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[CLEEK]

I hate to repeat this again but does anyone know if reserve RAM can be used by games?

By definition, reserved RAM (or CPU cores, or anything else) is not available to devs. The system just won't present the RAM. As far as devs are concerned, the WiiU has 1GB of RAM.

Likewise, if the MS rumours are true, devs will see 5GB RAM and a six core CPU on the next Xbox.

 

[nhlducks35]

See, people complain about this, but I have longer OS times on my Xbox 360 over my Wii U, especially booting up

Again, my 360 takes 30 seconds just to load the main screen. On the most recent CAG-cast CheapyD said it took his a full minute. (Although hopefully that's a bit of hyperbole)

The 360 came out 7 years ago, and the Wii U came out last year. You would hope that the Wii U would be a fair bit faster.

 

[Baconsammy]

Again, my 360 takes 30 seconds just to load the main screen. On the most recent CAG-cast CheapyD said it took his a full minute. (Although hopefully that's a bit of hyperbole)

Edit: From power on the time it takes me to get to my list of games on 360 is probably 45 seconds plus.

Why are you talking about the initial load? I'm talking about settings. For me the 360 is about 30 seconds from power on to main menu. Sucks, but probably understandable for an 8 year old box. PS3 starts in roughly the same amount of time. Ditto the Wii U. We're talking about the speeds of doing things once the OS is running.

 

[Persona7]

See, people complain about this, but I have longer OS times on my Xbox 360 over my Wii U, especially booting up

The xbox 360 came out in 2005.

 

[zoukka]

It's one of the biggest disappointments about Wii U for me. I just can't accept a slow OS in this day and age.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Again, my 360 takes 30 seconds just to load the main screen. On the most recent CAG-cast CheapyD said it took his a full minute. (Although hopefully that's a bit of hyperbole)

Edit: From power on the time it takes me to get to my list of games on 360 is probably 45 seconds plus.

Yeah 360 boot is actually SLOWER than Wii U. Thats pretty lame.

 

[Baconsammy]

By definition, reserved RAM (or CPU cores, or anything else) is not available to devs. The system just won't present the RAM. As far as devs are concerned, the WiiU has 1GB of RAM.

Likewise, if the MS rumours are true, devs will see 5GB RAM and a six core CPU on the next Xbox.

This comes from a Nintendo fanboy site, so take it with a grain of salt

When a game is running, the OS is off and does not require any system memory. This means that games software can utilize 100% of the RAM, unlike other consoles which usually reserve 5-10% of the RAM for the OS at all times.

 

[FordGTGuy]

By definition, reserved RAM (or CPU cores, or anything else) is not available to devs. The system just won't present the RAM. As far as devs are concerned, the WiiU has 1GB of RAM.

Likewise, if the MS rumours are true, devs will see 5GB RAM and a six core CPU on the next Xbox.

Thanks for the answer SPE, well that would suck if it's really that high reserved.

Yeah 360 boot is actually SLOWER than Wii U. Thats pretty lame.

You can't compare the Xbox 360 to Wii U on load times, the Xbox 360 is completely held back by it's hardware.

 

[Margalis]

Why are you talking about the initial load? I'm talking about settings.

I have to go through the initial load every time I power on.

I have to go to settings basically never. The Wii U is much faster at getting me to my list of games. I've used Wii U settings twice ever I think.

Loading the list of games is part of the OS and probably the most important part. I guess since it's slow on 360 it doesn't count?

 

[hongcha]

Yeah 360 boot is actually SLOWER than Wii U. Thats pretty lame.

Every other load while in the OS is faster on the x360 though. That's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Margalis]

The 360 came out 7 years ago, and the Wii U came out last year. You would hope that the Wii U would be a fair bit faster.

It's 3x as fast.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Why are you talking about the initial load? I'm talking about settings. For me the 360 is about 30 seconds from power on to main menu. Sucks, but probably understandable for an 8 year old box. PS3 starts in roughly the same amount of time. Ditto the Wii U. We're talking about the speeds of doing things once the OS is running.

Because initial load times are a very valid complain aswell and its been like that since 2005.

Wii Us load times are bad - yes. Fix incoming as announced.

Don't get hung up on something only Wii U is slow at. But knowing you're post history in Nintendo threads...

 

[FordGTGuy]

Because initial load times are a very valid complain aswell and its been like that since 2005.

Wii Us load times are bad - yes. Fix incoming as announced.

Don't get hung up on something only Wii U is slow at. But knowing you're post history in Nintendo threads...

Xbox 360 today does a lot more on the dashboard than it did when it launched.

 

[CLEEK]

This comes from a Nintendo fanboy site, so take it with a grain of salt

I can't see that is true. When you go into the Home menu while a game is running, you can open all the system apps (Friends, Miiverse, browser etc) and they're persistent in memory.

If the OS did magically free up its reserved RAM, you wouldn't be able to use those apps, let alone have persistent web browser or Miiverse open. That's just not how memory or OSes work.

 

[hongcha]

The intial load on my x360 varies. Sometimes it's 5-10 seconds, other times it's 30 or so. I have no idea why.

 

[Baconsammy]

I have to go through the initial load every time I power on.

I have to go to settings basically never. The Wii U is much faster at getting me to my list of games. I've used Wii U settings twice ever I think.

Loading the list of games is part of the OS and probably the most important part. I guess since it's slow on 360 it doesn't count?

Took me 25 seconds to get to my game list on Wii U. Took me 33 on 360. Took me 27 on PS3. Pretty good for 8 year old consoles working off of a fraction of the ram Wii U has allocated to the OS. Now how about the social portion of the console. Friend lists are instantaneous on 360/PS3. Miiverse requires a huge load. Probably fair to compare that to HOME on PS3, which also has a long load, but again also is running in smaller amounts of memory. Now the stores. 360 is instantaneous. Click the store and it opens to content immediately. Wii U takes me about 30-35 seconds just to get to content. PS3 isn't far behind.

I can't see that is true. When you go into the Home menu while a game is running, you can open all the system apps (Friends, Miiverse, browser etc) and they're persistent in memory.

If the OS did magically free up its reserved RAM, you wouldn't be able to use those apps, let alone have persistent web browser or Miiverse open. That's just not how memory or OSes work.

Yeah, it feels like bullshit given what you mentioned needs to be running in the background.

\But knowing you're post history in Nintendo threads...

Yeah yeah, I get it, I have a vendetta against Nintendo. Blah blah blah. They're consoles. Not children. They can take a little criticism.

 

[marc^o^]

Every other load while in the OS is faster on the x360 though. That's pretty ridiculous.

To me the most important load is access to the browser. It needs to be faster, so I'm glad they are working on two updates in the next few months.

And BTW I want it to be faster because it's so good & convenient I use it on a daily basis, while I also have an iPhone, iPad, a PC and a mac.

 

[Margalis]

The intial load on my x360 varies. Sometimes it's 5-10 seconds, other times it's 30 or so. I have no idea why.

If I am using significant bandwidth on my PC while trying to use my 360 everything is incredibly slow. The initial load screen, all sub screens, etc. Even just going to my game library and watching the individual box arts load takes forever.

I assume that the 360 tries to dial home if you are connected and just sits there spinning until it gets the data it expects. The same might be true of Wii U as well.

Ideally they would load what they can and at least present some UI while waiting for individual images and such, but apparently they don't.

 

[Coolwhip]

Looking forward to the fix, since its my biggest issue with the console atm.

 

[Jackano]

I'm fully on OP's side and wanted to do this thread myself many times. It's frakking unacceptable.
The user experience is awfull, and it's the same since the Wii. Miiverse is good, but it can be incredibly good if all the OS was faster, I mean, was running on a normal speed instead of anormally slow.
And I disagree with what cw_sasuke said on the first page, even now, the 3DS OS is still too slow!

Of course it's because bad OS programming, but it shouldn't be so hard, especially since people are complaining about that with the Wii, and the 3DS years ago.
They have offices in Redmond, they should have hire some of the thousands of people around here who can help them on this, years ago.

Another thing who piss me off:
All the previous things we had, with the Wii for example, are gone. New system and you get a blank page!
Nice little things like the Nintendo, the news and the weather channels are gone. Why? In the 3 or 4 years Nintendo spent to design the Wii U no one had the time to port and enhance those?

Oh, and finally, you know what? I'm waiting for the threads and Miiverse whining about the lack of directories, in a couple of months. I understand the dashboard can expand, but I would like a way of putting all the demos in a Démos dir, all the NES VC games in a NES dir, etc... And it's always the same, it took 2 or 3 years to play VC games from the SD Card on Wii, it too one year to have directories on 3DS... All over again, I'm really mad on those topics!

 

[gingerbeardman]

Miiverse runs in a browser, which j guess is why it has to load. If they could keep the browser resident in memory that would speed things up.

The extra ARM chip makes sense, as the browser code can then be very similar to the one running on mobile devices.

If an iPhone can launch a browser in a few seconds then the Wii U should be able to. But I doubt Nintendo has the experience with IS and apps to make that happen.

 

[Sanic]

Why do people keep saying the OS is bloated? It's not. The web browser is included in that figure, which I imagine can balloon up to half of that 1GB available.

The memory footprint is not a sign of inneffeciency. It's a function of what they're doing with the OS now, and what they'll be doing with it in the future. PS4/Nextbox are the same, but they obviously have a greater total amount of memory to work with.

 

[MDX]

Because it's bloated as hell taking up 1GB like it does right now.

What? Where is it confirmed that the os takes up 1GB?
There is 1GB available for the OS.
Doesn't mean it currently that big.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

Remember how shitty the PS3's firmware situation was? And the god afwful PSN store. No background downloading, in game notifications....did they even launch with voice chat? In time they'll fix it.

The reason is because launches suck. Always have, always will. PS4 and Xbox 3 will be no different. Whether it's shitty firmware, crappy hardware, no games, or something else. It's the main reason I will not go day 1 this gen. I don't feel like being their beta testers.

 

[grimshawish]

My feeling is its how it does and attempts to interact with Nintendo's own servers.
Its constantly reconnecting and setting things up.

Its a software issue rather than any hardware issue (hardware side makes zero sense to be to blame); and just a bad way it works.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Ushojax]

All new consoles will launch with a sluggish, half baked OS. That's just what happens now.

 

[Sendou]

Well considering Iwata himself promised it in a Nintendo Direct and spent quite a bit of time apologizing about it, I think you can be pretty sure the updates will happen in a timely manner.

My guess about the OS being slow is that it was a rush job.

Yeah. They were clearly in hurry to get Wii U to market which shows both in immature software and lack of games. No doubt the two updates will help this problem.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Poor coded OS?

 

[QaaQer]

Well, it's not because of the hardware. That's the good news. It means it can be fixed.

how do you know this. if the os is run from an arm core that people no nothing about, it could very well be an issue with the hardware being not up to the task.


edit, answered already.

 

[Hoo-doo]

This magical "fix" that makes the entire thing snappy and responsive is probably never actually going to show up unless they rewrite the entire OS.

 

[DeuceGamer]

The OS definitely needs some work. Not only is it slow but there are various other issues such as people having problems with the Network disconnecting randomly, the hardlocks (which are rare for me actually), lack of features (FOLDERS!!!), slow download speeds for some, etc...

Hopefully these are fixed with the upcoming updates that were announced. The thing is, most of these should never have been a problem such as no folders, hardlocks, disconnects, etc...

This magical "fix" that makes the entire thing snappy and responsive is probably never actually going to show up unless they rewrite the entire OS.

I'm sure there are things they can do to make it faster. It's probably never going to be amazing, but there's no reason it couldn't become acceptable. Now whether that happens, who knows...

 

[javac]

This magical "fix" that makes the entire thing snappy and responsive is probably never actually going to show up unless they rewrite the entire OS.

Or optimize it, you know...the same every os gets optimized and updated and service packs in order to make it faster and more reliable. iOS, android, windows, Xbox 360 dashboard etc all went and still go through the same motions.

 

[electroshockwave]

Remember how shitty the PS3's firmware situation was? And the god afwful PSN store. No background downloading, in game notifications....did they even launch with voice chat? In time they'll fix it.

The reason is because launches suck. Always have, always will. PS4 and Xbox 3 will be no different. Whether it's shitty firmware, crappy hardware, no games, or something else. It's the main reason I will not go day 1 this gen. I don't feel like being their beta testers.

Sure, launches suck but when the PS3 came out no-one tried to deflect complaints about the OS by saying "bu-bu-buut the original xbox couldn't do that either!" The Wii U is supposedly a generation ahead of the PS360 so why do people think it's a good defence to point at what they were were like 6-7 years ago? And as barebones as the PS3 was back then at least the XMB worked smoothly.

 

[thehypocrite]

Slow Ram, no HDD, poor optimization, lack of experience working with somewhat complex OS.

 

[The Mana Legend]

It doesn't bother me all that much because once you're in the app, it's fast and responsive. I greatly prefer having a longer initial load than it taking forever to load while I'm actually in the app. Like syncing trophies taking forever, then once you're in the trophy list, it still takes forever to load. Or randomly on Xbox when things just do not want to load at all.

 

[Revolutionary]

So there's updates coming out to fix this? That's good news... but I expect them to arrive later than promised. After all, I'm still waiting for my DVR update for TVii (which was slated for January).

 

[Projectjustice]

Sammy stop reaching so hard. You are going to pull your back out.

 

[the androgyne]

My feeling is its how it does and attempts to interact with Nintendo's own servers.
Its constantly reconnecting and setting things up.

Its a software issue rather than any hardware issue (hardware side makes zero sense to be to blame); and just a bad way it works.

Just my thoughts.

This is what i think as well. It was the same on Wii, i remember thinking to myself that WiiConnect24 actually meant it connects (or tries to) 24 times in the average session instead of actually being on all the time.

There's other stuff as well that that is just bound to be poor programming. That a freaking iPod can download and install (seemingly as a single step rather than a bunch of prompts and steps) a massive game faster than a Wii U is a god damn joke. And it lets you do basically anything at the same time, compared to Wii U, where you may as well go out for lunch while it installs.

 

[ThaGuy]

It is annoying but hopefully they add more features as well as speeding up the os. I wouldnt say this is a big deal breaker for me though but I can understand the frustrations.

 

[JaseMath]

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

Same. Promises, promises...

 

[Beermeister]

Rushed console.

 

[gamergirly]

Um.....I understand the complaining but Nintendo is already aware of the issue and said 2 major Wii U updates were coming this year. One sometime in the next 2 months and another later this Fall to correct these and other issues.

 

[Waaghals]

I have no personal experience with the Wii U, but if it is as slow as they say, then that is inexcusable.

Sony were far behind with the OS for their console as well, but that was 7 years ago.
Nintendo has had all those years watching their competitors getting to grips with advanced console OS' and still they messed up.

 

[CTLance]

Personally, I think Nintendo rushed the hell out of the launch. A a result, nonessential software suffered greatly. The comparatively poor quality of the launch ports and some dev comments lead me to suspect the API/tool work was just as rushed.

Plus, they are not in the business of making operating systems. (ES doesn't count, even if it was neat.)

 

[SturokBGD]

There's some part of me that thinks Nintendo did it deliberately because... Nintendo.

It makes no sense that it's so awful.

 

[prag16]

There's a high chance it has something to do with security. This is why BlackBerry phones used to take several minutes to boot... numerous security checks all over the place.

Blame the hackers! Though I'm sure optimization has room for improvement as well.

 

[tkscz]

I just have so little faith of this actually happening...

Iwata announced it in a Nintendo Direct, so they ARE working to do it. Just don't know when.

 

[dreamer3kx]

I must be the only one who doesnt mind, doesnt seem that slow to me.

 

[lucius]

My 360s initial load to main menu is about 33 seconds, the main ad in that page the lasts another 5-7 secs. But getting to settings is instant WiiU has no excuse for that.

 

[teh_pwn]

Nintendo has no experience with OS design.

Microsoft obviously has massive amounts of experience.

Sony uses Linux I believe, which when customized and stable with drivers is a very fast OS.