SlipperySlope
Banned
Chittagong said:
If the goal is to make the company lose money, wouldn't it be wiser not to buy the product and have it continue to sit on the shelf?
Eh, just a thought.
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Semiaccurate.com: Nvidia is screwed. Again. (Fermi related)
- Thread starter tahrikmili
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If the goal is to make the company lose money, wouldn't it be wiser not to buy the product and have it continue to sit on the shelf?
Eh, just a thought.
If Fermi is still in single-digit yields, it's going to cost way too much and have a tiny profit margin if it is coming out in a month or two. It probably won't be out until summer, at which point ATI can announce their HD6000 series for an August release. nVidia is basically skipping a generation.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Exactly. The prices on 5xxx prices aren't going to go down if there's no competition, and there's no reason to roll out the next series yet either.Lonely1 said:
Minsc
Gold Member
SapientWolf said:
Yup, they've come down slightly, but are still about 10% over MSRP. Shame. Hopefully things pick up soon, either in large sales due to people not wanting to wait (which may cause a slight decrease) or ideally, through nVidia providing more competition.
nVidia's still got quite the lead, so this is good in a way for ATI, but I really have been hoping to see Fermi benchmarks and find out what it's pricing is going to be.
rocK` said:
Nope, that's not the article is talking about.
All semiconductor electronics (CPU, GPU, whatever) are built in wafers. Once the wafer is rolled out, is cut into individual silicon and tested to see if they're viable for production.
The problem that's being reported about is that very few units are good enough to be released to the market. Basically when a finished wafer of the new Fermi GPUs are tested, very few are "error free". A low yield (the article says than less than 10% are good) means high prices and very few units in the market. Actually they're losing money with every Fermi GPU built.
Btw, the last paragraph in the OP is pure gratuitous hate.
BravoSuperStar
Member
Read this a few days ago. Taking it with a grain of salt considering the author. The "Laughabee" comment was funny though.
Lostconfused
Member
Bad news for nvidia. But is there really a rush to grab a hold of a DX11 card? I thought the main reason the latest ATI card were selling well was because of their performance for the price.
Minsc
Gold Member
BravoSuperStar said:
Despite people saying he's one of the most accurate (and most horribly biased) news sources for rumors in the past year, I agree, taking it with a grain of salt is probably best. I mean no matter what your take, at worst you have to wait a little under two months to find out for sure one way or the other, so it's just a matter of weeks before we know what's going on for real.
DX11 is supposed to get a small frame rate increase over DX10 I believe (if nothing else), but I don't think there's ever been a DX that was relevant before it's successor came out.
I've never had any BSODs or gray screens or icon problems or anything with my 5870, I'd probably try to RMA the card if I had such troubles though.
Lostconfused said:
Well yes, the performance are really impressive for the price.
I bought a 5870 3 months ago (togheter with an i5 750), and i have never been happier. Bought it for the performance/price, not the DX11, same as when ive got the 8800 in 2007. It runs battlefield bad company 2 smooth as butter at 1920x1200, 8x adaptive multisample AA, 16 aniso
fizzelopeguss
Banned
I'd rather stick clothing pegs on my nuts before i buy another ATi card.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Son of Godzilla said:
Hundreds of millions of devices on a single chip, i'm amazed these thing get produced at a consumer level at all.
BravoSuperStar
Member
Minsc said:
Yeah I think there is enough technical info and the fact the chip has been delayed to merit some credibility. I would hate to see nvidia end up in the worst case scenario presented in the article. And I haven't had any issues with my 5850 either or it would have been returned.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Burger said:
Ugh the 8600M. The company I work for has many, many failed laptops because of this chipset.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
That's a pretty strange shopping ritual. But I guess what you do in your free time is your own business.fizzelopeguss said:
fizzelopeguss said:
Your narrow mind means you miss out.
Both Nvidia and ATI have fucked up BIG time in the past, there are both as capable of selling you a lemon as each other....... My laptop has a 8600M GT for instance and that fucking thing throttles back to fuck all mhz as soon as I even think about clicking on a game with its fan spinning at 100% ALL THE TIME.
Dell and Nvidia deny all problems though the pack of twats.
Technosteve
Banned
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=8
Anand on defect rates of large chips vs defect rates of small chips. nvidia making a death star sized chip amd making slightly less large death star
Anand on defect rates of large chips vs defect rates of small chips. nvidia making a death star sized chip amd making slightly less large death star
The first Fermi products will launch April 31.
http://www.nordichardware.com/en/co...geforce-gtx-480-in-stock-in-may-at-best-.html
http://www.nordichardware.com/en/co...geforce-gtx-480-in-stock-in-may-at-best-.html
tahrikmili
Member
Vorador said:
WTH, expressing my bias and stating that I never had any faith in nVidia's vision for the Fermi architecture is 'gratuitous hate'? What have I done, buried nVidia fans alive?
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I'm just waiting for Nvidia to hit the market to see how much the 5850 will drop in price. At the moment, I won't pay that much for a graphics card (since £250 is about the price of a console, and I still need a new mobo and processor), so I'm looking at getting a 5770. I'd love a price war to sway me towards the 5850 for a clear performance increase, though!
... Unless the Nvidia cards show better performance for less and then I'll have to re-evaluate. I have absolutely no preference whatsoever.
... Unless the Nvidia cards show better performance for less and then I'll have to re-evaluate. I have absolutely no preference whatsoever.
automagnus
Member
pj said:
Charlie gets a Monday quarterback perspective on things. It's a lot easier point out these flaws after they happen instead of predicting them months in advance. ATI is just better managed to have seen that such large die sizes are not viable and/or they had some collaboration from their AMD co-workers.
It really all boils down to a risk ATI took several years ago when they decided to design the 4000 series with a yet to be manufactured 256bit GDDR3 memory, because they believed a large die size was no viable. This allowed them to make a smaller GPU logic chip since GDDR3 ram needs less physical connections than the old types of memory. NVIDIA decided not to take such a risk and for forced into a larger design so they must have assumed that either ATI was making the same choice or that they were gonna take advantage of the large chip size since they were forced to use it anyway. There are of course other blunders committed by Nvidia that could have mitigated the mess they are in with the GT2XX series but the big die size is the real killer in my opinion.
Also Nvidia handled the bump issue horribly.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
kitch9 said:
Currently i ain't missing out on shit, is fermi is complete ass then i might have to wait for AMD to drop the price of their current cards.
bee
Member
tahrikmili
Member
Not really.. they'll announce something but how many they will produce will not be debated.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Minsc said:
Not really, the only graphics card brand that holds a special place in my heart is voodoo.
If i spend £200+ on any graphics card it has to have nhancer, if the 5850 drops to £150 i'll seriously consider picking one up.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
fizzelopeguss said:
I feel the same way.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Minsc said:
I'm like that, i seem to rub people the wrong way.
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
As has been stated before a few posts up, here is anandtech's showing of defects in fabrication.
Example of 7 defects on a wafer using a smaller die (ex R870)
Example of 7 defects on a wafer using a large die (ex fermi)
As you can see, each defect has a higher chance of fucking an entire chip on fermi due to it's sheer size. That's not to say ATi is sailing smoothly either, they just have a smaller chip and can yield better by default.
Taking into account TSMC having tons of yield issues as it is (even if they say it's much better...), and nVidia basically having a completely new unproven architecture using the problematic 40nm process, and you have this shit scenario they're in now.
Anyway, you guys should really read that whole anandtech article, it's a fantastic read and really shows how ATi pulled off some amazing feats these past 2 product cycles. From both a marketing, and product point perspective.
The R870 Story: AMD Showing up to the Fight
Example of 7 defects on a wafer using a smaller die (ex R870)
Example of 7 defects on a wafer using a large die (ex fermi)
As you can see, each defect has a higher chance of fucking an entire chip on fermi due to it's sheer size. That's not to say ATi is sailing smoothly either, they just have a smaller chip and can yield better by default.
Taking into account TSMC having tons of yield issues as it is (even if they say it's much better...), and nVidia basically having a completely new unproven architecture using the problematic 40nm process, and you have this shit scenario they're in now.
Anyway, you guys should really read that whole anandtech article, it's a fantastic read and really shows how ATi pulled off some amazing feats these past 2 product cycles. From both a marketing, and product point perspective.
The R870 Story: AMD Showing up to the Fight
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Dammit, I want them to release this soon to lower the blasted 5xxx series prices. Weakened competition sucks.
Guys, chill. Fermi's fine. It'll be on the market soon enough.
and for the bump crack bashing, I do believe nvidia set aside 400m purely for this purpose to fix anyone's laptop that's hit with this problem.
AFAIK, none of the macs that cost 2000$ (other than air) has purely 9400m only....
Also, great way at blaming the apple tax on the chipset lol
and for the bump crack bashing, I do believe nvidia set aside 400m purely for this purpose to fix anyone's laptop that's hit with this problem.
Minsc said:
AFAIK, none of the macs that cost 2000$ (other than air) has purely 9400m only....
Also, great way at blaming the apple tax on the chipset lol
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I don't know. I find Fermi's focus on GPGPU computing appealing personally. What I don't find appealing is what will be the card's size and cost, forcing me to wait for a low-end/mid-range model.tahrikmili said:
Rabid Wolverine
Member
nacire said:
I had these but they seem to have disapeared now. Only had a black screen last week and no greys which were pretty constant idle and gameplay. It was pretty annoying.
Do a complete driver uninstall then reboot, and then use Driver Sweeper, reboot again and install Catalyst 10.2.
tahrikmili
Member
Apparently Charlie got his hands on some benchmark figures: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/20/semiaccurate-gets-some-gtx480-scores/
If true, nVidia is fucked.
If true, nVidia is fucked.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
I'm not really concerned about those idles. It's the load temperature that matters. Before I put an aftermarket cooler on my 4890, it idled at around 64C on the 2D clock and only hit about 78C on a full 3D load. I bet it'll be fine, Nvidia can't release a product that literally cooks itself - and besides, I bet an Accelero could fit it anyway.
Nope. The opposite actually. With a larger die, chances of a single defect ruining one die decrease (because the chance that multiple defects fall into the same [already ruined] die increase).Tenacious-V said:
But, of course, a larger die is more expensive, which makes the individual defect more expensive, too. A large shot die wastes a larger proportion of the overall wafer space than a small one.
... I thought most modern logic designs above a certain size include redundancy (which makes this way more complicated), but perhaps not in this case.
Minsc
Gold Member
I NEED SCISSORS said:
Why not though? It's better for hardware to idle at around the 30C range or less, it keeps your whole case cooler and thus quieter as less active cooling is needed.
tahrikmili said:
Well, I still think it will sell out. There's got to be enough nVidia die-hards (especially those who want faster 3DVision) that will buy it at any price, so if you really want it, do it before it starts selling for over $800 because it's unavailable everywhere.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Looks like i'll have to live without nhancer for two years. :lol
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