Support NeoGAF

[hatchx]

Seriously, why?

It shouldn't take so long to open up options and messages. How was the GameCube, Wii, PS....hell every system ever had such a faster OS than the most powerful home console currently on the market?


I simply don't understand.

 

[LiK]

no idea but they'll be updating it twice this year to make it faster.

 

[Baconsammy]

I simply don't understand.

Well, it's not because of the hardware. That's the good news. It means it can be fixed.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Seriously, why?

It shouldn't take so long to open up options and messages. How was the GameCube, Wii, PS....hell every system ever had such a faster OS than the most powerful home console currently on the market?


I simply don't understand.

In both the Wii/Gamecube, those OS doesn't actually run in parallel to the system, so it's not a fair comparison. Once a game is launched in either, the main menu stuff disappears.

 

[hatchx]

no idea but they'll be updating it twice this year to make it faster.

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

 

[Nothing1016]

Probably poorly optimized and rushed to the market. Also, Nintendo doesn't really have that much experience when it comes to making a competent OS.

 

[beast786]

the amazing part is the huge OS print memory . You assume it would be lightning fast

 

[Instro]

Because it's bloated as hell taking up 1GB like it does right now. The comparison to the GC and Wii is pointless considering their OS's do not run concurrently with software. The system was probably pushed out the door to make the holidays last year, a lot of things are half baked, and will probably remain that way while they go about fixing stuff over the next however many months.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Nintendo doesn't exactly have the experience of Sony let alone Microsoft at that matter when it comes to building operating systems.

Just comes down to a poorly made and optimized operating system.

 

[cws]

Rushed job since they prioritized other aspects, will be fixed by the next two updates in spring and summer.

 

[urfe]

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

I'm holding off my purchase until it (and a few other things) do happen.

 

[disco]

As there are no titles for it yet - the OS is a 'game' right now, loading is the new 'Triforce Hunt'.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Seriously, why?

It shouldn't take so long to open up options and messages. How was the GameCube, Wii, PS....hell every system ever had such a faster OS than the most powerful home console currently on the market?


I simply don't understand.

Not optimized most likely. I would imagine the future updates will put more stuff into memory to boot from faster. The console was locked into manufacturing months before launch, which means they only got the absolute basics done before hand. That is why the first update was so large. They were adding all the features they were still working on in the months between the locked down OS and launch.

I wish we know more about the ARM that runs the OS though. I dont think anyone has talked about it.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

the amazing part is the huge OS print memory . You assume it would be lightning fast

What you mean the OS print money?

edit: Im sleepy

 

[Clefargle]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=97N2LLaBvE0

It seems Miiverse runs a bit more quickly in this video.

 

[IHaveCandy]

the amazing part is the huge OS print memory . You assume it would be lightning fast

The bloated size it has on memory is a sign for why it is so slow. More memory usage doesn't mean faster. It means they have an OS that is inefficient.

 

[archnemesis]

I've been wondering the same and I really don't get why.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Nintendo are a video game/toy company without much experience in this world. They should have outsourced it to someone more competent.

 

[Madouu]

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

Well considering Iwata himself promised it in a Nintendo Direct and spent quite a bit of time apologizing about it, I think you can be pretty sure the updates will happen in a timely manner.

My guess about the OS being slow is that it was a rush job.

 

[Baconsammy]

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

This is where I'm at as well. I have zero faith in Nintendo at this point when it comes to stuff like this. I hope the OS was a result of being rushed, but come one, they've been designing this console for years and the OS they put out is behind what Microsoft and Sony put out 8 years ago. I just don't get it. They clearly want Miiverse to be the star of the show, but they make it so tedious just to get to it. They make it so it auto-shuts off the console when a download completes. That's good. But they don't let you turn off the gamepads screen. You can turn the gamepad screen off, just not if you want the device to shut off when the download finishes. It makes zero sense.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=97N2LLaBvE0

It seems Miiverse runs a bit more quickly in this video.

Miiverse is quick. The OS as a whole is slow. Going to miiverse then checking which friends are online just takes unnecassarily long. Friend list and Miiverse should be one in the same. Why do I got to go to miiverse to look at my friends profile? #stupid

 

[erawsd]

Clearly, not enough GDDR5.

Seriously, I had thought that was just a consequence of people hammering the service at launch. It's disappointing to hear its a persistent thing.

 

[Ydahs]

A rushed and unoptimized OS, nothing more.

Everything about the launch was rushed.

 

[LiK]

Clearly, not enough GDDR5.

Seriously, I had thought that was just a consequence of people hammering the service at launch. It's disappointing to hear its a persistent thing.

nothing to do with the online. even going into the setup menu is slow as fuck.

 

[cws]

This is where I'm at as well. I have zero faith in Nintendo at this point when it comes to stuff like this. I hope the OS was a result of being rushed, but come one, they've been designing this console for years and the OS they put out is behind what Microsoft and Sony put out 8 years ago. I just don't get it. They clearly want Miiverse to be the star of the show, but they make it so tedious just to get to it. They make it so it auto-shuts off the console when a download completes. That's good. But they don't let you turn off the gamepads screen. You can turn the gamepad screen off, just not if you want the device to shut off when the download finishes. It makes zero sense.

How can you have zero fates in their OS updates when you compare the current 3DS system software with the one at launch? People are being again over dramatic, of course they'll speed up the process it's nothing impossible and they did it on 3DS as well.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

Have you noticed that almost half of the 8GB Basic storage is taken up by the OS? I'd blame it on sheer bloat.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Makes you wonder if Microsoft really is setting the Xbox 720 OS RAM reserve at 3 GB what they are planning to do with it.

Also even if the OS reserves this RAM can't games still dip into it while playing?

 

[pieatorium]

Makes you wonder if Microsoft really is setting the Xbox 720 OS RAM reserve at 3 GB what they are planning to do with it.

OG windows Vista

 

[fallagin]

You can probably blame part of this on the slow as shit ram in the system. It's slower than both the ps3 and 360s ram. The Edram makes up a lot for game performance, but system os does not have that luxury.

 

[Margalis]

Why does my 360 spend 30+ seconds on a spinning icon whenever I start it up?

Because it's bloated as hell taking up 1GB like it does right now.

The OS doesn't take up 1 GB. Lol.

 

[enzo_gt]

Makes you wonder if Microsoft really is setting the Xbox 720 OS RAM reserve at 3 GB what they are planning to do with it.

Also even if the OS reserves this RAM can't games still dip into it while playing?

I think a huge part of that is running multiple games/apps at once and saving their states and being able to switch between them.

 

[Baconsammy]

How can you have zero fates in their OS updates when you compare the current 3DS system software with the one at launch? People are being again over dramatic, of course they'll speed up the process it's nothing impossible and they did it on 3DS as well.

The 3DS is the example you're going to give me of an efficient OS? It takes just as long to get into settings in the 3DS as it does on the Wii U. That's why I have little faith in them. They keep doing it the same way over and over. You can pretend it's about being dramatic all you want. It's actually just wanting them to take advantage of the hardware they chose and the amount of memory they dedicated to the OS, which if they're using all of it, they're not doing it efficiently.

Makes you wonder if Microsoft really is setting the Xbox 720 OS RAM reserve at 3 GB what they are planning to do with it.

Also even if the OS reserves this RAM can't games still dip into it while playing?

Look to the PS4 conference to see what MS will be doing with theirs. And then add in the ability to keep multiple games and apps in stored memory at the same time. Seems like a lot of memory to reserve just for the OS imo. I think Sony is getting away with half a gig unless they changed it. I believe MS is going with 2 gig. No idea what they'd need all that for.

 

[nhlducks35]

Why does my 360 spend 30+ seconds on a spinning icon whenever I start it up?



The OS doesn't take up 1 GB. Lol.

Uh...

 

[Margalis]

Uh...

Great post.

The OS doesn't take up 1 GB of RAM, it reserves 1 GB for the OS as well as apps like the web browser. When the OS is running normally I'm sure it doesn't use 1 GB, because if it did it would be impossible to launch the web browser.

 

[ColdBlooder]

The 3DS is the example you're going to give me of an efficient OS? It takes just as long to get into settings in the 3DS as it does on the Wii U. That's why I have little faith in them. They keep doing it the same way over and over. You can pretend it's about being dramatic all you want. It's actually just wanting them to take advantage of the hardware they chose and the amount of memory they dedicated to the OS, which if they're using all of it, they're not doing it efficiently.

WTF?

3DS - Going to system settings: 5 seconds
Wii U - Going to systems settings : 20 seconds

And yes i just checked.

 

[Ydahs]

Because it's bloated as hell taking up 1GB like it does right now. The comparison to the GC and Wii is pointless considering their OS's do not run concurrently with software. The system was probably pushed out the door to make the holidays last year, a lot of things are half baked, and will probably remain that way while they go about fixing stuff over the next however many months.

If you're talking about RAM it doesn't use 1GB. It has that amount reserved, though it wouldn't be actively using all of the time.

You can probably blame part of this on the slow as shit ram in the system. It's slower than both the ps3 and 360s ram. The Edram makes up a lot for game performance, but system os does not have that luxury.

Nope. Even with simple tasks it's ridiculously slow. It's definitely the OS itself, not the hardware. As mentioned above, it was a similar situation with the 3DS, though to a lesser extent.

The biggest concern here is how much of the OS is patchable.

 

[CLEEK]

Well, it's not because of the hardware. That's the good news. It means it can be fixed.

I have heard that the predominant reason is hardware related. The WiiU has a secondary, low power ARM chip in it, which handles all OS and security tasks. Apparently, Nintendo also make this ARM chip run all the system apps. It just doesn't have the cycles available to produce fast results.

We know the WiiU isn't limited by RAM. It has a whopping 1GB reserved for the OS. But CPU is in very short supply, as it doesn't use the main CPU. So there is little that software or firmware updates can do. It could be the system apps are poorly written and can be optimised, but if the bottleneck is actually the ARM chip, speed and responsiveness will always be an issue. There is no fucking way that just opening up the Setting app should take 30-40 seconds. Something is fundimentally fucked.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I hate to repeat this again but does anyone know if reserve RAM can be used by games?

Would this be more dependent on the way Microsoft designs it or is it something both Sony and Microsoft can do?

 

[ColdBlooder]

I have heard that the predominant reason is hardware related. The WiiU has a secondary, low power ARM chip in it, which handles all OS and security tasks. This includes running all the system apps. It just doesn't have the cycles available to produce fast results.

We know the WiiU isn't limited by RAM. It has a whopping 1GB reserved for the OS. But CPU is in very short supply, as it doesn't use the main CPU. So there is little that software or firmware updates can do. It could be the system apps are poorly written and can be optimised, but if the bottleneck is actually the ARM chip, speed and responsiveness will always be an issue. There is no fucking way that just opening up the Setting app should take 30-40 seconds. Something is fundimentally fucked.

Iwata said in the January direct that the speed will get fixed in the spring AND summer update this year.

 

[abasm]

Nintendo: Never launch prepared.

After a year of updates and new games, the 3DS hit its stride and has been going pretty strong ever since. I'm giving the Wii U time to cook--it clearly needs it.

 

[CLEEK]

Iwata said in the January direct that the speed will get fixed in the spring AND summer update this year.

I hope so. I'm just passing on what I've read on other forums, by folks who know the hardware.

 

[FearMyWrench]

Let Bayonetta show you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsErwrdAua4

In all seriousness, I have faith it will get better through patches. Or at least, it better. It's terrible right now.

 

[diamount]

no idea but they'll be updating it twice this year to make it faster.

Only twice? Should be fucking priority.

 

[ColdBlooder]

I hope so. I'm just passing on what I've read on other forums, by folks who know the hardware.

This could also mean that the spring update is only the precursor to the fix and the spring update won't speed things up and that the summer update is the real speedup though.

Time will tell.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Let Bayonetta show you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsErwrdAua4

In all seriousness, I have faith it will get better through patches. Or at least, it better. It's terrible right now.

Lol... I can boot into Windows in half the time it takes that Wii U to boot.

And I just checked.

9 seconds on 3DSXL
16 seconds on Wii U

Both atrocious. They're settings. It should be instantaneous. Think about it, do you own any other handheld, console, phone, or tablet that takes more than 1 or 2 seconds to bring settings up? As for Iwata saying it will be fixed, he also said there would be an account system. We got one, but it's not the one anyone wanted. They need to do something about the speed it takes to get Miiverse up and running, and how long it takes to load the store (on both the handheld and console).

Does the 3DS use a SSD? If so that's insanely slow, should be instant with such a simple OS.

 

[Baconsammy]

WTF?

3DS - Going to system settings: 5 seconds
Wii U - Going to systems settings : 20 seconds

And yes i just checked.

And I just checked.

9 seconds on 3DSXL
16 seconds on Wii U

Both atrocious. They're settings. It should be instantaneous. Think about it, do you own any other handheld, console, phone, or tablet that takes more than 1 or 2 seconds to bring settings up? As for Iwata saying it will be fixed, he also said there would be an account system. We got one, but it's not the one anyone wanted. They need to do something about the speed it takes to get Miiverse up and running, and how long it takes to load the store (on both the handheld and console).

I have heard that the predominant reason is hardware related. The WiiU has a secondary, low power ARM chip in it, which handles all OS and security tasks. Apparently, Nintendo also make this ARM chip run all the system apps. It just doesn't have the cycles available to produce fast results.

We know the WiiU isn't limited by RAM. It has a whopping 1GB reserved for the OS. But CPU is in very short supply, as it doesn't use the main CPU. So there is little that software or firmware updates can do. It could be the system apps are poorly written and can be optimised, but if the bottleneck is actually the ARM chip, speed and responsiveness will always be an issue. There is no fucking way that just opening up the Setting app should take 30-40 seconds. Something is fundimentally fucked.

Thanks for that. Didn't know that their internals might be causing a lot of the problem. Bad sign if you're right. Is it true that the gig reserved for the OS is freed up and made available to the game once it starts?

One other thing I wish they'd change is the disc spinning when there's no need to spin it. If I'm in Miiverse or playing a demo off the drive, stop spinning the disc.

 

[AzaK]

Could be numerous possibilities.

Slow Flash - we're buggered if this is the case.
Debugging code or logging to help debug issues in the wild
Compressed apps that need decompression
Terrible filesystem that doesn't load in blocks
Their loader reads a byte at a time

 

[cws]

The 3DS is the example you're going to give me of an efficient OS? It takes just as long to get into settings in the 3DS as it does on the Wii U. That's why I have little faith in them. They keep doing it the same way over and over. You can pretend it's about being dramatic all you want. It's actually just wanting them to take advantage of the hardware they chose and the amount of memory they dedicated to the OS, which if they're using all of it, they're not doing it efficiently.

Im using the 3DS as reference because the OS in it now also run faster and smoother than it did on launch units. Software updates for WiiU are already promised to enhance the overall system speed. I don't see why Nintendo and Iwata would lie about it.

 

[JoeM86]

See, people complain about this, but I have longer OS times on my Xbox 360 over my Wii U, especially booting up

 

[Margalis]

Both atrocious. They're settings. It should be instantaneous. Think about it, do you own any other handheld, console, phone, or tablet that takes more than 1 or 2 seconds to bring settings up?

Again, my 360 takes 30 seconds just to load the main screen. On the most recent CAG-cast CheapyD said it took his a full minute. (Although hopefully that's a bit of hyperbole)

Edit: From power on the time it takes me to get to my list of games on 360 is probably 45 seconds plus.