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[iamaustrian]

People are complaining here that Sega continues to stick to mature Wii games?
you gotta be kidding me. why the hell are you not happy with that???

side-note: HotDs, Ghost Squad etc all sold more than they expected. Now you are saying that they should drop all M games because of one flopped superniche B/W game and a game they published and didn't even develop?

I, for one, welcome their decision for hells sake

 

[Danthrax]

which would be great if sega got fifty dollars a game and if negative cost budgets included marketing.

Don't publishers get about $35 per $50 game? So that would mean 300k * $35 = $10.5 million. That still probably covered the game's costs.

 

[vanguardian1]

Let's put some numbers here:

Conduit sell 300K * 50,00 = 15M

For reference, a wii game cost between 2 and 6M, no?

Red Steel 1, that was a expansive game, cost 13M.

So, yes, Conduit can make profit with a number like that.

It's *not* that simple BDGAME. There's a lot more factors involved, and developers don't see anywhere near that $50 per title.

 

[JudgeN]

I'm sure I don't understand how game development works. But wasn't The conduit self pay buy High Voltage until the very end when sega jumped on as publisher? So wouldn't that mean Sega barely paid for shit and 300k is great for them but what about High Voltage? I'm sure building that engine from scratch cost way more then that 300k is putting in their pockets.

And didn't we have this thread like a month back where they said they only shipped 300k WW? So that number has gone up yet?

 

[Frencherman]

This thread perfectly represents the attitude of the industry towards the wii....

 

[Jocchan]

Get that "< 1 Million = bomb" shit outta your heads people.

Yup, I remember when 300k was the threshold for success. Oh, good times.

 

[Flachmatuch]

I'm sure I don't understand how game development works. But wasn't The conduit self pay buy High Voltage until the very end when sega jumped on as publisher? So wouldn't that mean Sega barely paid for shit and 300k is great for them but what about High Voltage? I'm sure building that engine from scratch cost way more then that 300k is putting in their pockets.

Why are you sure about that? Last gen, 300k was often profitable for developers.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Don't publishers get about $35 per $50 game? So that would mean 300k * $35 = $10.5 million. That still probably covered the game's costs.

You think publishers get as much or more for selling a retail game than they do selling a digital game? Hahahaha.

 

[JudgeN]

Why are you sure about that? Last gen, 300k was often profitable for developers.

So your saying Wii games cost the same to make as PS2 games did 7 years ago? I was under the impression game development went up all around, but shit if Wii games cost as much as PS2 games did 7 years ago then cool.

 

[Flachmatuch]

So your saying Wii games cost the same to make as PS2 games did 7 years ago? I was under the impression game development went up all around, but shit if Wii games cost as much as PS2 games did 7 years ago then cool.

I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons for Nintendo to not release a HD console was to keep development costs down. So, yeah, maybe it's somewhat more expensive than PS2 development (in theory), but it's definitely much closer to those levels than HD stuff. I say "in theory" because 3rd party games close to the top tier PS2 stuff simply don't exist at all (well, except MH3).

 

[donny2112]

That's a totally bogus retroactive bet hedge on your part.

No. It's a correct statement. I expected well more than 300K to be shipped (obviously) at launch. I way over predicted it on pretty much all accounts. No bet. No hedging. At the time I said that even if they had shipped 500K at launch, there's no guarantee it would've even passed 200K. However, there's a guarantee it couldn't have passed 300K with a 150K shipment.

First, the Conduit didn't come close to selling out in any jurisdiction.

A much larger shipment means it's available in more jurisdictions.

Doubling the shipment wouldn't have doubled the sales.

Not necessarily, no.

but rather sales. It didn't sell 300k month one.

Duh? Even then, my prediction wasn't for 300K+ in month one. It was for 300K+ in June's NPD, which was about 2 weeks.

Edit:
Maybe you meant June's NPD with "month one." gerg tried to say that maybe I meant the real first "month" with my prediction before, and I wanted to be clear that was not the case.

 

[Sadist]

Overkill 2 Sega, now.

 

[SturokBGD]

Overkill 2 is all that needs to be done here.

 

[jufonuk]

Old news, but I'll repeat myself for the hell of it:

Panzer Dragoon Wii please.

Panzer Dragoon Saga Wii + Orta and all others , then a completly new version also

Panzer Dragoon and Zwei for the DS

 

[Dascu]

No no, Virtua Cop instead of Overkill 2 please!

 

[CultureClearance]

Don't publishers get about $35 per $50 game? So that would mean 300k * $35 = $10.5 million. That still probably covered the game's costs.

"probably covering cost" doesn't cut it. People invest in things to make money, not to given the money they gave back 3 years later. Would you put your money into something that gave you 2% interest after 3 years of sitting on it? Would you willfully put your money back into that gamble for their next project?
The percentage cost for marketing far exceeds the cost of production, especially for wii games (production lowers, marketing is the same) and especially when you do a worldwide release. More mag ads. More commercials. More languages. More yellow tape to deal with. Worldwide marketing is a very very expensive ordeal even if you were selling paper clips.

The Conduit is NOT a sign of health for the wii... much like Viva Pinata is not a sign of health for the 360. Neither game has ANY competition in its console of choice and yet does not sell enough to merit saturation. Both games should have sold gangbusters if there was any health for a fps's for the wii or kid-friendly games for the 360.

You're also mistaking publishers with Publishers + Developers. The ratio changes between who gets what depends greatly on the deal you make with the publisher. A relatively new company with no pedigree or "pull" won't be able to make a good of a deal as a famous, respected developer that has already sold "big hits."

 

[jufonuk]

No no, Virtua Cop instead of Overkill 2 please!

I remember that the developer expressed interest in doing a Virtua Cop in the Grindhouse style

 

[ksamedi]

"probably covering cost" doesn't cut it. People invest in things to make money, not to given the money they gave back 3 years later. Would you put your money into something that gave you 2% interest after 3 years of sitting on it? Would you willfully put your money back into that gamble for their next project?
The percentage cost for marketing far exceeds the cost of production, especially for wii games (production lowers, marketing is the same) and especially when you do a worldwide release. More mag ads. More commercials. More languages. More yellow tape to deal with. Worldwide marketing is a very very expensive ordeal even if you were selling paper clips.

The Conduit is NOT a sign of health for the wii... much like Viva Pinata is not a sign of health for the 360. Neither game has ANY competition in its console of choice and yet does not sell enough to merit saturation. Both games should have sold gangbusters if there was any health for a fps's for the wii or kid-friendly games for the 360.

Didnt Viva Pinata actually sell pretty good on the 360?

Besides that, The Conduit is surely not a sign of anything. Its a low budget fps. Its pretty compateble to Metroid even which did close to (if not exceeded) a million in the US alone. There is a market on Wii, it just needs big games.

 

[CultureClearance]

Didnt Viva Pinata actually sell pretty good on the 360?

Besides that, The Conduit is surely not a sign of anything. Its a low budget fps. Its pretty compateble to Metroid even which did close to (if not exceeded) a million in the US alone. There is a market on Wii, it just needs big games.

You're not listening. It's about saturation.

Viva Pinata sold fine, but it didn't sell well despite having NO competition.

I'll put it another way:

You got 1 gas station in a town. Its business is booming. So, what happens in two months? Now there's 2 gas stations in town. Why? Because the new gas station wants some of that first gas stations money. If they're still making a lot of money, you will see a third pop up.

Now you got another town with one gas station. It's surviving but not making a lot of money. Wait two months. How many gas stations are there now? Still 1. Why?

How many well developed casual kids games came out for the 360 since viva pinata? Gotta think hard to come up with one. I can't.

Wii Fit sold great. Now you're seeing imitators.

When Mario 64 hit the shelves and sold millions, imitators came out for the n64 for 4 years straight non-stop. Same for super mario and mario party.

Gta imitators? Didn't happen until GTA IV broke sales records.

Horror genre didn't hit its stride with oversaturation till resident evil sold millions. Hmm, that's odd. The horror genre wasn't invented by the re series, though.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I love it how people are acting like they know what they're talking about, when in actuality all SEGA did with The Conduit was just simply market the game. :lol

And people are debating whether it was a profitable venture for SEGA or not?

And people are comparing the budget of the game to Red Steel's?

:lol :lol Oh Gaf.

 

[donny2112]

Viva Pinata sold fine,

Not really. Bundles carried it to 1 million worldwide, and the sequel wasn't helped from that.

Gta imitators? Didn't happen until GTA IV broke sales records.

Saint's Row. Maybe you meant GTAIII? GTA 1 and 2 weren't like GTAIII, so there couldn't have been imitators before GTAIII.

Your general point is fine (i.e. it helps for there to be a driving game for that game type, so others can fit under its umbrella), but on Wii, that was CoD and sort of Metroid Prime 3. The userbase just doesn't seem to have migrated over to The Conduit en masse. That doesn't mean the userbase isn't on the Wii, though.

 

[ksamedi]

You're not listening. It's about saturation.

Viva Pinata sold fine, but it didn't sell well despite having NO competition.

I'll put it another way:

You got 1 gas station in a town. Its business is booming. So, what happens in two months? Now there's 2 gas stations in town. Why? Because the new gas station wants some of that first gas stations money. If they're still making a lot of money, you will see a third pop up.

Now you got another town with one gas station. It's surviving but not making a lot of money. Wait two months. How many gas stations are there now? Still 1. Why?

How many well developed casual kids games came out for the 360 since viva pinata? Gotta think hard to come up with one. I can't.

Wii Fit sold great. Now you're seeing imitators.

When Mario 64 hit the shelves and sold millions, imitators came out for the n64 for 4 years straight non-stop. Same for super mario and mario party.

Gta imitators? Didn't happen until GTA IV broke sales records.

Horror genre didn't hit its stride with oversaturation till resident evil sold millions. Hmm, that's odd. The horror genre wasn't invented by the re series, though.

Well you need leader software to create imitators. Viva Pinata is not leader software, the Conduit is not leader software. These games can be of any genre or any rating. The Wii never had its big game in the FPS genre, Nintendo doesn't make those, neither do third parties want to take a big risk yet.

 

[donny2112]

Nintendo doesn't make those,

I really hope that Retro's new game is a really good FPS IP. They seem to have the tech and FPS experience (prior to MP and somewhat with MP) to maybe make a good one.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

No no, Virtua Cop instead of Overkill 2 please!

No.

 

[ksamedi]

I really hope that Retro's new game is a really good FPS IP. They seem to have the tech and FPS experience (prior to MP and somewhat with MP) to maybe make a good one.

Yeah they have the experience. I guess Nintendo has to show every publisher how to make a successful game in every genre before third parties start to take risks on the Wii. Its a sad situation, especially considering the Wii could have been the DS of the consoles.

 

[Strawman]

This is great for Wii owners but if the "failure" of Madworld doesnt suggest that mature games on the Wii will bomb how about they release yakuza 3 in the west then as surely the "failure" of 1 and 2 on the PS2 doesnt mean that number 3 on the PS3 will too!

 

[Amalthea]

Overkill 2 please and a classic Panzer Dragoon with M+ controls would be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[donny2112]

I guess Nintendo has to show every publisher how to make a successful game in every genre before third parties start to take risks on the Wii.

I'm pretty sure that's why they bought Monolith Software (for traditional console RPGs), too. With N64, Nintendo had RARE for FPSs. With GameCube, Nintendo expected to have RARE for FPSs, but ended up utilizing Retro for FPAs. Maybe now they're fully moving Retro to be their internal FPS studio.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

"probably covering cost" doesn't cut it. People invest in things to make money, not to given the money they gave back 3 years later. Would you put your money into something that gave you 2% interest after 3 years of sitting on it? Would you willfully put your money back into that gamble for their next project?
The percentage cost for marketing far exceeds the cost of production, especially for wii games (production lowers, marketing is the same) and especially when you do a worldwide release. More mag ads. More commercials. More languages. More yellow tape to deal with. Worldwide marketing is a very very expensive ordeal even if you were selling paper clips.

The Conduit is NOT a sign of health for the wii... much like Viva Pinata is not a sign of health for the 360. Neither game has ANY competition in its console of choice and yet does not sell enough to merit saturation. Both games should have sold gangbusters if there was any health for a fps's for the wii or kid-friendly games for the 360.

You're also mistaking publishers with Publishers + Developers. The ratio changes between who gets what depends greatly on the deal you make with the publisher. A relatively new company with no pedigree or "pull" won't be able to make a good of a deal as a famous, respected developer that has already sold "big hits."

*Looks over at copy of WaW Wii*

Fascinating.

 

[pvpness]

*Looks over at copy of WaW Wii*

Fascinating.

Doesn't count because... uh... ummmm... what's that over there! *hides*

 

[Danthrax]

"probably covering cost" doesn't cut it. People invest in things to make money, not to given the money they gave back 3 years later. Would you put your money into something that gave you 2% interest after 3 years of sitting on it? Would you willfully put your money back into that gamble for their next project?
The percentage cost for marketing far exceeds the cost of production, especially for wii games (production lowers, marketing is the same) and especially when you do a worldwide release. More mag ads. More commercials. More languages. More yellow tape to deal with. Worldwide marketing is a very very expensive ordeal even if you were selling paper clips.

The Conduit is NOT a sign of health for the wii... much like Viva Pinata is not a sign of health for the 360. Neither game has ANY competition in its console of choice and yet does not sell enough to merit saturation. Both games should have sold gangbusters if there was any health for a fps's for the wii or kid-friendly games for the 360.

You're also mistaking publishers with Publishers + Developers. The ratio changes between who gets what depends greatly on the deal you make with the publisher. A relatively new company with no pedigree or "pull" won't be able to make a good of a deal as a famous, respected developer that has already sold "big hits."

Are you really going to assume they didn't make a profit off $10.5 million in sales?

It's all speculation, anyway. The game could have cost $2 million or $20 million to produce — we just don't know. But common sense says it probably didn't cost much to make and over $10 million would be enough to make them a little money.

 

[ZAK]

*Looks over at copy of WaW Wii*

Fascinating.

That's based on a popular game from a well-established franchise. Obviously that made people think it was good, maybe mistaking it for one of the superior versions. Get back to me when you have a game nobody's ever heard of for an example.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

1st thread:

Wii's next test: Dead Space Extraction ( 1 2 3 4 )

GAF:
"Fuck you EA! Your game isn't going to sale because its on-rails, not because is a good/hardcore/mature game.
Make good games on the Wii and I will buy"

2nd thread:

SEGA: Sticking to Mature Wii Games

GAF:
"SEGA is stupid, why are they making good/hardcore/mature game on the Wii if they are not going to sell.
Make good games for the HD consoles instead"

Makes sense.... wait a minute!

Me to SEGA:

At least they seem to say intelligent things. Keep the good games coming SEGA.

 

[vanguardian1]

Btw, from what I remember, the graphics engine that The Conduit uses was a heavily upgraded ps2 graphics engine, not a built-from-scratch Wii engine.

 

[jrricky]

1st thread:

GAF:
"Fuck you EA! Your game isn't going to sale because its on-rails, not because is a good/hardcore/mature game.
Make good games on the Wii and I will buy"

2nd thread:

GAF:
"SEGA is stupid, why are they making good/hardcore/mature game on the Wii if they are not going to sell.
Make good games for the HD consoles instead"

Makes sense.... wait a minute!

Me to SEGA:

At least they seem to say intelligent things. Keep the good games coming SEGA.

Brilliant! :lol

 

[the thoroughbred]

In before..

Sega do what Nintendon't. scans through thread to see if too late

 

[Sadist]

No no, Virtua Cop instead of Overkill 2 please!

I'd settle for that as well. More arcade goodness is good in my book.

 

[dacuk]

Where is my Streets of Rage 4?

 

[Kandinsky]

Overkill 2 is all that needs to be done here.

Oh god yes, Overkill is my Goty so far, so awesome.

 

[AceBandage]

Btw, from what I remember, the graphics engine that The Conduit uses was a heavily upgraded ps2 graphics engine, not a built-from-scratch Wii engine.

And it was developed through their license games.
It basically cost them nothing by the time they got to The Conduit.
I'm sure the biggest chunk of their budget was for audio (what with hiring big named voices and musicians).

 

[Razien]

Btw, from what I remember, the graphics engine that The Conduit uses was a heavily upgraded ps2 graphics engine, not a built-from-scratch Wii engine.

Just like UE3 is UE2 heavily upgraded. That means nothing.

 

[devilhawk]

The Conduit is NOT a sign of health for the wii... much like Viva Pinata is not a sign of health for the 360. Neither game has ANY competition in its console of choice and yet does not sell enough to merit saturation. Both games should have sold gangbusters if there was any health for a fps's for the wii or kid-friendly games for the 360.

That's nice and all but you forgot one major point of contention. Quality.

Lack of competition doesn't excuse mediocrity. These threads just go in circles. You say the Wii sucks because it doesn't sell core games. I say it doesn't sell because the core game's quality sucks. I am either right or we are both right.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Jeez, we can't even say something nice about Sega when they say they're sticking to a strategy we should be happy about.

 

[twinturbo2]

People are complaining here that Sega continues to stick to mature Wii games?
you gotta be kidding me. why the hell are you not happy with that???

side-note: HotDs, Ghost Squad etc all sold more than they expected. Now you are saying that they should drop all M games because of one flopped superniche B/W game and a game they published and didn't even develop?

I, for one, welcome their decision for hells sake

All I need is a Virtua Cop compilation with Confidential Mission thrown in for the hell of it.

 

[apujanata]

Are you really going to assume they didn't make a profit off $10.5 million in sales?

It's all speculation, anyway. The game could have cost $2 million or $20 million to produce — we just don't know. But common sense says it probably didn't cost much to make and over $10 million would be enough to make them a little money.

I have a really, really hard time believing that The Conduit cost $2 Million to make. Why ? Because it was almost completed BEFORE Sega agree to became publisher, which means that HVS self-fund develop it without any down payment / seed money from publisher. I have a hard time believing that HVS have 2 Million $ on the bank that they use to self-fund develop The Conduit.

My speculationn : HVS are paid a certain amount of money by Sega, but it is probably only $1 Million, with promises of additional $ once the games sold a certain # (like needing a second shipment out of the 150K first shipment value I remember seeing somewhere in the net).

 

[vanguardian1]

Just like UE3 is UE2 heavily upgraded. That means nothing.

UE2 to UE2.5 would be a better comparison. -_-;; UT3 is, in comparison, a drastic overhaul.

 

[carlo6529]

That's based on a popular game from a well-established franchise. Obviously that made people think it was good, maybe mistaking it for one of the superior versions. Get back to me when you have a game nobody's ever heard of for an example.

The point is, what was said is there is no healthy market for fps on the the Wii; I don't care how many times you deny it, try to spin it, or how many times you move the goal post, the fact is WAW Wii sales disproves this statement.

If you want your statement to be valid, then what should of been said is, there is no healthy market for new ip fps on the Wii, only established ones.

At which point I would say to you, find me another new I.P. on another console with a similar type of developer which produced a game with similar size budget/profit ratio.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The point is, what was said is there is no healthy market for fps on the the Wii; I don't care how many times you deny it, try to spin it, or how many times you move the goal post, the fact is WAW Wii sales disproves this statement.

If you want your statement to be valid, then what should of been said is, there is no healthy market for new ip fps on the Wii, only established ones.

At which point I would say to you, find me another new I.P. on another console with a similar type of developer which produced a game with similar size budget/profit ratio.

how much did EDF sell

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Oh god yes, Overkill is my Goty so far, so awesome.

That's my line.

 

[carlo6529]

how much did EDF sell

Are you talking about Earth Defence Force? If so, I'm not sure. All I can find is some old JP numbers which are much lower then the Conduit shipments.