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[farnham]

My view is more on the long term affect and not the short term.

long term effect of rape : you got raped but you may recover from the damage
long term effect of murder : you are dead.

so if you are saying that the long term effect of rape is worse then murder. you are saying that recovery from rape is impossible and that every rape victim is better off dead?

No, no matter whether you believe in an afterlife or not, you don't lose control forever. If there's an afterlife, you're free to do as you are in the afterlife. If there isn't, the murderer can't control a dead person.

well obviously if you are dead you cant control yourself either.
what is the condition to control yourself.? yup you have to live.

if you are raped you can gain control over yourself in time. if you get murdered its finito

you dont gain or maintain control if you are dead. you loose it anyway just that you loose it forever. also you can "control" dead people. ever heard of necrophilia? or sick ritual shit people do with corpses

 

[Arment]

Excuse me for not having an absurd fear of death. Some people would rather someone take control of them than die. Others would rather die than have that control stripped from them.

You would rather die than 'lose control' for a indefinite period of time? It's really hard to take that serious.

 

[iNancy]

long term effect of rape : you got raped but you may recover from the damage
long term effect of murder : you are dead.

so if you are saying that the long term effect of rape is worse then murder. you are saying that recovery from rape is impossible and that every rape victim is better off dead?

Exactly, the victim is dead. The victim is unable to feel or think, which is what I said previously.
A rape victim, "may" recover but it will always be something the victim will have to deal with.

 

[farnham]

Exactly, the victim is dead. The victim is unable to feel or think, which is what I said previously.
A rape victim, "may" recover but it will always be something the victim will have to deal with.

so what ? at least there is a possibility that the victim recovers while death is not a status you can recover from.

by your logic theft or robbery is a worse crime then murder because the victim will suffer financial losses that they "may" recover from but that will always be a loss that the victim has to deal with

 

[Lafiel]

so what ? at least there is a possibility that the victim recovers while death is not a status you can recover from.

by your logic theft or robbery is a worse crime then murder because the victim will suffer financial losses that they "may" recover from but that will always be a loss that the victim has to deal with

Like having "financial looses" is the same feeling you get, when you are raped.:lol

 

[RevenantKioku]

Everyone's trying to compare using things that have no relevance to each other. This is a conversational nightmare.

To throw another wrench into the pigshit: How many unwanted pregnancies have been caused by murder?

 

[Monocle]

Murder is worse in theory because it puts a permanent end to the victim's consciousness and identity, right? Then again, rape is a simultaneous physical and mental torture of such severity that it can produce much the same effect as murder by so traumatizing the victim that his or her personality is all but destroyed. There's also the tricky business of unwanted pregnancy and the possibility of the abused turning into an abuser in, for example, domestic life. The best answer I can offer is that the heinousness of the crime depends on context.

Which is worse? A guard in a POW camp who, in taking pity on a captured soldier soon to be tortured to death, spares him with a shot to the head, or a very drunk frat boy that takes advantage of an equally drunk co-ed whose suffering, though not insignificant, may be lessened by her inability to relive the event with perfect clarity?

 

[farnham]

Like having "financial looses" is the same feeling you get, when you are raped.:lol

uh depends on the situation. if you are living in a poor country and got robbed of everything you have then it could be worse then getting raped.

 

[BeEatNU]

long term effect of rape : you got raped but you may recover from the damage
long term effect of murder : you are dead.

exactly, don't get me wrong both is pretty bad but murder=dead=worst

 

[Shorty]

murder = someone dies + someone goes to jail
rape = 2 people have sex

I like rape better

 

[How About No]

And that's where you're still being quite idiotic... I believe there's a phrase "Give me liberty or give me death." That carries a very strong connotation. One would rather be dead than without control.

Now, about rape, rape is not about sex. It's about control. Forced usurpation of one's personal liberty, that's what rape is about. Not only is control usurped, the body is also violated in various ways. Not too mention, they will likely suffer much brutality (broken bones, bruised body, loss of fertility, and even internal bleeding.)

So, to me, it's far worse to lose control to some other person than it is to die. I'd rather die than have someone take control of me in that manner.

But you won't be losing control forever (well, physically anyway). You will not be without liberty for the rest of your life, and can mentally recover.

Though there are some other "losses of control" that I've thought about, like
*Life in Turkish prison: I can always hope there'll be a kickass escape or something
*Paralyzation: At least I can watch movies and write stories (with the help of a ghost writer)
*indefinite coma: Uh...yeah...tough one :x

So, I would rather be any of these than dead. I dunno about you, but I still have a list of things I want to do before I die.

 

[mugurumakensei]

But you won't be losing control forever (well, physically anyway). You will not be without liberty for the rest of your life, and can mentally recover.

Though there are some other "losses of control" that I've thought about, like
*Life in Turkish prison: I can always hope there'll be a kickass escape or something
*Paralyzation: At least I can watch movies and write stories (with the help of a ghost writer)
*indefinite coma: Uh...yeah...tough one :x
.

See, I'd rather be dead than any of those. In fact, I already have a living will that states I do not want to be hooked up to life support if I'm fatally injured.

 

[Monocle]

murder = someone dies + someone goes to jail
rape = 2 people have sex

I like rape better

No, in rape one person has sex. The other experiences unspeakable violation, sometimes with a beating just to sweeten the deal. Also, you must be all kinds of naive not to consider unpunished murders.

 

[Pandaman]

rape victims routinely plead for freedom before death, thus i conclude that rape is preferable to death.

 

[How About No]

rape victims routinely plead for freedom before death, thus i conclude that rape is preferable to death.

I do actually believe there was an argument about death or a life of suffering in one Franken Fran chapter. Like, right before I threw up for the umpteenth time :x

Life-er won.

 

[jorma]

I'm seriously stunned that people actually argue that rape is worse. I'm starting to think that it has to be connected with the "sex is bad, violence is good" attitude we get from US tv.

 

[JumpJeff84]

I think the real question here is do you rape then murder, or murder then rape?

 

[usea]

I'm seriously stunned that people actually argue that rape is worse. I'm starting to think that it has to be connected with the "sex is bad, violence is good" attitude we get from US tv.

I think a contributing factor is that many of them probably feel a raped woman is "ruined goods". If only she was murdered, then her suffering would be brief. But being raped instead, she has to suffer for the rest of her life with no possibility of happiness. And more importantly, no possibility of usefulness. She's better off dead. Her vagina will probably rot off or somesuch.

Surely the well-reasoned view.

Although it may be a shocking thing for some to read: it IS possible to overstate the dreadfulness of sex crimes. It's hard, but gaf never disappoints.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I think a contributing factor is that many of them probably feel a raped woman is "ruined goods". If only she was murdered, then her suffering would be brief. But being raped instead, she has to suffer for the rest of her life with no possibility of happiness. And more importantly, no possibility of usefulness. She's better off dead. Her vagina will probably rot off or somesuch.

Surely the well-reasoned view.

Wow, you're an ass.

 

[Archaix]

I'm seriously stunned that people actually argue that rape is worse. I'm starting to think that it has to be connected with the "sex is bad, violence is good" attitude we get from US tv.

I certainly understand the argument. While I don't think it's possible to say that one is "worse" than the other, to a dead person the murder doesn't matter. They never have to live with the memory of what happened, the emotional damage done. Somebody who is murdered is gone. From their perspective...well, they don't have a perspective any more. Somebody who is raped, on the other hand, does have that memory. This alone provides at least one reason why somebody would take that position.

Again, though, I think it's a fairly absurd discussion to have. If we're judging it based on how we see the crimes as a society, I think that there are cases where a rapist should be held to the same penalty as a murderer. That doesn't make one worse than the other, though. They are both acts of indescribable depravity.

 

[sonikokaruto]

wow, i would have loved to be here and be post 2 or 3 and add "or circumcise your baby"

 

[Truant]

Murder.

 

[BobbyRobby]

murder is exponentially worse

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Wow, you're an ass.

Or just completely psychotic.:lol

How the hell did they get any of that from the thread?

 

[jorma]

Or just completely psychotic.:lol

How the hell did they get any of that from the thread?

he read it?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

he read it?

So...

You're a lunatic too then?

It's one thing to feel that a traumatic experience is worse then death, but to take from that opinion bullshit about sullied women being better dead makes you a fucking psychotic.

 

[Tonza]

I think it really depends on the 'case'.

Is the murder a quick one or a slow painful death? What about the rape?

Atleast I can't give a definite answer to which is worse... and yeah, I don't want to think about this anymore.

 

[usea]

So...

You're a lunatic too then?

It's one thing to feel that a traumatic experience is worse then death, but to take from that opinion bullshit about sullied women being better dead makes you a fucking psychotic.

I thought I added enough to make it clear I was mostly exaggerating. The sarcastic bit didn't send it over the top? I'm sorry. I was trying to mock the absurdity of the opposing view. The nature of the thread does not really call for rational discussion; as RevenantDickbag said earlier, it's a conversational nightmare.

My original post (#3) still stands. If a person feels rape is worse because surviving torture is a fate worse than death, then that person also must believe death would be an improvement for any rape victim. They must also believe that killing a rape victim would be an act of compassion.

That is an absurd position worthy of mocking. Although I'm sorry to say my attempt at it was poor.

 

[Haly]

I don't understand the murder is permanent, and thus worse argument actually.

The victim doesn't care once they're dead. The burden is on the family members/children. Rape will effect them as well AND the victim will have to deal with any lasting trauma for the rest of his/her life.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I thought I added enough to make it clear I was mostly exaggerating. The sarcastic bit didn't send it over the top? I'm sorry. I was trying to mock the absurdity of the opposing view. The nature of the thread does not really call for rational discussion; as RevenantDickbag said earlier, it's a conversational nightmare.

My original post (#3) still stands. If a person feels rape is worse because surviving torture is a fate worse than death, then that person also must believe death would be an improvement for any rape victim. They must also believe that killing a rape victim would be an act of compassion.

That is an absurd position worthy of mocking. Although I'm sorry to say my attempt at it was poor.

Well at least I know you're not crazy.:lol

I definitely don't agree with the logical jumps it would take to get to that point. I'd personally rather be killed, but I have been molested... and that has left me with years of issues I'm still sorting out. If I'd have been killed... I wouldn't really care. I'd be dead.

That seems to be the line of thought others on the opposing viewpoint have taken. Not worthy of mockery if you ask me.

At least you're not crazy, just extremely intolerant of other viewpoints. It happens. Humans for being bipedal are extremely immovable.

 

[usea]

I don't understand the murder is permanent, and thus worse argument actually.

The victim doesn't care once they're dead. The burden is on the family members/children. Rape will effect them as well AND the victim will have to deal with any lasting trauma for the rest of his/her life.

The only downside of murder is the family's burden? Should it be OK to kill abandoned children, or the homeless?

So you're saying the effects on the families come up even. But a rape survivor's trauma stays with them, and therefore rape wins 2:1 right? That is saying that the overall value of a rape survivors life post-rape is a negative. You're saying that if they had been murdered their life would be neutral, but since they were raped their remaining life is negative. Not worth living.

If I'm understanding you correctly (apologies if not), you're seriously undervaluing the life of a rape survivor. If living with being raped is not a life worth living, why don't more rape survivors commit suicide? How come many live to be very happy, despite what was done to them?

I definitely don't agree with the logical jumps it would take to get to that point. I'd personally rather be killed, but I have been molested... and that has left me with years of issues I'm still sorting out. If I'd have been killed... I wouldn't really care. I'd be dead.

If "I'm dead; I don't care" (neutral) is better than life after rape, then the overall value of life of a rape survivor must be negative, or not worth living. Death (setting the value to neutral) would be an improvement.

 

[KRS7]

Murder is worse. I don't even think I should need to explain this.

I don't understand the murder is permanent, and thus worse argument actually.

The victim doesn't care once they're dead. The burden is on the family members/children. Rape will effect them as well AND the victim will have to deal with any lasting trauma for the rest of his/her life.

You don't understand how permanency of a misdeed makes it worse? You must not really have an understanding of time to begin with. If I break your arm severely, you lose the function of that arm temporary. If I saw it off you lose it permanently. You don't see a distinction since you lose functionality in both cases?

And your argument almost makes it seems that murdering people with no friends or family is not a bad thing since there is no burden on anyone living and the victim doesn't care.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

All this topic needs is a simple poll.

Would you rather be :-

A) Raped
B) Murdered

I'm guessing A's kinda going to be more popular.

 

[bigswords]

However, you would never ever Rape someone as revenge.

Why not if i wanted the person unrepairable hurt till the person die I would insert into that person cavities with whatever object I have and he/she will remember REMEMBER!!! MUAHAHAHH the pain the humiliation, the lub, the bicyc.. oops I said too much.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

If "I'm dead; I don't care" (neutral) is better than life after rape, then the overall value of life of a rape survivor must be negative, or not worth living. Death (setting the value to neutral) would be an improvement.

Riiight.

I'd also rather be dead then vote Republican. If it was a choice between dying and voting Republican, I'd rather die.

What does that mean? That I would rather die then vote Republican. I'd rather die then be raped.

But keep tossing out this illogical bullshit man. It's funny that you're trying to turn personal opinion into some kind of universal truth.

 

[Monocle]

Why not if i wanted the person unrepairable hurt till the person die I would insert into that person cavities with whatever object I have and he/she will remember REMEMBER!!! MUAHAHAHH the pain the humiliation, the lub, the bicyc.. oops I said too much.

Rape: wrong, except when you decide it's right.

 

[jorma]

Riiight.

I'd also rather be dead then vote Republican. If it was a choice between dying and voting Republican, I'd rather die.

You are clearly insane. Like batshit crazy insane if this is not just hyperbole.

 

[KRS7]

You are clearly insane. Like batshit crazy insane if this is not just hyperbole.

No he is completely sane here. I really hate anchovies. If it a choice between eating anchovies and dying, I would rather die. Same goes for getting stuck in traffic. That is why I keep a loaded gun in my glove compartment at all times. I will not give up my God given liberty being stuck in traffic. If my car stays stationary for more than 3 minutes, I will pull it out and end my life. There is nothing crazy or irrational about this. They are just personal opinions.

 

[usea]

I'd also rather be dead then vote Republican. If it was a choice between dying and voting Republican, I'd rather die.

What does that mean? That I would rather die then vote Republican. I'd rather die then be raped.

Well if you ever survive a rape, I hope somebody does you a favor and puts you out of your misery.

 

[Dabookerman]

Yeah, it's the other way around for me. I would rather have any of those happen than be dead. During those, at least I would still have my consciousness in existence. I dunno, just trying to comprehend the void really freaks me out.

Hah. See I'm not afraid of death. I would prefer to die after my parents however. For my parents sake of course.

So don't uh, get any ideas. I'm more afraid of pain than death.

 

[Lafiel]

I'm seriously stunned that people actually argue that rape is worse. I'm starting to think that it has to be connected with the "sex is bad, violence is good" attitude we get from US tv.

Well, if you want to bring that up. Rape is definitely a worse, far more unpleasant crime to see portayed on television (or any form of visual media), then murder.

 

[Puddles]

Murder can be justified depending on the circumstances. Rape can never.

Question:

If some girl was completely evil and had done the most fucked up shit imaginable to you, would revege-killing her be worse than revenge-raping her?

 

[jorma]

Well, if you want to bring that up. Rape is definitely a worse, far more unpleasant crime to see portayed on television (or any form of visual media), then murder.

Well mainly because rape will never be depicted in the same casual manner as murder often is.

 

[Dabookerman]

Question:

If some girl was completely evil and had done the most fucked up shit imaginable to you, would revege-killing her be worse than revenge-raping her?

I think it takes a more twisted individual to pop an erection and force yourself onto someone. Especially for revenge.

I think it would be easier to beat or torture even.

 

[Prine]

Murder. Your removed from this world altogether.

Both are heinous acts mind you.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

rape is an uglier crime. Murder has worse consequences.

 

[ColonelColon]

Murder is worse. I don't even think I should need to explain this.



You don't understand how permanency of a misdeed makes it worse? You must not really have an understanding of time to begin with. If I break your arm severely, you lose the function of that arm temporary. If I saw it off you lose it permanently. You don't see a distinction since you lose functionality in both cases?

And your argument almost makes it seems that murdering people with no friends or family is not a bad thing since there is no burden on anyone living and the victim doesn't care.

If you're going to break his arm, then you should have the decency to cut it off. Otherwise, he'll need to deal with the pain of having a broken arm, which is worse than never having an arm for the rest of his life.

 

[yacobod]

Clint put it best in Unforgiven

"It's a hell of a thing, killin' a man, you take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."

no question murder

 

[Walshicus]

That some people can even begin to lower the severity of the crime of murder to be comparable to rape is the worst thing about this thread.

 

[Chuckie]

Murder is worse but somehow rape seems a more 'evil' deed if you see it as revenge.

Its a bit hard to explain but I'll try.

Say your daughter would be raped. Two ways of vengeance

Raping the rapist (with a baseball bat or something)
Killing him.

If you'd let him choose he would say: Ok its gonna hurt.... but I'd rather be raped (people tend to hang on to life)

But from a vengeance-point you could think: If I shoot him... it's over... he's off the hook, I don't believe in afterlife.... nothing.... however if I rape him, I make him suffer and he'll feel degraded for life. He lives, but miserably.

Killing him might be the 'worst' thing I could do to him, but he will never even 'suffer' because of it (unless you do believe in afterlife)

Legally murder is and should be the worse crime ofcourse.