW, the arcade is real-time: it uses Namco's first gen polygon arcade hardware.

I think the backgrounds must be some sort of 2D animation, either bitmap or 2D vector based (like Out of This World and Flashback), because they always run smoothly and the game only slowdowns when there's many big wireframe ships on-screen.

I used to think that Starblade was entirely FMV too... but on further inspection that doesn't seem to be the case. The wireframe ships are real time... but the BG's? I'm not sure. Maybe it uses a mix of video and 2D animation rasterization? I dunno. Silpheeds BG's are pretty obviously FMV, but Starblades... I'm not so sure...

The Sega CD can do polygons, Stellar Fire s an example of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj4hcYK2S1Q

The polygon environments are pretty sparse. But the enemies and environmental objects are real time flat shaded polygons.

 

[Nerdstrom]

This section of the game was bliss http://youtube.com/#/watch?v=Go4tJXbtCgo&feature=relmfu

 

[Xander51]

I really loved this game. yeah it used pre-rendered video backdrops, but it was an enjoyable experience for what it was. The game did display real polygons, but only for the ships and a few scant other objects. But I don't imagine that the hardware could output a large number of polygons in real time. The music in this game is great as well... it doesn't use recorded redbook audio like most of the other Sega CD games, so the tracks are being generated from the actual Sega CD hardware using PCM. The music had a really bassy arcade sound to it.

The Sega CD was really much better at sprite scaling than anything else. Soul Star was the perfect example of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMjGyhDNiA&feature=player_detailpage#t=75s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IYUuk-DLl8&feature=player_detailpage#t=140s

The game almost could pass for a Sega System arcade game at times.

Wow! How have I never heard of this? Looks like an amazing successor to Galaxy Force II or something. I need to check it out!

My favorite thing about Silpheed was the constant radio chatter amongst ships. I was never very good at the game. A friend of mine had the PC port which got rid of most of the backgrounds, if I remember right. It came on floppies I think.

 

[Hawk269]

Core was the shit back in the day. All of their games introduced a lot of color and remembering back to them they all seem to be running in a higher resolution that most games at the time.

 

[kittens]

This game's name fascinated me as a kid. "What does it mean? How the hell do I say it?"

 

[vireland]

It was all FMV.

Music kicked ass though

And that was done with a sound system that fit in 8k of RAM. Was friends with the programmer who complained that the game's visuals took up all the RAM and he had to make the sound work in 8k. Crazy.

 

[vireland]

Game Arts was a technical powerhouse back in the day.

What happened to them?

The technical soul of the company, Takeshi Miyaji, the brother of the President/CEO, left around 2000 to start G-Mode. He recently died pretty young of a weird brain wasting disease.

 

[Xander51]

And that was done with a sound system that fit in 8k of RAM. Was friends with the programmer who complained that the game's visuals took up all the RAM and he had to make the sound work in 8k. Crazy.

Wow, that's awesome!

 

[A Black Falcon]

I used to think that Starblade was entirely FMV too... but on further inspection that doesn't seem to be the case. The wireframe ships are real time... but the BG's? I'm not sure. Maybe it uses a mix of video and 2D animation rasterization? I dunno. Silpheeds BG's are pretty obviously FMV, but Starblades... I'm not so sure...

The Sega CD can do polygons, Stellar Fire s an example of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj4hcYK2S1Q

The polygon environments are pretty sparse. But the enemies and environmental objects are real time flat shaded polygons.

For more on the Starblade issue, this thread might also be interesting: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...e-does-use-teh-FMV-for-its-polygons-or-not-yo

As for SCD 3D, yeah, it has some minimal 3d powers -- Stellar Fire, Racing Aces, the polygonal ships (your ship, the enemies, etc.) in Silpheed if they are indeed really polygonal -- but it wasn't all that good at it, as the limited geometry in Stellar Fire, abysmal framerate in Racing Aces, and questions over Silpheed (and limited size/geometry of the enemies, presuming that they really are 3d) all show. It was a system pretty good at scaling sprites, but not much for polygons... it's sad that so few games, Japanese ones particularly, actually push the sprite scaling thing.

I mean, seriously, apart from the Sonic CD bonus levels, Formula 1 World Championship: Beyond the Limit (quite visually impressive game), the not very good port of After Burner III, and Night Striker, Japan didn't do much at all with the scaler ability in the SCD... most of the SCD scaler stuff comes from the West, with Core, yes, being probably the most prominent at it.


And on that note, yeah, SoulStar is amazing, and amazing looking. The one thing to know though is that it's not just a rail shooter; half of the levels are that, but the other half are free-roam stuff, and the free-roam parts are really, really hard. It's a great, must-play game, but expect a steep challenge (unhelpfully, naturally it also has no saving, even though it's got infinite continues), and some confusion sometimes in the freeroam levels until you figure out what you're supposed to be doing, exactly.

 

[Dark Octave]

I think more games should use FMV for their backgrounds if they aren't interactive anyway. Fighting games, 2D shooters, platformers and beat em ups can benefit greatly from using this method in some form. Of course it wouldn't fit every game but it would help some.

 

[iidesuyo]

Even the naked Mega Drive could do polygons. Very choppy though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hNeidtXvc

That game was true 360°. Played the DOS version of LHX Attack Chopper a lot back in the days, the MD version was nearly unbearable.

 

[FLAguy954]

And that was done with a sound system that fit in 8k of RAM. Was friends with the programmer who complained that the game's visuals took up all the RAM and he had to make the sound work in 8k. Crazy.

Off-topic but I spoke to one of the guys who handled the genesis port of Mortal Kombat 2 and they also complained about tight memory constraints (though they stilll got some kickass music out of it via Dan Forden).

 

[MrCunningham]

And that was done with a sound system that fit in 8k of RAM. Was friends with the programmer who complained that the game's visuals took up all the RAM and he had to make the sound work in 8k. Crazy.

That's pretty awesome, actually. Impressive what he could do within those limitations.

Wow! How have I never heard of this? Looks like an amazing successor to Galaxy Force II or something. I need to check it out!

As pointed out, the game was developed by the British developer Core (They also created the original Tomb Raider series). The game actually feels like a mix of Galaxy Force and Star Fox. Actually, it has quite a few similarities with the cancelled Star Fox 2 (on SNES), but this game actually predates Star Fox 2. There are free roaming levels in this game where you control ground vehicles, branching paths that lead to different sets of challenge levels (kinda like Star Fox 64) and even an underwater level that is reminiscent of the one in Star Fox 64.

Some of the Free roaming levels in Soul Star can have a bit of a tricky learning curve. Also sometimes it can be a little hard to see what you are aiming at, since the ship gets in the way. But other then that the game is surprisingly solid. Probably one of the better 3D space shooters on the console.


Core did a lot of games for the Sega CD that used the scaling hardware....

They also did,

Battlecorps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ocl6SnuRvs , which is a mech game.

BC Racers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1jolV7IyHk , Mario Kart clone featuring characters from Chuck Rock. Not bad overall, but single player only.

AH-3 Thunderstrike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsbtU3dSmb8 , Helicopter shooter/ simulator. Still one of my favorites that they did.

Jaguar XJ220: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l5gvlXi4PU , alright racing game. But nothing too fancy.

Plus they also did a few 2D platformers for the console, like Chuck Rock and Son of Chuck Rock a few others games I forget. Even though Cores games could be a little hit and miss sometimes, they were probably one of the few developers that were actively making games for the Sega CD that actually took advantage of the hardware.

Even the naked Mega Drive could do polygons. Very choppy though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hNeidtXvc

That game was true 360°. Played the DOS version of LHX Attack Chopper a lot back in the days, the MD version was nearly unbearable.

Yeah, there were a few games like this on the Genesis/ Mega Drive:

F-22 Interceptor was another one that tried to use polygons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OsDhRfmOt8 It was slow and unplayable.

Kawasaki Superbike Challenge uses polygons for parts of the environments too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcTtW-qzC0 But the developer managed to get the game to run at a really good framerate here. It is actually quite impressive. There was also an SNES version of this one. But the SNES game mostly used sprites for the BG objects, while this version uses polygons. The same graphics engine was used for F1 racing on the Genesis as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrMMfjsYez0

The same developer that made both those games also made a Wolfenstein styled FPS for the Genesis called Bloodsport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTwq2i6Mq0c Probably the best looking FPS on the Genesis.

 

[Celine]

The Sega CD can do polygons, Stellar Fire s an example of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj4hcYK2S1Q

The polygon environments are pretty sparse. But the enemies and environmental objects are real time flat shaded polygons.

Stock Mega Drive can do polygons

Star Cruiser (1990)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5V85iPHc

Race Drivin (1993)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIi2hqQTaSI

 

[MrCunningham]

Stock Mega Drive can do polygons

Star Cruiser (1990)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5V85iPHc

Race Drivin (1993)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIi2hqQTaSI

I've never seen Star Cruiser before. But the opening intro is pretty impressive.

But yeah, there were quite a few games that used polygons on the Genesis. Look at my previous post, I was still update that when you posted this.

 

[Xander51]

MrCunningham, thanks for that detailed post, very interesting! I owned/played AH-3 Thunderstrike back in the day, very cool game but my younger self wasn't that great at it.

 

[A Black Falcon]

That's pretty awesome, actually. Impressive what he could do within those limitations.



As pointed out, the game was developed by the British developer Core (They also created the original Tomb Raider series). The game actually feels like a mix of Galaxy Force and Star Fox. Actually, it has quite a few similarities with the cancelled Star Fox 2 (on SNES), but this game actually predates Star Fox 2. There are free roaming levels in this game where you control ground vehicles, branching paths that lead to different sets of challenge levels (kinda like Star Fox 64) and even an underwater level that is reminiscent of the one in Star Fox 64.

Some of the Free roaming levels in Soul Star can have a bit of a tricky learning curve. Also sometimes it can be a little hard to see what you are aiming at, since the ship gets in the way. But other then that the game is surprisingly solid. Probably one of the better 3D space shooters on the console.

On the console? Hah, SoulStar is one of the best 3d space shooters of the generation. I wish that it had saving and that the freeroam levels were a little easier (like, about the challenge level of the rail shooter levels would be good), but still, amazing game.

Core did a lot of games for the Sega CD that used the scaling hardware....

They also did,

Battlecorps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ocl6SnuRvs , which is a mech game.

Outstanding game, and a close second to SoulStar... its only flaw is that it doesn't have saving, but other than that, Battlecorps is really good.

BC Racers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1jolV7IyHk , Mario Kart clone featuring characters from Chuck Rock. Not bad overall, but single player only.

Core weren't as good at racing games as they were at action, clearly; this game is okay, but not that great. Also it does have two player, but co-op only, where player 2 doesn't have much to do (attacks only). If you want splitscreen, you have to get the 3DO or 32X versions of the game.

AH-3 Thunderstrike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsbtU3dSmb8 , Helicopter shooter/ simulator. Still one of my favorites that they did.

This one was the first of their three scaler action games (Battlecorps was second, Soulstar third). It's a good game, and I like that it's the only one of the three that actually has saving (the other two should have it as well! Come on, you did it the first time...), but I don't find it as fun to play as the other two...

Jaguar XJ220: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l5gvlXi4PU , alright racing game. But nothing too fancy.

Yeah, it's alright, but not great. The Sega CD really is very weak at racing games; there are these two, the extremely ambitious but flawed Racing Aces, and the good but boring unless you like sims Formula 1 World Championship: Beyond the Limit, and that's about it...

Plus they also did a few 2D platformers for the console, like Chuck Rock and Son of Chuck Rock a few others games I forget. Even though Cores games could be a little hit and miss sometimes, they were probably one of the few developers that were actively making games for the Sega CD that actually took advantage of the hardware.

The two Chuck Rock games are just Genesis ports, though; they're the same as the Genesis versions, but with cartoon-animation cutscenes added at the beginning and the end. The cutscenes are cool, but the games are the same.

Core's one other SCD game was the platformer Wonder Dog, which feels like a cartridge port (it does little with the CD other than music), but isn't; the game was only released on Sega CD and Amiga.

Yeah, there were a few games like this on the Genesis/ Mega Drive:

F-22 Interceptor was another one that tried to use polygons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OsDhRfmOt8 It was slow and unplayable.

Kawasaki Superbike Challenge uses polygons for parts of the environments too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcTtW-qzC0 But the developer managed to get the game to run at a really good framerate here. It is actually quite impressive. There was also an SNES version of this one. But the SNES game mostly used sprites for the BG objects, while this version uses polygons. The same graphics engine was used for F1 racing on the Genesis as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrMMfjsYez0

The same developer that made both those games also made a Wolfenstein styled FPS for the Genesis called Bloodsport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTwq2i6Mq0c Probably the best looking FPS on the Genesis.

Yeah, the Genesis has more polygonal games than the SNES, I believe... SNES games were more likely to use Mode 7. There are a few polygonal 3d games on the SNES though, like Faceball and Race Drivin'.

 

[racerx77]

Yeah, it's alright, but not great. The Sega CD really is very weak at racing games; there are these two, the extremely ambitious but flawed Racing Aces, and the good but boring unless you like sims Formula 1 World Championship: Beyond the Limit, and that's about it...

Well, since you CAN select driving only, batman returns had (IMO) the best most arcade-like scaling and rotation on the system.
(and of special note, the buildings in the game are 3-D sprites, not flat cardboard cutouts).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYswuYaSP1w&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s

 

[A Black Falcon]

Well, sine you CAN select driving only, batman returns had (IMO) the best most arcade-like scaling and rotation on the system.
(and of special note, the buildings in the game are 3-D sprites, not flat cardboard cutouts).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYswuYaSP1w&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s

I wouldn't really call the Batman Returns and Adventures of Batman & Robin stuff a racing game, though... you are in a car, and there is a timer, but it's really an on-the-ground rail shooter, in gameplay. (Plus some levels are in the Batwing, too.) Those two games are great -- or rather, Batman Returns' racing levels are great, and all of Adventures of Batman & Robin is, and they do a great job of showing off what the Sega CD can do -- but racing games? Not really...

 

[racerx77]

I wouldn't really call the Batman Returns and Adventures of Batman & Robin stuff a racing game, though... you are in a car, and there is a timer, but it's really an on-the-ground rail shooter, in gameplay. (Plus some levels are in the Batwing, too.) Those two games are great -- or rather, Batman Returns' racing levels are great, and all of Adventures of Batman & Robin is, and they do a great job of showing off what the Sega CD can do -- but racing games? Not really...

Agreed. I was really just posting that in case anyone hadn't seen what the system COULD do if sega wasn't so FMV obsessed at that period.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Agreed. I was really just posting that in case anyone hadn't seen what the system COULD do if sega wasn't so FMV obsessed at that period.

Ah. Yeah, I'd put The Adventures of Batman & Robin right up there with SoulStar and Silpheed as games to show someone to show off what the Sega CD could really do.

 

[racerx77]

Ah. Yeah, I'd put The Adventures of Batman & Robin right up there with SoulStar and Silpheed as games to show someone to show off what the Sega CD could really do.

Shame we never got outrun, space harrier, super-hang on.. stuff like that.

 

[Slermy]

It would have been really neat to see what could have been done with the Genesis, 32x, and sega CD processors all working together.

Me too. Even today, I"d like to see someone try this. You'd probably have to be very creative though as I bet there's some serious lag trying to do anything on the 32X that relies on the Sega CD and vice-versa.

Stock Mega Drive can do polygons

Star Cruiser (1990)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5V85iPHc

Wow, I've never heard of that either. Looks like an early 3D Elder Scrolls?

Well, since you CAN select driving only, batman returns had (IMO) the best most arcade-like scaling and rotation on the system.
(and of special note, the buildings in the game are 3-D sprites, not flat cardboard cutouts).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYswuYaSP1w&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s

How do you play only the driving sequences? I might have to pick that up (looks easier than Batman & Robin).

 

[racerx77]

How do you play only the driving sequences? I might have to pick that up (looks easier than Batman & Robin).

It's in the options screen. You can select Driving only, platform only, or have both of them together.